2016 LG model OLED motion settings - Page 30 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #871 of 2218 Old 06-01-2017, 05:10 PM
 
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I repeated 1080p over 60Hz from Raspberry Pi.

RC n/a TM off - fail 24fps test but perfect 3:2 pulldown checker board.
RC n/a TM on DJ 0, DB 0 same as above, no difference at all.
RC n/a TM on DJ 1, DB 0 PASS perfect even grey squares.

I have it set up right now. Let me know quick if you need something specific checked.
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post #872 of 2218 Old 06-01-2017, 05:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
The panel is always displaying at 120 Hz. It's is native and only frame rate.

It's will just repeat frame depending on the frame rate.
Something is not quite right. It should pass the test with all settings off. The wavy pattern is about a second in cycle.

I'm going to throw this test on again 1080p 24fps 24Hz RC off.
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post #873 of 2218 Old 06-01-2017, 05:31 PM
 
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OK, I have to take back some of the things I said. I should have double check before making assumptions.

1080p 24fps test to 24Hz display output.

RC off, TM off - test fails but this give me perfect checker board. It appear to be doing some sort of 3:2 or similar pulldown.
Maybe it is internally 60Hz

RC on, TM off - pass equally grey squares.
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post #874 of 2218 Old 06-01-2017, 05:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 3DBuff View Post
Something is not quite right. It should pass the test with all settings off. The wavy pattern is about a second in cycle.

I'm going to throw this test on again 1080p 24fps 24Hz RC off.
With real Cinema off it just does a simple 6:4 pulldown.

Some people do love it so, it's normal to give that possibility.
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post #875 of 2218 Old 06-01-2017, 05:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
With real Cinema off it just does a simple 6:4 pulldown.

Some people do love it so, it's normal to give that possibility.
OK, makes sense. Did you try DJ1?
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post #876 of 2218 Old 06-01-2017, 06:21 PM
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I had been guessing it did 3:2 pulldown doubled since their framework was probably built around a 60hz panel and it would be simpler that way. Which means like wxman says, it probably doesn't do it quite as well as the player if there's a noticeable difference between the 2 (which I think there is).
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post #877 of 2218 Old 06-01-2017, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 3DBuff View Post
OK, makes sense. Did you try DJ1?
Yes same result.

But according to Rtings, the C E could do 24p over 60i where the B6 could not. Probably your chip is better with that. Good new for you people.

I don't really care because i like Dejudder at 3, but for people who like true 24P cadence, that a great discovery.
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post #878 of 2218 Old 06-01-2017, 07:27 PM
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Okay, so after reading 3DBuff's posts about how at DJ1 passed the test I was curious why I failed. I tried the 0/0, fail. Then I put it to 1/0. Pass! Wtf.. so I then tried 2/0: Pass!, 5/0 Pass, 10/0 Pass!, 10/10 PASS!.. Okay this doesn't line up with yesterday. Then I remembered that when I started the test yesterday, it was Game mode. So I switched it to Expert Dark (yesterday), ran the tests, and a whole lot of fail. Today, I switch to Game mode. Do a test which TM is off and fails as expected. Then I switched back to Expert Dark, close the menu, and run the test. It fails. I check the menu, it's still on 10/10 but failing. I move the slider to 1/0, close the menu and run the test again.. Now it passes. So LG's firmware seems buggy.

No tripod so its a bit blurry with 1 sec exposure, and theres a lamp reflection to the right of the screen.

Heres a 10/10 pass.


A 1/0 pass.


A 0/0 fail.


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post #879 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 07:59 AM
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Yes LG's firmware is buggy. I found that by switching to HDR Effect mode then back to Expert Dark Room I got better motion. YMMV.
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post #880 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Ok I should of been more clear.

Turn screen shift off. Exit out

Unplug tv. Hold power button in until you hear a few clicks than wait for last red light to flash. If you don't compress the button straight down you'll have to start process over again. Plug tv back in than unplug it. Start over.

Than just plug tv back in and your done. B6 button is in the middle.

I was told to do this because even turning off screen shift wasn't enough. This was the procedure that he said you need to insure it takes affect.

With this setting on you cant ever see tv shifting like you could on some plasma tvs. What it does it make things unclear and just blurry at times.
Thank you Timothy1180, I tried the screen shift off / factory reset on my 65" E6P last night and I do think it made a difference. I was getting some absolutely horrible judder on 1080i cable channels and this procedure seems to have cleared it up by at least 90%. Don't know if it mattered but before I did the reset I also turned off all motion processing and it's still off. After the reset I did experimented with dejudder and deblur settings but they both introduced unacceptable artifacts, even with a setting of 1, so I shut them off. I don't think the Cinema setting made any difference so I've left it off too.


Now I'm thinking add in the Korean FW update and all might be good! I'm going to wait a while to see if LG releases a US version but if it's not out pretty soon I'll go Korean.
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post #881 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
With real Cinema off it just does a simple 6:4 pulldown.

