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post #391 of 2599 Old 10-17-2016, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Hey I am only using the AVS disc for the 0% black near black slide. I am using the file from the first post to see 17. That's on my thumb drive. I don't have the WOW disc. I never once saw it in this thread that this luminance thing is supposed to wash out the picture. I thought buzzard was saying he could adjust luminance up to 50 and still have it not be washed out?
I can try 51 brightness with my luminance at +13 but 52 is the correct setting according to that 0% near black slides. That's where my tv no longer has a glow and the black velvet blends in to the screen.

So you're telling me that if you put on Harry Potter goblet, that opening scene with the snake in the graveyard is washed out? People's faces are washed out?
The "washed out" look may be exactly the way the director wanted, instead of the crushed look that OLED produces. When you adjust the luminance, you are trying to get the near blacks to look similar to plasma or LCD. In other words, you will see more detail in the near blacks. The director is looking at these movies on professional monitors, not capable of reaching absolute black, thus what they are seeing will look elevated to you on OLED. If you don't like it, don't adjust the luminance. These are all just suggestions to bring out near black detail. By making the adjustments, you are lowering near black gamma, instead of having a flat 2.4 from 0 to 100%. You have to remember, 0% on a plasma looks about the same as a 1 to 2% slide on OLED. That's why detail in the near blacks can be seen better on plasma. Instead of near black detail on OLED being close to 0%, you are trying to get near black to look closer to 1 to 2%, which would mimic plasma.

Last edited by wxman; 10-17-2016 at 01:08 AM.
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post #392 of 2599 Old 10-17-2016, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
The "washed out" look may be exactly the way the director wanted, instead of the crushed look that OLED produces. When you adjust the luminance, you are trying to get the near blacks to look similar to plasma or LCD. In other words, you will see more detail in the near blacks. The director is looking at these movies on professional monitors, not capable of reaching absolute black, thus what they are seeing will look elevated to you on OLED.
Do you own or does anyone else own the Harry Potter movies? If so can you put on the goblet of Fire and turn on the opening scene? The introduction with Warner Brothers logo is a pretty grey screen and then right after with the snake in the graveyard if I put the luminance up to where I see 17, it's overly bright to the point where it's super washed out. At the end of the opening scene there are graves with names on them. If I have my brightness just at 52 with 0 luminance I can clearly read the names. With +13 luminance it makes it so overly bright and washed out that I can barely read the names.

Then if I watch other night scenes like the one in the fourth chapter where Harry and Hermione and Ron are talking to Barry Crouch about who conjured the dark mark. You can really see how washed out they're here. Their skin looks overly bright to the point that's super washed out and "smooth." It just looks unnatural.

If I out luminance at 0 on that scene their faces look normal and not washed out at all. I really want to get to the bottom of this because I bought the Black velvet so I could fix the black scenes.

I understand the producer might make it so there is some grey in dark scenes but I cannot imagine the characters are supposed to have washed out faces.

I would really like someone to test this movie because I honestly don't know what's it supposed to look like. I have an LCD but it might not show a true representation of the movie either.

Either my tv is broken or I'm doing something wrong or both. It would really help if someone could put this movie in that has messed with this luminance setting.
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post #393 of 2599 Old 10-17-2016, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Hey I am only using the AVS disc for the 0% black near black slide. I am using the file from the first post to see 17. That's on my thumb drive. I don't have the WOW disc. I never once saw it in this thread that this luminance thing is supposed to wash out the picture. I thought buzzard was saying he could adjust luminance up to 50 and still have it not be washed out?
I can try 51 brightness with my luminance at +13 but 52 is the correct setting according to that 0% near black slides. That's where my tv no longer has a glow and the black velvet blends in to the screen.

So you're telling me that if you put on Harry Potter goblet
, that opening scene with the snake in the graveyard is washed out? People's faces are washed out?
Changing low end gamma should have no effect on any gamma response above 7 or 8% and should not "wash out" anything. Try some different content as all of your comments are based on one scene in one movie. Also, why not pause that Potter scene, adjust 5% luminance up and down, and see what happens?

