2017 LG OLED ABL. Oled still a Niche. - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 09:38 AM
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I'm surprised the Q7F can't get bright enough for you. I can't fathom why they have ABL unless it's to protect the QDs. That has to be a settings issue or something that needs adjusting in the SM.

I'm also a little surprised the KRP gives you less noticeable ABL than the B6. It's the first report I've heard of such.
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post #482 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 12:09 PM
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I think because they are using emisdive QD as backlight instead of led, which would require an ABL circuit I believe.

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post #483 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 01:21 PM
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The OP might say that LED has become just a niche

I don't think that a lot of people would buy a TV mainly for watching winter sports or sunny beaches. I would think most consumers are interested in other types of content ... so wouldn't actually the limited appeal content be the "niche" one???
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post #484 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nodixe View Post
I think because they are using emisdive QD as backlight instead of led, which would require an ABL circuit I believe.

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I was not aware that they were using emissive tech yet. I thought all the Q series were edge lit using LEDs still...

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post #485 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post
I was not aware that they were using emissive tech yet. I thought all the Q series were edge lit using LEDs still...
They are edge lit. This thread is so full of FUD it's time to let it die.
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post #486 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 07:20 PM
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No Patsfan123 your wrong man, this thread is full of true justified FUD about the OLED low luminance and the bad ABL that it still has, and its time to let the ABL DIE and not the "FUD" of this thread.

Look at this screenshot from ALMA youtube videos, dont forget that its behind a camera so it looks even brighter than the "real eye" view, and see how the annoying ABL is being displayed very well, even some with the Q7 QLED despite that the picture looks pretty good [not even talking about the annoying dimmed pic and the awful ABL of the B6]

The satellite should look much whiter and sparkle with a CRT or LED, almost the same as the top left corner clouds, this is the best example for an ABL issue. If the sattelite was 30-40% bigger it would look even more dimmed.

My KRP shows it much better than the OLED and even almost the same+- level as the Q7 QLED cause of the 240 ABL and 185 VOL_SUS settings i did in the service menu.

[I will post some comparison pictures of my tvs very soon, guess next week to prove what im talking about, not having my smartphone right now to take some pics cause gave it to my sister for a few days till monday after she lost her, u can joke but m really not excusing like excuses of grade 3 lol, its the truth and i promise i will show some i have an old tablet or logitech webcam to take some pics but the quality will look very bad or even awful and grainy so i prefer to not]
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post #487 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 08:34 PM
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All the pictures in the world cant change what I've experienced in person and in my opinion OLED is easily king, abl and all. And I honestly thought they were using blue and yellow emissive QD and a filter or sump for the QLED backlight. Didn't mean to spread false info. It really is time to let this thread die since argueing about it wont change the reality of the situation.....

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post #488 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I dont think you quite grasp infinite contrast. Unless you like to watch full white screens all the time, your point is moot.
Infinite contrast! Lol
I like OLEDs and LEDs for different reasons, different rooms of the house and different times of day/night, but please don't repeat that "infinite contrast" marketing nonsense. Contrast is the brightest bright and the darkest dark, and every shade of grey between. If it was "infinite" it would never stop getting brighter, it would just burn your retinas out and keep going... may as well divide by zero
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post #489 of 511 Old 06-28-2017, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by UnfoldingSquid View Post
Infinite contrast! Lol
I like OLEDs and LEDs for different reasons, different rooms of the house and different times of day/night, but please don't repeat that "infinite contrast" marketing nonsense. Contrast is the brightest bright and the darkest dark, and every shade of grey between. If it was "infinite" it would never stop getting brighter, it would just burn your retinas out and keep going... may as well divide by zero
I'm sorry if you don't understand the concept of infinite contrast. Have a nice day.
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post #490 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by nodixe View Post
All the pictures in the world cant change what I've experienced in person and in my opinion OLED is easily king, abl and all. And I honestly thought they were using blue and yellow emissive QD and a filter or sump for the QLED backlight. Didn't mean to spread false info. It really is time to let this thread die since argueing about it wont change the reality of the situation.....

