2016 LG C6-B6 owners thread - Page 571 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17101 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Well, that's subjective. For SDR, obviously good black levels are the most important, but the thing that sets HDR apart from SDR is the ability to have highlights that go much brighter than SDR, and LEDs are better at that for now (and may stay that way unless we get ABL sorted out)

For me, it's not the contrast between black and white that is most important for HDR, but the contrast between the median brightness of the scene, and the brightest highlights. So OLEDs have better picture quality, but good LEDs have better HDR imo.

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I just finished watching Allied.
And it was A LOT bright, even for a dark movie.
And the movie was incredible!!! The PQ was really perfect... so I just cannot agree that Oled TVs doesnt get bright enough, at least it is not something really important compared to true blacks and infinite contrast.
Say whatever you want, but I definitely enjoy HDR a lot more on my Oled TV.
I prefer perfect quality but a little dimmer, even though it is really bright enough for me... are you guys looking to get blind or something? haha
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post #17102 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by astateofmind View Post
well, quention is: how come that application is installed?


If it's new, then someone likely played with it. Installed or subscribed?


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post #17103 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Clement Afficial View Post
I just finished watching Allied.
And it was A LOT bright, even for a dark movie.
And the movie was incredible!!! The PQ was really perfect... so I just cannot agree that Oled TVs doesnt get bright enough, at least it is not something really important compared to true blacks and infinite contrast.
Say whatever you want, but I definitely enjoy HDR a lot more on my Oled TV.
I prefer perfect quality but a little dimmer, even though it is really bright enough for me... are you guys looking to get blind or something? haha
It's more about missing the potential of HDR. Iron Fist for example has some fantastic looking scenes where the characters are indoors with bright windows directly behind them. On an OLED you won't be able to experience those scenes the way they were designed to be seen as those highlights will be dimmed significantly by ABL, whereas on LED they can be displayed properly.

Even with 10k nit highlights in the future, it's not going to hurt your eyes. You see much brighter in the real world. It's not about overall brightness. It's about more realistic expansion of highlights. OLED unfortunately limits the potential of that. It's still a fantastic picture of course, but limited in terms of HDR.

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post #17104 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:31 PM
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I will say however that OLED can have better HDR in night time exterior shots, depending on the scene. Basically any time where the highlights are small and bright, but the scene is mostly dark is where OLED will look much better than LED in terms of HDR presentation.

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post #17105 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
If it's new, then someone likely played with it. Installed or subscribed?


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that's the problem: there is no hbo go app to be installed ... try to install it and let me know if you succeed
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post #17106 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Dont professional calibrators work in the screens hidden menu changing settings not available to the user with sets remote control ?
At one time, they had to enter the service menu to access some of these setting that now appear in the user menu.

With that said, there is a setting or two that many of us have changed in the service menu that don't appear in the user menu to improve performance. These deal with black crush and anti static brightness limiter ASBL.
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post #17107 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sechev00 View Post
You keep dynamic contrast on when gaming in HDR? If so, what setting do you find to be good enough? I noticed Horizon 3 seems a bit dim on HDR Game mode compared to the other HDR modes.


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I have to do medium or high at least. I turn the horizon hdr brightness to max too. It's still not great. I think some games do it better than others. Uncharted 4 was pretty bad too. Haven't tried ff15 yet.


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post #17108 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mikek View Post
I started using Simplink with my Sony receiver and LG B6 because there is no code that works with the Sony receiver and the Magic Remote.

It works OK, but a weird problem has cropped up. The TV keeps reverting to internal speaker audio when I turn on the TV.

I figured it out that it happens when I turn off the TV and my DirecTV receiver. My workaround right now is to never shut off the DirecTV receiver. If I never shut off the DirecTV receiver then the audio stays on Optical/HDMI.

Does any one else have a better fix?

EDIT: The problem is actually weirder than I thought. The TV reverts back to internal speakers if I turn off the TV with a universal remote. If I use the Magic remote to turn off the TV then the audio stays to Optical/HDMI.

Very strange.
I figured out the problem.

The universal remote was sending the OFF command to the Sony receiver. I had to let the TV shut the Sony receiver off. So long as I let the TV send the OFF command to the receiver then the sounds works as expected. I just had to adjust the universal remote to not send the OFF command to the Sony receiver.
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post #17109 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Warder45 View Post
Would professional calibration help with the dim HDR Game Mode?


