Black Crush on 559ef9500 after using test patterns - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 20 Old 05-05-2016, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Black Crush on 559ef9500 after using test patterns

Hey guys, I'm running into an infuriating problem with my new OLED tv here and was hoping someone could shed some light on what's going on and hopefully a resolution.

I'm running a PS4 via HDMI with the PS4 set to full RGB and Deep color on automatic.

Tv running on game mode in pc input for input lag.

HDMI Deep Color Off
Black level low
Gamma medium
Color C30
Sharpness 10
Tint 0

Now I used the test patterns given here initially and ended up getting similar results when using Disney WOW on my PS4.

Recommended settings with WOW were as follows...

OLED 40
Contrast 99
Brightness 50

Not sure why contrast was so high, perhaps I did it wrong.

I made it so ideal white blended in and I couldn't see the higher than ideal white.

The settings for brightness were done correctly.

This screen was a bit hard on my eyes so I brought the contrast to the commonly used 70 and brightness to 54 to compensate.

So I start using my PS4. Having to adjust gamma sliders all the way up in my games to see the images just above black.

Well, I didn't think much of it until I played games where raising it all the way didn't show the image I was supposed to see.

Games look fantastic but noticed some black crush as well.

Today I was watching youtube, yet again on my PS4 and noticed that Jimmy Kimmels suit was blending in with the black in the background.

I tried turning contrast on oled up to no change in the crush.

I had to raise the brightness to 73 to see the quality of his clothing.

Obviously a far days walk from the results on the test patterns.

Any suggestions, a setting im missing

Hallllp
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post #2 of 20 Old 05-05-2016, 06:20 PM
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Bro, I think it's the quality of your source not the tv crushing blacks. You should never, ever have to go above brightness 56-57 with this set
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post #3 of 20 Old 05-05-2016, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theycallmeloaf View Post
Hey guys, I'm running into an infuriating problem with my new OLED tv here and was hoping someone could shed some light on what's going on and hopefully a resolution.

I'm running a PS4 via HDMI with the PS4 set to full RGB and Deep color on automatic.

Tv running on game mode in pc input for input lag.

HDMI Deep Color Off
Black level low
Gamma medium
Color C30
Sharpness 10
Tint 0

Now I used the test patterns given here initially and ended up getting similar results when using Disney WOW on my PS4.

Recommended settings with WOW were as follows...

OLED 40
Contrast 99
Brightness 50

Not sure why contrast was so high, perhaps I did it wrong.

I made it so ideal white blended in and I couldn't see the higher than ideal white.

The settings for brightness were done correctly.

This screen was a bit hard on my eyes so I brought the contrast to the commonly used 70 and brightness to 54 to compensate.

So I start using my PS4. Having to adjust gamma sliders all the way up in my games to see the images just above black.

Well, I didn't think much of it until I played games where raising it all the way didn't show the image I was supposed to see.

Games look fantastic but noticed some black crush as well.

Today I was watching youtube, yet again on my PS4 and noticed that Jimmy Kimmels suit was blending in with the black in the background.

I tried turning contrast on oled up to no change in the crush.

I had to raise the brightness to 73 to see the quality of his clothing.

Obviously a far days walk from the results on the test patterns.

Any suggestions, a setting im missing

Hallllp
If you set your ps4 to rgb full, you need to set HDMI black level on tv to high. Redo the brightness and you will see it will work better.
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post #4 of 20 Old 05-05-2016, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks mate. Changing it to high helped...

I thought low was preferred for this TV. It sure looks better outside of the crush.

High seems to wash out colors a little bit too.

Should I keep my ps4 on limited or turn the TV from low to high?
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post #5 of 20 Old 05-05-2016, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theycallmeloaf View Post
Should I keep my ps4 on limited or turn the TV from low to high?
If you set your PS4 to "full" then you should also set your TV to "high".

Alternatively, if you have your PS4 set to "limited" then you should have your TV set to "low".


Technically using "full" and "high" should have less banding for gaming content, but I've no idea if such thing is even visible in the first place.
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post #6 of 20 Old 05-06-2016, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess I don't really understand why that's causing it.

How is it that the test patterns and Disney WOW discs end up being fine on the PS4 but everything else isn't likeep the games or youtube.

I mean hell I used the Disney WOW disc in the PS4 too, wouldn't that have effected brightness levels?

At 50 brightness just crushed 1% with low blacks and full RGB settings.

Why would it not effect the test patterns?
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post #7 of 20 Old 05-06-2016, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
If you set your PS4 to "full" then you should also set your TV to "high".

Alternatively, if you have your PS4 set to "limited" then you should have your TV set to "low".


Technically using "full" and "high" should have less banding for gaming content, but I've no idea if such thing is even visible in the first place.
Nope, you guys are missing the part where he set his input mode to PC. That changes the black level/color space.