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Last edited by buzzard767; 10-17-2016 at 05:49 AM.
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post #394 of 2599 Old 10-17-2016, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Do you own or does anyone else own the Harry Potter movies? If so can you put on the goblet of Fire and turn on the opening scene? The introduction with Warner Brothers logo is a pretty grey screen and then right after with the snake in the graveyard if I put the luminance up to where I see 17, it's overly bright to the point where it's super washed out. At the end of the opening scene there are graves with names on them. If I have my brightness just at 52 with 0 luminance I can clearly read the names. With +13 luminance it makes it so overly bright and washed out that I can barely read the names.

Then if I watch other night scenes like the one in the fourth chapter where Harry and Hermione and Ron are talking to Barry Crouch about who conjured the dark mark. You can really see how washed out they're here. Their skin looks overly bright to the point that's super washed out and "smooth." It just looks unnatural.

If I out luminance at 0 on that scene their faces look normal and not washed out at all. I really want to get to the bottom of this because I bought the Black velvet so I could fix the black scenes.

I understand the producer might make it so there is some grey in dark scenes but I cannot imagine the characters are supposed to have washed out faces.

I would really like someone to test this movie because I honestly don't know what's it supposed to look like. I have an LCD but it might not show a true representation of the movie either.

Either my tv is broken or I'm doing something wrong or both. It would really help if someone could put this movie in that has messed with this luminance setting.
I watched the same Harry Potter scene on Blu-ray this morning and in my opinion, it's a terrible scene/movie to use for testing. Watching this scene on not just my OLED but also on a Panny ST55 the graveyard scene is full of a lot of noise and blocky blacks (like a really bad DirecTV stream quality). This immediately points to the issue being the movie. I would not judge my settings based on it. I just saw there are new Bluray versions being released, so maybe these new ones will have better video encoding. You need a scene of better quality. The Dark Knight is a great choice.

Also, you need to accept that this near black tweak is preference and not reference. There is no set rule to follow. Adjust the settings based on what YOU like.

And when you say you can see 17, how visible is it? IMO, 17 needs to be barely visible. If you can see it clearly from your seating or without much effort to adjust to lighting conditions, luminance is probably too high. But again, this is all subjective and no set rule or goal exists. To each their own.

Set it how YOU like and what looks good to YOU. And forget it.

EDIT:
Here is a description of the Bluray quality of Goblet of Fire
Quote:
While picture detail and definition is strong, the overall resolution has taken a step back from the more dynamic imagery of The Prisoner of Azkaban. Digital manipulation appears to have dynamically squashed the picture a bit, and depth suffers. This is especially true where significant CGI imagery is used. The effects are impressive, and rendered with great care. But the cost is the absence of gorgeously defined, palpable imagery that 1080p is capable of delivering. Another factor is the slight aqua green tint in many of the computer-generated scenes. It almost looks as if a translucent film of toothpaste was applied to the screen. For example, watch Harry fend off the dragon during the first challenge in the wizards' competition. When Harry and the dragon take to the skies, the picture seems ever-so-slightly obscured by a green tint. The aqua green is gone during the brighter scenes which, not surprisingly, show superior depth and presence.
Just a reminder that even when watching a 1080p Bluray, not all content is created or mastered equally.

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post #395 of 2599 Old 10-17-2016, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Changing low end gamma should have no effect on any gamma response above 7 or 8% and should not "wash out" anything. Try some different content as all of your comments are based on one scene in one movie. Also, why not pause that Potter scene, adjust 5% luminance up and down, and see what happens?
Hey buzz thanks for the reply. I actually tried that first. So I went and tried a better reference material like the Dark Knight. Try the scene right after the window shadow detail you posted in chapter 2 with the guy in the car talking to the other guy at 6:41 time stamp pause the movie. As you add any luminance it brightens the dark spots of his beard to the point that it looks washed out and smoothed over like a filter would do to a Facebook photo.

The positive is that the luminance adds more definition to his ear but then smoothes his face out in the process.

Also on really bad content like Netflix Gotham s1 episode 1, if you adjust the luminance up it makes the pixelated and blocky background even worse. I also watched Halloween 1 on blu ray and it makes the already grainy movie greyed and way more grainer with the luminance adjustment.

