Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 102 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3031 of 8123 Old 05-05-2017, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post
My A1 has been looking sweet especially with the Sony Green Sleeves demo with all the inky blacks and near black detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE2Jj9pgWWk
A couple of things, ABT even pointed out motion is better on A1 than Z9. Is this truly noticeable? Also, Rtings claims A1, Z9 and x930E have judder displaying 24p via 60p or 60i. Is this noticible? They claim that the C7 is judder free but this isn't the case (or maybe it is but motion is otherwise 'jerky' on occasion); what gives?
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post #3032 of 8123 Old 05-05-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
My quick summary after a night of testing for computer/gaming use:

1. A1E is physically gorgeous. I really love minimalist designs.
2. OLED panel, image is amazing. Not much else to say here.
3. TV has froze on me. Not totally sold on Android for TV's. IMO LG's OS is better.
4. A1E sound is good enough for listening to sports/talking. My normal HiFi speakers were obviously much better for music/movies.
5. 4K 4:4:4 60 Hz input lag (30ms) is noticeable but not super annoying. [Game mode]
6. Clarity "high" setting in which the panel is strobed 8ms on and 8ms off at 60 Hz is unusable. Very noticeable flicker. Resultant MPRT of 8ms was of course much clearer than the normal sample-and-hold 16ms MPRT of 60 Hz, but flicker precludes its use.
7. Using motion smoothing outside of game/graphics mode (only place you can enable) as expected is unusable. Frame interpolation (120 Hz) once again cuts the MPRT down to 8ms from 16ms, but large input lag and motion artifacts precludes its use.
8. TV is silly heavy. I think they went a bit overboard on this.
9. Disappointing that the max brightness is less than the LG's. ABL is also noticeable.
10. The TV will display an image above 60 Hz, but will frame skip rendering that moot.

11. Easter egg. Setting a custom 1080p resolution at 4:4:4 12-bit color at 120 Hz in game mode drops the input lag down to a tested average 15-20ms! This is a great TV for 1080p gamers. You get the 8ms MPRT motion clarity of 120 Hz sample-and-hold and also get that 120 Hz quick/smoothness with barely perceptible input lag. Just don't turn Clarity to "high", it still only strobes at 60 Hz rendering the other 60 Hz in darkness!
3. Did the TV froze while you were trying to go very fast moving in the menus? THat happened to me on a X850D with the same Sony TV with Android OS.

10. What do you mean by that? Do you mean the A1E skips while using motion interpolation up to 120hz or does it skips when you send the TV a real 120Hz input signal (aka [email protected])?

11. Interesting! Unfortunately not useable at 4k By the way, are you saying that a 120 fps game using pure sample and hold has the very same motion clarity as a 60 fps game using [email protected] ? I thought BFI was still better than sample and hold?

Thanks for your input!
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post #3033 of 8123 Old 05-05-2017, 08:33 PM
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3. Did the TV froze while you were trying to go very fast moving in the menus? THat happened to me on a X850D with the same Sony TV with Android OS.

10. What do you mean by that? Do you mean the A1E skips while using motion interpolation up to 120hz or does it skips when you send the TV a real 120Hz input signal (aka [email protected])?

11. Interesting! Unfortunately not useable at 4k By the way, are you saying that a 120 fps game using pure sample and hold has the very same motion clarity as a 60 fps game using [email protected] ? I thought BFI was still better than sample and hold?

Thanks for your input!
I think it froze when I was just messing about in picture settings.

10. The A1E frame skips if you go one Hz above its firmware prescribed refresh rate. IE: Frame skips at 61 Hz at 4K and 121 Hz at 1080p.

11. Yes, OLED pixels are almost instant, so all motion blur is eye tracking based. You get the same motion clarity of 8ms MPRT at 60 Hz BFI (each frame is 8ms on/8ms off) that you do at 120 Hz sample-and-hold. In this case, BFI is worse. 60 Hz noticeable flicker.

