ARE THEY STUPID?HDMI 2.1 supports 8K, 10K, dynamic HDR and requires a new cable - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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ARE THEY STUPID?HDMI 2.1 supports 8K, 10K, dynamic HDR and requires a new cable

The next version of the HDMI standard is version 2.1. It supports up to 10K resolution, dynamic HDR, adaptive frame rate and 4K at 120fps. However, to enable the new features a new 48G cable is required.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1483572084
Mid 2017 for HDMI 2.1? WAIT I will buy a 2017 TV and have it obsolete by the end of the year!
WHO THINKS THIS WAY?
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post #2 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 06:17 AM
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Welcome to the neverending cluster fck of HDMI.
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post #3 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 06:24 AM
 
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Well, this is a HUGE step.

Hard to improved much over an existing cable.
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post #4 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
The next version of the HDMI standard is version 2.1. It supports up to 10K resolution, dynamic HDR, adaptive frame rate and 4K at 120fps. However, to enable the new features a new 48G cable is required.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1483572084
Mid 2017 for HDMI 2.1? WAIT I will buy a 2017 TV and have it obsolete by the end of the year!
WHO THINKS THIS WAY?
It's only "obsolete" if you actually need any of the 2.1 spec features, which on any current panel you don't.

You can already pass 4k 60 hz with dynamic HDR over current HDMI 2.0a.

8k is going to be a very very hard sell.

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post #5 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by EF9500 View Post
Welcome to the neverending cluster fck of HDMI.
I HATE HDMI and its specs. Effing obnoxious. I hope something comes along and replaces that crap. UGH!
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post #6 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by EF9500 View Post
Welcome to the neverending cluster fck of HDMI.
Just like most every technological product these days. By the time a nano second or two has passed after you have paid for it, it is obsolete.
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post #7 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 08:16 AM
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And I just caught up to all things HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2. I will ride this setup for as long as I can. I mean there is not enough content for 4K yet! At least we had enough 720P/1080i/1080P content soon after 1080P TVs. 4K is still a splurge that you can live without.

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post #8 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
I HATE HDMI and its specs. Effing obnoxious. I hope something comes along and replaces that crap. UGH!
Whatever they would replace HDMI with would do the same thing. I just wish they could agree with a single connector to do everything. USB isn't the answer since the latest USB standard (3.1) is only now doing ~10 Gbps, which is what HDMI 1.4 was capable of.
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post #9 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 08:54 AM
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HDMI 2.0b has everything what we need for 24fps content, which is the current frame rate used for shooting feature movies. Studios can remaster all past 24fps movies at UHD, BT.2020 ( P3 inside ),10/12/16 bit, 4:4:4 color sampling and they can do that with HDR10 ( static ) or Dolby Vision ( dynamic ). HDMI 2.0b supports also HLG format, suited for broadcasting.

The problem with HDMI 2.0b is with delivering 50/60/120fps at 4k, BT.2020, 4k, 10/12/16-bit per color, 4:4:4, HDR ( both static or dynamic ). HDMI 2.0b does not support dynamic HDR10. Only Dolby Vision offers this capability, because metadata encoding works differently and it doesnt rely on HDMI standard. Second problem is with the ecosystem. HDMI 2.0b has limited bandwith for audio and video, so PQ is compromised especially with 50/60fps and future 120 fps content.

HDMI 2.1 offers finally a proper connectivity to make shooting and distributing very high quality content in the future possible. That is: 120fps BT.2020 ( also as a container ), 4k/8k, 10/12/16-bit per color, 4:4:4 sampling, HDR ( both static or dynamic ).

I personally look forward how HDMI 2.1 impacts Ultra HD blu-ray specifications.
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post #10 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 09:01 AM
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This should have been done years ago instead of now. Frankly the home theater market should have just gone with DisplayPort.
The whole HDMI situation has always been obnoxious and problematic. Then compound the issues with all the HDCP & handshake garbage.
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post #11 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 09:03 AM
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Yes, we're all stupid and will buy hdmi 2.1 LOL. Even 10 years from now local stations still can barley broadcast in 4K I bet. Dam so much for 2017 products not even out yet and outdated already.
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post #12 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
The next version of the HDMI standard is version 2.1. It supports up to 10K resolution, dynamic HDR, adaptive frame rate and 4K at 120fps. However, to enable the new features a new 48G cable is required.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1483572084
Mid 2017 for HDMI 2.1? WAIT I will buy a 2017 TV and have it obsolete by the end of the year!
WHO THINKS THIS WAY?
Well. I guess you're thinking this way. The fact that progress is moving exponentially, does that mean that manufacturers should halt bringing product to market, until.....until when? Your TV isn't obsolete, your way of looking at it is. Your mindset is being driven by an unregulated consumer engineering phenomenon. Can you not be happy with a product that is better than the last, and at the same time live with a product that is behind the cutting edge of......lets say next week, let alone 5 years?

