2017 TV Shootout Evaluation event will be in NYC, July 12 and July 13, 2017 - Page 81 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2401 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
Yes ,



The new Smartcast interface.
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post #2402 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The new Smartcast interface.
So now is going show this interface on the screen? Nice.
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post #2403 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
My friend had that M series ,It is not on the same league as the P. Sorry.

No they aren't the best displays for SDR content.


What I found on the M series is how hard it is to get the colors right. Any increase or decrease significantly affect the image ,It introduce artifacts.
The most recent FW releases, and especially the latest beta FW has turned the 2016 M into a calibrators dream. The block artifacts you are referring to is a bug, and shows up when adjusting red or green brightness in the CMS. I don't know if that's been fixed, but wasn't needed on the last calibration run. I didn't need to adjust any brightness settings for any of the primary or secondary colors. Shocking - I know.

The M series is a close cousin to the P, and I've had both side by side. For SDR content, the P looks about the same as the M. Now, when you get to WCG/HDR content the P rules for a number of reasons.

So, IYHO what are the best displays for SDR content?
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post #2404 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:14 AM
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So, IYHO what are the best displays for SDR content?
Pioneer plasma, such as KRP-500M/141FD.... OLED is very close though.
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post #2405 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:28 AM
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But it's my understanding the Amazon app is still not HDR capable and the YouTube app will never be. Unfortunately the native YouTube app - on the LG C7 anyway - is no longer working properly with HDR but this shouldn't be a permanent situation.
Vizio is simply waiting for final Amazon certification, and then HDR will be available. The first beta ( about two weeks ago ) didn't even get UHD.

YouTube HDR is problematic because they decided to support a codec ( VP9 ) which only works with a Google Chromecast Ultra streamer and/or a few TV's. Basically, VP9 requires that Vizio rework their SoC to support it. Maybe the 2018 models? Maybe they will want to wait for Google to start using non-proprietary standards? The battle for content control in your living room continues!
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post #2406 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
So now is going show this interface on the screen? Nice.
Very cool! And the app are actually hosted on a special website. When the app gets updated, everyone gets the update. No more having to manage that stuff.
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post #2407 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The most recent FW releases, and especially the latest beta FW has turned the 2016 M into a calibrators dream. The block artifacts you are referring to is a bug, and shows up when adjusting red or green brightness in the CMS. I don't know if that's been fixed, but wasn't needed on the last calibration run. I didn't need to adjust any brightness settings for any of the primary or secondary colors. Shocking - I know.

The M series is a close cousin to the P, and I've had both side by side. For SDR content, the P looks about the same as the M. Now, when you get to WCG/HDR content the P rules for a number of reasons.

So, IYHO what are the best displays for SDR content?

I edited my post while you replying ,I didn't mean to say that the P isn't the best display ,because at that price range it is the best you can get ,it offers a great performance and in some areas like the backlight have better performance than the top of the line Samsungs.

About the M ,Thats what I noticed while playing with the settings.He no longer have the M series so I can't comment on the updates.

The best as you can see is on the eyes of the owner. Plasma,Oled,LCD. They all have their pros and cons.
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post #2408 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by hi-fi andy View Post
Pioneer plasma, such as KRP-500M/141FD.... OLED is very close though.
The Pioneer is about to become a Unicorn.

How about a TV that you could walk into BB or Costco and buy today. Name a better SDR TV than the Vizio M that doesn't break the bank. In other words, if I was going to spend most of my watching time viewing SDR content, I wouldn't want to subject my LG E6 to such gauche signals, or spend 3x the $'s get only slightly better PQ.
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post #2409 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:50 AM
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The Pioneer is about to become a Unicorn.

How about a TV that you could walk into BB or Costco and buy today. Name a better SDR TV than the Vizio M that doesn't break the bank. In other words, if I was going to spend most of my watching time viewing SDR content, I wouldn't want to subject my LG E6 to such gauche signals, or spend 3x the $'s get only slightly better PQ.
Pioneer plasma is still the go to reference for the SDR.

TCL P series, it's getting good reviews. Looks like a worthy competitor to the Vizio.
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post #2410 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The Pioneer is about to become a Unicorn.

