SONY to debut consumer OLEDs @CES 2017 - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Sorry, as much as it may pain some to admit it, the G6 (even the E6) is not priced casually, and in comparison to Sony, it is deficient only in the area of motion processing (and standard definition upscaling).
I think his point was Sony no longer competes in the lower end of the market, not that LG doesn't have products at the higher end of the market. IMO Apple's area of the market is by choice and Sony's direction is due to necessity.

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post #482 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 07:03 AM
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What about of Sony av receivers ? Sony speakers? I have friends that know nothing about audio they still think that Sony have the best products.They buy everything that have a Sony logo on it.

And I'll admit it I'm one of those people!!! LOL
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post #483 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 07:20 AM
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No. Samsung's 2017 Flagship will be their new QDCF LCD tech, which replaces classic LCD color filters with Quantum Dots. LG is also apparently coming out with a QDCF LCD but they're positioning it right under their OLED line and they will probably be edge lit. Samsung will probably have both an Edge lit and a FALD QDCF LCD, and both will probably be very expensive.

According to rumors Samsung also plans to demo a real QLED prototype at CES in 2017. I doubt it will be bigger than 20 inches. Who knows if it will even have a Blue QLED, the last and only QLED demo used only Green and Red pixels. It will be cool to see but it shouldn't convince anybody QLED will really be here in 2017.
I've sort of lost track of the next-gen LCD/backlighting/filtering acronyms, where they stand, and what they promise. Do we have a sense for how much better the QDCF displays will be than the current FALD Samsung flagship KS9800 series??
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post #484 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 07:43 AM
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I've sort of lost track of the next-gen LCD/backlighting/filtering acronyms, where they stand, and what they promise. Do we have a sense for how much better the QDCF displays will be than the current FALD Samsung flagship KS9800 series??
Samsung's current QD LCD hybrids are called "QDEF" and the 9500/ 9800 both use that technology. The 9500 is QDEF with Edge Lit dimming and the 9800 is QDEF FALD. QDEF I believe uses a QD layer sandwiched in between the backlight and the LCD layer and still relies on color filters like all LCD's. "QDCF" next year will instead replace the traditional LCD color filters with Quantum Dots. I assume just like this year they will have a cheaper Edge Lit model and a more expensive FALD version. Replacing the color filters themselves has a lot of proposed and hypothetical benefits, theoretically it should make LCD more emissive like with better viewing angles and it will increase the brightness quite a bit. It hasn't yet been demonstrated, though, so we really don't know for sure. There's also 2 different potential designs for QDCF:

The first utilizes just Green and Red QD's in place of the Green and Red color filters while the Blue color will come directly from a Blue backlight. The second actually uses a set of UV LED lights and has full Blue, Green, and Red QD's and no color filter. This second design if done correctly does have some high potential, but I doubt we will see this design next year in Samsung's lineup. Blue QD's whether light activated or emissive still have yet to be used in any consumer applications and there's no promise we will finally see them next year.
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post #485 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 07:48 AM
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Samsung's current QD LCD hybrids are called "QDEF" and the 9500/ 9800 both use that technology. The 9500 is QDEF with Edge Lit dimming and the 9800 is QDEF FALD. QDEF I believe uses a QD layer sandwiched in between the backlight and the LCD layer and still relies on color filters like all LCD's. "QDCF" next year will instead replace the traditional LCD color filters with Quantum Dots. I assume just like this year they will have a cheaper Edge Lit model and a more expensive FALD version. Replacing the color filters themselves has a lot of proposed and hypothetical benefits, theoretically it should make LCD more emissive like with better viewing angles and it will increase the brightness quite a bit. It hasn't yet been demonstrated, though, so we really don't know for sure. There's also 2 different potential designs for QDCF:

The first utilizes just Green and Red QD's in place of the Green and Red color filters while the Blue color will come directly from a Blue backlight. The second actually uses a set of UV LED lights and has full Blue, Green, and Red QD's and no color filter. This second design if done correctly does have some high potential, but I doubt we will see this design next year in Samsung's lineup. Blue QD's whether light activated or emissive still have yet to be used in any consumer applications and there's no promise we will finally see them next year.
Extremely helpful, thank you Vader. I've been on the ledge with a somewhat itchy trigger finger for the 77" OLED or the 88" Samsung, both around the same price now. I know the OLED is better, but the Samsung is obviously much bigger and still a very good (perhaps even great) display and certainly a lot better than what I have now. I've held off on either for a variety of reasons - and now with CES so very close I'm going to sit tight. But the 88" Samsung replacement for 2017 may have my name on it this time next year...

