Value Electronics 2016 TV Shootout Results - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
I know camera shots are tough to judge this kind of thing, but the court on the left side of the image sure looks purple to me whereas is doesn't on the head on picture. The same with the number 8. More purple. Well off axis to be sure but I see a clear issue there.
Thanks, now I can't unsee the slight color shift on those items.

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post #362 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Why don't you folks try stuff like a full white screen? Wizziwig posted some off-axis picks of the B6. With normal content off axis color shift will be more subtle/ is more difficult to notice so why post it?.
Why? Because oddly enough people watch content as opposed to full white or gray screens. So even if I was a prospective owner, I'd want to know how the TV performs with actual content.

Does anyone actually watch content anymore or is it just 5% & 100% slides?
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post #363 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:19 PM
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It is visible on content. Don't slides to see it. I have yet to see it head on on content or slides.

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post #364 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Why don't you folks try stuff like a full white screen? Wizziwig posted some off-axis picks of the B6. With normal content off axis color shift will be more subtle/ is more difficult to notice so why post it?.

nn
Yeah that's almost LCD/LED like. I think the truth lies between this picture and the one Drew posted. It just can't be THAT bad.
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post #365 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Wouldn't be good the find out what is causing this? Is it an issue with LG's tech or their manufacturing or their processing and whether is can be eliminated?
Samsung OLEDs have same problem too I believe. I'm reading avs on galaxy s6 and it has color shift on it too. I think the samsung TV had it as well and their tablets.
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post #366 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jason626 View Post
Samsung OLEDs have same problem too I believe. I'm reading avs on galaxy s6 and it has color shift on it too. I think the samsung TV had it as well and their tablets.
Confirmed my S7 Edge does the same thing, right now as I type this.

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post #367 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:51 PM
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On Thursday, June 30, 2016, Home Theater Geeks will be all about the shootout; my guests will be Robert Zohn and Joel Silver. The show records from 2-3 PM (roughly) Pacific time (5-6 PM Eastern time), and you can watch live at live.twit.tv. You can also join the chat room from there by clicking on the "Live Chat" tab, or you can go to irc.twit.tv. If you join the chat room, you can post questions for any of my guests; I'll be monitoring the chat room during the show and pass on as many relevant (and respectful) questions as I can.

I hope you can join us for what is sure to be a very interesting conversation!
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post #368 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Why? Because oddly enough people watch content as opposed to full white or gray screens. So even if I was a prospective owner, I'd want to know how the TV performs with actual content.

Does anyone actually watch content anymore or is it just 5% & 100% slides?
I am convinced some people here watch their TV with lab coats on.

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post #369 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 05:05 PM
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i am convinced some people here watch their tv with lab coats on.
lmao

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post #370 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 05:40 PM
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I am convinced some people here watch their TV with lab coats on.
Am I allowed to watch any other way?
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post #371 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason626 View Post
Samsung OLEDs have same problem too I believe. I'm reading avs on galaxy s6 and it has color shift on it too. I think the samsung TV had it as well and their tablets.
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Confirmed my S7 Edge does the same thing, right now as I type this.


Just checked my S6 and at an angle it does turn blue/green. Stupid viewing angles!! I want my money back.
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post #372 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 05:46 PM
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[quote=Jason626;45059266]Samsung OLEDs have same problem too I believe. I'm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
On Thursday, June 30, 2016, Home Theater Geeks will be all about the shootout; my guests will be Robert Zohn, Joel Silver, and Mark Henninger. The show records from 2-3 PM (roughly) Pacific time (5-6 PM Eastern time), and you can watch live at live.twit.tv. You can also join the chat room from there by clicking on the "Live Chat" tab, or you can go to irc.twit.tv. If you join the chat room, you can post questions for any of my guests; I'll be monitoring the chat room during the show and pass on as many relevant (and respectful) questions as I can.

I hope you can join us for what is sure to be a very interesting conversation!


What a great idea. This should be very interesting, can't wait. I hope Robert brings the measurement stats from all the tvs (wink wink).
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post #373 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 05:49 PM
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I am convinced some people here watch their TV with lab coats on.
I do along with my pocket liner filled with a few pens.

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post #374 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 05:51 PM
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I will try to watch it live Scott.

Louder is NOT better!
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post #375 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 05:51 PM
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^ However, how many people watch at this extreme angle? The geometry issues would bother me far more than the color shift issues. I for one would never watch at this angle with any display device of any tech.

So more importantly, the color shift is far less than this as you move to anything approaching a more normal viewing position.

The set of pix I posted a couple of pages back, was also quite a bit off-axis, but a bit less than what's shown above. Mine showed virtually no color shift.
The shift is there even at smallish off axis viewing positions. You might have to look hard while viewing normal content but it is undeniably there.

