LG OLEDs - how to enhance near black detail - Page 73 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2161 of 2617 Old 05-22-2017, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Yeah - still using the "Ramp Down" system starting at IRE 5 +8 and counting down by two's from there. I use Brightness at 52 now since the service menu change from B:128 to B:127 allowed me to use Brightness 52. I used to be a steadfast Brightness 51 guy.
LOL! Ok gotcha. Well things are probably a little different between our displays cuz you have the E6 and I have the B6.

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post #2162 of 2617 Old 05-22-2017, 08:02 AM
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LOL! Ok gotcha. Well things are probably a little different between our displays cuz you have the E6 and I have the B6.
Oh sure - there is defintely some variability between the same models too.
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post #2163 of 2617 Old 05-22-2017, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I made this near black test pattern which might be more useful for getting repeatable results compared to using a scene from a movie.

The pattern consists of 12x12 blocks where each block is using one of the available video signal levels below 5% (assuming all valid levels run from 16 to 235). First column has background at level 16, second column has background at 17, etc. all the way to background of 27. The smaller inner boxes also run from level 16 to 27 as you go down each column. This covers every possible combination of near-black gray next to every other near-black gray.

What you would want in an ideal display is that each inner box is distinguishable from its outer background box. A set with good gamma tracking makes it easier to distinguish the boxes from their backgrounds. Only the diagonal boxes (running from top/left to bottom/right) should have the inner box matching their outer background box. The black surrounding the entire pattern (and entire the top/left most box) should not be visible since it's at video level 16.

If your set passes this pattern, then you are seeing all the shadow detail that is possible to encode into a BD disk. Well, at least in grayscale. We would need a different pattern to see if any near-black colors are lost.

Whatever remaining loss of shadow detail appears in real-world content would be caused by director intent or by limitations of our eyes. We can't simultaneously see dark and bright detail near each other. A higher contrast display like OLED makes this limitation more apparent.

You should do this with whatever ambient lighting you normally watch movies in. If watching in the dark, let your eyes adapt for 5-10 minutes.

It took a couple hours to figure out how do make this. Let me know if anyone finds it useful. I accept donations of unwanted OLEDs - just send a PM for directions.
Quick question on this. When I play this mp4 via a USB thumbnail I get an intermittent throbbing background flash (almost impercrptible but there). Is that common?
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post #2164 of 2617 Old 05-22-2017, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post
Quick question on this. When I play this mp4 via a USB thumbnail I get an intermittent throbbing background flash (almost impercrptible but there). Is that common?
This appears to be some issue specific to the B6. Another user reported the same thing earlier in this thread. Sorry, I have no idea how to fix it.

Edit: You could try the png version of the patterns posted here.

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post #2165 of 2617 Old 05-22-2017, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
I created the same pattern in Paint.net (no, not MS Paint) for isolated red, green and blue colors. Attached are four 2160p PNG images: one each for gray, red, green and blue.
My red & greens are perfect, but the blue has a blob of of like 4 boxes in the middle of the pattern where I can't distinguish any of them. Changing contrast or messing with the blue tint/saturation etc... just moved that blob of all blue squares from the center to other places on the board.

What would I need to mess with to see all the boxes?
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post #2166 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 01:15 PM
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but if have the gamma set at 2.2 will setting the 5IRE at 8 and decreasing in steps of 2 work, or do I have to set the gamma to BT1886?
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post #2167 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Osprey379 View Post
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but if have the gamma set at 2.2 will setting the 5IRE at 8 and decreasing in steps of 2 work, or do I have to set the gamma to BT1886?
I personally think 2.2 gamma is way too bright and prefer BT.1886 as there is more pop with .1886. With 2.2 I would assume you probably don't need much help with shadow details. But you can try it and see and let us know!

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post #2168 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Osprey379 View Post
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but if have the gamma set at 2.2 will setting the 5IRE at 8 and decreasing in steps of 2 work, or do I have to set the gamma to BT1886?
I use gamma 2.2. I set 5 IRE at 5 and go 1 step down at a time. Produces a great picture.
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post #2169 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 01:46 PM
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I use gamma 2.2. I set 5 IRE at 5 and go 1 step down at a time. Produces a great picture.
Hmm? I might have to try your setting @wxman . How come you don't like the .1886 gamma?

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post #2170 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 02:00 PM
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Hmm? I might have to try your setting @wxman . How come you don't like the .1886 gamma?
I have always had my tv's set to 2.2. So I am use to it and prefer it over the darker gammas.
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post #2171 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I have always had my tv's set to 2.2. So I am use to it and prefer it over the darker gammas.
Gotcha. Ok thanks!

