2016 LG C6-B6 owners thread - Page 916 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27451 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by no1special View Post
I think you understand my issue, but just in case allow me to try to define what I'm seeing. It's most easily noticed on faces. Any type of movement and there appears a quick flicker or stutter like you described. When I turn RC off, it's much less noticeable. I understand what you're saying about slower pixel response of LCDs introducing a slight blurring/blending effect between frames, so less stutter or not even noticeable. Smoother motion.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Real Cinema takes 24 fps material and uses 5:5 processing to convert to panel's native 120 Hz. With RC off and TM off, the TV is using 2:3 pulldown to convert to 120 Hz, correct?


I used to have TM On with DJ at 3 and DB at 0, but after a couple of years, started noticing what looked like frame drop/skip frequently. It simply did not happen first couple years of ownership. Even after resetting TV to defaults, still happens now. Firmware upgrade not to blame. So now I just turn all motion processing off. It makes low framerate stutter a bit more noticeable, but rather have that than frame drop/skip.
Real Cinema off does introduce 3:2 judder. It's basically a 60hz mode instead of 120hz. The effect you see is probably less noticeable with 3:2 judder because some frames appear on screen for less time. Personally, this appears as much more significant judder to me, because now frame pacing is no longer consistent, but it also may feel more familiar to a lot of people because a lot of displays or devices still run at 60hz and use 3:2 pulldown. For example, if you watch TV or movies on a cable box, DVR or Console that outputs at 1080p or 4K, you're getting a 60p signal. These TVs won't recreate the original 24fps from a signal like that, so you'll always see 3:2 judder on content like that unless you introduce TruMotion. But even with dejudder at 1 there are still noticeable artifacts. Perhaps Real Cinema off looks better to you simply because you're more used to it. But trust me as someone who can very clearly recognize differences in frame pacing, turning RC off definitely results in more judder and a less accurate frame pacing.

It's also possible the 3:2 judder distracts your eyes from the more instantaneous frame changes, so they're less noticeable because of something like that.

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post #27452 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 04:53 AM
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ive had my 2016 b6 for 2 years...no IR or BI. i never watch cnn or channels with banners or borders..in fact i stopped watching stuff on amazon with borders. i watch 4k streaming and hd channels that fill the screen. people who dont have ir or bi yet..i suggest following my lead.

I, like most people, didn't purchase this set to only watch 4k streaming and hd channels that fill the screen.
This set was purchased as a family tv. (varied viewing).

Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #27453 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 05:05 AM
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ive had my 2016 b6 for 2 years...no IR or BI. i never watch cnn or channels with banners or borders..in fact i stopped watching stuff on amazon with borders. i watch 4k streaming and hd channels that fill the screen. people who dont have ir or bi yet..i suggest following my lead.
No need to follow your lead. Varied viewing is fine. Watch it all, enjoy it all

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post #27454 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 06:20 AM
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I feel you, the same thing happened to me and my C6.

@clayhans @Tarpon65 , we hate to hear about the image retention on your OLED TV. Even though this does affect a small percentage of OLED users, LG is working with customers to see what can be done to address the situation. For further assistance, please check out the following link: oled.lgsupport.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
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post #27455 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 06:20 AM
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I feel you, the same thing happened to me and my C6.

@clayhans @Tarpon65 , we hate to hear about the image retention on your OLED TV. Even though this does affect a small percentage of OLED users, LG is working with customers to see what can be done to address the situation. For further assistance, please check out the following link: oled.lgsupport.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
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post #27456 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 06:41 AM
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I have to say I've loved my B6 65" since purchasing it several years ago. Unfortunately last weekend I started to see a burn in from the Fox News station banner. My wife is retired and the set remains on 14+ hours a day, and I'm image Fox news is on for 3-4 of those hours, one hour or two in the AM and then repeat in the evening. I have th tv set on ISF Bright as the TV is in a sunny room with a lot of windows. I've been running the Panel Noise program for a few nights this past week, but I can still see a faint image during lighter scenes. I've since turned down the tv setting to ISF Dark room, but I guess I'm just hoping the issue doesn't get worse to quickly. Any other suggestions to keep these from getting much worse?

