LG OLED TVs at CES 2017 - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1291 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by t1337Dude View Post
Considering many of us have been waiting nearly that long just for OLED screens to become viable, I think many of us have run out of the patience to wait until the peak/end of OLED to jump in.

And let's be honest, OLED TVs in their relative infancy crush Plasma's despite Plasma's kinks being worked out.
I am just waiting for other comps to start selling OLEDS. Price needs to be around 3k for a 60" before i buy. I don't want a 65" or a 55". As long as my 60VT60 is working i am fine. If it dies i am buying a OLED the same day.

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post #1292 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
Is that a break in period for the C6?
I really didn't research this TV, I didn't need too, after seeing it in the showroom.
It would take me over 3 years to put 2k hours on my set. My 60vt60 has around 2 hours and it is 3.5 years old.

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post #1293 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
It's worth nothing that there's nothing stopping OLED from having better motion, it's just that LG simply is not interested in black frame insertion (at least at this time) since it's my impression that even LG's LCDs do not implement such a thing.

Now the key will be if Sony's OLED TV incorporates it since they very much have supported black-frame insertion on their LCD displays and their professional OLED monitors for several years now.
Inadequate peak brightness is what is always cited for the OLEDs. No excuse on the LCDs though.

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Originally Posted by DrJayDub View Post
If I understand these things, wouldn't BFI reduce overall brightness because you are inserting a black frame? For example, wouldn't brightness go down by 50% if every other frame was a black frame? Please correct me if I got that wrong.

If I got that correct then I would be surprised any OLED manufacturer would do that since the brightness races are on.
Yes it would.

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Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
Seriously. I been saying that for the longest time. It could even be user adjustable so people could decide exactly what balance of motion rez/ brightness they want.
I get that theoretically it could be user adjustable, but I'm not sure how the timing cadence would work out if instead of every other frame it was every 3rd, 4th, or 5th frame or whatever. Are there any sets on the market that do this?

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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
I am just waiting for other comps to start selling OLEDS. Price needs to be around 3k for a 60" before i buy. I don't want a 65" or a 55". As long as my 60VT60 is working i am fine. If it dies i am buying a OLED the same day.
You may be waiting a very long time for a 60".

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post #1294 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
I get that theoretically it could be user adjustable, but I'm not sure how the timing cadence would work out if instead of every other frame it was every 3rd, 4th, or 5th frame or whatever. Are there any sets on the market that do this?
True, good point. I don't think there are any sets that do this but I'm sure it could work somehow, even if it's only user adjustable to a point or something.
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post #1295 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
I am just waiting for other comps to start selling OLEDS. Price needs to be around 3k for a 60" before i buy. I don't want a 65" or a 55". As long as my 60VT60 is working i am fine. If it dies i am buying a OLED the same day.
That is just not a popular size. I would bet it will not happen anytime soon. Most manufacturers charge more for a 60" TV compared to a 65" TV. Why? Supply and demand I guess, easier to sell a 65".
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post #1296 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 08:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
That is just not a popular size. I would bet it will not happen anytime soon. Most manufacturers charge more for a 60" TV compared to a 65" TV. Why? Supply and demand I guess, easier to sell a 65".
Which manufacturers have both sizes for comparable models? I didn't see that pricing back when Sony did. The 60"ers were less than the 65". And even back in the plasma days with Panasonic offering small increments from 42" up, each increment larger was always progressively more expensive.
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post #1297 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Which manufacturers have both sizes for comparable models? I didn't see that pricing back when Sony did. The 60"ers were less than the 65". And even back in the plasma days with Panasonic offering small increments from 42" up, each increment larger was always progressively more expensive.
Any OLED panel made today (and for the foreseeable future) will be sourced from LG...who basically makes them in 3 sizes: 55"/65"/77". Them are the facts, no matter how much you wish for a different size (bigger or smaller).

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post #1298 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 08:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
Any OLED panel made today (and for the foreseeable future) will be sourced from LG...who basically makes them in 3 sizes: 55"/65"/77". Them are the facts, no matter how much you wish for a different size (bigger or smaller).
While that's true, it has nothing to do with what I said. Read my post again.
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post #1299 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
Any OLED panel made today (and for the foreseeable future) will be sourced from LG...who basically makes them in 3 sizes: 55"/65"/77". Them are the facts, no matter how much you wish for a different size (bigger or smaller).
Pesky facts.
Still, I long for a bigger OLED (77) at a smaller price

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post #1300 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 08:42 AM
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Yet, the only real way to view 4K (or 8k...) is with a large screen unit....which is not in majority of people's budget....including network cost of broadcasting....equipment, does this kill 4k/8k?
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post #1301 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
It's worth nothing that there's nothing stopping OLED from having better motion, it's just that LG simply is not interested in black frame insertion (at least at this time) since it's my impression that even LG's LCDs do not implement such a thing.

