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post #1231 of 2596 Old 01-17-2017, 12:14 PM
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I don't find warm2 to red or yellow etc on my B6.

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post #1232 of 2596 Old 01-17-2017, 12:48 PM
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Panel variance also contributes to how much people perceive or don't perceive the warmness, so YMMV. For example, my panel pushes green quite a bit on the grayscale, along with red to some degree. Everything looks very yellow/green without adjustment.

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post #1233 of 2596 Old 01-18-2017, 09:00 AM
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Thanks so much for all the great info in this thread. I did some testing on my 55" B6 and saw that +10 at 5% is the max I can go without causing the panel to glow at 0% when setting the panel to Brightness 50 at BT.1886 gamma. Once I did that, things looked so much better, so I tried the test of changing 10% to +9 and 15% to +8 etc... and holy smokes, that did the trick! True black with visible details in dark scenes looks AMAZING! I also tried the test of moving up in +2 intervals (10% +8, 15% +6) and that didn't look as good as I still couldn't make out some details in dark scenes. So for me, the +1 pattern worked best. Now if only we could calibrate the SDR Game Mode, as in the SDR Game Mode I have to set Brightness to 52 to not crush blacks and also set Color to 45 so the image isn't too saturated (forced wide color gamut sucks). Is there a petition for adding more calibration options to the SDR Game Mode?
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post #1234 of 2596 Old 01-18-2017, 09:43 AM
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LG OLEDs - how to enhance near black detail

So I've been reading this thread since I bought my 65B6 in December and tried a lot of things in this thread just to see what difference it would make. Although raising luminance at 5% did make some shadow detail more easily visible, it also introduces grain in some of those shadows. And to be honest, like the other poster was stating above, compared to my VT60 that I had(which I compared side by side before I sold it) there wasn't a huge difference in the shadow detail. I'm not saying there wasn't any, just not enough for me to go messing with luminance. I actually prefer the picture without the adjustments. This is just my opinion and my set won't be calibrated until next month.


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post #1235 of 2596 Old 01-18-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bberns22 View Post
Again not clear what you are referring to but if you mean that secondary points can be impacted by the adjustment of primary that is correct. You can see color shifting on the secondaries, if you have to move the primary points too far. I remember a Samsung DLP that gave me a bear of a time on this.
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I have a calibration background understand how CMS works. At any rate my calibrator chose to not use cms due to the creation of artifacts. I trust his judgement.

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I believe the point was that the CMS color controls only affect a very small area of the gamut so you may be able to shift that area into a alignment, but the vast rest of the color gamut won't shift with it thereby creating problems when you view the color ramps as it will suddenly 'jump' between points. Tint usually is a universal hue shift so that can align not just the end points but more of the area as well.


That's how I read it at least. So no CMS adjustment at all except via color/tint Chunon?
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post #1236 of 2596 Old 01-18-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Without calibration, Warm 2 has lower error:

Warm 1 had 29.91dE @ 100% White
Warm 2 had 15.68dE @ 100% White


Hi Tedd,


Do you know if the CMS HSL have different levels of impact on the gamut when used if you change between these modes?
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post #1237 of 2596 Old 01-18-2017, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
I believe the point was that the CMS color controls only affect a very small area of the gamut so you may be able to shift that area into a alignment, but the vast rest of the color gamut won't shift with it thereby creating problems when you view the color ramps as it will suddenly 'jump' between points. Tint usually is a universal hue shift so that can align not just the end points but more of the area as well.


That's how I read it at least. So no CMS adjustment at all except via color/tint Chunon?
That was the decision Chad made on my set and I believe he follows that as a general rule. No absolutes in calibration tho.

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post #1238 of 2596 Old 01-18-2017, 02:10 PM
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Thanks for the info. I think I'll try to follow suit my first time through. Chad certainly has forgotten more than I know on the subject
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post #1239 of 2596 Old 01-18-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
Hi Tedd,


Do you know if the CMS HSL have different levels of impact on the gamut when used if you change between these modes?
Hi, I have tested a lot of stuff beyond measurements, checking patterns but mainly real content etc....

