Value Electronics 2016 TV Shootout Results - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
I've seen a total of 5 2016 oleds between 2 different best buys, never seen off axis tint on any of them. They don't carry the G6 though. But it must be a panel lottery type thing.
If you've only been watching normal content it would not be as readily seen as with a test pattern. There are NO 2916s anywhere near me in Wisconsin. BB has been putting off store availability from the original date of late April to now showing July 8th. Once they're in I'll be checking. The BB manager already knows I'll be coming......

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post #332 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 10:47 AM
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I don't doubt that the picture exaggerates the color shift from what you see in the real world, but it was what the author saw with his own eyes first, that made him even take the picture, so I don't think that you can totally dismiss it either.

Not saying anything bad about LG or their OLEDs. I want one. Unfortunately for me 65" is too small and I don't have the cashola for their 77" so I'm playing the waiting game. For what or how long I don't know yet...

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post #333 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 11:05 AM
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I think the picture is a fair representation if what I saw. However, to look like that, you have to be really far off axis. I saw that kind of tint if you were in the last couple of rows and at the last seat at the left. I can't imagine anyone sitting like that in the average room. The tint was nowhere near that bad at normal angles.

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post #334 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
The E6 is about the same as the 2015 EF9500. The B6 has discoloration as well so:
1. It's the 3D filter and the B6 has a 3D filter
2. It's the anti glare filter assuming all models have them
3. Pixel structure? Doubtful
4. The meter is lying. Impossible

Can't think of other possibilities but it's early......

This graph is my 55E6P, Grayscale, on axis and 45 degrees off axis.

1) B6 has no 3D filter so you can cross that one off the list. See here.

As they say, the meter doesn't lie (despite what some owners would like to believe). Your 45 degree readings clearly show there is a large blue/green grayscale tint throughout the entire range. Sure it will be harder to see in mixed content but that doesn't change the fact it's there. Try watching a B&W movie and it will be plain to see. Given what's currently on the market, it's still the lesser of the evils but it's unfortunate we no longer have an alternative as good as plasma/crt for off-axis viewing.

We need one of these at the next shootout to provide a reference point by which all other displays are judged.
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post #335 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 11:52 AM
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Once again, my pix shows the issue is not very significant, at least on the B. What the pix show in terms of differences is precisely what I see with my eyes. For me, that's the bottom line. Telling myself it's worse than what my pix or eyes see, is kind of nuts.
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post #336 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 12:58 PM
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I took an actual photo of a G6 showing content in a home environment. Guess I'm gonna' have to do it again in the evening without lighting since no one was phased.
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post #337 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 01:15 PM
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So basically the green off axis shift is not a calibration issue, since the G6 was calibrated for the shootout. IOW, it is what it is.

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post #338 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
I took an actual photo of a G6 showing content in a home environment. Guess I'm gonna' have to do it again in the evening without lighting since no one was phased.
Hey, I tried my photos and some still want to believe what they want to believe. I can understanding the anecdotal stories of people going into BB and saying they don't see the color shift (or find it very minor) as not being sufficient to prove a point, but pictures substantiating what someone is saying? Talk about banging your head against a wall.
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post #339 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Hey, I tried my photos and some still want to believe what they want to believe. I can understanding the anecdotal stories of people going into BB and saying they don't see the color shift (or find it very minor) as not being sufficient to prove a point, but pictures substantiating what someone is saying? Talk about banging your head against a wall.
Maybe I missed it but what pictures did you post that contained any significant grayscale? The content I've seen you post is not going to easily show the problem. Why are we even debating this is beyond me. Can you not read the graphs posted by Buzz? There is a gradual loss of red as you move away from center - that's just how these OLEDs are designed. If that doesn't bother you, that's fine. It does bother some owners who have pointed it out on the owner threads. Depends on your seating, content, and sensitivity to the issue.
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post #340 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Maybe I missed it but what pictures did you post that contained any significant grayscale? The content I've seen you post is not going to easily show the problem. Why are we even debating this is beyond me. Can you not read the graphs posted by Buzz? There is a gradual loss of red as you move away from center - that's just how these OLEDs are designed. If that doesn't bother you, that's fine. It does bother some owners who have pointed it out on the owner threads. Depends on your seating, content, and sensitivity to the issue.
The point is that I don't stare at gray scale pictures. I actually watch content and the content I posted is pretty typical. Watching content rather than gray scale pix, weird, I know.

I am not the only owner of a B unit that's indicated he doesn't see anything like what was at the shootout. There are others. But then again they too might be the oddballs that watch content.

I am NOT saying that off-axis issues don't exist. I AM saying with content, it's not as significant an issue as some think and a whole lot better than LCD. It's exceedingly rare to read of an actual owner complaining of off-axis color issues while watching their OLEDs. If I'm listing issues with OLED, that's way down on the list.
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post #341 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 06:48 PM
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Skin tones are as representative as any of content that will show the green tint off-angle.
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post #342 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Skin tones are as representative as any of content that will show the green tint off-angle.
Here's what is happening. 2nd graph is 45 degrees off axis.


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post #343 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Skin tones are as representative as any of content that will show the green tint off-angle.
That was one of the reasons I picked those 2 shots I posted. 3 different skin tones.

Buzz, any reason my pix are not reflecting the degree of change your charts would imply?

