I want a Panasonic TC-P65VT25! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 06-29-2016, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Exclamation I want a Panasonic TC-P65VT25!

I've been interested in owning a top-of-the-line 65" 3D Panasonic plasma, especially a TC-P65VT25 - although I would take a TC-P65VT30, TC-P65VT50, TC-P65VT60, or TC-P65ZT60, but I can't find what I want, locally. Long story short the VT25 (2010 model) has nostalgic value to me. The only thing I'm worried about are the floating and rising blacks, but apparently someone created a device that resests the MLL. So, should I keep trying to find this model, and if so what is a reasonable price?
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post #2 of 17 Old 06-30-2016, 01:21 AM
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If you lived near me, you could have my TC-P65VT30. I switched to OLED and I'm not going back...and that especially pertains to 3D viewing.
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post #3 of 17 Old 06-30-2016, 04:45 AM
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Ironically, I just purchased an OLED as well yesterday and the TC-P65VT25 is the very TV I'm upgrading from. I totally understand the desire to have it as well, it's become my "old faithful". But yeah, if you lived closer, we probably could've talked (assuming all goes with my OLED in terms of no issues).

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post #4 of 17 Old 06-30-2016, 05:37 AM
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I actually just "downgraded" from an EF9500 OLED to a Panasonic VT60 (mostly due to recouping money for a sudden relocation). Leaving out 4k/HDR since I don't need or want those features yet (waiting another year or two for the market to mature), I can honestly say, and this is entirely my videophile opinion, I like the VT60 better. Yes, the OLED has an infinite contrast due to absolute black, and yes it can get a lot brighter but considering I calibrate to 40fL anyways (which the VT60 can hit in Mid Panel Brightness mode), the only drawback I have noticed so far is lack of absolute black. That being said, the lack of any screen uniformity issues and absolutely zero banding issues, along with near black shadow detail, have made me instantly cherish getting this VT60. If someone approached me right now and offered a new 2016 OLED (like a B6 or C6) for my VT60 straight up...I would keep my plasma. Just my opinion.

All that said, you should really check eBay for a ST/VT/ZT60 series. While they may not be local, I did a lot of price shopping and if the seller is reasonable for their asking amount, freight shipping was averaging around $200-300 max. I lucked out and found a seller three hours away so I made the drive.

Good luck!
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post #5 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 11:12 AM
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The VT 25 was not that good.
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post #6 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I actually just "downgraded" from an EF9500 OLED to a Panasonic VT60 (mostly due to recouping money for a sudden relocation). Leaving out 4k/HDR since I don't need or want those features yet (waiting another year or two for the market to mature), I can honestly say, and this is entirely my videophile opinion, I like the VT60 better. Yes, the OLED has an infinite contrast due to absolute black, and yes it can get a lot brighter but considering I calibrate to 40fL anyways (which the VT60 can hit in Mid Panel Brightness mode), the only drawback I have noticed so far is lack of absolute black. That being said, the lack of any screen uniformity issues and absolutely zero banding issues, along with near black shadow detail, have made me instantly cherish getting this VT60. If someone approached me right now and offered a new 2016 OLED (like a B6 or C6) for my VT60 straight up...I would keep my plasma. Just my opinion.
I owned a ZT60 and can't really agree with that assessment. Like I was remarking with much consternation in the EF9500 thread (frowned upon by a few protective individuals), the 2016 OLED lineup is a huge improvement uniformity-wise. No, it's not reached the grayscale level of perfection of the final flagship plasmas from Panasonic, Pioneer, and Samsung, but what it gets right it does so from great heights.
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post #7 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
No, it's not reached the grayscale level of perfection of the final flagship plasmas from Panasonic, Pioneer, and Samsung, but what it gets right it does so from great heights.
That was my main point though. If someone said they either wanted the best *new* TV or wanted to upgrade to 4k, I would point them to the 2016 OLED's. They are the best OLED's yet and are close to closing the uniformity gap. But they still haven't. They have much better brightness and 3D, absolute black (so better contrast ratio by far), and the colors can really pop due to said brightness. But the end-life plasma's still trounce them in uniformity and shadow detail, which FOR ME, were the two biggest negatives of my EF9500 and the two biggest positives of my VT60. Plus colors can be calibrated for near perfect accuracy with the VT60...from what I have read CMS implementation is still wonky at best with the LG's.

I won't talk someone into digging for a used plasma but if someone is already open to the idea, I will share with them my experience. I love black levels. Have always put them top of my list...but it's hard to appreciate absolute black (for me) when there is banding, however slight, or when you lose shadow detail. Sure you can get better contrast but you lose detail. Would I rather see all of the detail in the picture at the expense of blacks being a little light or have absolute blacks but lose detail and introduce non-uniformity in certain scenes? I prefer having all the detail with non of the uniformity issues.