How about a TV that you could walk into BB or Costco and buy today. Name a better SDR TV than the Vizio M that doesn't break the bank. In other words, if I was going to spend most of my watching time viewing SDR content, I wouldn't want to subject my LG E6 to such gauche signals, or spend 3x the $'s get only slightly better PQ.
OLED displays have a HDR like look to them with SDR content and I wouldn't exactly characterize high quality streaming and Blu-ray disks as gauge signals.

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post #2411 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 10:57 AM
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Pioneer plasma is still the go to reference for the SDR.

TCL P series, it's getting good reviews. Looks like a worthy competitor to the Vizio.
Agree, the Pioneer is probably the best reference SDR TV. I suppose it will stay that way until the day comes that SDR is a thing of the past. The TCL P looks like it will give Vizio a serious run. Impressive.
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post #2412 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hi-fi andy View Post
Pioneer plasma is still the go to reference for the SDR.

TCL P series, it's getting good reviews. Looks like a worthy competitor to the Vizio.

There are still debates between plasmas. Some will say pioneer others Panasonic and others Samsung. It never ends...
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post #2413 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 11:05 AM
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OLED displays have a HDR like look to them with SDR content and I wouldn't exactly characterize high quality streaming and Blu-ray disks as gauge signals.
I was attempting a little humor with the "gauche" comment, but signals such as cable/satellite ( 720P, 1080i ) definitely fall into that gauche category. SDR signals on my E6 do look better, but you pay a hefty premium for just a little improvement simply because there's only so much data in an SDR signal. After that, the TV has to start making things up.
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post #2414 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 11:10 AM
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OLED displays have a HDR like look to them with SDR content and I wouldn't exactly characterize high quality streaming and Blu-ray disks as gauge signals.
Agree ,the Oleds image looks much more dynamic than a plasma ,SDR content looks like HDR.
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post #2415 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 11:13 AM
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Pioneer plasma is still the go to reference for the SDR.

TCL P series, it's getting good reviews. Looks like a worthy competitor to the Vizio.
Some coming from plasmas would agree with that and some wouldn't. OLED display models certainly aren't better with motion and near black uniformity but are probably the equal or better with everything else.
@D-Nice can speak for himself but I got the impression from him when he first got his B7 that the threshold was passed but to be fair he could have taken the HDR aspect into the equation.
@sonoftumble - sorry for not catching the humor, my bad
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post #2416 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 11:15 AM
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What was it about the styling that you saw as a negative?
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mainly the easel stand. and even though most say that slight tilt backwards is not discernible when viewing from the front, i don't like that it's there.
Even though it is a great TV being discussed in shoot outs, it is way too thick and the stand is not removable and lets not forget about the "innovative" speaker.

I'd prefer all of them to come in W7 flavor without that silly ribbon cable. Wish list!
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post #2417 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 11:19 AM
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Hey everyone. Thanks for that discussion. It was fun and informative. And best of all, we didn't care who won the shootout!!
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post #2418 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 11:23 AM
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Agree ,the Oleds image looks much more dynamic than a plasma ,SDR content looks like HDR.
It's the unlimited contrast of the OLED that makes everything pop. I have my E6 in the man cave, and my wife is always jockeying for an excuse to watch RH of OC on it. Your eyes are just naturally drawn to that picture. Hopefully someday everyone will be able to afford and enjoy.
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Here's a review of the 65G7 by Steve Withers, posted just a few hours ago.

https://www.avforums.com/review/lg-g...v-review.13753
According Withers the Panasonic EZ1000 OLED can do 1080 lines of motion resolution. All the other OLEDs he reviewed after that one are just ''nearer 1000 lines''. Last time i checked OLEDs could not go beyond 650 lines of motion resolution. ''nearer 1000 lines''..what does that even mean
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Here's a review of the 65G7 by Steve Withers, posted just a few hours ago.

https://www.avforums.com/review/lg-g...v-review.13753
Outside of a big firmware update for any of new big 3, there isn't much new reviews will offer.

The next event that could be interesting in the UK shootout as it'll have the Panny and Loewe OLED's also. Even then it'll be splitting hairs laced with passive aggressive comments.
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I'd prefer all of them to come in W7 flavor without that silly ribbon cable. Wish list!
It's not the ribbon (I would rather deal with that than a separate power cord like on the Samsungs) I'm concerned with but what it's connected to at the other end. My wish list would be to have the option of just an elegant box.
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The photo sony did not want you to see!