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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Why don't you folks try stuff like a full white screen? Wizziwig posted some off-axis picks of the B6. With normal content off axis color shift will be more subtle/ is more difficult to notice so why post it?.
Very obvious.

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Why? Because oddly enough people watch content as opposed to full white or gray screens. So even if I was a prospective owner, I'd want to know how the TV performs with actual content.

Does anyone actually watch content anymore or is it just 5% & 100% slides?
You've been making the same type argument ever since the Elite Cyan tracking came to the forefront (and please do not repeat your "I discovered it" spiel).

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Yeah that's almost LCD/LED like. I think the truth lies between this picture and the one Drew posted. It just can't be THAT bad.
Yeah, it's that bad. Both my EF9500 and E6P are about the same off axis. I watch on axis so I don't care. All I've been doing is reporting the facts.
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post #376 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 06:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
I know camera shots are tough to judge this kind of thing, but the court on the left side of the image sure looks purple to me whereas is doesn't on the head on picture. The same with the number 8. More purple. Well off axis to be sure but I see a clear issue there.
Sure, but in this particular case there's also the fact that it's in a lit room, and we don't know what's in the rest of the room. I wouldn't count on 45° and 0° to reflect the same things (the room is different) and I wouldn't count on 45° and 0° to reflect the same way anyway.

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post #377 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 06:30 PM
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It is visible on content. Don't slides to see it. I have yet to see it head on on content or slides.
Apparently it's a variable issue. Yes it can be seen on some displays at varying angles. With that said, my pix shot off-axis, don't show it with content.

As I've said before, this would be way down the list of issues for me.
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post #378 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 06:37 PM
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Just checked my S6 and at an angle it does turn blue/green. Stupid viewing angles!! I want my money back.
You think that's bad, I just checked my Sony 940c and I when I go into another room and close the door, I can't see the Sony anymore! Talk about lousy viewing angles. REFUND!!!
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post #379 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 06:46 PM
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The shift is there even at smallish off axis viewing positions. You might have to look hard while viewing normal content but it is undeniably there.
At normal viewing angles, I sure don't see it and my pix prove I'm not imagining it. I posted the pix for one reason, to show that not everyone who says they don't notice it is crazy or ill-informed. So if it's there, it's so minimal as to escape detection. I can't recall any recent OLED owner complaining of this at normal viewing angles.

I don't think most people are denying that there is a shift under certain conditions and viewing angles, but I think many are saying it's not of the magnitude that some may think it is. That's all.

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You've been making the same type argument ever since the Elite Cyan tracking came to the forefront (and please do not repeat your "I discovered it" spiel).
I repeat that 'spiel' to show that I am not in denial about issues that exist in my own equipment. Believe it or not, not every current AVS member is aware of what happened.
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post #380 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 07:05 PM
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I repeat that 'spiel' to show that I am not in denial about issues that exist in my own equipment. Believe it or not, not every current AVS member is aware of what happened.
I understand that, but your "revelation" was well known to all calibrators. You really ought to spring for a meter and find out what it's all about, Ken.

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post #381 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 07:06 PM
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I understand that, but your "revelation" was well known to all calibrators. You really ought to spring for a meter and find out what it's all about, Ken.
I don't bother since I let the professional calibrators do my calibrations. As far as my 'revelations' being well known to all calibrators, they weren't posting that information in the Sharp Elite threads until after I first mentioned it.

At this point that's water under the bridge.
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post #382 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 07:16 PM
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I'll just add that, IMO, people would be much better served discussing the issues that are actually bothering some owners, despite the improvements from 2015 models:

* Screen uniformity issues
* Vignetting issues
* Near black issues
* Apps that don't retain their settings upon exiting

These things are far far more bothersome to owners than 'off-axis' issues. I simply can't recall owners yelling about off-axis color shifts, but I can tell you of many owners going through frequent exchanges because of a few of the issues I just mentioned.
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post #383 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I'll just add that, IMO, people would be much better served discussing the issues that are actually bothering some owners, despite the improvements from 2015 models:

* Screen uniformity issues
* Vignetting issues
* Near black issues
* Apps that don't retain their settings upon exiting

These things are far far more bothersome to owners than 'off-axis' issues. I simply can't recall owners yelling about off-axis color shifts, but I can tell you of many owners going through frequent exchanges because of a few of the issues I just mentioned.
I guess I might add motion as an issue that some are having but for the most part the only issue that may reach the threshold of any seriousness with most content is still living with some black crush. Now if you want to tell me that's no biggie I'm fine with that.

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post #384 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I'll just add that, IMO, people would be much better served discussing the issues that are actually bothering some owners, despite the improvements from 2015 models:

* Screen uniformity issues
* Vignetting issues
* Near black issues
* Apps that don't retain their settings upon exiting

These things are far far more bothersome to owners than 'off-axis' issues. I simply can't recall owners yelling about off-axis color shifts, but I can tell you of many owners going through frequent exchanges because of a few of the issues I just mentioned.
I've never seen uniformity issues in content with my EF or my E6, although I must admit that the 55EF is a better display than the 65.....
I see vignetting about once a month in my EF, no such thing in the E6.
Near black "issues" can be 99.9% eliminated with the right tools.
App settings are something that 1 in 10,000 owners would even consider changing in the first place.