No. Not really. Other than setting the color temp to most correct with dynamic contrast on. So you can set D.C. First and he can set the color temp
Off that as close as possible.


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post #17110 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:55 PM
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Holy crap the Hot Wheels DLC for Forza looks amazing on the B6! Seriously in love with this game and TV.


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post #17111 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
It's more about missing the potential of HDR. Iron Fist for example has some fantastic looking scenes where the characters are indoors with bright windows directly behind them. On an OLED you won't be able to experience those scenes the way they were designed to be seen as those highlights will be dimmed significantly by ABL, whereas on LED they can be displayed properly.

Even with 10k nit highlights in the future, it's not going to hurt your eyes. You see much brighter in the real world. It's not about overall brightness. It's about more realistic expansion of highlights. OLED unfortunately limits the potential of that. It's still a fantastic picture of course, but limited in terms of HDR.

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Man I just can't agree with you because for me when I watch some content on my Oled it get so bright that I cannot even properly see the full image
So I cant imagine how it would look brighter, well, I have seen... but nothing amazing
To me it is like all artificial, if you really want images so bright, then just go to the beach and watch the sun lol
No but seriously, I agree that more nits is better... but I dont agree that it is more important than true blacks, infinite contrast, amazing picture... just no, no and no
I am honestly spoiled.. now when I watch an LCD, I can see all the flaws... QLED or KS series, or SONY...whatever, they all in the same bag now (their LCD TVs, not the A1E)
For me LCD look like a fake picture... I mean when I am in the dark and watching a movie on an LCD, I don't feel amazed at all, for me it is the same old sh*t
But when I am watching a movie on an OLED, especially in the dark.. I can truly enjoy the amazing picture, and with perfect blacks, I feel like I am getting immersed in movies.. yeah Oled have few flaws, but it is way too easy to overlook them, because you are stunned by the amazing picture.. you get like the real life looking like picture.. but with LCD you get the fake life, or rather flawed life with glitches looking like picture...
So no, for me higher nits doesn't justify going back to crap LCD...
A lot of people say this, but it is true... Once you go Oled you can never go back to anything inferior like LCD!
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post #17112 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 07:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KungFuEnglish View Post
It definitely is. It's darker than hdr standard too. I dunno why. Dynamic contrast helps. Not sure if it's due to the tv or due to games not knowing how to program to handle it correctly.


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My guess is: preventing burn-in

Game mean lot of static image. Combine that with ultra bright OLED value and you're in for a catastrophe.

More a more user and pictures prove that burn in is really a thing on OLED. LG know that.
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post #17113 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mikek View Post
yes


Hmm having trouble figuring it out.

Have an onkyo tx sr508

The inputs that go direct to tv work over optical no problem

But my switch going to avr then avr to the arc port, even when the switch is displayed on the tv if I hit the optical input no sound. I have to select the switch hdmi input.

Do I need to set the optical to a specific label?

Also when I change tv inputs the avr keeps changing to "tv/cd" which is the arc input and not the optical input.


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post #17114 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
It's more about missing the potential of HDR. Iron Fist for example has some fantastic looking scenes where the characters are indoors with bright windows directly behind them. On an OLED you won't be able to experience those scenes the way they were designed to be seen as those highlights will be dimmed significantly by ABL, whereas on LED they can be displayed properly.

Even with 10k nit highlights in the future, it's not going to hurt your eyes. You see much brighter in the real world. It's not about overall brightness. It's about more realistic expansion of highlights. OLED unfortunately limits the potential of that. It's still a fantastic picture of course, but limited in terms of HDR.

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By the way I see that you are an LCD owner.
If you love your TV, thats good for you.
But if you have in mind that talking to us Lg Oled owners will make you feel better about your LCD purchase, then you are really really far from the truth.
I have been down this road... I wanted to get an LCD because it was cheaper, and I was thinking oh it is like the same quality.
But more than hundred of times it was proved wrong... At a point I understood that I just wanted to tell myself LCD will be enough which isnt true....so I stepped up ,got myself an Oled, and I am so glad I did!!!!!!!
It is the best picture I ever seen BY FAR... especially when you touch some settings, and put it in a dark room.

Let's go OLED and never go back LCD!
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post #17115 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 07:14 PM
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Sory

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post #17116 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Clement Afficial View Post
No but seriously, I agree that more nits is better... but I dont agree that it is more important than true blacks, infinite contrast, amazing picture... just no, no and no
I didn't say it was. I said in terms of good HDR it's what's more important. To you, better picture quality may be more important than better HDR.

