2016 LG C6-B6 owners thread - Page 871 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26101 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
I took some measurements of the tonemapping in HDR Game and HDR Standard in my current C6 firmware, 5.30.25:







Many of you should immediately be able to see why I'm not a big fan of the brighter HDR Standard mode, because it crushes a ton of the brighter highlight details. Essentially this is the way it's curved:



HDR Standard:


  • 0-500 nits -> 0 - 632 nits
  • 500 - 900 nits -> 632 - 702 nits
  • 900 - 4000 nits -> 702 - 703 nits (crushed detail)



HDR Game:


  • 0-1400 nits -> 0 - 604 nits
  • 1400 - 2000 nits -> 604 - 696 nits
  • 2000 - 4000 nits -> 696 - 706 nits (somewhat crushed detail, slightly more visible than HDR Standard's crushed detail)



Yes, HDR Game is substantially darker (43% exposure vs 126% exposure, so about 1/3 the brightness), but it reveals a ton more detail in the highlights, which also brings out more brilliant colors and just overall makes the image pop a lot more. And for those of us who can watch in a blacked out room, our eyes can adjust to a darker image, so it doesn't feel darker at all, but your eyes can't adjust away crushed highlights.



Here's another example of how much this can impact the image. The same shot from Batman v Superman in HDR Standard vs HDR Game, with the exposures adjusted to mimic how our eyes adjust in a dark room:





(click for higher quality)



So yeah, if the darker mode is truly gone with the new update, I'm going to be pretty disappointed, but hopefully HDR controls improve in games (more peak white controls specifically), and more movies get released in DV, so that I won't miss the mode quite as much. Ultimately the improvement to DV will probably be worth it, but it does frustrate me that changing this mode wasn't necessary because games could almost always be made brighter in the settings to compensate for any darker image.


What settings do you exactly use for HDR Game mode?

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post #26102 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 05:01 AM
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i played some COD WWII last night and immediately noticed on the sunny daylight maps the brightness has been amped up again, hard to see if it's back to original but it's definitely night and day brighter overall.
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post #26103 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 06:38 AM
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Bummer that the B6 didn't get that black glow fixed from I've read so far, my dedicated HT room is catered to the deep blacks this TV can produce and I'm not about to experiment with the new firmware.

Any other info on menu speed? Are they laggy with this new update? Anyone else with B6 noticing the glowing blacks with new update?
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post #26104 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Inzane View Post
Bummer that the B6 didn't get that black glow fixed from I've read so far, my dedicated HT room is catered to the deep blacks this TV can produce and I'm not about to experiment with the new firmware.

Any other info on menu speed? Are they laggy with this new update? Anyone else with B6 noticing the glowing blacks with new update?
While it hasn’t been fully fixed. It was definitely improved, so much so that I though it was fixed at first. Haven’t really noticed too much of a slow down with the menus but I rarely go into the menu after. I have everything set up

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post #26105 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 08:27 AM
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on my b6, all of a sudden the volume went up to 100 on its own and under settings i cant get to anything to work and it also wont turn off 8 have to un0lug it amdnow the remote doesnt work at all but the tv still shows a picture when i plug it in. Does anyone have any idea or is it just broke after only 2 yrs.
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post #26106 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post
Oppo's DV is still borked unless you use the beta Oppo FW. AppleTV and Sony X700 are completely fixed with the new LG FW.
Its a sad day when you realize how important these firmware updates are. Sooner or later these Oppo units may be worthless in some situations......
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post #26107 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 08:52 AM
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I really wish this thread would split into a C6 and separate B6 thread!!


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post #26108 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverteg93 View Post
on my b6, all of a sudden the volume went up to 100 on its own and under settings i cant get to anything to work and it also wont turn off 8 have to un0lug it amdnow the remote doesnt work at all but the tv still shows a picture when i plug it in. Does anyone have any idea or is it just broke after only 2 yrs.
If you unplug it for 5 or 10 minutes and it doesn't fix it, you may have to do a factory reset unfortunately.