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The photo sony did not want you to see!


Ouch!
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The photo sony did not want you to see!


Wow! My heart stopped for a second.

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Living dangerously!
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^^ Or dangerous living!
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Ouch!
The Sony would never work on my riser on my TV stand.

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post #2428 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 01:39 PM
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And you expect people to respond to your posts with this kind of nastiness?

To be perfectly honest, I don't usually read and/or respond to your posts/essays. I always know they will be centered in some kind of anti-OLED diatribe. So why read it when these are OLED threads, supposedly populated by posters who actually enjoy OLED
I did not find 2016 LG OLED enjoyable. I found the horrendous above black issues, including crushed shadow detail and overly-coarse black level controls, poor to mediocre processing, artifact-prone Trumotion motion processing, and not very good HDR tone-mapping all amounting to way too much hype for 2016 LG OLED. The Z9D is a better 2016 display, if one views their LED head on, like I always do.

So bottom line, as usual, you find some way to avoid telling us your brightness setting on your B6 while watching that opening intro to Planet Earth II. It's obvious you simply do not want to tell us. So how can we take your claims to minimal banding on your B6 in that opening scene when you won't tell us how much you are crushing blacks to hide that banding/contouring? How much are you crushing blacks to get that dark black space?

Where do you get that I am anti-OLED?

Look at my screen name. I think the A1E is a really nice display, and I want one. Not sure it is $1500 better than a 65C7, however, so I think it is still overpriced, even though I can get discount pricing lower than all the best deals mentioned in the deals section. $500 lower from here and I might buy one.

I just bought a 65C7 Friday and it will be delivered here within the hour or two. So much for me being anti-LG or anti-OLED. I am very much anti-2016 LG OLED, as I don't think that the two 2016 LG OLEDs I owned were worthy of keeping in my household.

I am keeping an open mind, and will set-up the C7 right next to my Z9D with UHD HDR splitter and I will no longer have to take anyone else's word for it on AVS, but I will see with my own eyes just how much LG has closed the gap in processing and near-black shadow detail, noise etc. compared to the extremely clean presentation on the Z9D.

I don't expect it to match the Z9D for cleanness of above black representation, and handling of less than pristine compressed sources, but I hope it is not too far off such that the C7 is an overall better display.

Also, I will spend quite a bit of time comparing HDR content side by side with Z9D to see if 2017 LG OLED HDR is significantly improved, because on my 2016 LG OLEDs, HDR was a total disaster, which is why it was beaten in the 2016 HDR shootout by a couple of LCDs, and HDTVtest called the Z9D the best HDR display of 2016, not OLED.
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post #2429 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 01:59 PM
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It's very easy to criticize. I was there for the 3 days as an observer and helped out when asked, and I can tell you this event is no small task and we are very lucky to have it. It's not perfect but it will get better as we move forward. What a lot of folks loose site of is that Retail sets have evolved and the Shootout is trying to evolve as well. Joel tells a story that years ago the sets were so different in many respects that it was straight forward to see which was the best. Now, not so easy. I agree they needed more judges and a more diverse group but these guys did an incredible job and it's ok to constructively comment but don't take anything away from this effort. Robert, Joel, Kevin and the rest are the one of the best in the industry and their best efforts should be applauded.
A shootout where we cannot tell what settings were used on each of the displays for each section that was judged, and we cannot even tell which specific content was displayed for the judging, and there were only 5 judges that voted, and no audience voting, and they will not even publish the scores in detail, is close to useless for those who were not there, with regards to the claimed results.

Obviously those like you who were physically present found it very useful.

The disclosure surrounding this shootout is awful. What is so difficult about telling us all the settings that were used on each display? Is it so hard to write down the settings and publish them so we can find out if they screwed up the settings in any way?

What is so hard about documenting and publishing specifically which clips/content were used to conduct the judging in the shootout?

I want to know exactly what scenes in HDR they showed, and which ones with real scenes around 1000-4000 nits. Where do I find this?

Little transparency equals little credibility.
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post #2430 of 3546 Old 07-23-2017, 02:09 PM
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Anyone with a head would not like LED's. I would die first before buying one.
What an absurd statement. A Z9D owns your VT60, unless you really enjoy viewing your displays off to the side.
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