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post #13 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 09:58 AM
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Avatar 2 will be at 24-120 FPS VFR I bet. It will drive the adoption like it did with 3D HDTV's at the time
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post #14 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 10:04 AM
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Why are you guys getting all emo about HDMI 2.1? First off, HDMI is awesome, I've never had any issues with it. HDMI CEC, ARC, etc. all work great. Second, I'm glad they are taking a BIG step forward then all the retarded baby steps they've taken with 2.0. 10.2Gbps -> 18Gbps was a joke. 18Gbps -> 48Gbps is a nice big juicy jump. Only reason you would get pissed off at buying new cables is if you bought stupid expensive cables like AudioQuest Diamonds. Most people have $10 18Gbps Monoprice cables. Besides, like the one poster said, you don't need 2.1 any time soon.
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post #15 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by fwrigley View Post
Whatever they would replace HDMI with would do the same thing. I just wish they could agree with a single connector to do everything. USB isn't the answer since the latest USB standard (3.1) is only now doing ~10 Gbps, which is what HDMI 1.4 was capable of.
I'd like to see everything in the A/V space move to USB-C/Thunderbolt like it is in the computing space. Thunderbolt 3 offers 40 Gb/s here and now and Thunderbolt 4 will likely offer 80. No reason A/V needs to lag behind in transfer speed.
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post #16 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 12:37 PM
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Regardless of the type of cable, they're all fundamentally the same. They're a collection of single copper cables bound together into one cable. Optical is the exception.

The difference is the specific data assigned to each individual copper cable. We would have the same issues regardless of what end connector we used.

I never understood why we just don't use an optical cable for everything since, in theory, it can handle way more bandwidth than copper cables. Maybe is has something to do with distance or flexibility.
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post #17 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 12:55 PM
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so does this mean i should hold off on buying a new a/v receiver and wait til next years batch has hdmi 2.1?
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post #18 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Regardless of the type of cable, they're all fundamentally the same. They're a collection of single copper cables bound together into one cable. Optical is the exception.

The difference is the specific data assigned to each individual copper cable. We would have the same issues regardless of what end connector we used.

I never understood why we just don't use an optical cable for everything since, in theory, it can handle way more bandwidth than copper cables. Maybe is has something to do with distance or flexibility.
They aren't really. Not at all. A phone cord for example is 2 straight wires. An ethernet cable is 4 twisted pairs. Just twisting the pairs has a massive effect on the cable. A Cat6 cable has twisted pairs and a buffer to seperate the pairs completely. Twists and buffers allow you to go faster for longer distances and minimize cross-talk.

Optical cables were just a fad. Good ones (glass) are very expensive to make. Current TosLink is only 125Mbps vs 48Gbps on the new hdmi cables. Plastic optical cables are also limited to very short lengths.
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post #19 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mike Colbourne View Post
Well. I guess you're thinking this way. The fact that progress is moving exponentially, does that mean that manufacturers should halt bringing product to market, until.....until when? Your TV isn't obsolete, your way of looking at it is. Your mindset is being driven by an unregulated consumer engineering phenomenon. Can you not be happy with a product that is better than the last, and at the same time live with a product that is behind the cutting edge of......lets say next week, let alone 5 years?
The middle of this year is not the next. This same nonsense happen with HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.
You can ask all those people who bought a new TV only to have it obsolete in 6 months.
The timing of HDMI with this news is stupid,it amazes me that TV manufactures don't all go to display port and stick it to HDMI!
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post #20 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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It's only "obsolete" if you actually need any of the 2.1 spec features, which on any current panel you don't.

You can already pass 4k 60 hz with dynamic HDR over current HDMI 2.0a.