Is this how it's supposed to be? Do you still use luminance adjustment with poor filmed sources? Does 52 brightness sound around the ballpark for 81 contrast and 32 oled light? I used the velvet and that's what I ended on with a 0% near black slide.


All in all I definitely see the more detail that the luminance adjustment brings out but is it supposed to be at this big of a cost where it smooths things out like the camera filters on our cell phones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I watched the same Harry Potter scene on Blu-ray this morning and in my opinion, it's a terrible scene/movie to use for testing. Watching this scene on not just my OLED but also on a Panny ST55 the graveyard scene is full of a lot of noise and blocky blacks (like a really bad DirecTV stream quality). This immediately points to the issue being the movie. I would not judge my settings based on it. I just saw there are new Bluray versions being released, so maybe these new ones will have better video encoding. You need a scene of better quality. The Dark Knight is a great choice.

Also, you need to accept that this near black tweak is preference and not reference. There is no set rule to follow. Adjust the settings based on what YOU like.

And when you say you can see 17, how visible is it? IMO, 17 needs to be barely visible. If you can see it clearly from your seating or without much effort to adjust to lighting conditions, luminance is probably too high. But again, this is all subjective and no set rule or goal exists. To each their own.

Set it how YOU like and what looks good to YOU. And forget it.

EDIT:
Here is a description of the Bluray quality of Goblet of Fire


Just a reminder that even when watching a 1080p Bluray, not all content is created or mastered equally.
Hey thanks for your reply. I definitely understand that source material is a big factor but see my reply to buzz above and try out that scene on your set as well on the dark knight. On my set it brought out a lot more detail in his ear that I could not see but at the cost of overly smoothing the guys face that you lost detail in his beard since it was so bright.

What do you do for Netflix material since it's mostly garbage? If I add luminance to the poor source it just brings it out wayyyy more. Looks at the opening scene of Gotham s1 episode 1 if you have it on Netflix. It makes things super blocky and pixelated and brings out the horrid stuff hiding if I just use oled light 32, contrast 81, and brightness 52 with no luminance adjustment.

Also, when I found 17, I did it so I could barely, in the slightest see it in a completely black room, at least for my movie room in my loft. My luminance +13 adjustment is correct even on that scene that Buzzard posted of the dark knight windows. The windows aren't fully detailed until I adjust luminance to +13.

I realize this method isn't reference. I have just put a lot of time into it and money into the black velvet so I figured I would try to get 17 to show.

So if I don't end up figuring out this luminance thing, what brightness should I settle on? Meaning one that just shows 19 but not 17 or 18 which would be 53 on my set or the one where everything is black from 16 down, which would be 52?

Thanks again for all of your help and sorry if I'm being a major PITA.
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post #396 of 2599 Old 10-18-2016, 07:51 AM
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Can someone help me do this below:

2A) On LG 2016 OLEDs: White Balance > 20 point > 5% > Luminance > increase

are you just changing IRE 5 luminanace or every IRE up to 100? And what are you setting the luminance to?

Sometimes HDR content is so black that I have trouble making out the scene. I was watching Goliath on Amazon and its very dark in some scenes. Very Dark. It looks amazing, but I found myself turning up the brightness a few clicks. But that appears to give the content a white haze of sorts. The OLED light is at 100 by default on the HDR picture settings.
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post #397 of 2599 Old 10-18-2016, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rjbaran17 View Post
Can someone help me do this below:

2A) On LG 2016 OLEDs: White Balance > 20 point > 5% > Luminance > increase

are you just changing IRE 5 luminanace or every IRE up to 100? And what are you setting the luminance to?

Sometimes HDR content is so black that I have trouble making out the scene. I was watching Goliath on Amazon and its very dark in some scenes. Very Dark. It looks amazing, but I found myself turning up the brightness a few clicks. But that appears to give the content a white haze of sorts. The OLED light is at 100 by default on the HDR picture settings.
5% only.

I watched some of Goliath episode 1 last night. Yes, it's way too dark and appears it may have been mastered at 4000 nits.