Thanks again.

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post #486 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 07:56 AM
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Well... okay, you can stick with what they say... but remember Nanosy's has consistently said themselves Blue QLED lifetimes are minimum 3-5 years away from being good enough for a functioning consumer QLED TV. This is really crucial because if the expected time for reasonable and stable Blue QLED lifetimes extends past Samsung's claimed 2019 launch date for a consumer QLED TV then the launch date makes no sense. The time frame for stable Blue QLED lifetimes is completely inconsistent with Samsung's 2019 date. Emissive Blue QD's are no where near ready, but once that issue is sorted out it will still likely be a few years before you see a consumer QLED because the lifetime issue is only one challenge with bringing QLED to the consumer, just one of issue in the way of mass producing a new display technology.



This they may know something we don't point isn't really a valid counter argument to any of the points I've made. One could have said the exact same thing about SED in 2005, or when OLED was allegedly going to be launched it 2003, and I'm sure many people did try to argue this at the time against naysayers. What are you suggesting... that they secretly have the Blue lifetime issues worked out? No way they would withhold that information from people. Samsung and Nanosys would both be bragging about it, and Samsung in particular would be throwing it in LG's face.

Samsung also isn't generally known for keeping things secret, as opposed to Sony, and most companies struggle to keep big news secret without it being leaking. I also don't think Samsung would honestly tell us if they knew the 2019 release date isn't possible, and they probably do. Usually these manufacturers PR people throw out these 3-5 years launch dates because they know 90% of people wont even remember what they said by the time the date comes to pass they have nothing to show. Again Samsung has already cried wolf about this back in 2010 saying they can make QLED happen by 2014 or 2015 and barely anybody remembers or acknowledges it... in fact Samsung has a history of delaying stuff, or building up technologies before suddenly sweeping them under the rug and never mentioning them again (Blue Phase LCD comes to mind).
The main thing here for me is that they have stuff they are working on in the lab, they have acces to far more specialised documents than we have, they have their collegues who work for the competition which they have confidential conversations with, they have the overview and the expertise. They not are going to paint a clear picture for us outsiders were they at and were development will be a few years from now in their estimation, they will do that for their bosses only Based upon signals we get we can make some assessments. Samsung insisting on not being part of the OLED TV movement anymore is such a signal. In Samsung's opinion OLED might not going to make it. And maybe them going QLED is them telling we are moving on...and maybe that is all what that is.

What happened in the past, what happened with other TV techs that might give one a indication, on the other hand, things might go different this time.
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post #487 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 08:27 AM
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And I'll admit it I'm one of those people!!! LOL
Well I respect your choice.

For speakers and av receivers I prefer other brand.


I have around 11 different brands in my HT setup.

I have a Sony PS4 slim and an Xbox one S.

I wish I could match everything from the same brand because it looks cool ,but Im extremely happy with my setup.


I think Sony made a very smart move by selling Oleds.

Sony is great at Digital Cameras ,Camcorders and displays ,They focus more on those and pro products.

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post #488 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 08:33 AM
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The main thing here for me is that they have stuff they are working on in the lab, they have acces to far more specialised documents than we have, they have their collegues who work for the competition which they have confidential conversations with, they have the overview and the expertise. They not are going to paint a clear picture for us outsiders were they at and were development will be a few years from now in their estimation, they will do that for their bosses only Based upon signals we get we can make some assessments. Samsung insisting on not being part of the OLED TV movement anymore is such a signal. In Samsung's opinion OLED might not going to make it. And maybe them going QLED is them telling we are moving on...and maybe that is all what that is.

