2017 TV Shootout Evaluation event will be in NYC, July 12 and July 13, 2017 - Page 42 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5272Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1231 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:03 AM
 
Al Leong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2007 Post(s)
Liked: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
First off, this is not a 'well documented problem' with the LG sets. It's a well documented problem with certain content. That's a big difference. False contouring exists within the content and the Sony is simply reducing what's already there. The LG is more faithful to the source.

Second, many LG owners don't see this as an issue with the majority of streaming content on Netflix & Amazon. I get a stellar picture on much of this content and see infrequent instances of false contouring. Even the infrequent instances when it's there, it's gone within seconds.
(I don't believe I'm about to actually "agree" with KR)

Having seen the X300 presentation of the source encoded contouring, and see the E7 faithfully transmit the same source issue and the A1 seamlessly "clean it up" by default was a real eye-opener for me.

I prefer to see the artifacts, film grain, imaging flaws because as a content enthusiast, I like to determine the quality of the content encoding/production/streaming bitrate.
Spizz, Ken Ross, ataneruo and 2 others like this.
Al Leong is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1232 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:06 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,407
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1708 Post(s)
Liked: 738
Just remember guys. Its easier to put somebody on your ignore list than to respond to their craziness.
I WANT MORE likes this.
JimP is offline  
post #1233 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
VidPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,415
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1466 Post(s)
Liked: 1204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
(I don't believe I'm about to actually "agree" with KR)

Having seen the X300 presentation of the source encoded contouring, and see the E7 faithfully transmit the same source issue and the A1 seamlessly "clean it up" by default was a real eye-opener for me.

I prefer to see the artifacts, film grain, imaging flaws because as a content enthusiast, I like to determine the quality of the content encoding/production/streaming bitrate.
So would you say the biggest factor is the motion handling between Sony and LG?

I too like to like to see the content as intended, but I wouldn't add streaming problems to the list. That's one of the reasons I want to jump ship and move to the Sony. Also, color banding, while not a really big issue for me, is still something I'd like to see lessened or eliminated. That is if it's not creating other problems with the image.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
Sony XBR-65A1E OLED/Denon X4300H/Oppo 203/Klipsch RVX‑42/PS4 Pro/Xbox One X/5.1.2
VidPro is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1234 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:19 AM
 
Al Leong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2007 Post(s)
Liked: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
So would you say the biggest factor is the motion handling between Sony and LG?

I too like to like to see the content as intended, but I wouldn't add streaming problems to the list. That's one of the reasons I want to jump ship and move to the Sony. Also, color banding, while not a really big issue for me, is still something I'd like to see lessened or eliminated. That is if it's not creating other problems with the image.
For me the motion difference (with current LG updates) are slight (if not 97% non-existent) but there are portions of content you will hit here-and-there where the nuanced motion handling difference will be evident.. There's an episode of Gypsy on Netflix that have been pointed out by jrref (I don't remember the episode), I have pointed out La La Land 4K UHD, and the end scene of T2 Trainspotting UHD.. moving sports such as Ice Hockey, NFL, Soccer, and NBA Basketball.. I've found to be a profound difference in motion between the 2.. the LG of course delivers, but there are noticeable motion issues with the aforementioned content.

A die-hard purist will not want Sony fixing their image.. as a videophile, I just want the "best" looking image at all times.. but I keep a purist capable set, and I'd have to proclaim the A1 does Videophile the best but the LG OLED does purist the best.
dancolt and lsorensen like this.

Last edited by Al Leong; 07-15-2017 at 07:28 AM.
Al Leong is offline  
post #1235 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,169
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5048 Post(s)
Liked: 3574
I wish I would have known about this shootout. I didn't really pay attention for it I guess since I have so much going on at home. I definitely would have attended. Would have been nice to meet the many top dogs and other AVS members.
To be able to see all these TV's side by side would probably have given me a little more perspective on the differences which is really hard to see unless they are side by side.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
post #1236 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,463
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2341 Post(s)
Liked: 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Okay, I admit, when I was walking the dog this morning I was formulating a car analogy, knowing how they provide a flawed form of entertainment in threads like this. I was just waiting for somebody to ask for one.