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post #398 of 2599 Old 10-18-2016, 10:56 PM
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Massive thread with a lot of good stuff here. Maybe I missed it, but has anyone tried doing something like setting the TV to 2.2 gamma but targeting BT.1886 while calibrating so that 5% measures where it's supposed to but near blacks are raised a bit? I had done a normal calibration setting 5% where it's "supposed" to be (which was +3 or +4 luminance, no more) and when I measured values under 5% they were reading as gamma being too high. So would lowering it, then making big adjustments to the rest of the entire range be possible? I guess the concern would be having to make big adjustments across the board to darken the rest of the image to transform 2.2 to 2.4. I plan on trying something like this later anyway.

EDIT: I did a spot check (without busting out the meter) by matching [2.2 gamma 5%] to [2.4 gamma 5%] on different preset to roughly the same brightness by eye. When I check 1-4%, on the 2.2 setting they are raised enough to be noticeable on the couch but not as much as I thought it would. Whether it would be appreciable in actual content I'm not sure yet.

I should mention that in my case even setting brightness to 51 results in a very, very minor glow at 0%. It's so minor that I have to be next to the screen to see it, and I don't have a perfectly blacked out room even at night so I may just set it to 51 to enhance near-black a bit.

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post #399 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 08:46 PM
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So are the near blacks that bad, or are you people just being a little anal? I hear so much praise about these oleds having the best picture and blacks levels I don't hear many complaints about this...

You guys are kinda making me not want to get one if its that bad... is it that much worse than LCD tvs?
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post #400 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Visualsound View Post
So are the near blacks that bad, or are you people just being a little anal? I hear so much praise about these oleds having the best picture and blacks levels I don't hear many complaints about this...

You guys are kinda making me not want to get one if its that bad... is it that much worse than LCD tvs?
Well we are anal...duhhhh. I've yet to see anyone complain about black levels or pq, the thread was started to give us tips to maximize the pq on our own.
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post #401 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visualsound View Post
So are the near blacks that bad, or are you people just being a little anal? I hear so much praise about these oleds having the best picture and blacks levels I don't hear many complaints about this...

You guys are kinda making me not want to get one if its that bad... is it that much worse than LCD tvs?
Read post number one in this thread. It clearly explains why you can't "see" near black on an OLED as well as on other display technologies. The same post shows you how to enhance near black viewing ability on LG OLEDs.

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Last edited by buzzard767; 10-19-2016 at 09:19 PM.
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post #402 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Read post number one in this thread. It clearly explains why you can't "see" near black on an OLED as well as other display technologies. The same post shows you how to enhance near black viewing ability on LG OLEDs.
Not just the first post, the thread is also covered with great little tidbits.
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post #403 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 10:27 PM
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Anybody? I can provide pictures if you don't feel like pausing it on the Dark Knight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Changing low end gamma should have no effect on any gamma response above 7 or 8% and should not "wash out" anything. Try some different content as all of your comments are based on one scene in one movie. Also, why not pause that Potter scene, adjust 5% luminance up and down, and see what happens?
Hey buzz thanks for the reply. I actually tried that first. So I went and tried a better reference material like the Dark Knight. Try the scene right after the window shadow detail you posted in chapter 2 with the guy in the car talking to the other guy at 6:41 time stamp pause the movie. As you add any luminance it brightens the dark spots of his beard to the point that it looks washed out and smoothed over like a filter would do to a Facebook photo.

The positive is that the luminance adds more definition to his ear but then smoothes his face out in the process.

Also on really bad content like Netflix Gotham s1 episode 1, if you adjust the luminance up it makes the pixelated and blocky background even worse. I also watched Halloween 1 on blu ray and it makes the already grainy movie greyed and way more grainer with the luminance adjustment.

Is this how it's supposed to be? Do you still use luminance adjustment with poor filmed sources? Does 52 brightness sound around the ballpark for 81 contrast and 32 oled light? I used the velvet and that's what I ended on with a 0% near black slide.