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Yep - its a lame thread. Always was. Sure, we did all post in it but thats only because I felt the need to discredit the BS. For tbose that dont like OLED.... this just in: You can buy an LCD and bask in the glory of NITS.
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post #491 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I'm sorry if you don't understand the concept of infinite contrast. Have a nice day.
I understand the concept of contrast, pixel dimming and perfect black because the pixel is off, maybe it's you who doesn't understand? Like I said, infinite contrast is a marketing term.
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post #492 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 09:01 AM
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My understanding of contrast is that it is the multiplicative measurement between two values, so it's the measurement from the peak luminance all the way down to the lowest luminance. In the case of OLED that lowest luminance would essentially be 0.0000. So technically yes it is infinite. Yes, it also is technically also a marketing term considering if you go from 0.00000 nits to 1 nit, that's still technically an infinite contrast ratio.

To me your argument is describing the same thing, but just in the opposite direction. Lowest luminance could begin anywhere, even starting at 10,000,000 nits, and the peak light output (if it were truly possible) going infinitely brighter.

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post #493 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 09:20 AM
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Yep - its a lame thread. Always was. Sure, we did all post in it but thats only because I felt the need to discredit the BS. For tbose that dont like OLED.... this just in: You can buy an LCD and bask in the glory of NITS.

With due all respect you are the one who is talking BS and not us, we are the ones who need to discredit your BS! but what does it matter anymore anyway, You are locked in your position and nothing will change it even "irrefutable proofs"

The Only one thing that I can agree with you is that the 4K OLEDS provide the best dark picture alongside with the last KUROS and some some other companies last generation plasmas, not even a question or doubt.

But if we back again to this topic and the damn luminance picture argument, not that you are total wrong, but you are total total wrong.

You could at least say "Ok i admit that LEDS and quality CRTS presents a better luminance picture, but the OLED luminance is enough for me and i dont need something higher than that".

But if u dont want to admit in it like all the others [because u purchased some expansive OLEDS and u dont want to regret of the lots of money u spent on it, or other reasons idk...] Not only that you are distorting the true facts that any measure tool or naked eye can verify, but you simply deceiving many other innocent people [that can rely only on your opinion, purchase after an OLED screen , open the box in their home and regret for it but with no return option... like i personally had myself in the past, and it was already too late even before 14 days buying protection just cause i opened the box and was a nightmare to return it so the best case i ended up paying 5% of the total price]

And most of all your deceiving yourself with a wrong facts.

So to say a comments like: "You can buy an LCD and bask in the glory of NITS", doesnt show any big wisdom, like of measuring and doing a self test comparison by urself. some of us dont like and never wanted to purchase LCD/LED screens, same exactly as you! so we are total confused, thats the whole point and the main purpose of this thread, and that makes the conflict and the dilema to those people that have the same opinion as me and the thread opener, but at least were facing and telling the truth instead of lying ourselves and others just to make us happy because of our purchase.

If we would like LED TV so much, we wouldnt even bother to come to this thread and reply like that [me at least], i guess we would be happy and satisfied enough with our LED picture. but thats not the situation. so thats why its important for us to clarify an important point, in hope that maybe someone important will listen, and it will reach to the right ears of some "Koreans or Japanese" engineers and they will start to change something there already with the damn limited ABL!

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post #494 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 12:43 PM
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With due all respect you are the one who is talking BS and not us, we are the ones who need to discredit your BS! but what does it matter anymore anyway, You are locked in your position and nothing will change it even "irrefutable proofs"

The Only one thing that I can agree with you is that the 4K OLEDS provide the best dark picture alongside with the last KUROS and some some other companies last generation plasmas, not even a question or doubt.

But if we back again to this topic and the damn luminance picture argument, not that you are total wrong, but you are total total wrong.

You could at least say "Ok i admit that LEDS and quality CRTS presents a better luminance picture, but the OLED luminance is enough for me and i dont need something higher than that".

But if u dont want to admit in it like all the others [because u purchased some expansive OLEDS and u dont want to regret of the lots of money u spent on it, or other reasons idk...] Not only that you are distorting the true facts that any measure tool or naked eye can verify, but you simply deceiving many other innocent people [that can rely only on your opinion, purchase after an OLED screen , open the box in their home and regret for it but with no return option... like i personally had myself in the past, and it was already too late even before 14 days buying protection just cause i opened the box and was a nightmare to return it so the best case i ended up paying 5% of the total price]

And most of all your deceiving yourself with a wrong facts.