Some people do love it so, it's normal to give that possibility.
When the player does the 3:2 pulldown and sends 4K60 to tv, the tv thinks its getting a 60 fps image and performs a 2:2 pulldown. That may be why motion appears better than when the tv performs 6:4.
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post #882 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
When the player does the 3:2 pulldown and sends 4K60 to tv, the tv thinks its getting a 60 fps image and performs a 2:2 pulldown. That may be why motion appears better than when the tv performs 6:4.
@wxman you're using these settings on the oppo 203 player right?

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post #883 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:20 AM
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@wxman you're using these settings on the oppo 203 player right?
Yes. I set it to output everything at 4K60
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post #884 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:28 AM
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Yes. I set it to output everything at 4K60
Ok cool! I haven't gotten mine yet but I'll probably need your help once I get it. It doesn't sound to complicated but just in case. LOL!

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post #885 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:33 AM
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Ok cool! I haven't gotten mine yet but I'll probably need your help once I get it. It doesn't sound to complicated but just in case. LOL!
Glad to help! And also set player to 4:2:2 12 bit instead of 4:4:4 12 bit, as 4:4:4 produces banding with UHD movies on these OLED panels.
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post #886 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Glad to help! And also set player to 4:2:2 12 bit instead of 4:4:4 12 bit, as 4:4:4 produces banding with UHD movies on these OLED panels.
I don't get banding at 4:4:4 12 bit.

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post #887 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:39 AM
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Glad to help! And also set player to 4:2:2 12 bit instead of 4:4:4 12 bit, as 4:4:4 produces banding with UHD movies on these OLED panels.
Will do thank you!

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post #888 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Glad to help! And also set player to 4:2:2 12 bit instead of 4:4:4 12 bit, as 4:4:4 produces banding with UHD movies on these OLED panels.
so the oppo is 4:2:2 12bit / custom resolution / uhd 60hz?

and along with that, what settings for RC/TM on blurays on the OLED?
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post #889 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:50 AM
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so the oppo is 4:2:2 12bit / custom resolution / uhd 60hz?

and along with that, what settings for RC/TM on blurays on the OLED?
For me on the B6 I only have RC on. I'm not a fan of the Tru Motion at all so I leave TM off.

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post #890 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
so the oppo is 4:2:2 12bit / custom resolution / uhd 60hz?

and along with that, what settings for RC/TM on blurays on the OLED?
Correct with the OPPO. Sending 60hz to tv will grey out RC, and I leave TM off. One suggestion was TM at DJ 1 and DB 0, but I havent tested that as of yet. The reason you set the OPPO to 4:2:2 with 60HZ is because HDMI spec won't allow 4K60 to be passed at anything but 8 bit when set to 4:4:4.
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post #891 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 08:34 PM
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Ok not sure what's going on but on my B6 I can have Real Cinema on and also have Tru Motion User on? I thought you could only have one or the other on and not both?

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post #892 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 09:32 PM
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Ok not sure what's going on but on my B6 I can have Real Cinema on and also have Tru Motion User on? I thought you could only have one or the other on and not both?
That's normal with 1080i.
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post #893 of 2218 Old 06-02-2017, 11:15 PM
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That's normal with 1080i.
Thanks wxman. Yeah I was watching the French Open on DirecTV which was 1080i. When I put the Logan Blu Ray in then I had to choose one or the other, RC or Tru motion.

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post #894 of 2218 Old 06-03-2017, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DBuff View Post
I repeated 1080p over 60Hz from Raspberry Pi.

RC n/a TM off - fail 24fps test but perfect 3:2 pulldown checker board.
RC n/a TM on DJ 0, DB 0 same as above, no difference at all.
RC n/a TM on DJ 1, DB 0 PASS perfect even grey squares.

I have it set up right now. Let me know quick if you need something specific checked.
Hi. I've been reading your tests with interest because, like you, when watching streamed media I could swear I see judder not just frame to frame but back and forth. 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

I recorded the worst panning test scene from Sneaky Pete at lowly 60fps and playing back at /10 speed you can see the vertical edges on every other frame is not equal to the previous or next frame.

I will try your DJ1 settings.

Quick question, when you've been testing 24p and 24p over 60 have you been using the film native 23.976 and 59.940 or the whole numbers which actually is quite rare to get in real content.

I'm on the latest UK firmware which is actually after the Korean firmware but there's some disagreement whether it includes the motion fix.

Thanks
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post #895 of 2218 Old 06-03-2017, 04:57 AM
 
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Hi. I've been reading your tests with interest because, like you, when watching streamed media I could swear I see judder not just frame to frame but back and forth. 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

I recorded the worst panning test scene from Sneaky Pete at lowly 60fps and playing back at /10 speed you can see the vertical edges on every other frame is not equal to the previous or next frame.

