2016 LG C6-B6 owners thread - Page 672 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20131 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 02:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
I just notice that I have auto update turned off and glad I did.
I have 4.30 software and 665 hours.
Why would you think that LG, a company with a market cap of 10.7 billion dollars, would release an update that screws with HDR on it's TVs. Unlike other electronic companies, this firmware is not subjective when tested. It is either correct or not correct. IT IS A VISUAL OBSERVATION DURING TEST IN THEIR LABS. The engineers that create these updates are a lot smart than us enthusiast. So ask yourself this question.... Is it more likely that HDR in game mode is wrong, or just brought back in line with how it should be. I downloaded the update, and yes it is slightly "dimmer".. but it actually looks good to me... coming out of black is much better. Is it different than what we are use to .. YES.... but we tell non-enthusiast the same thing when their HDTV gets calibrated. They always say it looks too dim, and then they get use to it.

I am not saying I am right in this post, there might be a problem. I am just making the point of using common sense before screaming "FIRE". We don't know enough yet.
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post #20132 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 02:11 AM
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So if we don't know enough, are there any professionals here who could analyze this new HDR game mode and tell us exactly what's going on from a technical perspective?
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post #20133 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
Can't help.
have and ideea to play hdr files bluray any player ??

powerdvd 17 does not support nvidia cards for hdr 10bit
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post #20134 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Manus View Post
Why would you think that LG, a company with a market cap of 10.7 billion dollars, would release an update that screws with HDR on it's TVs. Unlike other electronic companies, this firmware is not subjective when tested. It is either correct or not correct. IT IS A VISUAL OBSERVATION DURING TEST IN THEIR LABS. The engineers that create these updates are a lot smart than us enthusiast. So ask yourself this question.... Is it more likely that HDR in game mode is wrong, or just brought back in line with how it should be. I downloaded the update, and yes it is slightly "dimmer".. but it actually looks good to me... coming out of black is much better. Is it different than what we are use to .. YES.... but we tell non-enthusiast the same thing when their HDTV gets calibrated. They always say it looks too dim, and then they get use to it.

I am not saying I am right in this post, there might be a problem. I am just making the point of using common sense before screaming "FIRE". We don't know enough yet.
I been around long enough to remember disastrous updates by the rich and famous Microsoft, as a matter of fact a lot of HTPC owners do update their WMC computer.
I have a Windows 7 HTPC that would not go to sleep after updates, I have too reinstall Win 7 with no updates.
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post #20135 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 04:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Manus View Post
Why would you think that LG, a company with a market cap of 10.7 billion dollars, would release an update that screws with HDR on it's TVs. Unlike other electronic companies, this firmware is not subjective when tested. It is either correct or not correct. IT IS A VISUAL OBSERVATION DURING TEST IN THEIR LABS. The engineers that create these updates are a lot smart than us enthusiast. So ask yourself this question.... Is it more likely that HDR in game mode is wrong, or just brought back in line with how it should be. I downloaded the update, and yes it is slightly "dimmer".. but it actually looks good to me... coming out of black is much better. Is it different than what we are use to .. YES.... but we tell non-enthusiast the same thing when their HDTV gets calibrated. They always say it looks too dim, and then they get use to it.

I am not saying I am right in this post, there might be a problem. I am just making the point of using common sense before screaming "FIRE". We don't know enough yet.
Reducing Burn in risk.

This is the obvious reason.
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post #20136 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 04:45 AM
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Didn't see this answered in the thread, but I'm having no luck getting Vudu app on my B6 to play UHD (this is the SmartTV app directly though the B6). Latest firmware, etc

I've got several movies in UHD (i.e. F8) and it shows them as UHD in my account.

I have my preferred resolution set to 4K in the app.

I've streamed 4K and Dolby Vision through Netflix. I've got an 80/80 internet and am running the B6 through a wireless AC network with the router less than 5ft from the LG

(I don't want to dismount and run an Ethernet cable through the wall if I can avoid it)

Thoughts? Is this a setting wrong on my tv? Or is the app deficient?