So, here's my attempt...


- LG's 2017 OLED is a racecar. Gotta tune it to perfection; it's not for amateurs. Doing so yield a professional result.

- Sony's A1E is an exotic electric sports car that's almost as fast as a racecar, but is street legal and can be driven in traffic because it has an adjustable suspension. But set in in "track" mode and it's race-ready.

- Sony's Z9D is last year's concept car that still uses a gas engine and does not corner as well as the A1E, but is faster going in a straight line than that electric exotic. There's a truck-sized version that's insane.

- Samsung's Q9F is a self-driving luxury sports sedan than does not appeal to racecar drivers. It's not something you'd bring to the track, and it actually costs more than the sports car, but some folks like it because it's comfortable and stylish—and available as a 7-seater—while still offering performance that satisfies folks who are not racecar drivers.

- Vizio's P-series is basically a Corvette. It's an American company selling sports cars for less than premium foreign competitors. And while it does not beat the top dogs from the foreign companies, when people see the price/performance ratio, it challenges their preconceptions of what the brand offers.

- And the Westinghouse? Well, it's that economy car with the "racing-style" steering wheel and seats.
big boy toys


Ken Ross, shoman94, aypues and 3 others like this.
8mile13 is offline  
post #1237 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
VidPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,415
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1466 Post(s)
Liked: 1204
Ok interesting. I checked out the scene jrref mentioned. It's was pretty horrific motion-wise. Even on my iPad it looked much better. It's something I noticed on the Deadpool UHD BR too. I'm assuming the Sony would do a good job of cleaning that up too.
jrref likes this.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
Sony XBR-65A1E OLED/Denon X4300H/Oppo 203/Klipsch RVX‑42/PS4 Pro/Xbox One X/5.1.2
VidPro is online now  
post #1238 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:30 AM
 
Al Leong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2007 Post(s)
Liked: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
Ok interesting. I checked out the scene jrref mentioned. It's was pretty horrific motion-wise. Even on my iPad it looked much better. It's something I noticed on the Deadpool UHD BR too. I'm assuming the Sony would do a good job of cleaning that up too.

Correct.
Al Leong is offline  
post #1239 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:33 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
They took the shootout incredibly serious and that's another reason that contributed to their set being perfect and winning.
If only Westinghouse had sent an engineer.
mnc, ataneruo, sonoftumble and 3 others like this.
JasonHa is offline  
post #1240 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,763
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1825 Post(s)
Liked: 1090
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I wish I would have known about this shootout. I didn't really pay attention for it I guess since I have so much going on at home. I definitely would have attended. Would have been nice to meet the many top dogs and other AVS members.
To be able to see all these TV's side by side would probably have given me a little more perspective on the differences which is really hard to see unless they are side by side.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
Would of been nice to read your perspective on the shootout, maybe you could of got beta firmware pushed to the P Series.

Sent from my XR6P10 using Tapatalk
DisplayCalNoob is online now  
post #1241 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:39 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,051
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7272 Post(s)
Liked: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Not interested in beating this dead horse with you anymore or your windmill-tilting. You're not the final authority on these topics no matter how convinced you are of the objectivity of your personal lab testing. As I am more impressed by 3D and what 8+ million zones can do for blackout viewing (and the flexibility to watch at wider angles), I can extrapolate from the 940D comparison that I made the right decision on the 65" screen (the 77" uniformity is the only thing that, again, gives me pause). The processing differences are overrated especially at 10 feet away. I don't need your biased comparison to convince me of anything. Good day.
Now c'mon video_analysis, you know he knows far more than the professionals that were judging the panels in the shootout or the professional reviews we read that actually say the LG processing is excellent. Why would you ever doubt him? It's only LG, so it must be bad.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1242 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,169
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5048 Post(s)
Liked: 3574
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
Would of been nice to read your perspective on the shootout, maybe you could of got beta firmware pushed to the P Series.