Adjustments to these CMS controls are always degrading real performance, but to know which exactly areas, you have to measure a lot of color points, since problems introduced can be detected by naked eye and changes are visible with real content; it's a waste of time to locate what areas are degrading by taking cube measurements and analyzing since the same job you can do it by checking various different scenes/movies....to specific scenes is more visible to others less visible.

A good approach to do this, is the following method I performed....For example, to compare and locate if the calibration adjustments are not introducing problems, lets say that you have used ISF Dark mode to calibrate.....copy the same settings of the main page (OLED/Contrast/Brightness/Color/Sharpness) and Color Gamut Normal and all other enhancements disabled to ISF Bright.

So the only difference between ISF Dark vs. Bright modes, it will be only the adjustments of White Balance the ISF Dark has.

Pause a movie or check during playback..... check various colors/shades and swap between these 2 memories to check the differencies.

Swapping between Dark-Bright is instantly if you have opened the list of the modes, you press Up+OK or Down+Ok button very quick while you focus to paused pattern or movie still.

The ideal to these sets if to bypass any internal controls and use only 3D LUT, the less internal adjustments, the more natural looking image (less digital-look).

This is exactly what they do when they buy these LG's for post-production applications....they use Color Gamut Wide in SDR (which gives close to DCI-P3) and calibrate using external 3D LUT Box or internal granding suite 3D LUT capability (for Davinci Resolve for example or others.)

I have experience only from EU 65E6, I can't comment for other models/regions.

After HDR10/2D Internal Controls/3D Internal Controls/3D LUT calibrations, the real magic comes only from 3D LUT for my eyes which is familiar with 3D LUT calibrated sets a lot of years from various displays.
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post #1240 of 2596 Old 01-18-2017, 05:06 PM
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Good thread. I lowered 5 IRE gamma to about 1.9, and see more shadow detail. For example, in Gravity a lot more stars are visible, although a bit muted. When I pause on a scene with stars and switch to Standard mode (same oled), the stars are still there mostly but a lot brighter. I assume the darker/muted stars is the proper look?
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post #1241 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roque13 View Post
So I've been reading this thread since I bought my 65B6 in December and tried a lot of things in this thread just to see what difference it would make. Although raising luminance at 5% did make some shadow detail more easily visible, it also introduces grain in some of those shadows. And to be honest, like the other poster was stating above, compared to my VT60 that I had(which I compared side by side before I sold it) there wasn't a huge difference in the shadow detail. I'm not saying there wasn't any, just not enough for me to go messing with luminance. I actually prefer the picture without the adjustments. This is just my opinion and my set won't be calibrated until next month.


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That is what I did too, I put my vt60 and B6 side by side and B6 has some crush but nothing major if you ask me and I did nothing to luminance either.so I don't mind some crush. I don't know why people are complaining that it has major black crush, that don't exist on my B6.brightness 51 and gamma BT1886 is good without adjusting luminance.
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post #1242 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by shield1280 View Post
That is what I did too, I put my vt60 and B6 side by side and B6 has some crush but nothing major if you ask me and I did nothing to luminance either.so I don't mind some crush. I don't know why people are complaining that it has major black crush, that don't exist on my B6.brightness 51 and gamma BT1886 is good without adjusting luminance.
What's your 5 IRE gamma value? See my post about Gravity - with a higher low end gamma, hundreds of stars are invisible. You can also pause it and switch to standard or vivid mode and see a huge difference in the number of stars. If you see no difference, your set is probably calibrated for the shadow detail.
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post #1243 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ntalwar View Post
What's your 5 IRE gamma value? See my post about Gravity - with a higher low end gamma, hundreds of stars are invisible. You can also pause it and switch to standard or vivid mode and see a huge difference in the number of stars. If you see no difference, your set is probably calibrated for the shadow detail.
I have not messed with luminance it's at default.i shall check out gravity I have it on Blu-ray.wich time stamp on gravity?