What happened in the past, what happened with other TV techs that might give one a indication, on the other hand, things might go different this time.
I don't want to keep going back and fourth on this forever, and of course you're allowed think differently. You obviously don't believe the 2019 date is a given, you are just more optimistic about it. And I do think QLED will have a different future the SED/ FED ultimately but I do not think we will see it within 5 years any more than I think we will see Fusion power in 20 years. My main point with bringing up SED is not to say QLED will fail like SED did, but simply to point out that a reputable manufacturer can create a target launch date that means nothing.

One thing I wanted to point out, though, is Samsung didn't abandoned OLED for TV's because they thought it would fail. They abandoned it because their method didn't scale well at all to large sizes. Samsung's RGB OLED method wasn't feasible beyond small phones and tablet screen, and LG quickly got ahead of them in the TV market and instead of trying to pursue their rivals technology and accept not being the leader in OLED TV's they decided to pursue something else that they could call their own and maybe be a leader in. They clearly have no problem with OLED in the mobile market where they are the leaders. IMO this was a big mistake for the near future and it will show in a few years. Anybody who seriously doubts OLED has already won the next 10 years as the only viable LCD alternative is misguided. It's success in phones and tablets is undeniable, especially with Apple now fully on board next year. It's success in TV's has been slower but still gaining momentum and with the success LG had this year plus with more and more companies who said the wouldn't pursue OLED (like Apple and Sony) are signing on it's not looking too good for anybody who expected OLED to fail. We're also very close to getting an alternative supplier to LG now with the Skyworth announcement. It also begins to make it's way into Laptop screens (it's had a rough start here, but it's just the beginning). OLED isn't going anywhere for a long time. It may not overtake LCD until 10 years, and it may never overtake LCD but one way or another it's here to stay for a while.
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post #489 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 09:19 AM
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Well I respect your choice.

For speakers and av receivers I prefer other brand.


I have around 11 different brands in my HT setup.

I have a Sony PS4 slim and an Xbox one S.

I wish I could match everything from the same brand because it looks cool ,but Im extremely happy with my setup.


I think Sony made a very smart move by selling Oleds.

Sony is great at Digital Cameras ,Camcorders and displays ,They focus more on those and pro products.
Dont forget Sony makes great AVRs as well! I have the STR DN1070 and its awesome, just google the reviews. I really want STR ZA5000es but its very expensive. I hear you, I have a all Sony HT set up. Hoping to upgrade my TV in 2017. Looking forward to what Sony has in Store.
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post #490 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 10:29 AM
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I don't want to keep going back and fourth on this forever, and of course you're allowed think differently. You obviously don't believe the 2019 date is a given, you are just more optimistic about it. And I do think QLED will have a different future the SED/ FED ultimately but I do not think we will see it within 5 years any more than I think we will see Fusion power in 20 years. My main point with bringing up SED is not to say QLED will fail like SED did, but simply to point out that a reputable manufacturer can create a target launch date that means nothing.
I am not shure. I am not really optimistic or pestimistic here..All i say is give them a fair chance to prove themself. A larger sized QLED prototype within a few years would be enough for me. When we reach that point we can start having conversations about Samsung intentions and mass production. Any sooner does not really makes sense since basically at this point in time all we have is QLED air.
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One thing I wanted to point out, though, is Samsung didn't abandoned OLED for TV's because they thought it would fail. They abandoned it because their method didn't scale well at all to large sizes. Samsung's RGB OLED method wasn't feasible beyond small phones and tablet screen, and LG quickly got ahead of them in the TV market and instead of trying to pursue their rivals technology and accept not being the leader in OLED TV's they decided to pursue something else that they could call their own and maybe be a leader in.
I understand that. They gave it a try and that didn't work out. That was 2014. Now, two years later they could, just like Sony, start buying OLED panels from LG. They did not do that. Instead they seem to have given up OLED and moved on, which is what i am talking about. Somehow Samsung is not really optimistic about OLED TV chances.
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They clearly have no problem with OLED in the mobile market where they are the leaders. IMO this was a big mistake for the near future and it will show in a few years. Anybody who seriously doubts OLED has already won the next 10 years as the only viable LCD alternative is misguided. It's success in phones and tablets is undeniable, especially with Apple now fully on board next year. It's success in TV's has been slower but still gaining momentum and with the success LG had this year plus with more and more companies who said the wouldn't pursue OLED (like Apple and Sony) are signing on it's not looking too good for anybody who expected OLED to fail. We're also very close to getting an alternative supplier to LG now with the Skyworth announcement. It also begins to make it's way into Laptop screens (it's had a rough start here, but it's just the beginning). OLED isn't going anywhere for a long time. It may not overtake LCD until 10 years, and it may never overtake LCD but one way or another it's here to stay for a while.
There are no smaller sized OLED TVs yet. When will we see those (at competitive price points)? Because without those OLED chances will drop significantly in my estimation. As i see it OLED needs to take over from LCd in the TV world, in all sizes that is. Shurely OLED TVs are here to stay for at least a while.

