Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 110 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3271 of 8123 Old 05-09-2017, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sebring5 View Post
Although I do not have the update yet, there is a TV Software Update App on my home page that explains the update in detail.
Can you take a photo / screen shot to list the update details?
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post #3272 of 8123 Old 05-09-2017, 07:20 PM
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Take a look at this post, interesting -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post52866329

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post #3273 of 8123 Old 05-09-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sameh View Post
but after seeing this review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYk9qg3rd_c

I must say, the LG looks tempting and can't believe that what you can get for A1E 55", will get you C7 65", this is killing it!
So here's the thing, despite all of the specifications and measurements, you can clearly see that the A1 has brighter highlights than the C7 in the side by side photo's in this review. I can see this in person at the Value Electronics showroom where they have the LG, A1 and the Z9 right next to each other. The Z9, depending on content has even brighter highlights than the A1.

It seems that Sony is doing some unique picture processing to make this happen.
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post #3274 of 8123 Old 05-09-2017, 07:35 PM
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Does anyone know where to download the full resolution video clips that are resident on the A1 in Retail Mode?

Also I think that there is a 23.3% improvement in PQ with the Sony Update that was released today!

Something definitely changed in HDR mode.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post52866329

I'll have to verify the next time I put the meter on the set.
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post #3275 of 8123 Old 05-09-2017, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post

Bingo. Rtings gave the C7 and the A1E the same motion score of 9.7, and yet ...

C7 review:
"There are some bugs in the interpolation which causes more stuttering than usual, especially with our full-screen pattern."

A1E review:
"There are significantly less artifacts than the C7 which has a buggy interpolation feature."
Hmmm RTing!!
Well just look at the sound score.... THD high at max... Well when i was visioning at 1/4 of volume it was quite high sound pressure....
Scott Wilkinson said was great .. i heard it was greate... But no the funny Canadian says non good enough...at max..."because in a party..."
Probably he means party when he tries to torture terrorists with unbereable sound pressure..
Who is so crazy to crank the volume so high???
But the C7.. ahhh well get a score like ot was a stereo system... Well strange i don t see the speakers..
This site as a LG syndrome....anything is not lg is worse by definition...
Lg is not bad but not either the top in my opinion....
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post #3276 of 8123 Old 05-09-2017, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Does anyone know where to download the full resolution video clips that are resident on the A1 in Retail Mode?

Also I think that there is a 23.3% improvement in PQ with the Sony Update that was released today!

Something definitely changed in HDR mode.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post52866329

I'll have to verify the next time I put the meter on the set.
Will this nullify the calibration VE did on my tv? Now needing re-calibrated?
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post #3277 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 12:31 AM
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^^^YES, it will need to be re-calibrated.
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post #3278 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post
^^^YES, it will need to be re-calibrated.
Jeez.. just paid $600 for calibration and expecting delivery today.

Lesson learned
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post #3279 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
How is 110 nits too dark? Industry standard for dark-room viewing is 100-120 nits. Review sites like hdtvtest, avforums, etc. all calibrate to this brightness range. They all use OLED Light setting to get there.

If all you're after is a pretty calibration report, go ahead and lower contrast. Just be aware that calibration only tests <1% of possible colors. I'll stick to opinions of calibrators I trust who said large contrast changes will reduce image quality on real-world content.

This is drifting off-topic. I just wanted to clear up the false claim that Sony hasn't improved ABL response compared LG B6 model. If you want to discuss this further, let's move to the official LG 2016 OLED calibration thread.
Sorry, but with OLED light 25 they generate Plasma like ABL which is not necessary. The other way around even with older OLEDs you don´t have ABL in a brightness range around 120-150cd/m² at APL 100-10% if you use the right setting for OLED Light and Contrast.
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post #3280 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post
My 65" A1E arrived today. Hopefully can get it mounted tonight but since I'm still in the middle of reviewing the X900E, I'm not certain that will happen tonight or if it'll be in a day or two.
Be sure to wait for the Android 7 update before starting your review! All the other reviews out there are based on launch firmware so will be interesting to see if anything changed.
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post #3281 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
You know there's people that would say the same thing on a 2017 Genesis G80 over a 2017 E Class..