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post #344 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 07:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Here's what is happening. 2nd graph is 45 degrees off axis.

Am I reading this right? On angle, the full saturation green is actually higher (greener) on angle than it is dead on?
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post #345 of 491 Old 06-28-2016, 07:38 PM
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Am I reading this right? On angle, the full saturation green is actually higher (greener) on angle than it is dead on?
You mean Off angle (axis) (or AT an angle). Yes. Everything is moving AWAY from Red.

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post #346 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 07:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
You mean Off angle (axis) (or AT an angle). Yes. Everything is moving AWAY from Red.
I'm actually asking this wrong, my apologies. What you're showing after the CMS has its mits on it, no?

What I was wondering was a "pure" test. Driving the green sub all by itself with the other subs at the low level pulled to zero (no subtle white added nor any other sub as a result of calibration correction, or anything else from the CMS or settings), and then measuring what happens to the green at two angles. This would be interesting, particularly if done at full blast.

Repeat this for each of the other subs (including white, if it's possible to turn on by itself), and we would have an interesting clue (cleaner data) as to what is happening.
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post #347 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I'm actually asking this wrong, my apologies. What you're showing after the CMS has its mits on it, no?

What I was wondering was a "pure" test. Driving the green sub all by itself with the other subs at the low level pulled to zero (no subtle white added nor any other sub as a result of calibration correction, or anything else from the CMS or settings), and then measuring what happens to the green at two angles. This would be interesting, particularly if done at full blast.

Repeat this for each of the other subs (including white, if it's possible to turn on by itself), and we would have an interesting clue (cleaner data) as to what is happening.
In all honesty I have no idea what you're talking about.

If by "full blast" you're referring to measuring a pure Green pattern, that has already been accomplished and is shown on the graph.

Also on the graph you can see how the White point has moved. It's the little half moon shape under the 25% Cyan box.

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post #348 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 11:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
In all honesty I have no idea what you're talking about.

If by "full blast" you're referring to measuring a pure Green pattern, that has already been accomplished and is shown on the graph.

Also on the graph you can see how the White point has moved. It's the little half moon shape under the 25% Cyan box.
Taking this to PM.
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post #349 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 11:55 AM
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So, people are more concerned about color shift at 45 degrees than the fact they're viewing a trapezoid instead of a rectangle? I don't care how good the colors are off to the sides, the image will look bad no matter what.
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post #350 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 02:39 PM
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What color shift?




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What color shift?



I'm focusing on the white jersey/shorts/elbow sleeve, which to me would be the worst case scenario for any color shift, and I see no hint of it whatsoever. Sure the screenshots are on the cool side, but most likely camera based.

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post #352 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
I'm focusing on the white jersey/shorts/elbow sleeve, which to me would be the worst case scenario for any color shift, and I see no hint of it whatsoever. Sure the screenshots are on the cool side, but most likely camera based.
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post #353 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 03:21 PM
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What color shift?



I know camera shots are tough to judge this kind of thing, but the court on the left side of the image sure looks purple to me whereas is doesn't on the head on picture. The same with the number 8. More purple. Well off axis to be sure but I see a clear issue there.
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post #354 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 03:27 PM
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^ However, how many people watch at this extreme angle? The geometry issues would bother me far more than the color shift issues. I for one would never watch at this angle with any display device of any tech.

So more importantly, the color shift is far less than this as you move to anything approaching a more normal viewing position.

The set of pix I posted a couple of pages back, was also quite a bit off-axis, but a bit less than what's shown above. Mine showed virtually no color shift.
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post #355 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
I know camera shots are tough to judge this kind of thing, but the court on the left side of the image sure looks purple to me whereas is doesn't on the head on picture. The same with the number 8. More purple. Well off axis to be sure but I see a clear issue there.
Well, let me show you the same angle from my Vizio P50 c1 and you will fall out of your chair...lol
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post #356 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 03:40 PM
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Drew, you posted the pics claiming there was no color shift. Sorry there is. I agree that I can't imagine watching any tv at that angle. Ken doesn't seem to have this issue. Not sure why some sets seem to be worse than others but I think it would be nice to find out what is causing it. I am glad that Ken is happy with his OLED. When Ken is happy, I am happy.

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post #357 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 03:53 PM
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^ Well to be fair, I wouldn't say mine is devoid of the issue. If I went far enough off-axis and with a full gray field, you'd see it. But with normal content at anything approaching normal viewing angle, there's no issue. I'd bet even Drew's unit, at somewhat less severe angles, also would show virtually no shift.

But I'm really happy you're happy...it makes me even happier.
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post #358 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:04 PM
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Wouldn't be good the find out what is causing this? Is it an issue with LG's tech or their manufacturing or their processing and whether is can be eliminated?

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post #359 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:05 PM
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^ Well to be fair, I wouldn't say mine is devoid of the issue. If I went far enough off-axis and with a full gray field, you'd see it. But with normal content at anything approaching normal viewing angle, there's no issue. I'd bet even Drew's unit, at somewhat less severe angles, also would show virtually no shift.

But I'm really happy you're happy...it makes me even happier.
I do have my limits though Ken,

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post #360 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
What color shift?
Why don't you folks try stuff like a full white screen? Wizziwig posted some off-axis picks of the B6. With normal content off axis color shift will be more subtle/ is more difficult to notice so why post it?.

nn
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