Sent from my XR6P10 using Tapatalk
I think @Matt McRae was there. I'm sure they added the serial number to the beta list. Lol

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
post #1243 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:43 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,051
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7272 Post(s)
Liked: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by HitchcockBirds View Post
What a load! I don't necessarily choose a brand to be a fanboy of but the A1E should've won. It features all the benefits of the C7 but with better color gradient and motion handling.
Oh absolutely, we know all these shootouts are fixed. If the attendees vote, they're obviously all biased and the results are fixed. If the pros do it, they must be paid off and so again, the results are fixed.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Post shootout AVS really seems like a scene from Groundhog Day. Over and over and over.
KMFDMvsEnya and Blitzdog like this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1244 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,051
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7272 Post(s)
Liked: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
I know you are no 3D enthusiast, as I am. When I had a few friends over too watch a hockey game on my new 65C6, I also played Avatar in 3D and the WOW effect set in on the 3D movie.
Good luck with the 77G7.
Thanks. Yeah, if you're a 3D fan, the 2016 is undoubtedly the way to go. I feel badly for the 3D fans that have been left in the lurch. The industry has lost interest.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1245 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,763
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1825 Post(s)
Liked: 1090
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I think @Matt McRae was there. I'm sure they added the serial number to the beta list. Lol

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
Hahaha

Sent from my XR6P10 using Tapatalk
DisplayCalNoob is online now  
post #1246 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 07:56 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,051
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7272 Post(s)
Liked: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
The reason to get the Sony as an alternative to the 17 LG is simply If you can see the X1E handing of dynamic HDR10 presenting a "better" presentation to Dolby Vision.

This is the only reason why I treasure my A1 including SDR handling.

It's not a Sony - LG comparison, it's a Sony - Dolby comparison IMO.

When Meridian was played at the shootout, on day 1 and day 2, this comparison was undeniable to most attending and the comments I overheard about it.

If this is not important to a viewer, the LG is the "first choice".
Al, although John disagreed with me, I saw the brightest highlights being clipped on the Sony. It wasn't overly important in that scene, but to me it was still there.

Further, and more importantly IMO, the entire streaming exercise was somewhat flawed due to the differences in the apps themselves. Many of us don't use the onboard apps on these displays. In fact, due to the hideous OS of my Sony, it was the prime reason I went with a Roku. The less interaction with the Sony OS the better, despite the Roku itself having flaws.

So the Roku presentation is different than the Sony presentation via its onboard app. Further, as most of us saw, the color of the Sony was at times distracting in that it was obviously too blue. It's quite possible that color wouldn't have been so skewed with a Roku via a calibrated HDMI input. Of course then it's also possible the entire presentation would have been different too.

Lots of variable with streaming that weren't really discussed and I didn't think about until on my way home.
imagic and venus933 like this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1247 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:01 AM
 
Al Leong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2007 Post(s)
Liked: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Al, although John disagreed with me, I saw the brightest highlights being clipped on the Sony. It wasn't overly important in that scene, but to me it was still there.

Further, and more importantly IMO, the entire streaming exercise was somewhat flawed due to the differences in the apps themselves. Many of us don't use the onboard apps on these displays. In fact, due to the hideous OS of my Sony, it was the prime reason I went with a Roku. The less interaction with the Sony OS the better, despite the Roku itself having flaws.

So the Roku presentation is different than the Sony presentation via its onboard app. Further, as most of us saw, the color of the Sony was at times distracting in that it was obviously too blue. It's quite possible that color wouldn't have been so skewed with a Roku via a calibrated HDMI input. Of course then it's also possible the entire presentation would have been different too.

Lots of variable with streaming that weren't really discussed and I didn't think about until on my way home.
With your G7 (congrats BTW) the onboard apps are the best to use because in my opinion the LG streaming apps are the best and most capable of any STB or Smart TV.

With the Roku connected to an A1, the benefit of dynamic HDR10 handling would be the same as the built-in app.

Any color issues that may have been seen with the Sony on day 2 of the shootout is due to its settings on that day.

For reference: during the start of the sit-around with D-Nice and jrref, jrref immediatly pointed out the A1 was too blue on a city scape scene from PEII in comparison to the E7 and X300, which I agreed. I did see a correction to that within their session with the TVs, but on day 2 I have to accept the blue was back.
ataneruo likes this.