@Tarpon65 , we hate to hear about the image retention on your OLED TV. Even though this does affect a small percentage of OLED users, LG is working with customers to see what can be done to address the situation. For further assistance please check out the following link: oled.lgsupport.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
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post #27457 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 01:27 PM
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@Tarpon65 , we hate to hear about the image retention on your OLED TV. Even though this does affect a small percentage of OLED users, LG is working with customers to see what can be done to address the situation. For further assistance please check out the following link: oled.lgsupport.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
There are several commercials now which like to end on a near solid read screen (or I can just tell my computer to display solid red). When I have a solid red screen, I can see a very faint box image near the bottom left which appears to match the orange box always displayed during the espn show PTI. I don't notice it normally, only when the screen goes solid red. I'm kind of surprised by it, because it isn't like the TV is tuned to espn 24/7 and that orange box is only used by PTI which is a half hour show 5 days a week. I do watch it a lot, but there can't be all that many hours of it. I guess some of the burn in studies have shown that the red pixels get "tired" sooner than the other colors and orange does have a lot of red.

Maybe I should start downloading the recordings from my TiVo and running a filter on the orange box region to turn it green :-).
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post #27458 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LG Electronics View Post
@Tarpon65 , we hate to hear about the image retention on your OLED TV. Even though this does affect a small percentage of OLED users, LG is working with customers to see what can be done to address the situation. For further assistance please check out the following link: oled.lgsupport.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
LG, a report was filled out with receipt and photos attached. Thank you.

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post #27459 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tomhorsley View Post
There are several commercials now which like to end on a near solid read screen (or I can just tell my computer to display solid red). When I have a solid red screen, I can see a very faint box image near the bottom left which appears to match the orange box always displayed during the espn show PTI. I don't notice it normally, only when the screen goes solid red. I'm kind of surprised by it, because it isn't like the TV is tuned to espn 24/7 and that orange box is only used by PTI which is a half hour show 5 days a week. I do watch it a lot, but there can't be all that many hours of it. I guess some of the burn in studies have shown that the red pixels get "tired" sooner than the other colors and orange does have a lot of red.

Maybe I should start downloading the recordings from my TiVo and running a filter on the orange box region to turn it green :-).
Not sure if I understand correctly but if it's a test for burn in your looking for, Youtube has this...

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post #27460 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Real Cinema off does introduce 3:2 judder. It's basically a 60hz mode instead of 120hz. The effect you see is probably less noticeable with 3:2 judder because some frames appear on screen for less time. Personally, this appears as much more significant judder to me, because now frame pacing is no longer consistent, but it also may feel more familiar to a lot of people because a lot of displays or devices still run at 60hz and use 3:2 pulldown. For example, if you watch TV or movies on a cable box, DVR or Console that outputs at 1080p or 4K, you're getting a 60p signal. These TVs won't recreate the original 24fps from a signal like that, so you'll always see 3:2 judder on content like that unless you introduce TruMotion. But even with dejudder at 1 there are still noticeable artifacts. Perhaps Real Cinema off looks better to you simply because you're more used to it. But trust me as someone who can very clearly recognize differences in frame pacing, turning RC off definitely results in more judder and a less accurate frame pacing.

It's also possible the 3:2 judder distracts your eyes from the more instantaneous frame changes, so they're less noticeable because of something like that.

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According to Rtings review of the B6, it can display 24 fps judder-free if input signal is 24 Hz, but 24 fps material in a 60i or 60p signal from external device, it cannot display judder-free. So I have my blu-ray player output 24 Hz, and the new Fire TV Stick 4K has a setting for outputting the refresh rate of the source material, provided the relevant app supports it.