So to say a comments like: "You can buy an LCD and bask in the glory of NITS", doesnt show any big wisdom, like of measuring and doing a self test comparison by urself. some of us dont like and never wanted to purchase LCD/LED screens, same exactly as you! so we are total confused, thats the whole point and the main purpose of this thread, and that makes the conflict and the dilema to those people that have the same opinion as me and the thread opener, but at least were facing and telling the truth instead of lying ourselves and others just to make us happy because of our purchase.

If we would like LED TV so much, we wouldnt even bother to come to this thread and reply like that [me at least], i guess we would be happy and satisfied enough with our LED picture. but thats not the situation. so thats why its important for us to clarify an important point, in hope that maybe someone important will listen, and it will reach to the right ears of some "Koreans or Japanese" engineers and they will start to change something there already with the damn limited ABL!
Nothing in this thread is irrefutable. Its mostlybased on opinions, FUD and all that other stuff that makes the internet so fun. Just forget it. You buy and watch what you like and Ill do the same. I stayed out of this thread too for a while. Wish the mods would lock it or get rid of it.

Were done here.
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post #495 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 01:39 PM
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Nothing in this thread is irrefutable. Its mostlybased on opinions, FUD and all that other stuff that makes the internet so fun. Just forget it. You buy and watch what you like and Ill do the same. I stayed out of this thread too for a while. Wish the mods would lock it or get rid of it.

Were done here.
1. Problem is that i dont know what to buy because there are not many options yet, and thats why i came to this thread in the first place.

2. And Yes its able to irrefutable your claim "that OLEDS has the same or at least not much less luminance than LEDS OR CRTS." just put the OLEDS next to CRT/LED set them on high contrast and cell light, and test it with your eye. [or Calman meter tool or w/el u want, i personally prefer the "human's eye"]

3. From 1 side u say "ts mostlybased on opinions, FUD and all that other stuff that makes the internet so fun", opinions that we are allow to express politely, but from the other side "u wish that the mods will lock this thread..."

So why exactly do you care about my opinion or other that express the same opinion as me against that annoying ABL and low luminance in OLEDS?

What exactly bothers you with our opinion? or what do u have exactly to hide??

Nothing is personally, Its your decision to leave the thread and I totally respect it and your opinion even that i dont agree with it, so i expect you to do the same for me. Im also not a man of arguments and actually hate to do that, but this time i couldnt stand it anymore... This damn thing of the blocked ABL really got on my nerves for the last 10 years, and im simply sick of it, they create such a wonderfull and quality 4K OLED TVS out there but ruin everything with the low light, and i cant fully enjoy from a TV yet and its a bit frustrating.

I really want to be satisfied from a decent tv already like the good old times before those silly energy restrictions started [with all due respect to energy saving and i respect it] like when my parents purchased for me my old flat TOSHIBA BOMBA 29 in 2000, or when i bought the 34 CRT in 2004, or when i purchased my first Samsung Plasma PS42Q91 in 2007. That time when white and luminace was excellent more than enough for me and like it should be.

Suddenly since those leds started to pop up on the market all the Samsung plasmas that came after [not talking about the kuros cause they were always dimmed for me] and all the other companies plasmas became more ABL and dimmed.. i wonder why exactly??? [is that a technology restriction of a palsma?!? i dont think so...] Maybe they only wanted to imporve the blacks of plasmas and save more energy... so they decided new low limited ABL standarts, and now it continues with the OLEDS.

So i guess were done here

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post #496 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 03:28 PM
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1. Problem is that i dont know what to buy because there are not many options yet, and thats why i came to this thread in the first place.

2. And Yes its able to irrefutable your claim "that OLEDS has the same or at least not much less luminance than LEDS OR CRTS." just put the OLEDS next to CRT/LED set them on high contrast and cell light, and test it with your eye. [or Calman meter tool or w/el u want, i personally prefer the "human's eye"]

3. From 1 side u say "ts mostlybased on opinions, FUD and all that other stuff that makes the internet so fun", opinions that we are allow to express politely, but from the other side "u wish that the mods will lock this thread..."