The color shift from white to blue, however, is definitely a concern. The local BestBuy "promises" that they be getting some 2016s (so far none) in July sometime and they're waiting for me to come in and take a critical look. Even the manager wants to know the truth.

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post #385 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 08:02 PM
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Well Buzz, we'll just agree to disagree on this. You may not see these issues, but others do. I do. I have vignetting and posted a 5% picture that showed it. Fortunately it seldom manifests itself, but on occasion it does. The panel lottery is alive and well, so because you don't have a given issue doesn't mean someone else won't. I've seen some ugly pix from some 2016 OLEDs regardless of model. I never see the color shift issue because I watch TV at normal viewing angles. That's why it's way down on the list of complaints you see in owner threads.

A simple tracking of people swapping out their displays has never shown anyone doing it for the color shift. However most do swap because of uniformity issues. That's just a fact.

As for adjusting apps, I suspect owners of OLEDs are far more likely to do so than your 1 in 10,000. Certainly AVS guys do and it's a growing complaint, again, far more than the color shift. To have to readjust all your Amazon settings every time you change movies or re-enter the app, is one royal PIA.
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post #386 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 08:05 PM
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You may not experience uniformity anomalies, but plenty in the forum have. It's the basic PQ settings within Amazon Video that change when even switching to another program or episode, which is a pretty big deal especially if you want an optimized picture without having to enter the settings manually every time.

I can actually remember one owner who switched out his display because of the color shift off-axis, shortly after the first panels shipped (late March). It's still not a problem at the top of the complaint list.
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post #387 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 08:15 PM
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Well Buzz, we'll just agree to disagree on this. You may not see these issues, but others do. I do. I have vignetting and posted a 5% picture that showed it. You, the man who looks at content and not patterns? lol ok....

Fortunately it seldom manifests itself, but on occasion it does. The panel lottery is alive and well, so because you don't have a given issue doesn't mean someone else won't. I've seen some ugly pix from some 2016 OLEDs regardless of model. I never see the color shift issue because I watch TV at normal viewing angles. That's why it's way down on the list of complaints you see in owner threads. The more it's mentioned, the more it will be seen. It's undeniable. I first showed it in post number 2 of the EF9500 owners thread last fall. Nothing has changed. Nothing!

A simple tracking of people swapping out their displays has never shown anyone doing it for the color shift. However most do swap because of uniformity issues. That's just a fact.

As for adjusting apps, I suspect owners of OLEDs are far more likely to do so than your 1 in 10,000. Certainly AVS guys do and it's a growing complaint, again, far more than the color shift. The "AVS guys" ARE the 1 in 10,000. To have to readjust all your Amazon settings every time you change movies or re-enter the app, is one royal PIA.

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post #388 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 08:54 PM
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There's a difference between looking at a test pattern and obsessing over it. Seeing it in content made me check to verify what I was seeing. Is that OK? BTW, you can check my vignetting pix, I posted it...just in case you doubt it since 'yours' doesn't have the issue.

I'm not sure how the color shift will be seen more, regardless of how much it's discussed, when people are watching at a normal viewing angle. Once again my pix prove what I'm saying. Perhaps there is a variation in this issue from display to display, but since owners are not complaining about it, that may not be the case. You seem to determine what's important and not important based on what your particular displays are like. I'm sorry, but each display and its issues can be different.
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post #389 of 491 Old 06-29-2016, 09:04 PM
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There's a difference between looking at a test pattern and obsessing over it. Seeing it in content made me check to verify what I was seeing. Is that OK? BTW, you can check my vignetting pix, I posted it...just in case you doubt it since 'yours' doesn't have the issue.

I'm not sure how the color shift will be seen more, regardless of how much it's discussed, when people are watching at a normal viewing angle. The entire problem is off axis, nothing more than that.

Once again my pix prove what I'm saying. Perhaps there is a variation in this issue from display to display, but since owners are not complaining about it, that may not be the case. You seem to determine what's important and not important based on what your particular displays are like. I'm sorry, but each display and its issues can be different. Yes, and like I've repeated a few times, my local retailers do not have, nor have they ever had, any 2016 LG OLEDs. When they finally get them I'll be checking all of their display models out. I seriously believe they all have the same off axis problem and I doubt "panel lottery" will play a part.

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post #390 of 491 Old 06-30-2016, 01:12 AM
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Buzz...about how many degrees off axis before it starts showing up? It seems that I've heard the number 20 degrees throw around but I'd like to hear from you.
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