Thanks
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post #20137 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 05:25 AM
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Has there been any word on if we're eventually going to get an update that allows Dolby Atmos through HDMI ARC?
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post #20138 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post
Yep, LG said there's nothing they can do since it is Best Buy's fault.
Here's the red screen for ya:
How bad is it in normal content? Tell Best Buy you will keep it for the right price, I could live with a little burn in for the right price. That TV is a throw away now......$500 bucks is better then nothing.
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post #20139 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 08:51 AM
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How bad is it in normal content? Tell Best Buy you will keep it for the right price, I could live with a little burn in for the right price. That TV is a throw away now......$500 bucks is better then nothing.
It was terrible on normal content. Especially once I saw the burn pattern on the color fields. Plus it had that yellow smudge-like band down the center.

I just got back from returning it.

But all is not lost yet. I've ordered a new one from a seemingly well regarded ebay vendor for less than I paid for that one!

It should be here in a week or so. I'm excited to get on with it, get ChadB in here to calibrate it and enjoy for several years to come!

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post #20140 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 11:07 AM
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B6 HDMI1 Failed?

This AM my B655P, plugged into HDMI1 since December would not connect with my Comshaft Motorola DVR box. No signal. Nothing... Will admit, on occasion the DVR screen would flash DVI briefly since getting this newer DVR a month or so ago, but always connected within seconds.

Well..., I reset the DVR, reset the B6 and on and on. HDMI1 just appears to be kaput. FWIW, tried HDMI2 and HDMI3 and communication appears instant and both work.

From the experts, am I missing anything here? The B6 has been flawless otherwise AFAIK. Has the port gone bad or is there a workaround? I'd hate for a tech to mess with this set since nothing else has given me a hiccup. Have no other HDMI devices I can check on that port (HDMI1) BTW.

Suggestions? Bit bummed here...

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post #20141 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 12:46 PM
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External Control?

In the manual for the B6, there is a section on external control. It is very very cryptic, and I'm wondering if it is worth decrypting.

What I want is a positive way to set the audio output to specific different settings (internal TV speakers, optical out, etc).

Anyone know if I can either detect what the current setting is (so I could at least ask where I'm starting from) or just directly set it using the external control?

If I can't there is obviously no point in trying to decrypt the protocol :-).
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post #20142 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 12:49 PM
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FWIW, tried HDMI2 and HDMI3 and communication appears instant and both work.
My Oppo UDP-203 was giving me lots of problems with random video dropouts (like the HDCP handshake wasn't working right), I moved it from HDMI3 to HDMI1 and it has been flawless since then. It sure seems as if HDMI inputs can go bad on the B6 :-(.
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post #20143 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tomhorsley View Post
External Control?

In the manual for the B6, there is a section on external control. It is very very cryptic, and I'm wondering if it is worth decrypting.
If I'm not mistaken, that information is for something like professional installers that install high end control systems like Crestron And RTI etc... that use modules to Connect through the RS-232C port.

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post #20144 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
I been around long enough to remember disastrous updates by the rich and famous Microsoft, as a matter of fact a lot of HTPC owners do update their WMC computer.
I have a Windows 7 HTPC that would not go to sleep after updates, I have too reinstall Win 7 with no updates.
I'm being roughly handled by them right now with their latest "update"

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Originally Posted by Fiction View Post
Has there been any word on if we're eventually going to get an update that allows Dolby Atmos through HDMI ARC?
Does anyone have an educated guess as to whether this is a hardware issue that can never be addressed with firmware?
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post #20145 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 01:36 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, that information is for something like professional installers that install high end control systems like Crestron And RTI etc... that use modules to Connect through the RS-232C port.
Yep, but if I felt like decrypting the info in the manual, I'm sure I could talk to the TV via rs232 from my computer, I'm just wondering if it is worth it. It doesn't say anything about what kind of responses you might get or if they contain useful info like the current settings. If it would work, I could rig up a ridiculous "over the river and through the woods" way to set the audio using lirc, my harmony remote, and my computer's IR receiver (I already use lirc and IR to restart the DLNA server so it will be recognized right away).