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Originally Posted by Clement Afficial View Post
I am honestly spoiled.. now when I watch an LCD, I can see all the flaws... QLED or KS series, or SONY...whatever, they all in the same bag now (their LCD TVs, not the A1E)
For me LCD look like a fake picture... I mean when I am in the dark and watching a movie on an LCD, I don't feel amazed at all, for me it is the same old sh*t
But when I am watching a movie on an OLED, especially in the dark.. I can truly enjoy the amazing picture, and with perfect blacks, I feel like I am getting immersed in movies.. yeah Oled have few flaws, but it is way too easy to overlook them, because you are stunned by the amazing picture.. you get like the real life looking like picture.. but with LCD you get the fake life, or rather flawed life with glitches looking like picture...
So no, for me higher nits doesn't justify going back to crap LCD...
A lot of people say this, but it is true... Once you go Oled you can never go back to anything inferior like LCD!
I have a plasma right now (still waiting to buy my OLED), which is nearly as good as OLED in terms of black levels, so I know what you mean. I can easily tell the difference, but my 930d still gets nearly perfect blacks with SDR content in most situations when calibrated properly including good local dimming. In HDR obviously raised blacks are more noticeable as the backlight increases to display those bright highlights, so the negatives of the tech are definitely noticeable there, but in terms of delivering what I want from HDR, the LED set does a fantastic job. 1000 nit highlights really is something to be in awe of, just like perfect blacks are. It's just a matter of pros and cons. Both techs have positives and negatives. With OLED you get perfect blacks and better color, but you're limited in how bright the highlights can go, especially when those highlights take up a larger portion of the screen, so HDR is limited. On LED while blacks can get really dark, they're still not perfect, but you are able to get much brighter highlights, which really shows off what HDR has to offer.

OLED can do better HDR in really dark scenes with small bright highlights, such as exterior night shots although they're still limited in terms of peak brightness, so you're not going to get 1000-2000 nit neon signs in the background or anything, but it will still look pretty good.

LED can do better HDR in scenes that have larger highlights, and a higher overall median brightness to the scene, such as daytime shots, such as the bridge fight in deadpool, some interior shots such as the ones from Iron Fist I mentioned above, where bright outdoor light shines in, or night shots where the highlights are larger on screen, such as scenes with a large bright fire, or something like times square or the las vegas strip where there is a lot of bright lighting everywhere.

But ultimately, it's about what's more important to you. For a lot of people here I would assume good PQ is more important at the expense of what could have been better HDR. However, it is important to recognize what you may be missing out on. HDR was designed for highlights in the 1000-10,000 nit range, and OLEDs just can't do that yet. Those bright highlights are, by definition, what that extended dynamic range is all about, so you are missing out despite getting better PQ because of it.

But if ABL was done away with, OLEDs would have every advantage.

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post #17117 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clement Afficial View Post
By the way I see that you are an LCD owner.
If you love your TV, thats good for you.
But if you have in mind that talking to us Lg Oled owners will make you feel better about your LCD purchase, then you are really really far from the truth.
I have been down this road... I wanted to get an LCD because it was cheaper, and I was thinking oh it is like the same quality.
But more than hundred of times it was proved wrong... At a point I understood that I just wanted to tell myself LCD will be enough which isnt true....so I stepped up ,got myself an Oled, and I am so glad I did!!!!!!!
It is the best picture I ever seen BY FAR... especially when you touch some settings, and put it in a dark room.
I'm buying the C6 soon (in about a week), that's why I'm here. I just am able to see the pros and cons of both technologies.
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post #17118 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by IntotheBlue View Post
Would you mind graphing the intermediary steps as well? 85, 90, 95.
Here are remeasured OLED light 80, 85, 90, 95 and 100 HDR STANDARD luminance graphs for 55B6V with data at CONTRAST 100.
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post #17119 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:29 PM
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The most overrated complaints in regard to the 2016 line of LG's OLED panels: crushed blacks, ABL, and motion issues.

I don't even notice ABL. Perhaps that's because I have my panel in a controlled environment. However, let me state that if you're buying a panel that costs this much, and you're using it to view content primarily in brightly lit rooms, you're doing this wrong. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to find any purist or cinephile to admit that any TV looks good in a brightly lit room. No matter how many apologists you'll find for LCD tech.