The only way BFI would be more clear is if the "on" pulse duration was less time. A good example of that is the Dell OLED monitor. It pulses 5ms on and 11ms off at 60 Hz. So it is clearer.
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post #3034 of 8123 Old 05-05-2017, 08:42 PM
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I think it froze when I was just messing about in picture settings.

10. The A1E frame skips if you go one Hz above its firmware prescribed refresh rate. IE: Frame skips at 61 Hz at 4K and 121 Hz at 1080p.

11. Yes, OLED pixels are almost instant, so all motion blur is eye tracking based. You get the same motion clarity of 8ms MPRT at 60 Hz BFI (each frame is 8ms on/8ms off) that you do at 120 Hz sample-and-hold. In this case, BFI is worse. 60 Hz noticeable flicker.

The only way BFI would be more clear is if the "on" pulse duration was less time. A good example of that is the Dell OLED monitor. It pulses 5ms on and 11ms off at 60 Hz. So it is clearer.
Ok but the flickering perception at 5ms on and 11ms off will be even worst no?

Also, on 120Hz sample and hold, you get two different frames per 16ms which is probably nice for input lag like you said and probably for PQ too?

120fps wth bfi @120 hz seems ideal according to blurbusters. I would try it out on pc monitors but I hate matte screens and the ones with BFI are all matte.
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post #3035 of 8123 Old 05-05-2017, 08:52 PM
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Ok but the flickering perception at 5ms on and 11ms off will be even worst no?

Also, on 120Hz sample and hold, you get two different frames per 16ms which is probably nice for input lag like you said and probably for PQ too?

120fps wth bfi @120 hz seems ideal according to blurbusters. I would try it out on pc monitors but I hate matte screens and the ones with BFI are all matte.
Yes, even more noticeable flicker. You could not use the Dell at all at 60 Hz since flicker was a permanent setting. This A1E flicker notice-ability is a little bit less, but still way above my comfort threshold.

Yes, at 120 Hz each frame is ~8ms. BUT, the lowering of input lag in 120 Hz mode is much greater than 8ms down from the normal 1080p 60 Hz ~47ms input lag. So that means 120 Hz 1080p is getting special bypass of processing that isn't occurring at 60 Hz 1080p.

Yes, 120 Hz single strobe (BFI) is wonderful. Too bad there is no OLED that does that.
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post #3036 of 8123 Old 05-05-2017, 09:02 PM
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I calibrated my A1 for a second time now that it has a lot more hours and I have to say that out of the box the PQ is pretty good but calibration makes the PQ really outstanding. Skin tones, color accuracy, the best I've ever seen. Even when I run the Calman Color Checker, the result is excellent. I'll post the scans over in the calibration thread.

I'm really enjoying this set
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post #3037 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 12:14 AM
 
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So it's confirmed the Panasonic will never get dolby vision in an update? If yes this is a no go for me even if I prefer SDR for now because mosr sources are SDR.

Some UHD blu-ray with dolby vision are coming soon and games will probably use it at some point too. A1E or LG seems more future proof.

Edit: I just read that panasonic is confident on managing the screen to only use hdr10 and hlg. I also read elsewhere that dolby vision content will work on hdr10 tvs? Are they saying it will ignore the dv flags and show it in SDR or are they saying some kind of DV to HDR10 on-the-fly conversion will take place?
Per their product announcement, Panny is not supporting Dolby Vision in any of their 2017 LCDs or OLEDs.

Does this mean that Panny's new HCX2 chip in their 2017 OLED EZ models couldn't handle DV metadata IF Panny later changed their mind about supporting DV? No. But it also doesn't necessarily mean that the HCX2 could either. Bottom line, only Panasonic engineers know if their 2017 HCX2 chip could support DV. Consumers do not.