Regardless, I've never been sensitive to 2:3 pulldown judder. I'm very sensitive to the micro-stutter that Real Cinema exacerbates and somewhat sensitive to low framerate stutter (like in panning shots) as this is also more apparent on an OLED vs LCD or Plasma. Our old Pioneer Plasma probably had the best motion handling of any TV I've seen.


Not sure what you mean by 2:3 pulldown being a 60 Hz mode. The panel's native refresh rate is 120 Hz so no matter the algorithm used, it has to convert to 120 Hz, no? The TV always displays everything at 120 Hz, converting as needed, or am I missing something?

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post #27461 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 06:49 PM
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According to Rtings review of the B6, it can display 24 fps judder-free if input signal is 24 Hz, but 24 fps material in a 60i or 60p signal from external device, it cannot display judder-free. So I have my blu-ray player output 24 Hz, and the new Fire TV Stick 4K has a setting for outputting the refresh rate of the source material, provided the relevant app supports it.


Regardless, I've never been sensitive to 2:3 pulldown judder. I'm very sensitive to the micro-stutter that Real Cinema exacerbates and somewhat sensitive to low framerate stutter (like in panning shots) as this is also more apparent on an OLED vs LCD or Plasma. Our old Pioneer Plasma probably had the best motion handling of any TV I've seen.


Not sure what you mean by 2:3 pulldown being a 60 Hz mode. The panel's native refresh rate is 120 Hz so no matter the algorithm used, it has to convert to 120 Hz, no? The TV always displays everything at 120 Hz, converting as needed, or am I missing something?
It can display 24fps content over 60i correctly if Real Cinema is on. 60p it can't.

When I said 60hz mode, I was saying I was thinking maybe the refresh rate changes to 60hz when Real Cinema is off, whether that's a physical refresh rate or simply some kind of "processing rate" in software. When it comes to OLED I think the idea of refresh rate really works a bit differently anyway. Like, I believe the pixel stays the same until its told to change, so a "60hz mode" would simply mean it simply communicates that information half as often as usual. That would also reduce processor load and improve latency, which is why real cinema is disabled in game mode.

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post #27462 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 06:50 PM
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There are several commercials now which like to end on a near solid read screen (or I can just tell my computer to display solid red). When I have a solid red screen, I can see a very faint box image near the bottom left which appears to match the orange box always displayed during the espn show PTI. I don't notice it normally, only when the screen goes solid red. I'm kind of surprised by it, because it isn't like the TV is tuned to espn 24/7 and that orange box is only used by PTI which is a half hour show 5 days a week. I do watch it a lot, but there can't be all that many hours of it. I guess some of the burn in studies have shown that the red pixels get "tired" sooner than the other colors and orange does have a lot of red.

Maybe I should start downloading the recordings from my TiVo and running a filter on the orange box region to turn it green :-).
What model TV do you have and what's your OLED light setting? Orange is the 2nd worst offender behind yellow, followed by red, in terms of BI onset and severity.


Tivo has a feature that let's you run a filter on an area of the screen? That's pretty cool. I wish streaming devices like Roku and Fire TV had something like that.


LG, if you're reading this, it would be great if you could add an overlay feature to your OLED TVs. Something like a rectangle that can be sized and move around on screen to cover up static TV logos. I'm thinking consisting of static noise would be most "random." Black would not age the pixels at all, so could result in a sort of reverse burn-in effect, where the logo area appears lighter than the rest of the screen over time.

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post #27463 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 07:02 PM
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It can display 24fps content over 60i correctly if Real Cinema is on. 60p it can't.

When I said 60hz mode, I was saying I was thinking maybe the refresh rate changes to 60hz when Real Cinema is off, whether that's a physical refresh rate or simply some kind of "processing rate" in software. When it comes to OLED I think the idea of refresh rate really works a bit differently anyway. Like, I believe the pixel stays the same until its told to change, so a "60hz mode" would simply mean it simply communicates that information half as often as usual. That would also reduce processor load and improve latency, which is why real cinema is disabled in game mode.