Last edited by Al Leong; 07-15-2017 at 08:08 AM.
Al Leong is offline  
post #1248 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bob brennan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Thanks. Yeah, if you're a 3D fan, the 2016 is undoubtedly the way to go. I feel badly for the 3D fans that have been left in the lurch. The industry has lost interest.
So has nearly everyone else - I have started with the 3D disc and quickly switcehd to the Blu-Ray discs. Promethus & one of the avengers wasn't bad in 3D.

Need to go to the movie and see Fort Ti for good 3D!!
mrtickleuk likes this.

LG OLED 77G7P - Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 – OPPO UDP-203/103D - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A – Harmony ONE
Marantz SR7011 - Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 55 (2) - Super Cube 6000
bob brennan is offline  
post #1249 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sonoftumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 3,357
Mentioned: 228 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2684 Post(s)
Liked: 2446
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
Would of been nice to read your perspective on the shootout, maybe you could of got beta firmware pushed to the P Series.

Sent from my XR6P10 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I think @Matt McRae was there. I'm sure they added the serial number to the beta list. Lol

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
I've posted a couple of times in this thread about the current beta FW - wishing the judges could have evaluated the P with that. I'm certain it would have impressed even more.
sonoftumble is offline  
post #1250 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JazzGuyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oro Valley AZ
Posts: 3,397
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
Every XBR CRT i owned was great. Loved the 32" XBR 100 that cost 3k in 1994.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkeegan View Post
I was lucky enough to own a Sony XBR² Triniton. It was 1991 Sony's attempt to create a
reference consumer TV. It was a fantastic TV for its time.
Sony's first attempt at a reference consumer TV was the Profeel series back in the 1980s. I had the original 25" model as my set for a number of years.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...f--gadget-.jpg
ataneruo and Al Leong like this.

JazzGuyy is offline  
post #1251 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,169
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5048 Post(s)
Liked: 3574
@D-Nice can you give me the method/settings in CalMAN you used for calibration on the Vizio P Series TV? Maybe posted the results? Or pm me them?

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+

Last edited by shoman94; 07-15-2017 at 08:50 AM.
shoman94 is offline  
post #1252 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sonoftumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 3,357
Mentioned: 228 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2684 Post(s)
Liked: 2446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Thanks. Yeah, if you're a 3D fan, the 2016 is undoubtedly the way to go. I feel badly for the 3D fans that have been left in the lurch. The industry has lost interest.
I think that consumers lost interest first, and the manufacturers could reduce their costs by cutting that feature. Also, I know several people who get headaches or worse watching 3D content.

Not me, and I certainly enjoy watching Avatar in 3D - among others. My 2016 E6 delivers a superb experience. If you've watched 3D on an HD display you will see the scanning lines. With 4K, the lines are gone.

Vizio stopped making 3D sets because they found out only 7% of their customers actually watched 3D content.


Still a shame that it's mostly gone now. The industry needs to bring back Cinerama! lol
Ken Ross likes this.
sonoftumble is offline  
post #1253 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Supermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,230
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Thanks. Yeah, if you're a 3D fan, the 2016 is undoubtedly the way to go. I feel badly for the 3D fans that have been left in the lurch. The industry has lost interest.
It is a shame 3D has been left out of these newer 2017's. That is why my only choices for an upgrade for my 64f8500 Samsung plasma which has excellent 3D is a Z9D or a 2016 LG which is getting harder to find. I'm probably going to choose the 75Z9D since I hear only good things from its 3D performance. I do believe that the year after Avatar 2 comes out, we will see 3D return as customers will want to be able to see that movie at home in all its glory.
Supermans is offline  
post #1254 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,051
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7272 Post(s)
Liked: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Al, I didn't want to say it but since you did, you are right on target. One of the things I noticed was that the LG team was there every day and bright and early on the day of the judging to make sure that their set was set up to display it's maximum performance. They actually flew in a picture quality guy from Korea who was there to make sure the LG was set up properly. Sony did have an engineer, who was fantastic, there the day before and on set up day but no one was there from Sony the day of the judging. The LG team stuck with that TV the whole day and I don't even think they went to the rest room lol. They took the shootout incredibly serious and that's another reason that contributed to their set being perfect and winning.
John, IIRC, Al mentioned that the brightness setting was moved 1 click (one click) on the Sony from the prior day. If that was the extent of these changes, I seriously doubt there would have been enough of an impact to alter the results of the voting.