By all means, the C7 is a great first OLED.
yeah, I'd do that if it will get me a 2017 Genesis G80 with S-Class engine and trans, rather than getting an E-Class with a Korean Hyundai Engine and trans and saved some bucks for a bigger engine

the C7 fulfill the needs for both gamer/movie lover and ready from day one

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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So here's the thing, despite all of the specifications and measurements, you can clearly see that the A1 has brighter highlights than the C7 in the side by side photo's in this review. I can see this in person at the Value Electronics showroom where they have the LG, A1 and the Z9 right next to each other. The Z9, depending on content has even brighter highlights than the A1.

It seems that Sony is doing some unique picture processing to make this happen.
surely A1E could have a better processing picture/motion and that's all, knowing the limitation of ABL, Image retention issue and terrible lag performance shows the lake of experience if they got the same 2017 panel
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post #3282 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post
Oh, please. The content on the two displays (A1E/Z9D) are obviously not in sync, and from the photo one is delayed, and you two are trying to make a serious comparison from this?

Here is the shot, which is not showing the same scene of stars.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...5&d=1494022153

p.s. I have my Z9D sitting side by side next to my C6 OLED, so no need for me to try and guess or speculate about how the Z9D stacks up against LG's OLED blacks. The Z9D does not look gray next to my LG OLED at all. The truth is, the vast majority of the time (especially with SDR) the blacks are essentially equally as dark and there is no major visible difference.

On very challenging scenes, like starfields in the black of space, the blacks on the Z9D are about the same as the OLED. The difference is not that the Z9D blacks look gray next to the OLED, rather the difference is the dynamic range of the brightness in stars is compressed on the Z9D. The OLED displays a greater disparity in brightness among stars, with some stars appearing very bright, while others can be very dim. The very bright stars look more muted on the Z9D and closer in brightness to the dim ones. Sony has decided to sacrifice some specular brightness in order to keep the darkness of space as black as OLED on scenes like this, and to not show obvious blooming on starfields. Obviously OLED can perform better on a starfield, but not because it is noticeably "blacker" than the Z9D, but because the highlights (stars) can be brighter while maintaining the blackness of space.

For SDR at least, the darkness of blacks and depth on the Z9D is almost the same as my 2016 LG OLED. The black letterbox bars, even if they cannot be perfect black hole black like on the OLED, are sufficiently dark and close enough to black that the bars are never distracting as long as you are doing what you should be doing, watching the content in-between the letterbox bars, and not the bars themselves.

If you set OLED side by side with Z9D and stare intently at the letterbox bars, sure the OLED will always win. But do you stare at the black bars during a movie, or do you watch the content inside the letterbox bars? With SDR, as long as the letterbox bars are in your peripheral vision, they are plenty dark enough on the Z9D that they are never a distraction or looking gray, but essentially black. Of course, seating distance also plays a major role in how much light spillage is detectable in black bars. If one walks up real close to inspect the black bars, they will more easily detect light spillage than from a further seating distance.

I even can see some slight light spillage into black bars on my OLED if there is a bright enough highlight near the edge. Whether that is a result of reflections within the display, or a limitation of the human visual system (point spread function), matters little. I can still see some blooming/haloing or light spillage on bright white lettering with my OLED.



Do you even own the A1E? You keep referencing an LG to the Z9D but no mention of the A1E, me thinks you're in the wrong thread.....
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post #3283 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:06 AM
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I have the optical out to my AVR.
It automatically switches to "external speakers" whenever I turn on the receiver, I tried to play with the controls of the receiver to no avail.
Bummer, now we have to hope that Sony is seeing some of this feedback and will do an update to allow center channel from the TV.
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post #3284 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So here's the thing, despite all of the specifications and measurements, you can clearly see that the A1 has brighter highlights than the C7 in the side by side photo's in this review. I can see this in person at the Value Electronics showroom where they have the LG, A1 and the Z9 right next to each other. The Z9, depending on content has even brighter highlights than the A1.

It seems that Sony is doing some unique picture processing to make this happen.
All I can see is a higher contrat on the Sony that result in clipped detail in it.

Look at the building near the sky, you lost massive details. I don't think those TV were calibrated.

Top left: LG C7 (OLED55C7P). Bottom left: Sony X930E (XBR55X930E). Middle: Sony A1E (XBR55A1E). Top right: Sony Z9D (XBR65Z9D). Bottom right: Samsung Q7F (QN55Q7F).

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post #3285 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:29 AM
 
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This site as a LG syndrome....anything is not lg is worse by definition...
Lg is not bad but not either the top in my opinion....
Well their LG LCD are rated like crap on their site (they deserve it).

Sony LCD TV are very well rated on their site however (They also deserve it).