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post #26109 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 09:32 AM
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i will gladly do a factory reset if i dont have to buy another tv, i cant find much about how to do it is it pretty simple. unplugging it didnt work by the way. any help is really apreeciated thanks
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post #26110 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 09:34 AM
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only problem is i cant even access any menus or anything because the remote doesnt work now and i cant pair it with the tv.
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post #26111 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverteg93 View Post
only problem is i cant even access any menus or anything because the remote doesnt work now and i cant pair it with the tv.
Replace the batteries in the remote, they could be weak. Unplug tv. Plug tv back in and then try powering on tv with the remote. It should try to re-pair.
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post #26112 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mpotter View Post
So, do you have a solution for this Dolby Vision Lip Sync issue?

Am I correct in stating that there is no way to turn Real Cinema off for Dolby Vision Content? I managed to turn it off for SDR and HDR sources at 24Hz, but I have not found a way to disable it with Dolby Vision sources.
Setting TM to 0,0 switches tv to 3:2 cadence, thus turning off RC. I solved my lip sync with DV by connecting my Oppo 203 directly to my tv, and then optical out from tv to avr. Of course, you lose atmos that way.
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post #26113 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 09:51 AM
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its wierd but when i plug it in it comes on by itself with no remote and nothing else works on it, before it did all this the menus would just.pop up and jump around the screen all crazy so maybe its just broke
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post #26114 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Warm2 is closest to D65 on my set pre calibration, but if you prefer other settings that's okay.

Leave Dolby Vision settings at default, although turn off any artificial enhancement settings if they're on (and do this for every mode). Use DV dark, and OLED should be at 50. At 50 you still get the peak highlights at maximum nits. Above 50 and you start crushing highlights significantly, to the point where they actually get darker due to ABL.

HDR10 on the other hand needs to have OLED 100 to hit the peak brightness in the highlights. HDR Standard is the most accurate, although it typically won't look as good as DV dark. HDR Game is a darker mode, but gives you a greater dynamic range, less highlight crushing, so for some brighter non game content it may be worth using that mode as well, but no its not more accurate because it's about 1/3 of the brightness of the PQ standard. I use brightness 51 in HDR modes as that results in perfect blacks on my set in HDR, but 50 looks fine.

In SDR my OLED Light is 33, Brightness 52, and Contrast 80. Precalibration the OLED Light and Contrast numbers were slightly different though. I believe optimal contrast was 83 before tweaking the white balance controls. My SDR is calibrated to 145 nits, as that's a good number to combat ABL, and also 100 nit content in HDR Standard runs at around 140 nits, so it's a good benchmark to switch between the two for SDR/HDR comparisons.

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Thanks for the informative reply! After I read that HDR game mode was an accurate / good looking picture mode I switched to it and played with the settings and it looks really good. I'll try some of your suggestions here
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post #26115 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
The screen is displaying the film content correctly. 3:2 judder actually makes that effect worse, because some frames are displayed 20% longer than the correct rate, and the other half of the frames are displayed for 20% shorter than they should be. It's essentially rapidly switching between 20fps and 30fps. It's awful.

The reason it may look strange to you if you have experience with LCDs, is that LCDs have frame blending, so the transition from one frame to another is more blended together, not as instantaneous. This has an effect similar to interpolation, although nowhere near as extreme, as it does smooth the transition between frames out more. However, you're not seeing that motion correctly on LCDs either. The reason 3:2 may look more comfortable to some people is because that is simulating what CRTs used to do, and it's a similar frame pacing if you watch videos on a 60hz computer monitor, which may be familiar to some people as well. However, it's not correct. It's not how this content was meant to be viewed. 120hz displays were created for the very reason of the ability to display 24fps content with 5:5 pulldown, so that they could be displayed at the correct frame pacing, and perhaps the clarity of the refresh rate of an OLED may be too harsh of a transition away from LCD, but the solution is not to add 3:2 judder back into the equation. The TV is presenting you with the cleanest, most accurate presentation of 24fps content. To fully appreciate what the directors intended, allow yourself to get used to the more accurate presentation. It may feel weird at first, but over time you'll appreciate the cleaner look to the image.
I never owned LCD. Plasma and then OLED. The motion on my E6 is no where near as good as what I had on my plasma. My Pioneer 5020 was 72hz and used 3:3 cadence and was much smoother with panning shots compared to my E6 using 5:5 cadence. 24hz is was the director intended, but the panning shots with the strobing effect are not intended as I have never seen that issue at a theater.
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post #26116 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Setting TM to 0,0 switches tv to 3:2 cadence, thus turning off RC. I solved my lip sync with DV by connecting my Oppo 203 directly to my tv, and then optical out from tv to avr. Of course, you lose atmos that way.