All in all I definitely see the more detail that the luminance adjustment brings out but is it supposed to be at this big of a cost where it smooths things out like the camera filters on our cell phones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I watched the same Harry Potter scene on Blu-ray this morning and in my opinion, it's a terrible scene/movie to use for testing. Watching this scene on not just my OLED but also on a Panny ST55 the graveyard scene is full of a lot of noise and blocky blacks (like a really bad DirecTV stream quality). This immediately points to the issue being the movie. I would not judge my settings based on it. I just saw there are new Bluray versions being released, so maybe these new ones will have better video encoding. You need a scene of better quality. The Dark Knight is a great choice.

Also, you need to accept that this near black tweak is preference and not reference. There is no set rule to follow. Adjust the settings based on what YOU like.

And when you say you can see 17, how visible is it? IMO, 17 needs to be barely visible. If you can see it clearly from your seating or without much effort to adjust to lighting conditions, luminance is probably too high. But again, this is all subjective and no set rule or goal exists. To each their own.

Set it how YOU like and what looks good to YOU. And forget it.

EDIT:
Here is a description of the Bluray quality of Goblet of Fire


Just a reminder that even when watching a 1080p Bluray, not all content is created or mastered equally.
Hey thanks for your reply. I definitely understand that source material is a big factor but see my reply to buzz above and try out that scene on your set as well on the dark knight. On my set it brought out a lot more detail in his ear that I could not see but at the cost of overly smoothing the guys face that you lost detail in his beard since it was so bright.

What do you do for Netflix material since it's mostly garbage? If I add luminance to the poor source it just brings it out wayyyy more. Looks at the opening scene of Gotham s1 episode 1 if you have it on Netflix. It makes things super blocky and pixelated and brings out the horrid stuff hiding if I just use oled light 32, contrast 81, and brightness 52 with no luminance adjustment.

Also, when I found 17, I did it so I could barely, in the slightest see it in a completely black room, at least for my movie room in my loft. My luminance +13 adjustment is correct even on that scene that Buzzard posted of the dark knight windows. The windows aren't fully detailed until I adjust luminance to +13.

I realize this method isn't reference. I have just put a lot of time into it and money into the black velvet so I figured I would try to get 17 to show.

So if I don't end up figuring out this luminance thing, what brightness should I settle on? Meaning one that just shows 19 but not 17 or 18 which would be 53 on my set or the one where everything is black from 16 down, which would be 52?

Thanks again for all of your help and sorry if I'm being a major PITA.
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post #404 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
Well we are anal...duhhhh. I've yet to see anyone complain about black levels or pq, the thread was started to give us tips to maximize the pq on our own.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Thanks for clearing that up.
Your very welcome.
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post #406 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Anybody? I can provide pictures if you don't feel like pausing it on the Dark Knight.


Hey buzz thanks for the reply. I actually tried that first. So I went and tried a better reference material like the Dark Knight. Try the scene right after the window shadow detail you posted in chapter 2 with the guy in the car talking to the other guy at 6:41 time stamp pause the movie. As you add any luminance it brightens the dark spots of his beard to the point that it looks washed out and smoothed over like a filter would do to a Facebook photo.

The positive is that the luminance adds more definition to his ear but then smoothes his face out in the process.

Also on really bad content like Netflix Gotham s1 episode 1, if you adjust the luminance up it makes the pixelated and blocky background even worse. I also watched Halloween 1 on blu ray and it makes the already grainy movie greyed and way more grainer with the luminance adjustment.

Is this how it's supposed to be? Do you still use luminance adjustment with poor filmed sources? Does 52 brightness sound around the ballpark for 81 contrast and 32 oled light? I used the velvet and that's what I ended on with a 0% near black slide.


All in all I definitely see the more detail that the luminance adjustment brings out but is it supposed to be at this big of a cost where it smooths things out like the camera filters on our cell phones?



Hey thanks for your reply. I definitely understand that source material is a big factor but see my reply to buzz above and try out that scene on your set as well on the dark knight. On my set it brought out a lot more detail in his ear that I could not see but at the cost of overly smoothing the guys face that you lost detail in his beard since it was so bright.

What do you do for Netflix material since it's mostly garbage? If I add luminance to the poor source it just brings it out wayyyy more. Looks at the opening scene of Gotham s1 episode 1 if you have it on Netflix. It makes things super blocky and pixelated and brings out the horrid stuff hiding if I just use oled light 32, contrast 81, and brightness 52 with no luminance adjustment.