But again, regardless if their HCX2 chip is capable of processing DV metadata or not, Panny has pretty strongly stated that they're not supporting DV as a company. I would say their position closely mirrors Samsung's position about DV. So as a consumer, if DV is mandatory for you, it would be foolish to expect that a 2017 Panny OLED will deliver DV for you. Just like it would be foolish for a 2017 Samsung LCD consumer to expect DV on their sets.

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post #3038 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 01:00 AM
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For the wall mount folks who are worried about how far this set protrudes from the wall, you can always do something like this. Good for entertaining.



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post #3039 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 01:03 AM
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For the wall mount folks who are worried about how far this set protrudes from the wall, you can always do something like this. Good for entertaining.



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That looks GREAT


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post #3040 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 01:06 AM
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The Clearness/BFI function works in Game Mode, on an OLED?

OH LORD, I NEED THIS TV. I have never wanted something so much. I'm used to 60hz BFI from other sets, and doesn't bother me in the least. WHY did it have to be so expensive. ;__;

I apologize, I seriously didn't see this was the Owner's Thread. Future owner maybe.
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I was considering getting the 77" A1E to replace the W7 in my living room.. and use the W7 for a racing station setup I've been wanting to build.. I'm not sure about that yet but I feel totally confident the A1E would be great in my bright living room.
Do it, think it'd make about 10 of us now here excruciatingly waiting for the 77" A1E.
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post #3042 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 01:25 AM
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For the wall mount folks who are worried about how far this set protrudes from the wall, you can always do something like this. Good for entertaining.



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Welcome to Hell?
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Welcome to Hell?


Any color combo you want #hue


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@Nick Martelli - You want me (98" OLED) on that wall. You NEED me on that wall!
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post #3045 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 01:30 AM
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Haha. 77 a1e in sept.


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@Nick Martelli - You want me (98" OLED) on that wall. You NEED me on that wall!


My wife needs to see the wood we paid for


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For the wall mount folks who are worried about how far this set protrudes from the wall, you can always do something like this. Good for entertaining.



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Won't want to with all that light behind the screen!!
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Welcome to Hell?
Looks awesome! If I owned that I'd call it the Blood Room. I really do watch too many horror movies.
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I have been setting mine up and have run into an issue.

Are any of you running a Xbox One S through a Denon AVR...especially the X#300 series (4300, 6300, etc.)?

I have enabled the enhanced HDMI signal in the A1Es menu and turned on the 4k and HDR features on the Xbox. Yet, the signal drops over and over...video...no video...video...no video.

If I bypass the Denon, all works well. What am I missing?
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Unless there are some manufacturing breakthroughs coming in the name of yields and uniformity at that size, I would be careful about grabbing a 77" until really putting one through its paces.
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post #3051 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 03:44 AM
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Oh my gosh ...i placed a reservation here in stockholm sweden after 20 min prerelease presentation. I never rush like this...
I was almost convinced to buy 75ZD9 but this thing blows up anything...and was not calibrated...LG B7 seemed puny , ZD9 was banding everywhere ... The A1 was perfect i tried to find difects but.. no ... I can't
Whatched planeth earth 2 , oblivion , martian ... The LG had no so many black details as the A1
Now I understand Al ... this thing is jaw dropping
Now i understand that ABT says they prefer the A1 motion to the Z9D... It s true ..it s better... And this said by me liking more the motion on Z9D over the LG OLED...
I thank all the people writing here...i came to the presentation knowing what to look for and settings to change etc etc
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Originally Posted by KB47 View Post
Thanks, somehow I missed it. The info says up to 55", so I assume that's what you have. My needs are for a 65" and there are similar stand legs on Amazon that accommodate a 65". Also, considering how awkward these units are wall mounted, I'm wondering if there is any issue with your installation. A photo front and back would GREATLY be appreciated. I did find this similar product that indicates Heavy Duty, adjustable height and accommodates up to 70" panel (see link). If you have a photo front and back, it would provide me useful visual clues how this solution works. THANKS!

https://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Univ...01N1HXPVI?th=1
It's a 65, it works fine.