Also, the comment made in regard to Iron Fist couldn't be any more inaccurate. That's downright slanderous considering LG's OLEDs are a small handful of sets that feature Dolby Vision. Regardless of nits and ABL, DV's HDR more than makes up for that with the metadata used for scene-by-scene or even frame-by-frame detail. Not to mention the better tone-mapping compared to HDR10.

Also, INB4 "but HDR10+ is coming, so it will have metadata, too!"--And? What's your point? It's still not going to be as good as Dolby Vision. It's still limited to 1,000-nit peak brightness (which actually renders your argument invalid in regard to taking advantage of better highlights, btw)--and it's still not used as the industry standard. Ben Affleck uses Dolby Vision. Zack Snyder uses Dolby Vision. Virtually every major filmmaker and studio uses Dolby Vision as the industry standard. Not to mention for consumer sets it can hit up to 4,000-nits peak brightness.

Factor in the "true blacks" and infinite contrast ratio that these panels can hit, it virtually renders any "peak brightness" argument invalid--especially when compared to LCD panels.

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post #17120 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:29 PM
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Check this out.......Yours looks like the Angle view Color difference example.
Thank you, I'll try to get it replaced!
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post #17121 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:35 PM
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Here are remeasured OLED light 80, 85, 90, 95 and 100 HDR STANDARD luminance graphs for 55B6V with data at CONTRAST 100.


I don't expect you to re do it if you haven't done it already, but have you looked to see if dynamic contrast adds nits? Or if hdr bright/cooler color temps add nits? Just curious what the uncalibrated/improper settings galore max nit potential of these tv's really is. I've seen mentions of ~800 on twitter with unknown settings in small highlights.


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post #17122 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by northrob View Post
Here are remeasured OLED light 80, 85, 90, 95 and 100 HDR STANDARD luminance graphs for 55B6V with data at CONTRAST 100.
Can you explain what I'm looking at here? I'm very interested in this but I'm not quite sure what the graph is showing.

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post #17123 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:41 PM
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Here are remeasured OLED light 80, 85, 90, 95 and 100 HDR STANDARD luminance graphs for 55B6V with data at CONTRAST 100.
That's awesome, thanks so much. I tried OLED 80 and much preferred it at 100, but it's nice to see the gradual improvement as you lower the OLED light so it gives me something to tinker with.
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post #17124 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:44 PM
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anyone know why my b6 wont auto detect the 04.31.20 update? i have to do it manually from usb
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post #17125 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:49 PM
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Can you explain what I'm looking at here? I'm very interested in this but I'm not quite sure what the graph is showing.
RGB and luminance tracking for the EOTF gamma curve used in HDR.



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post #17126 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TetraVaal View Post
The most overrated complaints in regard to the 2016 line of LG's OLED panels: crushed blacks, ABL, and motion issues.

I don't even notice ABL. Perhaps that's because I have my panel in a controlled environment. However, let me state that if you're buying a panel that costs this much, and you're using it to view content primarily in brightly lit rooms, you're doing this wrong. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to find any purist or cinephile to admit that any TV looks good in a brightly lit room. No matter how many apologists you'll find for LCD tech.

Also, the comment made in regard to Iron Fist couldn't be any more inaccurate. That's downright slanderous considering LG's OLEDs are a small handful of sets that feature Dolby Vision. Regardless of nits and ABL, DV's HDR more than makes up for that with the metadata used for scene-by-scene or even frame-by-frame detail. Not to mention the better tone-mapping compared to HDR10.

Also, INB4 "but HDR10+ is coming, so it will have metadata, too!"--And? What's your point? It's still not going to be as good as Dolby Vision. It's still limited to 1,000-nit peak brightness (which actually renders your argument invalid in regard to taking advantage of better highlights, btw)--and it's still not used as the industry standard. Ben Affleck uses Dolby Vision. Zack Snyder uses Dolby Vision. Virtually every major filmmaker and studio uses Dolby Vision as the industry standard. Not to mention for consumer sets it can hit up to 4,000-nits peak brightness.

Factor in the "true blacks" and infinite contrast ratio that these panels can hit, it virtually renders any "peak brightness" argument invalid--especially when compared to LCD panels.
HDR10 isn't limited to 1000 nits. It can go to 10,000 nits as evidenced by the upcoming GT Sport on PS4, and plenty of existing movies are HDR10 mastered at 4000 nits. And all HDR10 has metadata, it's literally the only way HDR works. Not dynamic, but HDR10 metadata essentially tells the player what the max nits are for the movie, instead of for the scene. The actual nit mapping should be the same between the two technologies. 100 nits should map to 100 nits, 500 nits should map to 500 nits, etc. Also, peak brightness has nothing to do with black level or the lighting or lack thereof in your room. I watch my LED in pure darkness.