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According to https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6-oled the 24p playback section states that turning TM on and DJ and DB both at 0 can remove judder for both 60p and 60i sources, but not consistently enough to earn a passing grade. Only 24p sources earn a passing grade for judder-free playback when Real Cinema is turned on. But when TM is on, I believe RC automatically turns off.

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post #27464 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 07:22 PM
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Guys,
Please hold off sending anything to that website posted by 'LG Electronics'.
I believe this to be a phishing scam. The site certificate is not the same as LG main website, and the certificate is only valid for 4 months.
The certificate creation date is Jan 16, 2019 which is when this account was created.
I sent an email to LG customer support to verify this.
Will update when I hear back from them.

UPDATE : Below is response from LG
Reply to Your Inquiry

We truly appreciate your time and effort reaching us and thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

In response to this, we will be glad to raise this matter to our Executive Department, to check further assistance and option in addressing this matter as soon as possible time. We assure you, reports are being reviewed by LG management periodically and being utilized as valuable inputs for consideration in our products and services for future innovation and services protection.
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post #27465 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 07:29 PM
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Guys,
Please hold off sending anything to that website posted by 'LG Electronics'.
I believe this to be a phishing scam. The site certificate is not the same as LG main website, and the certificate is only valid for 4 months.
The certificate creation date is Jan 16, 2019 which is when this account was created.
I sent an email to LG customer support to verify this.
Will update when I hear back from them.
Nice work. Thanks! Assuming you already contact AVS about it?

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post #27466 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 07:36 PM
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Nice work. Thanks! Assuming you already contact AVS about it?
Actually I haven't yet. Not sure how to get hold of a moderator.

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post #27467 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 07:37 PM
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Actually I haven't yet. Not sure how to get hold of a moderator.
I just reported that member's post. Hopefully the mods can act quickly on it.

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post #27468 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 07:45 PM
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Guys,

Please hold off sending anything to that website posted by 'LG Electronics'.

I believe this to be a phishing scam. The site certificate is not the same as LG main website, and the certificate is only valid for 4 months.

The certificate creation date is Jan 16, 2019 which is when this account was created.

I sent an email to LG customer support to verify this.

Will update when I hear back from them.
I agree. The domain linked is also owned by godaddy which makes it seem super not legit.

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post #27469 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 09:13 PM
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Do everyone's HDR movies look particularly dark on their sets? My only access to HDR content has been Netflix and Amazon Prime. I tried a few 4K HDR movies on Prime through the new Fire TV Stick 4K, and they're all quite dark. I especially recall a specific scene in Manchester by the Sea where Casey Affleck's character is in a bar and gets into a fight. That scene is nearly black. I mean completely unwatchable. Doesn't matter which HDR picture mode. I had to turn Dynamic Contrast to High and then it was much better, watchable, but still darker than it should be, IMO.



I remember others posting that an LG firmware made HDR game mode too dark. Can anyone confirm same issue with HDR movies?

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post #27470 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 09:18 PM
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Do everyone's HDR movies look particularly dark on their sets? My only access to HDR content has been Netflix and Amazon Prime. I tried a few 4K HDR movies on Prime through the new Fire TV Stick 4K, and they're all quite dark. I especially recall a specific scene in Manchester by the Sea where Casey Affleck's character is in a bar and gets into a fight. That scene is nearly black. I mean completely unwatchable. Doesn't matter which HDR picture mode. I had to turn Dynamic Contrast to High and then it was much better, watchable, but still darker than it should be, IMO.



I remember others posting that an LG firmware made HDR game mode too dark. Can anyone confirm same issue with HDR movies?
HDR is designed to be watched in a dark room. I always do so and have never felt the image was too dark. In fact because of how good the blacks are on this set, I've found a big improvement in shadow depth and detail. Huge difference compared to my LCD.