So why exactly do you care about my opinion or other that express the same opinion as me against that annoying ABL and low luminance in OLEDS?

What exactly bothers you with our opinion? or what do u have exactly to hide??

Nothing is personally, Its your decision to leave the thread and I totally respect it and your opinion even that i dont agree with it, so i expect you to do the same for me. Im also not a man of arguments and actually hate to do that, but this time i couldnt stand it anymore... This damn thing of the blocked ABL really got on my nerves for the last 10 years, and im simply sick of it, they create such a wonderfull and quality 4K OLED TVS out there but ruin everything with the low light, and i cant fully enjoy from a TV yet and its a bit frustrating.

I really want to be satisfied from a decent tv already like the good old times before those silly energy restrictions started [with all due respect to energy saving and i respect it] like when my parents purchased for me my old flat TOSHIBA BOMBA 29 in 2000, or when i bought the 34 CRT in 2004, or when i purchased my first Samsung Plasma PS42Q91 in 2007. That time when white and luminace was excellent more than enough for me and like it should be.

Suddenly since those leds started to pop up on the market all the Samsung plasmas that came after [not talking about the kuros cause they were always dimmed for me] and all the other companies plasmas became more ABL and dimmed.. i wonder why exactly??? [is that a technology restriction of a palsma?!? i dont think so...] Maybe they only wanted to imporve the blacks of plasmas and save more energy... so they decided new low limited ABL standarts, and now it continues with the OLEDS.

So i guess were done here
All right, all right. We're good. Sorry if I came across wrong. Just tired of the crap and arguing. I find that my E6 produces a fantastic picture in just about every type of content I can throw at it. Is it perfect? nah, not at all. But its damned good and the flaws are pretty trivial. You do have to take time to set things up and tweak 'er a bit. Once you do, these OLEDs really perform nicely.

Good Luck on your search for video nirvana.

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post #497 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 05:50 PM
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All right, all right. We're good. Sorry if I came across wrong. Just tired of the crap and arguing. I find that my E6 produces a fantastic picture in just about every type of content I can throw at it. Is it perfect? nah, not at all. But its damned good and the flaws are pretty trivial. You do have to take time to set things up and tweak 'er a bit. Once you do, these OLEDs really perform nicely.

Good Luck on your search for video nirvana.
Its al good and u dont have to sorry but I dont think that i will find this video nirvana very soon

Anyway i will really appreciate if u can post some bright content of your well calibrated E6 [i guess u know what i mean: those islands, blue beaches, deserts, nature,snow, hocky] or even just 1 pic of a full white screen.

Actually I was like a year ago in a famous high end products cinema store near my city in Tel aviv called "Crossover" and tested the OLED LG 55EG920 which looked for me with the best sharpness, nature and stunning picture compares almost all the tvs i saw there, or even 1 of the best half bright/dark content TV i ever seen.

I didnt take with me a usb stick with 4k or hd bright content like this thread creator wise guy did, but only tested it on a randomly SD and HD cable channels, and some of the HD dark content they broadcasted there [if u know like this beautiful black puma on a black background] and also i tested a full white screen.

When was on a a full white screen on 100% OLED light and 100% contrast, i got something not that far from what that german guy achieved, but i must admit that a bit brighter [actually i dont understand what he did exactly with his calibration or what he disabled/enabled there that caused him to get such an awfull dimmed grey full white field, but i had it much better and brighter but still it looked very bad for me also]

http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-312-29-4.html

This is the full white screen that pg_ice [patrick g] got with his 880W OLED back then and sold it after a while, Now i admit that OLED ABL did improved during the time, but still its much less than enough for me, and the result talks for itself...

https://www.avforums.com/threads/ole...1901761/page-2

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post #498 of 511 Old 06-29-2017, 06:15 PM
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I dont think that i will find this nirvana very soon

Anyway i will really appreciate if u can post some bright content of your well calibrated E6 [i guess u know what i mean: those islands, blue beaches, deserts, nature,snow, hocky] or even just 1 pic of a full white screen.