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post #2172 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 02:05 PM
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Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I do prefer the 2.2 setting as the BT1886 just looks a little dark for me. I am going to give your suggested IRE settings a go. Thanks again.
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post #2173 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Osprey379 View Post
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I do prefer the 2.2 setting as the BT1886 just looks a little dark for me. I am going to give your suggested IRE settings a go. Thanks again.
I should probably have mentioned that I have a 55B6. Will that make any difference in using the IRE settings, as I see you both have an E6?
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post #2174 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 02:11 PM
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Gotcha. Ok thanks!
RTINGS even recommended 1.9 if the image was too dark. Not sure about that. "We turned all the processing settings off. We also put the 'Color Gamut' to normal and put the 'Gamma' settings to 2.2 as it seemed to benefit our calibration. If you find that the blacks are crushed you can use 'Gamma' 1.9."

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/e6/settings
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post #2175 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 02:12 PM
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I should probably have mentioned that I have a 55B6. Will that make any difference in using the IRE settings, as I see you both have an E6?
They are different, so setting 5 IRE to +5 may be too much, since the E6 has finer controls. You may find that +2 may be enough.
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post #2176 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
RTINGS even recommended 1.9 if the image was too dark. Not sure about that. "We turned all the processing settings off. We also put the 'Color Gamut' to normal and put the 'Gamma' settings to 2.2 as it seemed to benefit our calibration. If you find that the blacks are crushed you can use 'Gamma' 1.9."

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/e6/settings
Yes, I remember reading that about six months ago when I first got my B6. So even they were noticing some black crush under gamma 2.2. I use 2.2 and I think now have my IRE 5 at +10 on most sources. (Very glad you figured out that trick and posted it here.) But I don't think I could ever go with gamma 1.9, as Rtings suggests. Too washed out. For me, 2.2 is the happy medium that balances depth vs. shadow detail.
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post #2177 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 05:10 PM
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LG OLEDs - how to enhance near black detail

I have a question, are most of you calibrating or making these adjustments with lights on? The reason I ask is because in my B6 at BT1886 I have made no adjustments to luminance at any level, I adjusted my service menu sub bright to 126, my brightness is set at 51, and I have only made a few adjustments to the 20 point and I can see 17 in a completely dark room at the screen with no problem. I can even see it a foot away from it. From what I understand 17 shouldn't necessarily be seen from the seating position, but at the screen. Just curious what others experiences are. And when I compared it directly to my VT60 before I sold it side by side the difference was indistinguishable. Glad everyone is enjoying their sets.


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post #2178 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 05:26 PM
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I have a question, are most of you calibrating or making these adjustments with lights on? The reason I ask is because in my B6 at BT1886 I have made no adjustments to luminance at any level, I adjusted my service menu sub bright to 126, my brightness is set at 51, and I have only made a few adjustments to the 20 point and I can see 17 in a completely dark room at the screen with no problem. I can even see it a foot away from it. From what I understand 17 shouldn't necessarily be seen from the seating position, but at the screen. Just curious what others experiences are. And when I compared it directly to my VT60 before I sold it side by side the difference was indistinguishable. Glad everyone is enjoying their sets.


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Quickest way to check is in a dark room at night, use the youtube app and play 10 hours HD black screen. Make sure you are using the exact same picture settings for the app. Let your eyes adjust. If the screen has a glow, even faint, then the brightness is too high. if not, you have a perfect setting.
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post #2179 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 05:34 PM
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Quickest way to check is in a dark room at night, use the youtube app and play 10 hours HD black screen. Make sure you are using the exact same picture settings for the app. Let your eyes adjust. If the screen has a glow, even faint, then the brightness is too high. if not, you have a perfect setting.


I definitely don't have a glow, that's the first thing I checked for. I was more curious because some of these settings would cause glow and make my B6 look like an LCD lol. And I've also found that using the luminance controls actually add unwanted noise in more scenes than not. I tested this with numerous scenes in a pitch black room. I personally don't see an appreciable difference using the luminance control for shadow detail.


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post #2180 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 06:57 PM
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My red & greens are perfect, but the blue has a blob of of like 4 boxes in the middle of the pattern where I can't distinguish any of them. Changing contrast or messing with the blue tint/saturation etc... just moved that blob of all blue squares from the center to other places on the board.

What would I need to mess with to see all the boxes?
I have that issue too. Blue may be a difficult color near black, maybe someone else could comment on this, I'm not an expert. For my set if I remember right the BLUE levels {background, box} = {19,18}, {20,21}, {21,22} and {22,23} show bad definition. My set is not calibrated.

I also played with contrast settings and noticed that each tick of contrast can have drastic impacts on the near-black performance. I would encourage people to use these slides and play around with their contrast to see what I am talking about.

It also seems to happen on my cheap LCD monitors - that is, blue being the worst of the colors (my grayscale on my LCD monitor looks fantastic).
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What is adjusting the white balance doing, exactly? I started at IRE 5 +10 and stepped down from there, and it helped a bit with shadow detail, but what else am I screwing up?

I like to have an idea of what I'm mucking about with on my $1500 TV, since I've learned that your eyes can deceive you if your brain thinks everything is supposed to look better. :P
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post #2182 of 2617 Old 05-23-2017, 09:05 PM
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I personally think 2.2 gamma is way too bright and prefer BT.1886 as there is more pop with .1886. With 2.2 I would assume you probably don't need much help with shadow details. But you can try it and see and let us know!
I prefer 2.2 gamma because I always view with room light on.