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post #1244 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shield1280 View Post
That is what I did too, I put my vt60 and B6 side by side and B6 has some crush but nothing major if you ask me and I did nothing to luminance either.so I don't mind some crush. I don't know why people are complaining that it has major black crush, that don't exist on my B6.brightness 51 and gamma BT1886 is good without adjusting luminance.
Professional reviews on every LG OLED all have the same complaint. The side by side photo in post number one clearly shows what can be done about it.

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post #1245 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Professional reviews on every LG OLED all have the same complaint. The side by side photo in post number one clearly shows what can be done about it.
I can only say what I see when I have them both side by side.of course it's a lot more to do with it, but un-calibrated shadow details side by side with my vt60 the B6 is not so bad.

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post #1246 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shield1280 View Post
I can only say what I see when I have them both side by side.of course it's a lot more to do with it, but un-calibrated shadow details side by side with my vt60 the B6 is not so bad.
I also have a VT60. Side by side, both displays calibrated, there is definitely a difference.

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post #1247 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 08:02 AM
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I have not messed with luminance it's at default.i shall check out gravity I have it on Blu-ray.wich time stamp on gravity?
Try something like the start of Chapter 3 - first several seconds has wide space/earth shots if I remember correctly (at work now).
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post #1248 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
I also have a VT60. Side by side, both displays calibrated, there is definitely a difference.
Yes the B6 has some black crush compared to vt60, but nothing major, I see almost the same shadow details on my B6 as I do on my vt60. As I said it has some black crush then the vt60 don't have.

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post #1249 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ntalwar View Post
Good thread. I lowered 5 IRE gamma to about 1.9, and see more shadow detail. For example, in Gravity a lot more stars are visible, although a bit muted. When I pause on a scene with stars and switch to Standard mode (same oled), the stars are still there mostly but a lot brighter. I assume the darker/muted stars is the proper look?
Which overall gamma setting were you using (2.2? BT.1886?) and how did you brighten the gamma at IRE 5 to 1.9? Was this simply through adjusting the luminance at IRE 5 as described in this thread's OP or did you do something else?
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post #1250 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 12:16 PM
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Hi guys. Decided to try the -2 drop step in luminance above 5IRE as stated by Bob P on both of my sets. This minor change sure does makes a difference instead of the drop of -1 which works better for me.

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OLED Light: 50/45
Contrast: 82/82
Brightness: 51/50
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H & V sharpness: 10/10 Same on both

All enhancements OFF
Gamma: BT1886
Color Temp: Warm 2

20 point IRE luminance adjustments
IRE 5 = +10/+12
IRE 10 = +8/+10
IRE 15 = +6/+8 until you reach 0


Thanks again to everyone still contributing to this thread.

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post #1251 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MeximusPrime View Post
Hi guys. Decided to try the -2 drop step in luminance above 5IRE as stated by Bob P on both of my sets. This minor change sure does makes a difference instead of the drop of -1 which works better for me.

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OLED Light: 50/45
Contrast: 82/82
Brightness: 51/50
Color/Tint: 48/0 Same on both
H & V sharpness: 10/10 Same on both

All enhancements OFF
Gamma: BT1886
Color Temp: Warm 2

20 point IRE luminance adjustments
IRE 5 = +10/+12
IRE 10 = +8/+10
IRE 15 = +6/+8 until you reach 0


Thanks again to everyone still contributing to this thread.
Cool, thanks for posting! My 65" E6 settings are very close to yours but Im using the -1 drop step(IRE 5 through 50, +10, +9, +8, etc) on my set and am prety happy with the results. I am using BT1886, Warm2, but my Contrast is 84. I also have the OLED Light at 55. Brightness at 51.

You feel the -2 step works better than the -1 step? Have you seen appreciable changes on content your familiar with? Very curious here!

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post #1252 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Cool, thanks for posting! My 65" E6 settings are very close to yours but Im using the -1 drop step(IRE 5 through 50, +10, +9, +8, etc) on my set and am prety happy with the results. I am using BT1886, Warm2, but my Contrast is 84. I also have the OLED Light at 55. Brightness at 51.