Also, when I found 17, I did it so I could barely, in the slightest see it in a completely black room, at least for my movie room in my loft. My luminance +13 adjustment is correct even on that scene that Buzzard posted of the dark knight windows. The windows aren't fully detailed until I adjust luminance to +13.

I realize this method isn't reference. I have just put a lot of time into it and money into the black velvet so I figured I would try to get 17 to show.

So if I don't end up figuring out this luminance thing, what brightness should I settle on? Meaning one that just shows 19 but not 17 or 18 which would be 53 on my set or the one where everything is black from 16 down, which would be 52?

Thanks again for all of your help and sorry if I'm being a major PITA.

Don't overthink this. My "trick" is to make near black visible on LG OLEDs and it is merely a trick. The near black detail is in fact available but the human eye, due to perfect OLED black, cannot see 0.05% black on OLEDs unless your vision is a lot better than mine. My technique raises the luminance level (decreases gamma) of near black so that you can see these levels, more or less the same as you would be able to see them on plasma screens WITHOUT RAISING BLACK LEVEL ITSELF. The difference is that the plasmas pure black would be the same as 1-4% on OLEDs in the first place so of course you can see all near black on them. Use my technique and you will probably see near black something more like that on the on the display used during the mastering process.

Find what works best on your TV, set it, and forget. Farting around by trying to adjust settings for differing content is a waste of time. Set and forget.
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Follow up: I'm watching a news channel on cable TV with three men wearing dark suits. The room (mine and there's) is lighted and the E6P is in bright mode. The near black details are spectacular. Set and forget!!!!

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post #408 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 11:12 PM
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Anybody? I can provide pictures if you don't feel like pausing it on the Dark Knight.


Hey buzz thanks for the reply. I actually tried that first. So I went and tried a better reference material like the Dark Knight. Try the scene right after the window shadow detail you posted in chapter 2 with the guy in the car talking to the other guy at 6:41 time stamp pause the movie. As you add any luminance it brightens the dark spots of his beard to the point that it looks washed out and smoothed over like a filter would do to a Facebook photo.

The positive is that the luminance adds more definition to his ear but then smoothes his face out in the process.

Also on really bad content like Netflix Gotham s1 episode 1, if you adjust the luminance up it makes the pixelated and blocky background even worse. I also watched Halloween 1 on blu ray and it makes the already grainy movie greyed and way more grainer with the luminance adjustment.

Is this how it's supposed to be? Do you still use luminance adjustment with poor filmed sources? Does 52 brightness sound around the ballpark for 81 contrast and 32 oled light? I used the velvet and that's what I ended on with a 0% near black slide.


All in all I definitely see the more detail that the luminance adjustment brings out but is it supposed to be at this big of a cost where it smooths things out like the camera filters on our cell phones?



Hey thanks for your reply. I definitely understand that source material is a big factor but see my reply to buzz above and try out that scene on your set as well on the dark knight. On my set it brought out a lot more detail in his ear that I could not see but at the cost of overly smoothing the guys face that you lost detail in his beard since it was so bright.

What do you do for Netflix material since it's mostly garbage? If I add luminance to the poor source it just brings it out wayyyy more. Looks at the opening scene of Gotham s1 episode 1 if you have it on Netflix. It makes things super blocky and pixelated and brings out the horrid stuff hiding if I just use oled light 32, contrast 81, and brightness 52 with no luminance adjustment.

Also, when I found 17, I did it so I could barely, in the slightest see it in a completely black room, at least for my movie room in my loft. My luminance +13 adjustment is correct even on that scene that Buzzard posted of the dark knight windows. The windows aren't fully detailed until I adjust luminance to +13.

I realize this method isn't reference. I have just put a lot of time into it and money into the black velvet so I figured I would try to get 17 to show.

So if I don't end up figuring out this luminance thing, what brightness should I settle on? Meaning one that just shows 19 but not 17 or 18 which would be 53 on my set or the one where everything is black from 16 down, which would be 52?