Like any reviews site, look at the score and data that matter to you.
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post #3286 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:35 AM
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Uh-oh, just read Rtings' reviews of the Sony A1 and LG C7...


A1 gets 8.6 overall while C7 gets 8.7 overall...

A1 = 9.0 for movies
C7 = 9.2 for movies

(both have 8.7 on picture quality)


real scene peak brightness only 600 nits on A1 while 750 nits on C7...


A1: 2.21 gamma
C7: 2.2 perfect gamma

A1: 1.57 DeltaE
C7: 1.22 DeltaE

White balance E:

A1: 0.4
C7: 0.15



Input lag appears to be 20ms lower on C7 in most modes/settings compared to A1

P3 Colour Volume around 15% greater on C7 compared to A1.



WOW. I'm absolutely gobbsmacked. the C7 pretty much destroys the A1, and I hate LG and love Sony... Totally disappointed with the Sony A1 while completely overwhelmed with the C7's performance. Okay the difference obviously aren't huge, but if you look past the areas where the TVs are equal (0 nit blacks, infinite contrast, DCI-p3 CG gamut, 10 bit, etc..) the LG has it beat in every single aspect. Gamma and DeltaE are obviously nitpicks and not visible to the naked eye (still though!) but the significantly lower input lag, significantly higher HDR peak brightness and significantly higher colour volume makes LG the clear victor.

Well done LG, shame on Sony.


Not trolling or hating, if anyone's seen my previous post I made clear predictions that the best TVs of 2017 would be:
1. Sony A1
2. Panasonic EZ1000
3. LG 7 series
4-5. FALDs..


So I guess Panasonic is our saviour

Edit: And that was concluded with price excluded from equation... Factor in price and the C7 presents are ridiculously good value
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Last edited by SnellTHX; 05-10-2017 at 04:38 AM. Reason: price not even factored in
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post #3287 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by våge View Post
Hmmm RTing!!

This site as a LG syndrome....anything is not lg is worse by definition...
Lg is not bad but not either the top in my opinion....

Not sure if you're serious... Its mostly other companies getting hype, not LG. I think LG generally is a crappy manufacturer. They weren't good in the CRT days, their plasmas were an embarrassment to the technology; Kuro plasmas from 2008 outperform virtually any LCD 9 years on (!!!), Panasonic and Samsung plasmas from 2009-2013 ruled the #1 and #2 spot every single year, while mid range Panasonic and Samsung plasmas outperformed high-end LCDs from the same year. LG's plasmas performed WORSE than LCDs, even the blacks/contrast couldn't compete with LCDs and that was plasmas main strength... You had one job, LG.



Then there's their LCDs, which if you look at Rtings.... Are garbage. LG flagship LCDs perform worse than mid range Samsung and Sonys and mid range LGs perform worse than Hisense, TCL, Vizio, etc...


LG has been the worst (large) manufacturer of TVs since they started making TVs and only until 2014-present have they competiting for top spot, but that's only because they have a monopoly on consumer OLED panels.

Once Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips start making their own OLED panels I don't think we'll ever see LG being a top 5 contender again.


$0.02
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post #3288 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:49 AM
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^OK, you've read one review (Rtings), having made some far-reaching conclusions without having evaluated anything for yourself (apparently), maybe you're jumping the gun a bit. This thread's officially gone off the rails. Panasonic TV division has one foot in the grave and doesn't apply to us stateside (where this site is based).

And just stop with the broad generalizations! The past does not necessarily predict the future in all things. And LG actually won the 2014 shootout where Samsung even tried to compete with their $10k OLED, so please keep your presuppositions in check.
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Last edited by video_analysis; 05-10-2017 at 04:58 AM.
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post #3289 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
Uh-oh, just read Rtings' reviews of the Sony A1 and LG C7...


A1 gets 8.6 overall while C7 gets 8.7 overall...

A1 = 9.0 for movies
C7 = 9.2 for movies

(both have 8.7 on picture quality)


real scene peak brightness only 600 nits on A1 while 750 nits on C7...


A1: 2.21 gamma
C7: 2.2 perfect gamma

A1: 1.57 DeltaE
C7: 1.22 DeltaE

White balance E:

A1: 0.4
C7: 0.15



Input lag appears to be 20ms lower on C7 in most modes/settings compared to A1

P3 Colour Volume around 15% greater on C7 compared to A1.