I tried BT1886 and found that it just looked too dark. It might actually be better at night with all lights off.

I suppose the best gamma setting would to be to have two different picture modes set up with one calibrated for 2.2 and the other with BT. 1886. Then flip picture modes as needed. I prefer to just set it and forget it. If I'm not careful, I'll find myself analyzing the picture and changing settings rather than enjoying the show.
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post #2183 of 2617 Old 05-24-2017, 03:40 AM
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I prefer 2.2 gamma because I always view with room light on.

I tried BT1886 and found that it just looked too dark. It might actually be better at night with all lights off.

I suppose the best gamma setting would to be to have two different picture modes set up with one calibrated for 2.2 and the other with BT. 1886. Then flip picture modes as needed. I prefer to just set it and forget it. If I'm not careful, I'll find myself analyzing the picture and changing settings rather than enjoying the show.
BT1886 is my goto gamma for Dark Room viewing so yeah, its great for a dark room! Honestly, it does work well for daytime viewing too but you need to kick up the OLED light and Contrast. All personal preference of course

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post #2184 of 2617 Old 05-24-2017, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Quickest way to check is in a dark room at night, use the youtube app and play 10 hours HD black screen. Make sure you are using the exact same picture settings for the app. Let your eyes adjust. If the screen has a glow, even faint, then the brightness is too high. if not, you have a perfect setting.
Yep that's exactly why I settled on 127 sub b/c and 51 brightness. 51 was pitch black but when I moved it to 52 I had a little glow. That 10 hours HD black screen on you tube was so helpful with making sure I wasn't screwing up my 0 black. My shadows might be a hair crushed cuz I can't see 17 flashing but I'll take a slight crush.

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post #2185 of 2617 Old 05-24-2017, 07:20 AM
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LOL! Ok gotcha. Well things are probably a little different between our displays cuz you have the E6 and I have the B6.
Do you still ramp down your IRE values now that you have adjusted your sub-brightness?
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post #2186 of 2617 Old 05-24-2017, 07:31 AM
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Do you still ramp down your IRE values now that you have adjusted your sub-brightness?
Yes but I might try it now with not ramping down my IRE. Just to see what kind of changes it does. A lot of these guys on this thread have the E6 so with me having the B6 I have to play a little more.

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post #2187 of 2617 Old 05-26-2017, 04:11 AM
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What is adjusting the white balance doing, exactly? I started at IRE 5 +10 and stepped down from there, and it helped a bit with shadow detail, but what else am I screwing up?

I like to have an idea of what I'm mucking about with on my $1500 TV, since I've learned that your eyes can deceive you if your brain thinks everything is supposed to look better. :P
Basically, it's coming out of absolute black a little more smoothly and helping with the gamma curve. Hence, slightly better shadow detail. You aren't mucking up anything....you're making the overall picture better! That's why most of us are using the IRE adjustments and service menu tweaks. The key is to have your brightness set right as to not have any glow. Once achieved, you'll maintain perfect OLED blacks but tease out a little more near black detail.

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post #2188 of 2617 Old 05-27-2017, 07:48 AM
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So Last night I fooled around with my sub b/c on my B6 and had to lower my sub b to 124 to be able to have brightness at 52. Sub b at 128, 127, 126 and 125 all had a slight glow at 52 on my "10 hours of pure black" screen. I had to keep the brightness at 51 to retain no glow with those other numbers. So 124 / 52 seems like my new setting to retain pure black and bring out extra shadow detail. And yes I had bar 17 just barely flashing on the black clipping test video. Crazy how much our panels are different from each other.

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post #2189 of 2617 Old 05-27-2017, 12:22 PM
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So Last night I fooled around with my sub b/c on my B6 and had to lower my sub b to 124 to be able to have brightness at 52. Sub b at 128, 127, 126 and 125 all had a slight glow at 52 on my "10 hours of pure black" screen. I had to keep the brightness at 51 to retain no glow with those other numbers. So 124 / 52 seems like my new setting to retain pure black and bring out extra shadow detail. And yes I had bar 17 just barely flashing on the black clipping test video. Crazy how much our panels are different from each other.
Wow, you have the sub B set to 124? Interesting. Mine seems to work with 127 and brightness 52 but I am using gamma BT 1886 so that is a major difference there. Hey, as long as we are "dialed in" then that's what matters!

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post #2190 of 2617 Old 05-27-2017, 12:36 PM
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Wow, you have the sub B set to 124? Interesting. Mine seems to work with 127 and brightness 52 but I am using gamma BT 1886 so that is a major difference there. Hey, as long as we are "dialed in" then that's what matters!
Yeah I was surprised too! But no changes happened until that 124 setting so I'll try that for a while and see. It was so funny I had my nose up to the screen last night trying to make out the littlest details! I'm also using BT .1886 and love it!
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