8k is going to be a very very hard sell.
LG has already shown off a 120 FPS prototype OLED. The gamesters would love 4K 120FPS.
CES shows off all the new TV'S for coming year and for HDMI to say, oh by the way, (in the middle of the year), we will have a new standard, HDMI 2.1, so you can suck it up and be left behind in 6 months, is nuts, they should have waited until June to announce the new standard,not January. I think this makes TV manufacturers look stupid or they think we are stupid,oh by the way I have a Edsel for you to drive too .
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post #21 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 02:14 PM
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Why are you guys getting all emo about HDMI 2.1? First off, HDMI is awesome, I've never had any issues with it. HDMI CEC, ARC, etc. all work great.
I'm glad to hear HDMI-CEC and ARC work great for someone! For many of us it's a cesspool of failure, incompatibilities, planned obsolescence, and unnecessary expense.
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post #22 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 02:22 PM
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The middle of this year in not the next. This same nonsense happen with HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.
You can ask all those people who bought a new TV only to have it obsolete in 6 months.
The timing of HDMI with this news is stupid,it amazes me that TV manufactures don't all go to display port and stick it to HDMI!
I guess you have to consider where you are, personally, in the scheme of things. I hadn't bought a new TV for five years and a computer for + seven years. I just bought both, and I'm happy to be "left behind" for another 5 years. I now own a 4K 3D TV w/ HDR (without HDR over HDMI) and a cutting edge i7 64GB ASUS Rampage V Edition 10. Both of which will keep me happy for another five years.
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post #23 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 03:40 PM
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I'm glad to hear HDMI-CEC and ARC work great for someone! For many of us it's a cesspool of failure, incompatibilities, planned obsolescence, and unnecessary expense.
Expense? Its cheaper to run a HDMI cable which you need to run anyways then to run a second optical cable which can't even transport the new audio formats. As far as CEC... the only hiccup I have is a bug in the B6 (and the EF9500) where they are sending an erroneous TV Audio command to the AVR. My AVR has a flag to ignore it since apperently its a common issue... but once I set that flag, everything works fine except having to switch over the AVR to TV Audio manually on the rare occasion I use it. I much prefer the 1 button on / 1 button off / auto play / etc. functions. Cheaper then buying a macro remote.
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post #24 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mike Colbourne View Post
I guess you have to consider where you are, personally, in the scheme of things. I hadn't bought a new TV for five years and a computer for + seven years. I just bought both, and I'm happy to be "left behind" for another 5 years. I now own a 4K 3D TV w/ HDR (without HDR over HDMI) and a cutting edge i7 64GB ASUS Rampage V Edition 10. Both of which will keep me happy for another five years.
In the scheme of things, a TV should be good from CES to CES show. IT'S the way HDMI handles new releases, that's the problem.
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post #25 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 07:36 PM
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I just want OLED with input support for either of the following:

1080p 120Hz 4:4:4
2160p 120Hz 4:2:0

Is that too much to ask? It's getting kind of annoying to have to use a CRT in 2017 just to have good black levels in the dark with a 100+Hz refresh rate...

 

(VR headsets don't count)

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post #26 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 07:48 PM
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Thumbs down

So you're telling me that the Sony 4K that I just bought in October that comes with HDMI 2.0a won't allow me to watch whatever requires HDMI 2.1 later this year? This coupled with Sony's OLED announcement makes me kinda feel like I got screwed.
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post #27 of 194 Old 01-05-2017, 07:53 PM
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I just want OLED with input support for either of the following:

1080p 120Hz 4:4:4
2160p 120Hz 4:2:0

Is that too much to ask? It's getting kind of annoying to have to use a CRT in 2017 just to have good black levels in the dark with a 100+Hz refresh rate...

 

(VR headsets don't count)
I was using a Sony Trinitron KD-30XS955 up until October when it started dying on me. It was one of the widescreen, 1080i sets. Beautiful image.

I feel a little bummed out that it died now because of this HDMI 2.1 and Sony's OLED announcement.
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post #28 of 194 Old 01-06-2017, 11:30 AM
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So you're telling me that the Sony 4K that I just bought in October that comes with HDMI 2.0a won't allow me to watch whatever requires HDMI 2.1 later this year? This coupled with Sony's OLED announcement makes me kinda feel like I got screwed.
What do you think will require HDMI 2.1 later this year? There's no > 4k content to speak of, no media with high enough frame rates, and no GPU's with HDMI 2.1. So, what do you think you'll be missing?

Moreover, it was already said that some of the HDMI 2.1 features, depending on implementation, can be patched into an HDMI 2.0 device. The chipset may not support enough bandwidth for super high frame rate (or 4:4:4) transfer, but if you don't need that, then as long as your device is patched, who cares?

Finally, even if you device isn't patched, what features from HDMI 2.1 do you think you'll need in a year's time?
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post #29 of 194 Old 01-06-2017, 05:01 PM
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Expense? Its cheaper to run a HDMI cable which you need to run anyways then to run a second optical cable which can't even transport the new audio formats. As far as CEC... the only hiccup I have is a bug in the B6 (and the EF9500) where they are sending an erroneous TV Audio command to the AVR. My AVR has a flag to ignore it since apperently its a common issue... but once I set that flag, everything works fine except having to switch over the AVR to TV Audio manually on the rare occasion I use it. I much prefer the 1 button on / 1 button off / auto play / etc. functions. Cheaper then buying a macro remote.
Yeah, expense ... the $2000 I've spent on my AVR and the $500 I've spent on an HDMI matrix switch - that have both been obsoleted. And I've probably spent $300 on "inexpensive" HDMI cables over the years, but hey, the high-speed ones are at least 4K compatible.
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post #30 of 194 Old 01-06-2017, 05:13 PM
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Yeah, expense ... the $2000 I've spent on my AVR and the $500 I've spent on an HDMI matrix switch - that have both been obsoleted. And I've probably spent $300 on "inexpensive" HDMI cables over the years, but hey, the high-speed ones are at least 4K compatible.
You've spent $300 on HDMI cables? A 6ft 18Gbps Monoprice cable is $10.58. You've bought 28 of those? If you are buying $50+ HDMI cables, sorry, but that's your own fault. You need to understand digital -- the bits either get there or they don't. There's no in between.
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