Obviously contrast is one of the biggest influences on overall picture quality...but I think in the pursuit of reaching infinite contrast ratio people are forgiving obvious faults by marking them as subtle trade-offs rather than obvious negatives.

Last edited by BigCoolJesus; 07-02-2016 at 11:42 AM.
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post #8 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 11:45 AM
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90% of the time (and I'm being conservative with that total), the banding is invisible. I guess if I had a nearby reference showing potential loss of detail near black, that factor might bother me more.

I take it you've been able to spend some time with one of the 2016 models to reach your conclusions?
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post #9 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
90% of the time (and I'm being conservative with that total), the banding is invisible. I guess if I had a nearby reference showing potential loss of detail near black, that factor might bother me more.

I take it you've been able to spend some time with one of the 2016 models to reach your conclusions?
90% of the time isn't the same as 100% of the time. I'm not bashing OLED. It's the best available on the market today. But it does have drawbacks. I loved my EF9500 each day I had it but at the same time loathed the fact I had to try and forget I saw a band for a total of 1 minute of a movie despite the other 90+ minutes being fantastic. Is that nit picking? Sure, but for spending $2k+, it's expected. And my panel was deemed a keeper after posting pictures according to consensus in the forums.

Again, you don't have to convince me on the strengths of OLED...I know exactly what they are. But I also won't overlook the weakness' just because the TV can do absolute black/infinite contrast. Just giving my personal opinion now that I have owned OLED and have a last gen plasma. I'll take complete detail in near black content at the expense of a slightly elevated (0.001cdm2) black level over absolute black level at the expense of losing detail near black any day of the week now that I have seen both in action. The peace of mind that I can now get rid of all my 1-5% IRE slides is just pure icing on the cake
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post #10 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 01:47 PM
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All I can say is 2016 was purported to be a big improvement by LG in the realm of QC and uniformity at CES, and I have found that to be true. I would humbly recommend not assuming that the 2016 models look no better than your former EF9500. After what I experienced with the EF9500 and the photos I've seen of many others, I just couldn't be bothered with keeping it or going for exchanges. The banding problem is at least improved by 75%. The IR magnetism, power usage, heat production, and dimness of those Panasonics I don't miss. The only thing I can honestly say I very occasionally miss is the perfect graysale. The added brightness for a great room is icing on the cake.
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post #11 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 02:13 PM
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I would humbly recommend not assuming that the 2016 models look no better than your former EF9500.
I don't assume that. I 100% acknowledge the 2016 models have improved over the 2015 models. But they are still not *there* yet for uniformity and banding, as you even pointed out.

It's not bashing or misleading. It's just stating an obvious and known negative of the OLED panels still. No biggie for most. A biggie for me that I'm loving not having to put up with. And the shadow detail I'm loving too

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post #12 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 02:37 PM
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As far as the OP goes, I'd only recommend a 2013 (60 series) Panasonic or 8500 series Samsung if he really wants the best plasma possible. They can definitely be had for a fair price on eBay if you get rate quotes for shipping.

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post #13 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 03:41 PM
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You caught me. I hope they can get to 100% uniformity some day. I just don't know if that's possible with a zero luminance emissive tech.
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post #14 of 17 Old 07-02-2016, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
You caught me. I hope they can get to 100% uniformity some day. I just don't know if that's possible with a zero luminance emissive tech.
From what I've read in the 2016 thread...if they can bump up uniformity just a little more and then throw all attention to perfecting near black they'll be set IMO.

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post #15 of 17 Old 10-10-2016, 08:32 AM
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Panasonic TC-P65VT25 65" Class Viera VT25

are you still interested in the Panasonic TC-P65VT25 65" Class Viera VT25. I am upgrading and selling mine. the only thing i cannot verify is the last 2 numbers, where can i locate them on the TV. ?
Anyway, i'm posting it on Kijiji today and i'm located in Toronto.
Best to email me direct
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post #16 of 17 Old 10-10-2016, 04:34 PM
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i have the e6p oled 65 ,a zt60 65 and a tweaked krp 500m .the zt has the best natural looking picture of the 3 .the oled the most dynamic ,and the krp falls somewhere between the 2. but if i was rating them , the oled wins the stuff it does great, blows the other 2 away . yes it has its flaws motion at times ,i have a band i see here and there ,because my ocd looks for it . and id even say the krp is 2 ,followed by the zt60 . and mind u the only one calibrated is the zt ,as of now
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post #17 of 17 Old 10-10-2016, 05:14 PM
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Vt 25 was bad with it's rising blacks. You can have my super low hour 60vt60 if you pick it up.

Also the VT30 was not that great. Once Panny got to the VT60's they were close to my Kuro.

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