Further, I'm sure it won't be difficult to ask the 2nd day calibrator what he did to the Sony. If you guys are alleging the calibrator did a poor job, then let's hear his side of it. For all I know, the 2nd day calibration was actually better than the first day. Without any evidence to back up day 1 & day 2 #s , I remain skeptical about how this altered the outcome...as you guys are clearly suggesting.

I'm just saying that these are the same things we hear every single year post shootout. As I told you over lunch, the only truly grievous mistake I've seen in all the years I've attended these shootouts, was when the Sony XBR929 had it's FALD accidentally turned off. Having owned that display, I asked why the blacks were so poor on this unit and that a setting must be wrong. When checked, Kevin Miller saw the FALD was turned off. He turned it back on with dramatic results. But having FALD on & off is a hell of a lot more dramatic than one click on the brightness setting.
venus933 and sonoftumble like this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1255 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bob brennan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I think that consumers lost interest first, and the manufacturers could reduce their costs by cutting that feature. Also, I know several people who get headaches or worse watching 3D content.

Not me, and I certainly enjoy watching Avatar in 3D - among others. My 2016 E6 delivers a superb experience. If you've watched 3D on an HD display you will see the scanning lines. With 4K, the lines are gone.

Vizio stopped making 3D sets because they found out only 7% of their customers actually watched 3D content.


Still a shame that it's mostly gone now. The industry needs to bring back Cinerama! lol
Never saw any "lines" when watching on my 65ZT through a Oppo 103D - but agree, came and gone just like curved screens.

LG OLED 77G7P - Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 – OPPO UDP-203/103D - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A – Harmony ONE
Marantz SR7011 - Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 55 (2) - Super Cube 6000
bob brennan is offline  
post #1256 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:35 AM
Member
 
aypues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
First off, this is not a 'well documented problem' with the LG sets. It's a well documented problem with certain content. That's a big difference. False contouring exists within the content and the Sony is simply reducing what's already there. The LG is more faithful to the source.

Second, many LG owners don't see this as an issue with the majority of streaming content on Netflix & Amazon. I get a stellar picture on much of this content and see infrequent instances of false contouring. Even the infrequent instances when it's there, it's gone within seconds.
It is indeed well documented when Vincent Teoh on YouTube is talking about how bad Game of Thrones episodes are on LG sets and it has been discussed at length on the forums here as well. Maybe you are choosing to overlook negative feedback, another bias. Also, it has been identified in Rtings testing where the LG sets cannot display a smooth gradient, whereas other sets can. Previous to my E6 and B7 I had a 9 year old Samsung LED LCD set that never had any posturization visible like it is on my LG sets - very visible and very distracting on many shows from HBO Go and Showtime. If you care to check them out for your own knowledge, try "The Wizard of Lies". My iPad doesn't even show these issues when viewing the same content. For some reason the LG (or OLED in general) cannot handle them.
ataneruo likes this.
aypues is offline  
post #1257 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:39 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,051
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7272 Post(s)
Liked: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by aypues View Post
It is indeed well documented when Vincent Teoh on YouTube is talking about how bad Game of Thrones episodes are on LG sets and it has been discussed at length on the forums here as well. Maybe you are choosing to overlook negative feedback, another bias. Also, it has been identified in Rtings testing where the LG sets cannot display a smooth gradient, whereas other sets can. Previous to my E6 and B7 I had a 9 year old Samsung LED LCD set that never had any posturization visible like it is on my LG sets - very visible and very distracting on many shows from HBO Go and Showtime if you care to check them out for your own knowledge, try "The Wizard of Lies". My iPad doesn't even show these issues when viewing the same content. For some reason the LG (or OLED in general) cannot handle them.
I am speaking about source related issues and display related issues. They are two different things. The false contouring that most of us see are source related issues. If you don't believe that, that's fine, but you would be 100% wrong. The Sony clears up that content related false contouring, the LG does not.