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post #491 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 10:49 AM
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Dont forget Sony makes great AVRs as well! I have the STR DN1070 and its awesome, just google the reviews. I really want STR ZA5000es but its very expensive. I hear you, I have a all Sony HT set up. Hoping to upgrade my TV in 2017. Looking forward to what Sony has in Store.

Not a fan of their speakers and receivers , I own Marantz and Revel speakers. Usually their receivers ratings don't match with real measurements. They tried to enter into the high end speakers but there is too much competition. I don't like their subs ,I have two PSA Sub with dual 15".

but like I said they are great at TVs , camcorders and digital cameras , in both consumers and pro.

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post #492 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 11:09 AM
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I am not shure. I am not really optimistic or pestimistic here..All i say is give them a fair chance to prove themself. A larger sized QLED prototype within a few years would be enough for me. When we reach that point we can start having conversations about Samsung intentions and mass production. Any sooner does not really makes sense since basically at this point in time all we have is QLED air.
If another big electronics manufacturer partners with Samsung on QLED in the next couple of years then I'll soften my harsh stance on the possibility of QLED in the near future. I still won't buy a 2019 release date, nothing will convince me of that unless a day actually comes in 2019 that Samsung actually releases a consumer QLED. I believe right now there is literally maybe a 1% chance of them meeting that date. If somehow Samsung actually pulled it off it would truly be unprecedented in display history. I would have to bow down to Samsung if they actually pulled it off... and I probably would be embarrassed to show my face on AVS for a while. But at present I'm confident enough I don't have to worry about that


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I understand that. They gave it a try and that didn't work out. That was 2014. Now, two years later they could, just like Sony, start buying OLED panels from LG. They did not do that. Instead they seem to have given up OLED and moved on, which is what i am talking about. Somehow Samsung is not really optimistic about OLED TV chances.
My belief on this is Samsung was just too damn stubborn to buy LG WOLED panels and accept LG's technology as superior. LG (along with Apple I guess) are Samsung's main rivals. I don't think they wanted to be perceived as number 2 to LG in the OLED TV market. The fact that they haven't abandoned OLED for Phones and Tablets where they lead in it doesn't prove this but personally convinces me even more. At the time they probably told them selves OLED maybe wasn't such a sure thing, and I guess at the time it wasn't. I think it was a short sighted decision and it's going to cost them in the near future. With Sony and Apple now on board with OLED technology as well as China's future plans to manufacture OLED panels they must be asking themselves if they've done the right thing... though they will never admit this to the press. Not officially.

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There are no smaller sized OLED TVs yet. When will we see those (at competitive price points)? Because without those OLED chances will drop significantly in my estimation. As i see it if OLED needs to take over from LCd in the TV world, in all sizes that is. Shurely OLED TVs are here to stay for at least a while.
The lack of sizes below 55 could be a problem in the future, but it isn't a problem right now because LG only really has to be concerned about the high end market (for the most part). Right now they have to work on bringing the cost of future 77 inch OLED's (the non flexible ones primarily) down to normal prices in the next 2-ish years. They also should look into something larger then 77 inch. Once they've accomplished most of this then I think sizes under 55 will come. At present I just don't think something under 55" is a very important priority, but in the not so far future sizes under 55" is something that will be important to OLED's survival.
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post #493 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 01:46 PM
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2017 or 2018 will be a big differentiator for oled and lcd, if samsung or other manufactures uses the best QD that nanosys has, it might reach ~90% bt.2020 plus the brightness might go 2000+ nits,
i much prefer a FALD lcd with these characteristic than oled.
You're probably not the only one either. At the past couple of NAB Shows, the display that has garnered the most praise and attention has been a FALD -- a 30" Canon 2000 nits prototype.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post33544377