Actually I was like a year ago in a famous high end products cinema store near my city in Tel aviv called "Crossover" and tested the OLED LG 55EG920 which looked for me with the best sharpness, nature and stunning picture compares almost all the tvs i saw there, or even 1 of the best half bright/dark content TV i ever seen.

I didnt take with me a usb stick with 4k or hd bright content like this thread creator wise guy did, but only tested it on a randomly SD and HD cable channles, and some of the HD dark content they broadcasted there [if u know like this beautiful black puma on a black background] and also i tested a full white screen.

When was on a a full white screen on 100% OLED light and 100% contrast, i got something not that far from what that german guy achieved, but i must admit that a bit brighter [actually i dont understand what he did exactly with his calibration or what he disabled/enabled there that caused him to get such an awfull dimmed grey full white field, but i had it much better and brighter but still it looked very bad for me]

http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-312-29-4.html

This is the full white screen that pg_ice [patrick g] got with his 880W OLED back then and sold it after a while, Now i admit that OLED ABL did improved during the time, but still its far much less than enough for me, and the result talks for itself...

https://www.avforums.com/threads/ole...1901761/page-2
Ill see about getting some pics posted of those types of scenes. My set has not been professionally calibrated, I just spent some time messing with the AVS cal disc, test patterns, my dark adapted eyes, etc to get where Im happy. The LG Chess demo with HDR is a great demo for the TV. Maybe I can snap a few shots from that? It has some very obvious highlights and bright scenes. Ill see what I can come up with.

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post #499 of 511 Old 06-30-2017, 04:46 AM
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Those pictures are the proof of the photographers' inaptitude, not how OLEDs look at full field white.
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post #500 of 511 Old 06-30-2017, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by zzoli View Post
Those pictures are the proof of the photographers' inaptitude, not how OLEDs look at full field white.
Yeah, internet pics of TVs are of dubious value it seems. A lot of factors come into play. We watched the entire NHL playoffs on my OLED and I can assure everyone that the ice looked perfect and so did pretty much everything else. Good luminance while maintaining detail in whites so they weren't blown out. Just what you'd expect from a high end TV.

This weekend I'll still try to post pics but I can't guarantee they'll look as good as the set does in person. I've yet to have anything other than a "wow" reaction when showing to people.

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post #501 of 511 Old 06-30-2017, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by zzoli View Post
Those pictures are the proof of the photographers' inaptitude, not how OLEDs look at full field white.
Your wrong man, a full white field is the best measure for how a bright luminance picture should look, And thats exactly what pg_ice had with his OLED on full white screen before selling it, and almost the same as what i had+- on full white at the electric store with the 55EG920 , and i didnt like it cause it didnt look so good for me.
The color of the tiny square looks almost the same as full white screen in a 4k LED TV. [LED full white screen looks even brighter]
Imo it should look exactly the same in OLEDS on a full white screen, but its still limited and blocked cause of the damn ABL, even with the recent modles that has some slight "almost invisible" improve.


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post #502 of 511 Old 06-30-2017, 07:54 AM
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I was talking about the sh*t photos those guys made. Wrong exposition, the dark grey is not what you see with your own eyes.

Here are two photos I took a few minutes ago. One is overexposed the other is underexposed. This is the point I was trying to make.

Of course ABL dims whites, noone should be surprised by it.
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post #503 of 511 Old 06-30-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by zzoli View Post
I was talking about the sh*t photos those guys made. Wrong exposition, the dark grey is not what you see with your own eyes.

Here are two photos I took a few minutes ago. One is overexposed the other is underexposed. This is the point I was trying to make.

Of course ABL dims whites, noone should be surprised by it.
Actually im now suprised on how your a full white screen white in the left pic [overexposed??] looks really not bad for an OLED

Still its not enough white for me and it should be a bit higher with more luminance on 100 contrast and 100 oled light, but i must say im impressed and surprised that it looks really not bad like that.

Thats not what i saw in that store when i tested the screen on full white, but much grey and darker.

Which OLED model do you have exactly?? And thanks for the pics, Appreciate If u can take another shot of the overexposed white but from a front view and ill be greatful

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post #504 of 511 Old 06-30-2017, 08:26 AM
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See, this is what I'm talking about. None of them is a good representation of the real sight. The picture attached to this post is better, more or less this is what I see on my tv in this sunny afternoon. (The table under the set is white actually and the wall's colour is creamish-butterish-yellowish. Or something like that.)