Further, I have yet to see any instance (as in not one), where the LG displayed false contouring that was not in the content. IOW, I've never seen the LG creating its own false contouring.

Again, I don't watch crap sources like HBO to go or whatever. The 'lowest quality' sources I've watched are Netflix and Amazon and they both can look great.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1258 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bob brennan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
John, IIRC, Al mentioned that the brightness setting was moved 1 click (one click) on the Sony from the prior day. If that was the extent of these changes, I seriously doubt there would have been enough of an impact to alter the results of the voting.

Further, I'm sure it won't be difficult to ask the 2nd day calibrator what he did to the Sony. If you guys are alleging the calibrator did a poor job, then let's hear his side of it. For all I know, the 2nd day calibration was actually better than the first day. Without any evidence to back up day 1 & day 2 #s , I remain skeptical about how this altered the outcome...as you guys are clearly suggesting.

I'm just saying that these are the same things we hear every single year post shootout. As I told you over lunch, the only truly grievous mistake I've seen in all the years I've attended these shootouts, was when the Sony XBR929 had it's FALD accidentally turned off. Having owned that display, I asked why the blacks were so poor on this unit and that a setting must be wrong. When checked, Kevin Miller saw the FALD was turned off. He turned it back on with dramatic results. But having FALD on & off is a hell of a lot more dramatic than one click on the brightness setting.
If I was one of the calibrators I would dignify this nonsense by responding - sounds like the tin foil brigade is alive and well!
Ken Ross and jrref like this.

LG OLED 77G7P - Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 – OPPO UDP-203/103D - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A – Harmony ONE
Marantz SR7011 - Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 55 (2) - Super Cube 6000
bob brennan is offline  
post #1259 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:42 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,051
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7272 Post(s)
Liked: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
Ok interesting. I checked out the scene jrref mentioned. It's was pretty horrific motion-wise. Even on my iPad it looked much better. It's something I noticed on the Deadpool UHD BR too. I'm assuming the Sony would do a good job of cleaning that up too.
FWIW, I commented that even with BFI switched on with my Sony 940c, the judder was still horrific. Switching smooth on with my B6, actually yielded the best results, but still had artifacts.

This is an incredibly rare instance and a superb example of content creators who are beyond clueless. I can't recall ever seeing anything that bad.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1260 of 3546 Old 07-15-2017, 08:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 5,236
Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4279 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
John, IIRC, Al mentioned that the brightness setting was moved 1 click (one click) on the Sony from the prior day. If that was the extent of these changes, I seriously doubt there would have been enough of an impact to alter the results of the voting.

Further, I'm sure it won't be difficult to ask the 2nd day calibrator what he did to the Sony. If you guys are alleging the calibrator did a poor job, then let's hear his side of it. For all I know, the 2nd day calibration was actually better than the first day. Without any evidence to back up day 1 & day 2 #s , I remain skeptical about how this altered the outcome...as you guys are clearly suggesting.

I'm just saying that these are the same things we hear every single year post shootout. As I told you over lunch, the only truly grievous mistake I've seen in all the years I've attended these shootouts, was when the Sony XBR929 had it's FALD accidentally turned off. Having owned that display, I asked why the blacks were so poor on this unit and that a setting must be wrong. When checked, Kevin Miller saw the FALD was turned off. He turned it back on with dramatic results. But having FALD on & off is a hell of a lot more dramatic than one click on the brightness setting.
Ken I don't know what you are trying to get to here but the one thing that I learned was that the calibration was critical because as you read in Kevin Collins review, he gave the vote to LG because the color was slightly more accurate than the A1. I was there on judging day early, before you arrived and I saw the interaction concerning the LG which was very appropriate. From what I understand, all the sets were checked and adjusted by the calibration team because they were so new that they apparently drifted slightly and they wanted to make sure that they were all perfect. LG was giving their input on this final checkout to make sure everything was correct and to their preferences which was totally fine and really demonstrated their commitment to perfection. I know because the were concerned about the contrast and the brightness settings on the LG.
ataneruo, pakten and Mike Strobel like this.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G Gen2
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified
jrref is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off