I can't find much info on it and didn't think it was a product that could actually be bought yet. But on another forum, Stacey Spears says it is around $60000 (maybe it's available for lease or something, until the pricing drops to a more realistic level).

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...itor-HDR/page2

That's almost double the price of the Sony BVM X300 OLED.

As evidenced by the Z9D, currently you have to throw a lot of money at an LCD to make it competitive with OLED. Hopefully with Samsung's QD and Panasonic's new high contrast IPS panels, LCDs can keep things competitive both cost and performance-wise. However, I do believe that OLED is the future. Not necessarily because of the PQ (can OLEDs be bright enough to take full advantage of HDR without severely lowering its lifespan?), but because of the form factor. Imagine bringing home a big screen TV in a cardboard tube and hanging it on a wall with magnets. I know it's been predicted for a long time, but it really seems we're not too far off from this scenario becoming a reality.
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post #494 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 01:48 PM
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I thought this was the SONY to debut consumer OLEDs @ces 2017 thread...?
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post #495 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 01:53 PM
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It still is. If you have new news on that subject, please share
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post #496 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 01:55 PM
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As evidenced by the Z9D, currently you have to throw a lot of money at an LCD to make it competitive with OLED. Hopefully with Samsung's QD and Panasonic's new high contrast IPS panels,
That's confirimed to be for professional use only. It's certainly not coming to consumers next year, and I strongly doubt it ever comes to consumers. Panasonic has abandoned consumer panel making.
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post #497 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 02:12 PM
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This they may know something we don't point isn't really a valid counter argument to any of the points I've made.
Also, they probably don't know something we don't here.

If anything, they're probably hyping something fake. Been there before. Many times.
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One could have said the exact same thing about SED in 2005, or when OLED was allegedly going to be launched it 2003, and I'm sure many people did try to argue this at the time against naysayers.
I've been here 20 years. Called many names. Said none of that was real. Was never wrong. Biggest gaffe? Being fooled when Samsung and LG both showed off OLEDs in 2013 that were essentially fakes. Real prototypes, but nothing they could manufacture.