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post #3053 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 04:05 AM
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While waiting for answer you may use the sketches (and a ruler)
Thanks, this answers my question. The 55in is 48in wide and the actuator bar is about 3/4 of the length. So it's about 36in. That gives about 6in on each side. Meaning it would fit my space.

That's again for thinking of me.
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post #3054 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 04:09 AM
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For the wall mount folks who are worried about how far this set protrudes from the wall, you can always do something like this. Good for entertaining.



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If you have kodi i think you can control the Philips hue lights you have with a plug-in. It will be like Phillips ambilight and its great

P.S. no oled size will suit you, you need a good PJ
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post #3055 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 05:29 AM
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Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Owners Thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post
I have been setting mine up and have run into an issue.



Are any of you running a Xbox One S through a Denon AVR...especially the X#300 series (4300, 6300, etc.)?



I have enabled the enhanced HDMI signal in the A1Es menu and turned on the 4k and HDR features on the Xbox. Yet, the signal drops over and over...video...no video...video...no video.



If I bypass the Denon, all works well. What am I missing?


Sounds like a handshake issue or a bad cable. I have the 6300.

I have the 4300 upstairs and it was doing that just last week! I had to reestablish the handshake with dr. Hdmi. It happened after I updated it's firmware.


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Last edited by Nick Martelli; 05-06-2017 at 05:41 AM.
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Won't want to with all that light behind the screen!!


Well you turn them off during the movie


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post #3057 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Unless there are some manufacturing breakthroughs coming in the name of yields and uniformity at that size, I would be careful about grabbing a 77" until really putting one through its paces.


I thought each 77 is carefully inspected.


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post #3058 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 05:39 AM
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Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Owners Thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
If you have kodi i think you can control the Philips hue lights you have with a plug-in. It will be like Phillips ambilight and its great

P.S. no oled size will suit you, you need a good PJ


Yeah I have tried the 'sync my lights app'. It uses your phone's mic to find out where you are in a movie and if the movie is in the database it will work like an ambilight. Gets annoying though so I have these auto dim or off during a film.

I can control all this with the harmony remotes too.

No projector can match this tv. It's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. 77 will barely do but it'll be just fine ;-)


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post #3059 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 06:43 AM
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I've noticed improved balances now having ran the TV for some time.. I hope in the VE shootout all the TVs get a chance to be properly broken in and calibrated.
Oh yes, for the shootout all the sets are broken in and calibrated. A huge job!

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post #3060 of 8123 Old 05-06-2017, 06:45 AM
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Ya I found it thanks. I love how every TV manufacturer has to call it something different.

I also found that the TV is only single strobing at Clearness setting "high" (60 Hz). Super apparent flicker. Will probably box the TV up tonight.
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11. Yes, OLED pixels are almost instant, so all motion blur is eye tracking based. You get the same motion clarity of 8ms MPRT at 60 Hz BFI (each frame is 8ms on/8ms off) that you do at 120 Hz sample-and-hold. In this case, BFI is worse. 60 Hz noticeable flicker.

The only way BFI would be more clear is if the "on" pulse duration was less time. A good example of that is the Dell OLED monitor. It pulses 5ms on and 11ms off at 60 Hz. So it is clearer.
Sorry I didn't get to this before today but was finally able to record the A1E with my 1000 fps camera. It confirms your findings of 60Hz BFI. See the attached animated gif. Sorry about the low resolution but that's a limit of my camera when recording at 1000 fps. Each frame is 1ms. As you can see, it scans the screen from top to bottom instead of flashing it all at once.

Each person has different sensitivity to 60hz flicker. It didn't bother me. But at the same time, I found the motion resolutions still pretty poor. Using the industry standard FPD Motion Resolution benchmark, I got about 600 lines. Not even close to my old CRTs. I would still take this over LG's 600 lines with motion interpolation because I can't stand interpolation artifacts.
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