Also, what was wrong with what I said about Iron Fist?

ABL is a real problem though. While highlights that take up 2% of the screen might get you 650 nits, which, while still not quite hitting that proper minimum HDR level of 1000 nits, are still decent, highlights that take up half the screen drop down to about 200nits. That's a serious problem for daytime scenes like the ones in Iron Fist and even worse for exterior daytime scenes like the bridge fight in Deadpool like I mentioned above. While DV may have better mapping of nits to the display (there's zero reason the same technology couldn't be applied to HDR10 content, as nits are nits), it still doesn't make up for the fact that the contrast between the median brightness of the scene and the brightest highlights are severely reduced due to ABL.

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post #17127 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
RGB and luminance tracking for the EOTF gamma curve used in HDR.



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Sorry, I wish I could say I understood that, but I haven't gotten into calibrating my own sets yet. What do the x and y axes represent? What kind of signal is this being sent over, 10000 nit HDR10? Does the graph take into account things that would affect ABL, or are measurements all taken with small windows to maximize HDR brightness?

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post #17128 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Sorry, I wish I could say I understood that, but I haven't gotten into calibrating my own sets yet. What do the x and y axes represent? What kind of signal is this being sent over, 10000 nit HDR10? Does the graph take into account things that would affect ABL, or are measurements all taken with small windows to maximize HDR brightness?
What you see graphed is the displays behavior as it reaches its own top end in terms of nits.

The signal being sent to measure is just your standard %white IRE windows (window size is usually 5 or 10%). And the luminance of each of those windows determines the EOTF curve.

X axis is the %white IRE
Y axis is the %nit output relative to the highest value the display is capable of

Please note, this is a simple explanation of the EOTF curve used for HDR. The curve itself is based off of the 10000 nits reference level and the displays behavior also plays a role as to final behavior of the curve. Notice how the curve levels off right at the point the LG clips (around 69% IRE, or rather value 668 for white balance).

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post #17129 of 28186 Old 05-15-2017, 10:46 PM
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I don't expect you to re do it if you haven't done it already, but have you looked to see if dynamic contrast adds nits? Or if hdr bright/cooler color temps add nits? Just curious what the uncalibrated/improper settings galore max nit potential of these tv's really is. I've seen mentions of ~800 on twitter with unknown settings in small highlights.
TV was properly warmed up now and I got some interesting numbers. I´m using a X-rite i1 DisplayPro for measuring. I measured only maximum nits (OLED 100, CONTRAST 100) from a 10 % area window by R. Masciola.

I don`t know if TV warming up made the difference but I got some surprisingly high nits from a paused 100 % stimulus window. And the nit value kept on rising about 30-40 nits for about 2 minutes until ASBL kicked in.

It seems changing dynamic contrast doesn´t have an effect on max nits. But temperature setting do. COOL (11450K) topped at around 755 nits, MID (9800K) 785 nits, WARM 1 (8450K) 770 nits, WARM 2 (7000K) 765 nits and WARM 3 (6100K) 635 nits.

For normal graph measuring I´m using SDR menu for chancing the stimulus window so TVs setting is chancing SDR<->HDR<->SDR between each measure. That may explain the lower nits with normal measuring.
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post #17130 of 28186 Old 05-16-2017, 12:10 AM
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What you see graphed is the displays behavior as it reaches its own top end in terms of nits.

The signal being sent to measure is just your standard %white IRE windows (window size is usually 5 or 10%). And the luminance of each of those windows determines the EOTF curve.

X axis is the %white IRE
Y axis is the %nit output relative to the highest value the display is capable of

Please note, this is a simple explanation of the EOTF curve used for HDR. The curve itself is based off of the 10000 nits reference level and the displays behavior also plays a role as to final behavior of the curve. Notice how the curve levels off right at the point the LG clips (around 69% IRE, or rather value 668 for white balance).

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Thanks! Since you say the curve is based on 10000 nit reference level, does that mean you're also sending the patterns over an HDR10 signal with metadata formatted for 10,000 nits? Because I would imagine if the metadata was formatted for 1000 nits, or 4000nits, then the target curves would be different, right?

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