Right now, the sequence I use on the harmony depends on knowing what the current setting probably is and counting from there. It is kind of unreliable :-).
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post #20146 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 07:09 PM
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so should people update to new FW or not?

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post #20147 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 07:13 PM
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I would recommend against it if you play HDR games. At least until we can get some proper analysis on what's going on with that mode.
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post #20148 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 07:22 PM
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I would recommend against it if you play HDR games. At least until we can get some proper analysis on what's going on with that mode.
I don't have any games console connected to C6. Directv and Oppo 203. if it is no benefit I will skip.
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post #20149 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 08:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
I been around long enough to remember disastrous updates by the rich and famous Microsoft, as a matter of fact a lot of HTPC owners do update their WMC computer.
I have a Windows 7 HTPC that would not go to sleep after updates, I have too reinstall Win 7 with no updates.
Bad example on your part. The firmware issues people are complaining about for HDR in gaming on update 05.30.02 could not be missed by LG's engineers, since it is a total visual thing... Microsoft, ASUS, GigaByte, etc.. can have bad firmware all day long but it can be missed because they generally aren't things their engineer's five senses would see during test.
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post #20150 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 08:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
Reducing Burn in risk.

This is the obvious reason.
Hey Quebecker,

I did some observing tonight on an HDR game on my PS4 Pro (The Last of Us Remastered).
You don't even have to start the game to see, what appears to be an improvement on the changes LG made to the HDR Gaming preset.
The attached image is what we used for observation. If you look thru the window, you get better detail of the blue sky and clouds with the "new" 05.30.02 firmware in HDR Game mode. When set to HDR Standard that detail is gone... overexposed. I hope this makes senses. FYI, the attached image is just a random screenshot I downloaded thru Google.

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post #20151 of 28037 Old 07-16-2017, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Todd Manus View Post
Hey Quebecker,

I did some observing tonight on an HDR game on my PS4 Pro (The Last of Us Remastered).
You don't even have to start the game to see, what appears to be an improvement on the changes LG made to the HDR Gaming preset.
The attached image is what we used for observation. If you look thru the window, you get better detail of the blue sky and clouds with the "new" 05.30.02 firmware in HDR Game mode. When set to HDR Standard that detail is gone... overexposed. I hope this makes senses.

Todd
Ooh, interesting. This is the kind of thing I was hoping for. I'd be totally okay with a lower average output if that meant a higher clip point, and that seems like it might be the case here.

Can anybody else confirm the clip point in the new HDR game mode may be increased to allow for more detail and more contrasty highlights, at the cost of a lower average light output?

Also, if it does this, is it keeping approximately the same PQ curve, just at a lower exposure, meaning a highlight that is 3x as bright as one object will stay 3x as bright, but both objects will be darkened by an equal factor?

If both of those things can be confirmed, I may decide to upgrade my firmware after all. But we need someone with a meter to do those measurements to confirm them.

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post #20152 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 03:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Todd Manus View Post
Hey Quebecker,

I did some observing tonight on an HDR game on my PS4 Pro (The Last of Us Remastered).
You don't even have to start the game to see, what appears to be an improvement on the changes LG made to the HDR Gaming preset.
The attached image is what we used for observation. If you look thru the window, you get better detail of the blue sky and clouds with the "new" 05.30.02 firmware in HDR Game mode. When set to HDR Standard that detail is gone... overexposed. I hope this makes senses. FYI, the attached image is just a random screenshot I downloaded thru Google.