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post #27471 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 09:26 PM
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HDR is designed to be watched in a dark room. I always do so and have never felt the image was too dark. In fact because of how good the blacks are on this set, I've found a big improvement in shadow depth and detail. Huge difference compared to my LCD.

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I hear you, but this goes way beyond being optimized for dark room viewing. When I say that scene was nearly black, I'm not kidding. At first, all I heard was audio and saw an almost black screen. I thought there was no video, just audio, until I saw a bit of movement. Then I remembered others' complaints about HDR game mode being too dark and Dynamic Contrast on High helping, so I tried then and finally got a watchable image. Still too dark though.

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post #27472 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 10:12 PM
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I hear you, but this goes way beyond being optimized for dark room viewing. When I say that scene was nearly black, I'm not kidding. At first, all I heard was audio and saw an almost black screen. I thought there was no video, just audio, until I saw a bit of movement. Then I remembered others' complaints about HDR game mode being too dark and Dynamic Contrast on High helping, so I tried then and finally got a watchable image. Still too dark though.
Were you watching in a dark room? Because a lit room can make deep shadows look totally black, but watching in a dark room makes a massive difference on what you're able to see.

Like I've said, never had an issue when watching with my lights out. Things can certainly look too dark with the lights on, even to the point you were describing. Usually there are other highlights in the image to balance it if the shadows are that dark, but not always, especially if it's a longer scene.

Then again it's also possible your brightness control is set wrong. In HDR I have brightness set to 51, although in the Amazon app I set it to 47 as there appears to be a glitch with the black levels on that app making them too bright. Likely a limite/full range conversion error.

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Last edited by morphinapg; 01-17-2019 at 10:21 PM.
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post #27473 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Were you watching in a dark room? Because a lit room can make deep shadows look totally black, but watching in a dark room makes a massive difference on what you're able to see.

Like I've said, never had an issue when watching with my lights out. Things can certainly look too dark with the lights on, even to the point you were describing. Usually there are other highlights in the image to balance it if the shadows are that dark, but not always, especially if it's a longer scene.

Then again it's also possible your brightness control is set wrong. In HDR I have brightness set to 51, although in the Amazon app I set it to 47 as there appears to be a glitch with the black levels on that app making them too bright. Likely a limite/full range conversion error.

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Not completely dark room, but dim. You're just gonna have to trust me on this. The scene was almost completely black. No way in hell it's meant to look that way, dark room or not.


My brightness setting is 50 across every input. Not using the built-in app. Like I said, Fire TV Stick 4K. Non-HDR content looks fine.


It's fine. No worries. I was just curious if anyone else experienced same thing with HDR movies. Doubt I'll get many replies.

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post #27474 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 10:49 PM
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Not completely dark room, but dim. You're just gonna have to trust me on this. The scene was almost completely black. No way in hell it's meant to look that way, dark room or not.


My brightness setting is 50 across every input. Not using the built-in app. Like I said, Fire TV Stick 4K. Non-HDR content looks fine.


It's fine. No worries. I was just curious if anyone else experienced same thing with HDR movies. Doubt I'll get many replies.
Try 51 on HDR. 50 clips blacks on all inputs (except maybe Dolby Vision, but I have no way to tell for sure). 51 on HDR still has perfect blacks, just doesn't clip as much. In SDR I use a brightness of 52.

Also, might want to make sure your fire stick isn't outputting full range. If it has an option for full/limited, set it to limited. Otherwise you may need to set "black level" to High on that input.

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post #27475 of 28186 Old 01-17-2019, 11:16 PM
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Try 51 on HDR. 50 clips blacks on all inputs (except maybe Dolby Vision, but I have no way to tell for sure). 51 on HDR still has perfect blacks, just doesn't clip as much. In SDR I use a brightness of 52.