As "The Who" once said, "Won't Get Fooled Again."
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What are you suggesting... that they secretly have the Blue lifetime issues worked out? No way they would withhold that information from people. Samsung and Nanosys would both be bragging about it, and Samsung in particular would be throwing it in LG's face.
Or, a SID paper. Or a patent. Or a material announcement for a small supplier of display "stuff." Doesn't exist.
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Samsung also isn't generally known for keeping things secret, as opposed to Sony, and most companies struggle to keep big news secret without it being leaking. I also don't think Samsung would honestly tell us if they knew the 2019 release date isn't possible, and they probably do. Usually these manufacturers PR people throw out these 3-5 years launch dates because they know 90% of people wont even remember what they said by the time the date comes to pass they have nothing to show.
Samsung still hoping to freeze OLED market either to work out printing (soluble blue + Kateeva devices), figure out different hack for RGB w/o printing, do WOLED it's own way. Also probably watching to see if value remains in TVs. Samsung makes hundreds of millions of phones to capture between 10-30% of smartphone profits. It's a lot of work for pretty small gain. They have to be worried that their easier TV situation is getting fraught with LG skimming all the cream (a la iPhone) and pushing into the profitable segments faster than they can do anything about it.
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My bottom line is what I've been saying right along... Blue QD or no Blue QD it's just too early for this technology and it's not good timing either with a relatively new display like OLED on the rise. It's taken nearly 5 decades (half a century) for every flat panel tech that's ever made it to where LCD and OLED are to get to that level from their original conception in a lab, and every other new envisioned flat panel tech that's been promised to be just 3-4 years away has never made it in those time frames ever. EVER. QD's themselves aren't even 4 decades old yet, they aren't going to break this rule.
If they could build one tomorrow, it wouldn't be price competitive for 5 years. That's just reality 101. Because they can't and because OLED keeps getting cheaper, you can likely push out the date on both ends. I doubt QLED is ever real, but if it is, it likely doesn't compete meaningfully before 2025.
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I've sort of lost track of the next-gen LCD/backlighting/filtering acronyms, where they stand, and what they promise. Do we have a sense for how much better the QDCF displays will be than the current FALD Samsung flagship KS9800 series??
You and me both. But since being enlightened by Vader1 I've been reading up on the potential of Samsung's new QDCF tech and find it intriguing, especially the part about replacing color filters with Quantum Dots. It sounds like a more straight forward development. I still find self-emissive displays more appealing but I'm looking forward to seeing if less light leakage and haloing claims have any validity.
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post #500 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 04:29 PM
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Unfortunately first Sony comments on the OLED TVs will be a few weeks from now..till then there will be no news updates..
https://blog.sony.com/ces/
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post #501 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 04:52 PM
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Unfortunately first Sony comments on the OLED TVs will be a few weeks from now..till then there will be no news updates..
https://blog.sony.com/ces/
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post #502 of 1616 Old 12-14-2016, 09:15 PM
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It'll be interesting to see if Samsung has any surprises in store for the 22017 CES. Do they come out with a Sony Z9D like FALD? Do they shock everyone with an OLED using their source panel? Or even resorting to using a LG panel. Hard to imagine them staying pat and abiding their time with QLED tech? 2025 is an eternity in the tech world but it's also hard to imagine a viable QLED display in the next two/three years. They need to do something in the interim!
Luckily for Samsung they can still take part in the highest nits HDR race (2017 edition). If they could also squeeze UHD Premium certification on their entire range then a large amount of Joe Bloggs types will be all over them, so they can still dominate the important parts of the market if they play it right.

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post #503 of 1616 Old 12-15-2016, 07:43 AM
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so practically the future of transmissive displays isn't bright after all.
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post #504 of 1616 Old 12-15-2016, 07:55 AM
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That's quite an assumption to make that most would get the OLED mainly because of price. I'm not even sure the 65" Z9D has been outselling the 65G6.
Really? Why do you think LCDs 75"+ are outselling the 77" OLED by a huge margin? Do you not agree that the huge price difference is the main reason?
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post #505 of 1616 Old 12-15-2016, 08:39 AM
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I can't comment on the new LG OLED motion processing, but I've owned LG (current 4K), Panny plasma, and 1080P Sony (currently KDL65W). The Sony I have is some of the best motion processing I've seen. It rivals my VT plasma I used to own.

Regardless of market share, Sony is geared towards higher end AV enthusiasts. Samsung and LG have price points that most people feel more comfortable with having in their living room for casual viewing. The iOS and Apple comparisons are silly. Sony is a completely different target market like Apple.
This is a big generalization and not really true. Samsung is currently priced higher than Sony in many countries, including the US where they have the most expensive FALD set available. In fact besides the 77" LG, which is still somewhat a novelty, the Samsung 9800 is the highest priced TV in the mainstream market. Besides Sony, LG, and Samsung all have cheap low end sets you can buy that are crap as well as high end.

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Also, they probably don't know something we don't here.
If anything, they're probably hyping something fake. Been there before. Many times.
Agreed.

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Or, a SID paper. Or a patent. Or a material announcement for a small supplier of display "stuff." Doesn't exist.
Exactly.

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If they could build one tomorrow, it wouldn't be price competitive for 5 years. That's just reality 101. Because they can't and because OLED keeps getting cheaper, you can likely push out the date on both ends. I doubt QLED is ever real, but if it is, it likely doesn't compete meaningfully before 2025.
I think what's most telling is currently besides Samsung we don't have a single other manufacturer who's even mentioned QLED really. Nobody else is actively looking into it and nobody else seems optimistic about it for the near future. Instead we have Apple and Sony now both on board with OLED, both companies who practically swore an oath against it a couple years ago. Apple should bring some new attention to OLED. I don't see any technologies coming out a lab and disrupting OLED's success for a long time.