Thanks again for all of your help and sorry if I'm being a major PITA.
This part of it can get frustrating, because it is a pita, I personally settled on 52, and luminance at +3. The reason why I didn't go higher on luma is that on my set anything higher just brings out the bad in certain movies and I don't like that, I've tried lowering brightness a click and higher luma...no go. I've done so many A B comparisons with my plasma and to be honest, although some will disagree with me, the crush is just not that bad that you need to be ripping your hair out!
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post #409 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 11:27 PM
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Follow up: I'm watching a news channel on cable TV with three men wearing dark suits. The room (mine and there's) is lighted and the E6P is in bright mode. The near black details are spectacular. Set and forget!!!!
It sounds like I just need to do something in between then. +13 luminance is where I can start to see 17 but it brings out NASTY stuff on my set with the more detail. So the negative outweighs the positive black detail I get. So I think I need to just settle on +5 luminance even though it's not the "right." So I can see a little more detail but not make the bad look even worse.

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This part of it can get frustrating, because it is a pita, I personally settled on 52, and luminance at +3. The reason why I didn't go higher on luma is that on my set anything higher just brings out the bad in certain movies and I don't like that, I've tried lowering brightness a click and higher luma...no go. I've done so many A B comparisons with my plasma and to be honest, although some will disagree with me, the crush is just not that bad that you need to be ripping your hair out!
See the post I just replied to right above. I have the SAME EXACT issue. I'm surprised no one else is seeing this on their set. Yes, I can see more detail with +13 luminance but it brings out the nasty stuff in the process. I think I'm going to settle on +5 which might be a good compromise of seeing a little bit more detail and bring out a little nastiness but not a crazy amount like it does at +13 luminance. I'm guessing you're at a similar oled light and contrast as me (32 oled light and 81 contrast with 52 brightness on mine )?

Thanks for clarifying you're having the same issue as me. I thought I was crazy.
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post #410 of 2599 Old 10-19-2016, 11:35 PM
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It sounds like I just need to do something in between then. +13 luminance is where I can start to see 17 but it brings out NASTY stuff on my set with the more detail. So the negative outweighs the positive black detail I get. So I think I need to just settle on +5 luminance even though it's not the "right." So I can see a little more detail but not make the bad look even worse.



See the post I just replied to right above. I have the SAME EXACT issue. I'm surprised no one else is seeing this on their set. Yes, I can see more detail with +13 luminance but it brings out the nasty stuff in the process. I think I'm going to settle on +5 which might be a good compromise of seeing a little bit more detail and bring out a little nastiness but not a crazy amount like it does at +13 luminance. I'm guessing you're at a similar oled light and contrast as me (32 oled light and 81 contrast with 52 brightness on mine )?

Thanks for clarifying you're having the same issue as me. I thought I was crazy.
I keep oled at 50 and contrast at 80, +3 is just fine on mine, remember to go off of what you see and what you like!!!
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I keep oled at 50 and contrast at 80, +3 is just fine on mine, remember to go off of what you see and what you like!!!
I loved the extra black detail but I couldn't deall with the nastiness it brought out at the correct luminance. I definitely appreciate you helping! I am leaving luminance low until I eventually get it calibrated by Chad B!
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I loved the extra black detail but I couldn't deall with the nastiness it brought out at the correct luminance. I definitely appreciate you helping! I am leaving luminance low until I eventually get it calibrated by Chad B!
Same here, and no problem...great choice for your cal!
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post #413 of 2599 Old 10-25-2016, 01:44 PM
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Is it normal I have to adjust 5% luminescence to 20 and brightness to 55 in order to see the second column (black 17)? or am I doing something wrong? I am in ISF Dark Mode.

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Is it normal I have to adjust 5% luminescence to 20 and brightness to 55 in order to see the second column (black 17)? or am I doing something wrong? I am in ISF Dark Mode.

Mike
Before you adjust 5%, set Brightness at the highest setting possible without raising true black - usually 51-53. Then increase 5% luma 10-20 points. If true black start to rise, back off a couple clicks.