You feel the -2 step works better than the -1 step? Have you seen appreciable changes on content your familiar with? Very curious here!
Hi RL. On the contrast anything between 80-85 will work and OLED light of course is preference. On content im familiar with it makes it seem less "washed out" but I want to warn don't expect a major difference than -1 step.

I think Buzz mentioned this on one his responses to this setup and trying not to make it an LCD. Try it out on a spare picture mode and let us know what you think.

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post #1253 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NashGuy View Post
Which overall gamma setting were you using (2.2? BT.1886?) and how did you brighten the gamma at IRE 5 to 1.9? Was this simply through adjusting the luminance at IRE 5 as described in this thread's OP or did you do something else?
I used the gamma 2.4 preset, and increased 5 ire luminance a lot (approx +15 to 20 - but with other 2/20pt adjustments for grayscale).
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post #1254 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MeximusPrime View Post
Hi RL. On the contrast anything between 80-85 will work and OLED light of course is preference. On content im familiar with it makes it seem less "washed out" but I want to warn don't expect a major difference than -1 step.

I think Buzz mentioned this on one his responses to this setup and trying not to make it an LCD. Try it out on a spare picture mode and let us know what you think.
I've changed my settings using the -2 step since it was mentioned previously by Bob and I came to the same conclusion. While it's not a huge difference between the -1 step, it definitely gave a little less flat looking image.

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post #1255 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MeximusPrime View Post
Hi RL. On the contrast anything between 80-85 will work and OLED light of course is preference. On content im familiar with it makes it seem less "washed out" but I want to warn don't expect a major difference than -1 step.

I think Buzz mentioned this on one his responses to this setup and trying not to make it an LCD. Try it out on a spare picture mode and let us know what you think.
Sounds good, I might give it a shot just to see. I've actually been behaving lately as in not fretting over tweaking the TV every day lol. Been happy with my settings, especially for dark room. Always like to try out small tweaks though. I'll try over the weekend and see!

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Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post
I've changed my settings using the -2 step since it was mentioned previously by Bob and I came to the same conclusion. While it's not a huge difference between the -1 step, it definitely gave a little less flat looking image.
Definitely do NOT shoot for looking like an LCD. Yuk! As I said, I'll try this larger step out and see what happens.

Thanks gents....this thread is one of my favorite!

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post #1256 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 03:12 PM
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Try something like the start of Chapter 3 - first several seconds has wide space/earth shots if I remember correctly (at work now).
Tried gravity and chapter 3, I adjusted luminance +10 and flipped between bright and dark with same settings on both, expected that bright I did not adjust luminance, very little difference, on the one I adjusted luminance the stars very a little brighter, but i still saw all the stars on bright too with none luminance adjusted on.so luminance +10 the stars were brighter, none luminance adjusted still saw all the stars but a little darker of course.

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post #1257 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 03:59 PM
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Can't you just apply a gamma curve that starts at 2.2 and moves its way up to 2.4 to get low end detail back?
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post #1258 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by shield1280 View Post
Tried gravity and chapter 3, I adjusted luminance +10 and flipped between bright and dark with same settings on both, expected that bright I did not adjust luminance, very little difference, on the one I adjusted luminance the stars very a little brighter, but i still saw all the stars on bright too with none luminance adjusted on.so luminance +10 the stars were brighter, none luminance adjusted still saw all the stars but a little darker of course.
After watching again, the 16-17 minute mark is a better test/darker scene. 2.3-2.4 low end gamma was too high on my set for that.
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post #1259 of 2596 Old 01-19-2017, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntalwar View Post
After watching again, the 16-17 minute mark is a better test/darker scene. 2.3-2.4 low end gamma was too high on my set for that.
tested from 16-17 minute marker and it is just like it was before, the stars are a little brighter and a little more detail on Sandra bullock.so I just don't feel the need to mess with luminance without a meter, because i ain't gaining that much by it anyway.
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Guys for the Batman scene shown in OP, should I view the scene through a DVD format of the movie or a Blu-Ray format ?
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