If QLED is ever gonna be a real thing at some point in the future I bet it's first consumer applications will be in smaller screen devices. LCD and OLED both started out that way, and if QLED is gonna be real someday I think it will start the same way. Use in a few niche small screen devices would be the first sign that it could really be successful one day in the far future. Then we can start guessing when it will launch for bigger screens. But at present there is no promise it ever makes it out of a lab. We don't even have a real prototype! CES 2017 might change that, it's not confirmed but Samsung is expected to show off an emissive QLED at CES. If they do I'm sure Samsung will hype it up and perhaps reinforce their plans to launch in 2019. I'm sure some people here will get excited and probably say us naysayers don't have a clue what we're talking about...

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Interesting. Don't know if I or anybody should get too excited over this, but it has some potential. Maybe it will be enough to keep Sony and Panasonic relevant in the upcoming future and keep them from the same fate as the rest of Japanese electronics. I can only hope.

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You and me both. But since being enlightened by Vader1 I've been reading up on the potential of Samsung's new QDCF tech and find it intriguing, especially the part about replacing color filters with Quantum Dots. It sounds like a more straight forward development. I still find self-emissive displays more appealing but I'm looking forward to seeing if less light leakage and haloing claims have any validity.
QDCF definitely does have potential. I say that as somebody who doesn't much about LCD really. I'm intrigued by the UV Backlit design with full RGB QD's. I think if Samsung does this they need to go all out with the superior design. Still, I doubt we'll see that next year. I could be wrong but Blue QD's are apparently tricky for many different reasons, even light activated, and we haven't seen them used anywhere yet.

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post #506 of 1616 Old 12-15-2016, 08:41 AM
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Really? Why do you think LCDs 75"+ are outselling the 77" OLED by a huge margin? Do you not agree that the huge price difference is the main reason?
Well the price difference at 75" is far far larger than that at 65" right? At full MSRP, the 77" OLED is 2X the price of the ZD9, 2X the price of the KS9800, and 4X (!!!) the price of the 940D. Or thereabouts.

At 65" the LG OLEDs started out higher and are now lower, but at no time, to my knowledge, was the gap in either direction as large as 2X. And even if it were, it'd be a couple thousand/2500 dollars max difference as opposed to $10k-15k.
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post #507 of 1616 Old 12-15-2016, 08:45 AM
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Really? Why do you think LCDs 75"+ are outselling the 77" OLED by a huge margin? Do you not agree that the huge price difference is the main reason?
The 77 inch OLED is obviously an exception. It's still practically a novelty item.
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post #508 of 1616 Old 12-15-2016, 09:02 AM
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Well the price difference at 75" is far far larger than that at 65" right? At full MSRP, the 77" OLED is 2X the price of the ZD9, 2X the price of the KS9800, and 4X (!!!) the price of the 940D. Or thereabouts.

At 65" the LG OLEDs started out higher and are now lower, but at no time, to my knowledge, was the gap in either direction as large as 2X. And even if it were, it'd be a couple thousand/2500 dollars max difference as opposed to $10k-15k.
Right now on amazon the 65 zd9 is 5500, so it's (5500/3000 - 1)* 100 = 83.3% higher than the $3k OLEDs. Maybe it's not 2x the price, but it's pretty close.
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post #509 of 1616 Old 12-15-2016, 09:05 AM
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The 77 inch OLED is obviously an exception. It's still practically a novelty item.
Why is it an exception?
Amazon has 4 in stock right now. Anyone with decent credit can buy one.
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post #510 of 1616 Old 12-15-2016, 09:05 AM
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Right now on amazon the 65 zd9 is 5500, so it's (5500/3000 - 1)* 100 = 83.3% higher than the $3k OLEDs. Maybe it's not 2x the price, but it's pretty close.
Again though, as I said, even if it were 2X, which it's not, there's a humongous difference between a $2500 difference and a $10,000 - $15,000 difference, no matter how you slice it.

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