You're suggesting settings based on input set to normal hdmi.

low + full Rgb is actually correct with input labeled pc
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post #8 of 20 Old 05-06-2016, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post
Nope, you guys are missing the part where he set his input mode to PC. That changes the black level/color space.

You're suggesting settings based on input set to normal hdmi.

low + full Rgb is actually correct with input labeled pc
Having the HDMI input label changed to PC only disables the various video processing settings, giving you the least amount of input lag, though it does force all non-expert picture modes into a WIDE color space. The black level is still changeable however and the correct setting is either Full RGB + High or Limited RGB + Low, regardless of input. Using Full RGB + Low will give you seriously crushed blacks, which is what he's noticing.

Low black level setting is for the TV to know that the signal being sent to it has a signal color range of 16-235(which is what movies use), therefor it needs to lower the floor of black so that 16 is equivalent to 0. If however the device can output a full 0-255 RGB signal, than the TV should be set to High/Normal black level. Then it is up to the device to know how it should deal with content that is Full RGB(games) or limited(movies)
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-06-2016, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Detailed. Thank you, but again. Why wouldn't this be reflected in the test patterns using the same device?
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post #10 of 20 Old 05-06-2016, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theycallmeloaf View Post
Detailed. Thank you, but again. Why wouldn't this be reflected in the test patterns using the same device?
Does the PS4 video player have a separate brightness setting? If so make sure that it's properly set, could be masking something. Your contrast seems a bit low, usually it's in the mid to upper 80s, but up to you what looks good. Do you notice a difference if you set the PS4 to Limited and the TV to Low?
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post #11 of 20 Old 05-07-2016, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll check on the first thing, but yeah with it set to limited and the tv set to low is exactly the same as setting it to full and setting the tv set to high, which is to say I lose the vibrant colors of having the tv at full and low. They look beautiful so I'm kind of bummed I have to do this.
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-07-2016, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theycallmeloaf View Post
I'll check on the first thing, but yeah with it set to limited and the tv set to low is exactly the same as setting it to full and setting the tv set to high, which is to say I lose the vibrant colors of having the tv at full and low. They look beautiful so I'm kind of bummed I have to do this.
Set color gamut on tv to wide instead of standard. it may give you the boost you saw before.
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post #13 of 20 Old 05-07-2016, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Because it's on PC input and game mode, it's already on wide and greyed out.

https://youtu.be/BjOGm6BUaNQ

This is a good video of how it improves the colors in high/full

Low/limited and high/full look the same as the left. As you can see it looks rather washed out.

https://youtu.be/8NR9xIfeX8o

Here you can see how much it crushes blacks.

I actally pulled up a full greyscale pattern on youtube as opposed to putting in the Blu-ray.

Full/full actually crushes about 90% of greys, again needing 70 on brightness to get 0% to be the only one crushed, but then everything else is way too damn bright.

Merrrhhh
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post #14 of 20 Old 05-07-2016, 10:37 PM
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It's not 'washed out'...it's how the devs coded the game. Get used to it?
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post #15 of 20 Old 05-07-2016, 10:41 PM
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Or use 2.4 gamma. You'll get a little of those 'improved' colors but about the same amount of shadow detail (provided you bump brightness up 2-3 clicks)
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post #16 of 20 Old 05-07-2016, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Other games I noticed are so washed out that it's significantly different than screenshots out for the game. Id say reds specifically that I notice.

I normally use 2.4 but on this input my options are low, medium, high and high 2. Which would be the 2.4 equivalent? Right now it's set on medium.
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post #17 of 20 Old 05-08-2016, 08:39 AM
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High is 2.4 I believe. I don't know if high two corresponds to the B.T1886 gamma that the ISF modes have (not usually recommended on this tv).

Screen shots are usually 'bullshots" with more than a little embellishment in the form of enhancements that aren't present in the final game. Seriously, a game like destiny that has amazing colors is transcendent on this set. In game mode at 2.4 gamma with oled light set to around 85, the game pops with highlights and color saturation that even my 9g black level lowered Kuro plasma can't touch
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post #18 of 20 Old 05-10-2016, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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That did find a happy medium, but I read something here and then googled it for confirmation but with the TV on low black that's actually the limited setting on LG TVS at 16,235 range.

So if the TV is on low (limited) then the ps4 should be on full rgb right?
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post #19 of 20 Old 05-10-2016, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theycallmeloaf View Post
That did find a happy medium, but I read something here and then googled it for confirmation but with the TV on low black that's actually the limited setting on LG TVS at 16,235 range.

So if the TV is on low (limited) then the ps4 should be on full rgb right?
See above: "Full RGB + High or Limited RGB + Low".

You should get better PQ if both sides are using the full RGB 0-255 range, which is the native color gamut for PC/gaming mode.

(If you only wanted to operate as a BluRay player and watch movies, then using limited RGB on both side instead might work better.)

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post #20 of 20 Old 05-15-2016, 07:14 PM
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Here is my go to reference link. It has three examples of how to have your setup done. Post #6 is the one to look for.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...-16-235-a.html
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