Now the key will be if Sony's OLED TV incorporates it since they very much have supported black-frame insertion on their LCD displays and their professional OLED monitors for several years now.
The lg in my signature settings which is the 55ub9500 in US has an extra setting in trumotion except the clear, smooth and user defined which called clear plus.
When you choose this you loose half the brightness and its BFI.
I don't use it since it doesn't fix occasionally judder in motion where in user defined and 2/10 im fine.
I suppose LG doesn't know how to implement BFI right.

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post #1302 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
Is that a break in period for the C6?
I really didn't research this TV, I didn't need too, after seeing it in the showroom.
It probably goes for any model. The more time you put on them, the more uniform they become.
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post #1303 of 2064 Old 02-08-2017, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
That is just not a popular size. I would bet it will not happen anytime soon. Most manufacturers charge more for a 60" TV compared to a 65" TV. Why? Supply and demand I guess, easier to sell a 65".
Guess it will have to be a 55" for around 2.5k. Now lets see how much longer my 2000 hour 60vt60 last.

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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
Inadequate peak brightness is what is always cited for the OLEDs.
Very true but not as big of a gripe as some would think. For mid to lower APL specular highlights measure brighter than some eye scorching LCD displays. But it should be noted they sometimes have issues with detail with those specular highlights. Conversely we seem to hear very little how poorly edge-lit LCD displays maintain black levels with specular highlights.

With slighter brighter screens, expected DV disks and supposedly Technicolor HDR working its magic on HDR10 content there should be less complaints of clipping.
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post #1305 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
You may be waiting a very long time for a 60".
Emphasis on "may" since, if reports are accurate, LG is building a Gen10 plant for OLED which would make 60" and 70" displays extremely realistic.
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post #1306 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 03:17 AM
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Guess it will have to be a 55" for around 2.5k. Now lets see how much longer my 2000 hour 60vt60 last.
That's a lot of money for a 55 inch.
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post #1307 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 03:52 AM
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Way too early for me. I waited out plasma for 10 years before buying a Kuro G9.
I thought I would wait for at least 2018 models before getting into OLED, but didn't think LG would do away with 3D.
2018 is a new panel design, who knows what that will be like? The 2017 models didn't offer ground breaking innovation and as far as I'm concerned, the 2017 models increase in brightness is helped by the doing away with the 3D film.
I almost took delivery of the 65 C in November, I decided to cancel and see what 2017 models were.
I am taking delivery of a 65 C on Saturday, price dropped close to 2 grand and the last 3D OLED sealed it for me.
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post #1308 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 05:21 AM
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That's a lot of money for a 55 inch.
Not really compared to what i have spent per display almost every year since the late 80's. I remember paying that for a 32" Sony XBR 100 in 1994. Same for a used Kuro and same for my 60vt60.

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post #1309 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Which manufacturers have both sizes for comparable models? I didn't see that pricing back when Sony did. The 60"ers were less than the 65". And even back in the plasma days with Panasonic offering small increments from 42" up, each increment larger was always progressively more expensive.
Right now on Amazon UN60KS8000 $1999 compared to the UN65KS8000 for $1697
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
Guess it will have to be a 55" for around 2.5k. Now lets see how much longer my 2000 hour 60vt60 last.
Just curious - do you have a built in cabinet or whatever that precludes the 65"?

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Emphasis on "may" since, if reports are accurate, LG is building a Gen10 plant for OLED which would make 60" and 70" displays extremely realistic.
fafrd can speak (much) better to this than I can, but the optimal (for yield) sizes that can be generated by the 10G fab may or may not make 60 and 70 more likely than 55/65/77.

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post #1311 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 11:17 AM
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Just curious - do you have a built in cabinet or whatever that precludes the 65"?



fafrd can speak (much) better to this than I can, but the optimal (for yield) sizes that can be generated by the 10G fab may or may not make 60 and 70 more likely than 55/65/77.
No. Had a 65" VT30 before in the bedroom and it was too big.

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post #1312 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

fafrd can speak (much) better to this than I can, but the optimal (for yield) sizes that can be generated by the 10G fab may or may not make 60 and 70 more likely than 55/65/77.
10G is optimized for 70" (6-up) and 60" (8-up).

The 8.5G LG uses now is optimized for 55" (6-up) and 49" (8-up).

BOE is currently constructing the world's first 10.5G fab optimized for 75" (6-up) and 65" (8-up).

Early rumors were that LG was planning a 9.5G fab which would have been optimized for 65" (6-up) and 55" (8-up), but they seem to now be making reference to 10G rather than 9.5G.