Ok, thanks.

Setting True Motion to 0,0 did nothing to resolve the lip-sync issues for me.

I am also able to solve lip sync issues by running the HDMI directly to the TV and using ARC, but I am not willing to lose Dolby Atmos for it, and ARC is finicky since it relies on HDMI-CEC, which has always given me further issues.

Is the problem in LG’s court or Dolby’s?

This issue is big enough for me that I’ve considered just upgrading to the C7 or C8, but I am not willing to lose 3D!
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post #26117 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mpotter View Post
Ok, thanks.

Setting True Motion to 0,0 did nothing to resolve the lip-sync issues for me.

I am also able to solve lip sync issues by running the HDMI directly to the TV and using ARC, but I am not willing to lose Dolby Atmos for it, and ARC is finicky since it relies on HDMI-CEC, which has always given me further issues.

Is the problem in LG’s court or Dolby’s?

This issue is big enough for me that I’ve considered just upgrading to the C7 or C8, but I am not willing to lose 3D!
My lip sync issues seem resolved with TM at 0,0 and enabling the TV's av sync with a -5 setting. Coincidentally, it doesn't seem to impact non-DV content. X700 player and txnr656 avr, with connections running theough the avr. C6

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post #26118 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 11:04 AM
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After the update i noticed game mode is indeed brighter, and overall looks better than on the previous firmware. It doesn't quite match HDR Standard, but it's very close and definitely an improvement over the dim version we had before.
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post #26119 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 11:11 AM
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found my problem, sounds stupid but when i was dusting i accidentally hit the button behind the lg logo at the bottom and it wedged into a stuck position which is why the menus and volume were stuck. thank god
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post #26120 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 11:14 AM
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My lip sync issues seem resolved with TM at 0,0 and enabling the TV's av sync with a -5 setting. Coincidentally, it doesn't seem to impact non-DV content. X700 player and txnr656 avr, with connections running theough the avr. C6


That hasn’t made a dent in the problem for me using an Apple TV 4K and Oppo 203 passed through a Denon X4300H.
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post #26121 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 11:22 AM
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That hasn’t made a dent in the problem for me using an Apple TV 4K and Oppo 203 passed through a Denon X4300H.
Forgot to mention it only works for DV disc. Streaming through x700 still nope. Off sync then
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post #26122 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 11:22 AM
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Its a sad day when you realize how important these firmware updates are. Sooner or later these Oppo units may be worthless in some situations......
That may well be but, for 2 years, we should be getting support.


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post #26123 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 11:24 AM
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Guys, this is a well know issue, the thing is that is so minimal that you will have to let your eyes adjust in a dark environment for a while. You will have to look really close.

I haven’t complained about this because is very hard to tell in a dark environment with a black pattern and imposible to tell with content.
I play alot of dying light and during night it is dark enough to let my eyes adjust and the whole screen glows against the black background and no part dissapears into background like on earlier firmware. That's how I noticed it. Its like code 0 should equal 0 volts (no power) but instead has code 0 = (X) mV (power still on).

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post #26124 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 11:47 AM
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I really wish this thread would split into a C6 and separate B6 thread!!