Also, might want to make sure your fire stick isn't outputting full range. If it has an option for full/limited, set it to limited. Otherwise you may need to set "black level" to High on that input.
Just tried it with that scene. 51 doesn't help. All raising the Brightness beyond 50 does is wash out the picture. The Fire TV Stick 4K does not have a black level output adjustment. It works best with the TV's black level set to Low. Setting it to High washes out the picture. My Roku stick on the other hand needs the TV input set to High.



Also, I settled on 50 for Brightness (using SDR patterns) because BL 16 is black and 17 is just barely visible in a dark room, eyes adjusted, nose to the screen. I used to run at 52 as I found near black a bit too dark for my taste, but was bothered by the noise/artifacts near black, especially with streaming content.

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post #27476 of 28186 Old 01-18-2019, 05:20 AM
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No need to follow your lead. Varied viewing is fine. Watch it all, enjoy it all

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obviously thats not the case with the possibility of getting ir or bi. i was giving insight,as someone who doesnt have any of this by giving a template or guideline..do as u wish its ur tv..but i wont be watching any channels with static images..especially cnn.
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post #27477 of 28186 Old 01-18-2019, 05:36 AM
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Do everyone's HDR movies look particularly dark on their sets? My only access to HDR content has been Netflix and Amazon Prime. I tried a few 4K HDR movies on Prime through the new Fire TV Stick 4K, and they're all quite dark. I especially recall a specific scene in Manchester by the Sea where Casey Affleck's character is in a bar and gets into a fight. That scene is nearly black. I mean completely unwatchable. Doesn't matter which HDR picture mode. I had to turn Dynamic Contrast to High and then it was much better, watchable, but still darker than it should be, IMO.



I remember others posting that an LG firmware made HDR game mode too dark. Can anyone confirm same issue with HDR movies?
I recently reviewed Skycraper in 4K/HDR and gave it a slight negative feedback for being way too dark. Even one of my casual friends (as in, non-videophile, not interested in technology) commented "How come your TV is so dark" after we watched Skyscraper at mine.

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post #27478 of 28186 Old 01-18-2019, 05:41 AM
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What model TV do you have and what's your OLED light setting? Orange is the 2nd worst offender behind yellow, followed by red, in terms of BI onset and severity.


Tivo has a feature that let's you run a filter on an area of the screen? That's pretty cool.
It is a B6, and I've never changed the oled light setting, so it is whatever is the default (I'm not even sure where to find it :-).

The Tivo doesn't have a filter, the only thing it provides is a way to download the recordings (of unprotected programs), I'd have to rig up a filter in ffmpeg, but I'm assuming that's possible because everything seems to be possible in ffmpeg :-).
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post #27479 of 28186 Old 01-18-2019, 05:47 AM
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obviously thats not the case with the possibility of getting ir or bi. i was giving insight,as someone who doesnt have any of this by giving a template or guideline..do as u wish its ur tv..but i wont be watching any channels with static images..especially cnn.
I'm not worried. I have a C6 since it came out and a C8 and haven't had any issues. I watch all types of content and always gaming with Xbox, PS4 and switch.

I spent good money on the TV's im gonna enjoy them.

TV - LG C8 & LG C6, AVR - Pioneer SC-LX502, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro & Switch

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post #27480 of 28186 Old 01-18-2019, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Try 51 on HDR. 50 clips blacks on all inputs (except maybe Dolby Vision, but I have no way to tell for sure). 51 on HDR still has perfect blacks, just doesn't clip as much. In SDR I use a brightness of 52.

Also, might want to make sure your fire stick isn't outputting full range. If it has an option for full/limited, set it to limited. Otherwise you may need to set "black level" to High on that input.
51? My B6 OLED looks washed out at 51. in HDR, blacks are raised even at 50. In some cases they are not perfect blacks no matter how low the brightness in certain HDR content.

What are your other settings that gives you perfect blacks in HDR @ 51 brightness?
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