Todd
Yes,

I think I was this first to mentioned it before but the dimmer patch come with a different tone mapping. A super aggressive tone map that probably display everything up to 10000 nits.

However those aggressive tone map always mean overall dimmer scene. The result is in my opinion not great. It was probably easier for them to just tweak the tone map so the TV have an overall reduced brightness and in the same time OLED pixels usage

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post #20153 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 03:51 AM
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Yes,

I think I was this first to mentioned it before but the dimmer patch come with a different tone mapping. A super aggressive tone map that probably display everything up to 10000 nits.

However those aggressive tone map always mean overall dimmer scene. The result is in my opinion not great. It was probably easier for them to just tweak the tone map so the TV have an overall reduced brightness and in the same time OLED pixels usage
You sure it's more aggressive tone mapping and not simply a higher clip/rolloff and an equal decrease in light output to everything else?

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post #20154 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 04:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
You sure it's more aggressive tone mapping and not simply a higher clip/rolloff and an equal decrease in light output to everything else?

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I will tell you what i know.

With this game mode, you see a lot of details in the highlight that you usually can't see in normal HDR mode.

BUT.

Take planet Earth 2. It's maximum nits is 600. So switching between mode, there's no extra highlight details... However game mode still look dimmer... But not by much.

Like you said, we need real measurements.
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post #20155 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
I will tell you what i know.

With this game mode, you see a lot of details in the highlight that you usually can't see in normal HDR mode.

BUT.

Take planet Earth 2. It's maximum nits is 600. So switching between mode, there's no extra highlight details... However game mode still look dimmer... But not by much.

Like you said, we need real measurements.
Exactly. I'm more interested in how the curve compares to standard HDR mode. If you keep the curve steep to a higher point, you can get those extra details without radically changing the look of the image, aside from light output. Ideally, it would look almost exactly like you turned down OLED Light, but with brighter highlights being possible. Are the brightest highlights just as bright as the brightest highlights in standard HDR mode, or are the brightest highlights dimmer as well, even when they go into the 1500+ nit range?

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Here are remeasured OLED light 80, 85, 90, 95 and 100 HDR STANDARD luminance graphs for 55B6V with data at CONTRAST 100.
@northrob , if you made those graphs yourself, could you remeasure in the updated dim HDR Game mode? (assuming you have the update that did that) I really want to know exactly what that change did before updating.

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post #20156 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 06:02 AM
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As for the changes in HDR game mode in this last FW update, I read were two people mentioned contacting LG and that LG said they were aware of it and are working on an update to correct it.

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post #20157 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
@northrob , if you made those graphs yourself, could you remeasure in the updated dim HDR Game mode? (assuming you have the update that did that) I really want to know exactly what that change did before updating.
I´m sorry but I could not even find HDR Game mode. There is only HDR vivid, bright and standard. I only have a USB stick (R.Masciola’s HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns Suite) for HDR source so maybe that is the reason.

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post #20158 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Daryl L View Post
As for the changes in HDR game mode in this last FW update, I read were two people mentioned contacting LG and that LG said they were aware of it and are working on an update to correct it.
Did they provide a possible time frame? I'm Australian down here, and they seem to take their sweet time with our firmwares. I'm stressing out a bit, I was looking forward to the new Uncharted game coming out next month and seeing the vibrant environments on my C6, if this isn't resolved by then, I'm gonna be mighty disappointed.
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post #20159 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 06:38 AM
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No, what I said was pretty much all they said.

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post #20160 of 28037 Old 07-17-2017, 07:32 AM
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As for the changes in HDR game mode in this last FW update, I read were two people mentioned contacting LG and that LG said they were aware of it and are working on an update to correct it.
Hopefully, they're correcting it on the B6 as well. The 4.30.77 Firmware introducing HDR Game Mode on the B6 had similar picture quality to the other presets. Then 4.31.10 on looked dingy in comparison. It was quickly noticeable in Forza Horizon 3.
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