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Honestly C6 should have been grouped together with E6, not B6


Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I never owned LCD. Plasma and then OLED. The motion on my E6 is no where near as good as what I had on my plasma. My Pioneer 5020 was 72hz and used 3:3 cadence and was much smoother with panning shots compared to my E6 using 5:5 cadence. 24hz is was the director intended, but the panning shots with the strobing effect are not intended as I have never seen that issue at a theater.
Well that makes your experiences even more bizarre. The motion on an OLED and plasma with 24hz multiple refresh rates should be the same. Probably even better on an OLED since it should be able to handle better color in motion than a plasma. Based on your statements I honestly don't know what you mean by strobing effect. For the people going from LCD to plasma/oled, that term could perhaps describe the instantaneous refresh rate, vs the frame blending seen in LCDs (theaters also typically use LCD projectors), but if you're familiar with Plasma, you're familiar with that instantaneous refresh rate, and since your plasma was 72hz, you should also be familiar with proper 24fps cadence with an instantaneous refresh rate, but unfamiliarity with "proper 24fps cadence with an instantaneous refresh rate" is really the only thing I can imagine when someone calls the 24p motion on an OLED a "strobing effect". As far as I can tell, the motion is being displayed correctly, and adding 3:2 judder wouldn't change the way motion is displayed per refresh anyway, it just changes the rate of the motion to be inconsistent.

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post #26125 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Honestly C6 should have been grouped together with E6, not B6




Well that makes your experiences even more bizarre. The motion on an OLED and plasma with 24hz multiple refresh rates should be the same. Probably even better on an OLED since it should be able to handle better color in motion than a plasma. Based on your statements I honestly don't know what you mean by strobing effect. For the people going from LCD to plasma/oled, that term could perhaps describe the instantaneous refresh rate, vs the frame blending seen in LCDs (theaters also typically use LCD projectors), but if you're familiar with Plasma, you're familiar with that instantaneous refresh rate, and since your plasma was 72hz, you should also be familiar with proper 24fps cadence with an instantaneous refresh rate, but unfamiliarity with "proper 24fps cadence with an instantaneous refresh rate" is really the only thing I can imagine when someone calls the 24p motion on an OLED a "strobing effect". As far as I can tell, the motion is being displayed correctly, and adding 3:2 judder wouldn't change the way motion is displayed per refresh anyway, it just changes the rate of the motion to be inconsistent.

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The strobing occurs with background images when the image pans horizontally. Especially images in background that have sharp edges like walls on buildings that are light colored. 3:2 actually reduces the effect by blurring the edges a bit. People on this forum say the Sony motion processing on their OLED's is much better than the LG processing. I don't own a Sony OLED so I cant verify that. I don't know why motion was better on the Pioneer, but it was. Maybe less pixels turning off and on (2K vs 4K) as image pans thus not making the strobing effect as obvious.
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post #26126 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
The strobing occurs with background images when the image pans horizontally. Especially images in background that have sharp edges like walls on buildings that are light colored. 3:2 actually reduces the effect by blurring the edges a bit. People on this forum say the Sony motion processing on their OLED's is much better than the LG processing. I don't own a Sony OLED so I cant verify that. I don't know why motion was better on the Pioneer, but it was. Maybe less pixels turning off and on (2K vs 4K) as image pans thus not making the strobing effect as obvious.
3:2 does not blur edges. I've watched MANY panning 24fps scenes with no TruMotion and Real Cinema enabled, and have absolutely never seen anything wrong with the way the motion is displayed. Again with the sharp edges, that sounds exactly like what I was talking about before with the instantaneous refresh rate. For movies with a fast shutter rate, you absolutely should be seeing the objects on screen making little jumps between frames, because there is not enough motion blur. In most movies, the shutter rate is more appropriate, adding a motion blur to fill in the gaps in motion information that your eyes expect, which makes these jumps less noticeable. Most 30fps games also have this motion blur. Assassin's Creed does not, however, so motion may appear more jarring in that game for the same reason.