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post #415 of 2599 Old 10-25-2016, 02:33 PM
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Adjusting luminance is all about compromise on OLED. If you want to see <0.5% detail, you will need to raise the luminance, but you will expose some of the nasty artifacts that were always there. Or you can compromise and raise luminance perhaps only 50%. IOW, if you raise luminance to +15 and then see those nasty artifacts, try raising to only +7 or +8 instead. You might not see all the detail in near black, but you will see more than just leaving luminance at 0. This is just the way OLED is going to be unless you want to use NR on the tv. That is another option. Or you can combine both of them. Raise luminance to +15 and set NR to low.
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post #416 of 2599 Old 10-25-2016, 07:53 PM
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Adjusting luminance is all about compromise on OLED. If you want to see <0.5% detail, you will need to raise the luminance, but you will expose some of the nasty artifacts that were always there. Or you can compromise and raise luminance perhaps only 50%. IOW, if you raise luminance to +15 and then see those nasty artifacts, try raising to only +7 or +8 instead. You might not see all the detail in near black, but you will see more than just leaving luminance at 0. This is just the way OLED is going to be unless you want to use NR on the tv. That is another option. Or you can combine both of them. Raise luminance to +15 and set NR to low.
Probably the best explanation on this that I've seen so far on this thread...it is a compromise no doubt!
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post #417 of 2599 Old 10-26-2016, 04:32 PM
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That scene from he opening of HP4 looks awful on my Kuro with its tweaked 9.5G blacks too. No way to make it look decent without crushing the bejeezus out of shadow detail. The best HP for overall PQ is probably 5 but they all have their problems (especially 1-4 and parts of 7.5)
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post #418 of 2599 Old 10-28-2016, 01:50 PM
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I have been messing a bit more with gamma 2.2 on my E6. Just a brief history, I was having issues with 2.2 glowing at 0% no matter what my brightness was set at on both my 65E6's. First one and then replacement. I ended up setting 2 point low rgb all to -20 to get rid of the glow and then raising brightness to 52. I then adjusted 5% Luminance to +4. That got me thinking though. If I had to lower 2 point low that much, I probably needed to adjust more than 5% luminance. Most likely all the way to 25%. So what I did was use the same set up on Cinema mode, but instead of just raising 5% to +4, I raised 10 through 25 all to +4. However, I did those adjustments by raising rgb all to +4 and not the luminance. The picture now has greater depth. I noticed a difference right away in the movie Jack Reacher. Pause movie at the 30:40 mark. Now flip between Cinema with the 5% adjustments to 25 IRE, and to ISF bright with only the 5% adjustment. You will notice greater depth in his plaid shirt and face with Cinema vs ISF bright. Bright looks more washed out. Everything else was the same in those picture modes. 2 Point low all at -20, brightness at 52, Contrast at 81 and OLED light ant 60.
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post #419 of 2599 Old 10-29-2016, 07:28 AM
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I have been messing a bit more with gamma 2.2 on my E6. Just a brief history, I was having issues with 2.2 glowing at 0% no matter what my brightness was set at on both my 65E6's. First one and then replacement. I ended up setting 2 point low rgb all to -20 to get rid of the glow and then raising brightness to 52. I then adjusted 5% Luminance to +4. That got me thinking though. If I had to lower 2 point low that much, I probably needed to adjust more than 5% luminance. Most likely all the way to 25%. So what I did was use the same set up on Cinema mode, but instead of just raising 5% to +4, I raised 10 through 25 all to +4. However, I did those adjustments by raising rgb all to +4 and not the luminance. The picture now has greater depth. I noticed a difference right away in the movie Jack Reacher. Pause movie at the 30:40 mark. Now flip between Cinema with the 5% adjustments to 25 IRE, and to ISF bright with only the 5% adjustment. You will notice greater depth in his plaid shirt and face with Cinema vs ISF bright. Bright looks more washed out. Everything else was the same in those picture modes. 2 Point low all at -20, brightness at 52, Contrast at 81 and OLED light ant 60.
Are you ever going to break down and get a meter ? I happen to think you would be an excellent diy calibrator. Why guess ?

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post #420 of 2599 Old 10-29-2016, 07:34 AM
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Watched Captain America civil war last night and on the doctor strange ending trailer the artificats were real on the all black screen but I think it was just something wrong wit that particular clip because the clip after was black as it should be
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