I will try your DJ1 settings.

Quick question, when you've been testing 24p and 24p over 60 have you been using the film native 23.976 and 59.940 or the whole numbers which actually is quite rare to get in real content.

I'm on the latest UK firmware which is actually after the Korean firmware but there's some disagreement whether it includes the motion fix.

Thanks
Chris
Some people including myself do see this back and forth frame pulling until you add DJ to settle it down and take the edge of the choppiness in the video. I will make more videos and post it here in this forum. I'm sure as collective mind we get to the bottom of it.

Latest firmware doesn't have fix for the motion artifacts. It is only improvement to DJ and DB in my opinion from what I tested. DJ 1 will introduce artifacts on the specific test patterns. When watching movies it does not appear to be a problem when used at lower settings. The result with DJ 4 and DB 10 is very pleasing with the new firmware.

Recording of the OLED screen is a bit difficult. We would need commercial high speed cameras. Typical consumer equipment does not have functionality for slow motion. Home video cameras store videos in compressed format most likely mp4 (h264). You only get few key frames per second in this file. If you don't play it at full speed you end up with key frames only, one at the time. Slowing down mp4 video just a bit gets very choppy. Try it.

Second issue at least on my camera is that it is from 2008 and the HD is 1080i. It records and plays back half interlaced frame at 60fps. When I pause it shows 2 key frames together to make one image. These frames were far apart as key frames.
We get deeper into to it when I get the time to make new videos of the OLED screen in action

24 or 23.976. After downloading the the test file from RTINGS I had a closer look at the codec data. The file is 24fps even.
Using Raspberry Pi I can select different screen refresh rates similar to computer. LG E6 has full set of video resolutions and refresh rates available including 23.976, 24, 25, 30, 59.9, 60 from what I remember. The test was on 24Hz automatic and manually set. No difference. 60Hz was manually set.

From what I see using quarter speed slow motion from my camera the frames are not shaking. The only way you get this back and forth movement would be if the white object moving forward brightens up more at initial charge and dims back down in a fraction of a second. The frame behind area going black would need to go black and flash back some residue of static voltage. Or it's our brain reacting to pulsing movement and some image retention in the eye as the frames are flashing one at the time.
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post #896 of 2218 Old 06-03-2017, 05:14 AM
 
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....
I recorded the worst panning test scene from Sneaky Pete at lowly 60fps and playing back at /10 speed you can see the vertical edges on every other frame is not equal to the previous or next frame.

.....

Thanks
Chris
You are recording 24fps film material using 60fps camera. Every second frame will be longer compared to other frames. This the 3:2 pulldown that we all talk about.
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post #897 of 2218 Old 06-03-2017, 07:41 AM
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Anyone know or have a guess as to what the Smooth and Clear settings are set to? Is it 1 DJ? 5? 10?


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post #898 of 2218 Old 06-03-2017, 07:47 AM
 
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Anyone know or have a guess as to what the Smooth and Clear settings are set to? Is it 1 DJ? 5? 10?


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No. It's a combination of DJ and DB in both cases or perhaps some other functions to go with it.
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post #899 of 2218 Old 06-03-2017, 08:27 AM
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No. It's a combination of DJ and DB in both cases or perhaps some other functions to go with it.


Thanks, 3D!

So this morning I put on the aforementioned Hell or High Water on Netflix. Wish I never found this thread lol. Seems like it's a matter of what you're willing to compromise on. I tried RC on, RC off and then all sorts of combinations with TM on User, going as low as 1,0 and as high as 10,10. At first, RC on or off that opening slow pan was...Headache inducing. Man, it was jumping all over the place and "flickering"? I don't know the terminology as well as some of you do.

Long story short, both the Smooth and the Clear presets cleaned alot of this up. As did TM on User and anything north of 4 or so on DJ, but with a moderate to heavy dose of SOE Which I actually don't hate as much as I thought I would. I was ready to just settle in with either if those settings so I let the scene play out.

Man did that go to hell in a hurry. Any moderately quick moving scene introduced alot of artifacts. Too much for my liking personally. Where I originally thought Clear would be my long term solution, it just....Isn't.

So I'm kind of stuck but leaning towards just leaving RC on and being done with it. I don't want to be fiddling with stuff every time I watch something other than sports. FWIW, I have the E6.


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post #900 of 2218 Old 06-03-2017, 08:45 AM
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So this morning I put on the aforementioned Hell or High Water on Netflix. Wish I never found this thread lol.
It would be great if we could optimize motion for all situations, but we need to keep in mind that there's a responsibility on the director to not push the boundaries of what can be captured with a 24fps camera and on everyone involved in post-processing not to make things worse.

Specifically I'd be hesitant to use anything Netflix produces as a benchmark. It's too bad as they're an early adopter of 4K and HDR, but I think they're still working their way up the learning curve and doing so without the budget and discipline of a major studio.
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