TruMotion doesn't add motion blur, but it adds additional frames between the actual frames, so it makes this transition less jarring. 3:2 does not do this, nor does it blur the edges like you said. In fact, half the frames displayed in 3:2 will be making harsher jumps because the time between frames will be longer, and the inconsistency of the 3:2 rate makes pans in particular look bad.

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post #26127 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
What settings do you exactly use for HDR Game mode?
Sorry about the delay, wasn't back in front of my screen until now. The settings are pretty typical. Unfortunately, you can't modify the way the tonemapping curve works by modifying contrast like on other sets, as tonemapping appears to be applied before contrast. And OLED Light doesn't modify it either. Here are my HDR Game settings:

OLED Light: 100
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 51
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Color Temperature: W50
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Dynamic Color: Off
Preferred Color: 0/0/0
Color Gamut: Normal
Super Resolution: Off
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Black Level: Low
Motion Eye Care: Off

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post #26128 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I never owned LCD. Plasma and then OLED. The motion on my E6 is no where near as good as what I had on my plasma. My Pioneer 5020 was 72hz and used 3:3 cadence and was much smoother with panning shots compared to my E6 using 5:5 cadence. 24hz is was the director intended, but the panning shots with the strobing effect are not intended as I have never seen that issue at a theater.
Same here--I skipped over LCD. There is no way any director intended the choppy, strobing effect. It does seem to be inherent to OLED. This is my only complaint about OLED. I only see it on 24p pans. All other motion looks great.
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post #26129 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 02:05 PM
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3:2 does not blur edges. I've watched MANY panning 24fps scenes with no TruMotion and Real Cinema enabled, and have absolutely never seen anything wrong with the way the motion is displayed. Again with the sharp edges, that sounds exactly like what I was talking about before with the instantaneous refresh rate. For movies with a fast shutter rate, you absolutely should be seeing the objects on screen making little jumps between frames, because there is not enough motion blur. In most movies, the shutter rate is more appropriate, adding a motion blur to fill in the gaps in motion information that your eyes expect, which makes these jumps less noticeable. Most 30fps games also have this motion blur. Assassin's Creed does not, however, so motion may appear more jarring in that game for the same reason.

TruMotion doesn't add motion blur, but it adds additional frames between the actual frames, so it makes this transition less jarring. 3:2 does not do this, nor does it blur the edges like you said. In fact, half the frames displayed in 3:2 will be making harsher jumps because the time between frames will be longer, and the inconsistency of the 3:2 rate makes pans in particular look bad.

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This motion topic has been beat to death, but try watching the opening scene of "Hell or High Water" with Trumotion off and Real Cinema on. If you don't see what @wxman is talking about then you are immune and you should consider yourself very lucky.
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post #26130 of 28698 Old 06-23-2018, 02:18 PM
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This motion topic has been beat to death, but try watching the opening scene of "Hell or High Water" with Trumotion off and Real Cinema on. If you don't see what @wxman is talking about then you are immune and you should consider yourself very lucky.
I don't have that movie. Also, I don't think it's that I'm immune, it's that I have accepted that this is what 24fps motion is supposed to look like when it isn't hampered by LCD frame blending, 3:2 judder, or perhaps the difference with Plasmas is that they weren't quite as instantaneous as OLEDs either. Each refresh was essentially broken down into 10 sub refreshes, with the pixels dithering on and off to approximate the colors, so they often had less "motion resolution" as a result. OLEDs don't need to do that, so they can instantaneously draw the correct color pixels.

Even CRTs probably have a slight after image effect to them. Not quite as severe as LCD, but the motion still won't be as perfectly clear as it is on OLED. You're just not used to it being so clear, most likely. But adding judder to it is not improving it whatsoever. If you have to do anything, add a very small amount of TruMotion instead. At least that way you're still playing back at the correct cadence, and the lower values of TruMotion will likely somewhat approximate the effect you have on less capable screens as well. But to me, that's just completely backwards thinking.

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