LG EG910V

Edit:
This is not a 100% white screen. You can see that part of the screen are whiter than the main part - the 'back' symbol, and the shape under the 'IRE' are much whiter. This is one of the sets built-in calibration patterns.
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post #505 of 511 Old 07-05-2017, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I'm sorry if you don't understand the concept of infinite contrast. Have a nice day.


The concept îs flawed when that "infinite" is obtained by dividing something to zero.

1 brightness will have infinite contrast between the brightest point and the 0 black.

Same for brightness 1000.

Hell, the contrast between the close to dark shades and pure black is still infinite because you divide a number with zero. No matter how small that number it will always be "infinite".


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post #506 of 511 Old 07-05-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by astateofmind View Post
The concept îs flawed when that "infinite" is obtained by dividing something to zero.

1 brightness will have infinite contrast between the brightest point and the 0 black.

Same for brightness 1000.

Hell, the contrast between the close to dark shades and pure black is still infinite because you divide a number with zero. No matter how small that number it will always be "infinite".


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Not sure what math is being used, but dividing by zero equals, undefined. Not infinity.

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post #507 of 511 Old 07-05-2017, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post
Not sure what math is being used, but dividing by zero equals, undefined. Not infinity.
And how do you think they got to the "infinite" contrast ratio? But you're right, it should be called "undefined contrast ratio"

From sony: "Dynamic contrast ratio compares the luminance of a 100 IRE (white) signal with that of a 0 IRE (black) signal. When the TV receives a 0 IRE signal the backlight is turned off and the luminance measurement is 0.00 cd/m2. The resulting dynamic contrast ratio is infinite."

But yes, you're right, it's just a marketing gimmick
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post #508 of 511 Old 07-05-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post
Not sure what math is being used, but dividing by zero equals, undefined. Not infinity.
This is actually incorrect.

The result of deviding by zero is defined by the limit of a series. Define the denominator by a fraction, 1/n. Now take any numerator X and devide it by that fraction, so with:

n=1 you have X/1/1 = X,
n=2 you have X/1/2 = 2X,
n=3 you have X/1/3 = 3X,
n=N you have X/1/N = NX

zero is defined as the limit of 1/n as n approaches infinity and when you divide any non-zero numerator by 1 / infinity, the result is infinity.

Define any threshold you would like for a large number which is less than infinity and I can provide you a number N such that your chosen non-zero numerator devided by 1 / N with the N I provide you will exceed your threshold.

This is how infinity is defined (exceeds any finite threshold).
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post #509 of 511 Old 07-05-2017, 03:31 PM
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Not quite

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_by_zero

Anyway, the idea is the visually speaking the "infinity" of 10/0 is totally different than the "infinity" of 1000/0. And actually contrast should be better defined than just a fraction.
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post #510 of 511 Old 07-05-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
This is actually incorrect.

The result of deviding by zero is defined by the limit of a series. Define the denominator by a fraction, 1/n. Now take any numerator X and devide it by that fraction, so with:

n=1 you have X/1/1 = X,
n=2 you have X/1/2 = 2X,
n=3 you have X/1/3 = 3X,
n=N you have X/1/N = NX

zero is defined as the limit of 1/n as n approaches infinity and when you divide any non-zero numerator by 1 / infinity, the result is infinity.

Define any threshold you would like for a large number which is less than infinity and I can provide you a number N such that your chosen non-zero numerator devided by 1 / N with the N I provide you will exceed your threshold.

This is how infinity is defined (exceeds any finite threshold).
This is OT and this thread should be dead (that rhymes), but division is the reverse of multiplication, in essence.

When you multiply 5 x 2 you get 10. When you divide 10 by 2, you are, in essence, trying to find what number multiplied by 2, that will give you 10. So 10/2 = 5.

Anything multiplied by 0 is 0. When you have 0 divided by 10, or 10/0, you are trying to find a number multiplied by 0 that will give you 10. That number doesn't exist, because anything times 0 is 0. Therefore, undefined.

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