If they do end up going with 10G substrates, the biggest winners will be those hoping for 70", 60", and even 42" and 46" OLEDs to complement the 55", 65", and 77" OLED panel sizes LG is offering today.

And the biggest losers will be those hoping for significant cost reductions on 77" OLEDs. 3 77" OLEDs produced on a 10G substrate will be no less expensive to manufacture than 2 produced on today's 85G substrate.

A 70" OLED panel, by comparison, will cost half as much as a 77" OLED...
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post #1313 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
No. Had a 65" VT30 before in the bedroom and it was too big.
Heathen!

On a more serious note, I wonder if a 4K set wouldn't allow for greater comfort at the larger size?

Personally, I find that TVs shrink over time. Like diamonds. That's why I need to move up from my current 75".

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10G is optimized for 70" (6-up) and 60" (8-up).

The 8.5G LG uses now is optimized for 55" (6-up) and 49" (8-up).

BOE is currently constructing the world's first 10.5G fab optimized for 75" (6-up) and 65" (8-up).

Early rumors were that LG was planning a 9.5G fab which would have been optimized for 65" (6-up) and 55" (8-up), but they seem to now be making reference to 10G rather than 9.5G.

If they do end up going with 10G substrates, the biggest winners will be those hoping for 70", 60", and even 42" and 46" OLEDs to complement the 55", 65", and 77" OLED panel sizes LG is offering today.

And the biggest losers will be those hoping for significant cost reductions on 77" OLEDs. 3 77" OLEDs produced on a 10G substrate will be no less expensive to manufacture than 2 produced on today's 85G substrate.

A 70" OLED panel, by comparison, will cost half as much as a 77" OLED...
Thanks. I knew you'd have the info

So I sit corrected

Also, disappointed as I still don't see the path for meaningfully cheaper OLEDs larger than my current 75" TV.

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post #1314 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
Heathen!

On a more serious note, I wonder if a 4K set wouldn't allow for greater comfort at the larger size?

Personally, I find that TVs shrink over time. Like diamonds. That's why I need to move up from my current 75".



Thanks. I knew you'd have the info

So I sit corrected

Also, disappointed as I still don't see the path for meaningfully cheaper OLEDs larger than my current 75" TV.
I guess if i had anything to watch in 4k i may like 65". I went from a 50" Kuro G9 to the 65vt30 and the Kuro was much better so i sold the 65" pretty fast and went with a 60vt60. The VT60 was much better than the VT30 and close to my Kuro.

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post #1315 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
Heathen!

On a more serious note, I wonder if a 4K set wouldn't allow for greater comfort at the larger size?

Personally, I find that TVs shrink over time. Like diamonds. That's why I need to move up from my current 75".



Thanks. I knew you'd have the info

So I sit corrected

Also, disappointed as I still don't see the path for meaningfully cheaper OLEDs larger than my current 75" TV.
There is a path, it is just unlikely to be a short path. As OLEDs takes hold in the marketplace and continues to take market share from LED/LCD, volumes are likely to be a higher priority than sales $$$s.

That would mean that LG would have a greater incentive to sell more smaller/lower-priced OLEDs than fewer more expensive OLEDs.

On a 10G substrate, LG could produce 2 77" OLEDs, or 18 42" OLEDs (or 15 46" OLEDs). When LG is ready to attack that next lower-sized tier of the TV marketplace, that is likely to be a higher priority than lowering costs of their 77" OLEDs for the very few customers for TVs that size.

As you can see from this IHS data, 40"-49" TVs represent about half of the TV market, and that huge swath of the market is currently out if reach for LG, so there is a good change they will decide to develop OLED panels to expand into that tier of the market before putting similar efforts into lowering the costs of their current 77" flagship or offering even bigger sizes.

At some stage, LG's available capacity will catch up with the 50"-70" and 40"-49" markets they are serving, and then the >70" market will become a priority.

So there is a path, it's just not a very good path for the impatient .
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post #1316 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 01:26 PM
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Ain't nobody got time for long paths.
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post #1317 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 01:59 PM
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I guess we have first blood on the 65B7P:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post50621985

I was so happy without HDR...

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post #1318 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 02:22 PM
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I guess we e first blood on the 65B7P:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post50621985
"Fake news"?...
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post #1319 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 02:42 PM
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"Fake news"?...
Not sure. The guy started a thread using the 65B7P on the title and so far has not confirmed it was a typo.

I was so happy without HDR...
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post #1320 of 2064 Old 02-09-2017, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
Not sure. The guy started a thread using the 65B7P on the title and so far has not confirmed it was a typo.
The B7P is the Costco-exclusive model - it is almost certainly a typo or a mistake.
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