WOW. I'm absolutely gobbsmacked. the C7 pretty much destroys the A1, and I hate LG and love Sony... Totally disappointed with the Sony A1 while completely overwhelmed with the C7's performance. Okay the difference obviously aren't huge, but if you look past the areas where the TVs are equal (0 nit blacks, infinite contrast, DCI-p3 CG gamut, 10 bit, etc..) the LG has it beat in every single aspect. Gamma and DeltaE are obviously nitpicks and not visible to the naked eye (still though!) but the significantly lower input lag, significantly higher HDR peak brightness and significantly higher colour volume makes LG the clear victor.

Well done LG, shame on Sony.


Not trolling or hating, if anyone's seen my previous post I made clear predictions that the best TVs of 2017 would be:
1. Sony A1
2. Panasonic EZ1000
3. LG 7 series
4-5. FALDs..


So I guess Panasonic is our saviour

Edit: And that was concluded with price excluded from equation... Factor in price and the C7 presents are ridiculously good value
So with all of the specifications, measurements, etc, the Sony still has brighter highlights than the C7 probably due to Sony's superior picture processing. As far as nits, I've measured both sets and the C7 is about 50-75 nits brighter in peak luminance which I doubt you will be able to see watching HDR content. The A1s consistently measure around 650-680 and the C7s around 700-720. All the other measurements, except lag, are very close. You can't go wrong with either set but you really need to see them side by side.

Also, I don't believe that the Panasonic is going to have DV!
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post #3290 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
Not sure if you're serious... Its mostly other companies getting hype, not LG. I think LG generally is a crappy manufacturer. They weren't good in the CRT days, their plasmas were an embarrassment to the technology; Kuro plasmas from 2008 outperform virtually any LCD 9 years on (!!!), Panasonic and Samsung plasmas from 2009-2013 ruled the #1 and #2 spot every single year, while mid range Panasonic and Samsung plasmas outperformed high-end LCDs from the same year. LG's plasmas performed WORSE than LCDs, even the blacks/contrast couldn't compete with LCDs and that was plasmas main strength... You had one job, LG.



Then there's their LCDs, which if you look at Rtings.... Are garbage. LG flagship LCDs perform worse than mid range Samsung and Sonys and mid range LGs perform worse than Hisense, TCL, Vizio, etc...


LG has been the worst (large) manufacturer of TVs since they started making TVs and only until 2014-present have they competiting for top spot, but that's only because they have a monopoly on consumer OLED panels.

Once Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips start making their own OLED panels I don't think we'll ever see LG being a top 5 contender again.


$0.02
>>
LG has been the worst (large) manufacturer of TVs since they started making TVs and only until 2014-present have they competiting for top spot, but that's only because they have a monopoly on consumer OLED panels.
<<
Which is because they were smart enough to buy the Kodak OLED patents.

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post #3291 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by beavil View Post
Will this nullify the calibration VE did on my tv? Now needing re-calibrated?
Good question, the answer is no, the calibration won't be affected since Sony probably fixed the HDR tone mapping which is the part of the signal that the set tries to reproduce after the set rolls off and there is no adjustment for it.
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
>>
LG has been the worst (large) manufacturer of TVs since they started making TVs and only until 2014-present have they competiting for top spot, but that's only because they have a monopoly on consumer OLED panels.
<<
Which is because they were smart enough to buy the Kodak OLED patents.
Never loose hope in Korean manufacturer.

Look at KIA and Hyundai, they used to be the most crappiest car manufacturer ever. Now they produce car almost on par with Toyota and Honda (some people will even say they are better).

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post #3293 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post
^^^YES, it will need to be re-calibrated.
Sorry, you don't know what you are talking about. If you have scans that prove your assumption, which can't possibly be true because of the way the Sony HDR picture modes work, then post them in the A1 calibration thread. I looked at the HDR scans before and after and the only thing I can see is that the tone mapping may have been fixed in HDR Custom which there are no controls to adjust.
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post #3294 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 05:11 AM
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@eganz1 , @kkapoor , other A1E owners who've updated to Nougat:

1. Have any of you who use Kodi noticed a performance increase when upgrading to Nougat? Any Kodi freezes or shutdowns?

2. Have any of you been able to side-load Android APKs on the A1E?


Thanks for any feedback if/when you get the chance to test things out.
I did have one Netflix freeze yesterday, now with android 7.
Remote control became frozen as well.
I was able to get out of this by pressing the power button on the back of the TV and then turning it back on from the back...

E

Theater: Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra HD, Oppo-205, Anthem AVM60, 7.1.4 B & W CM 7 LR,CDM-cse, CM 1, CM 1 S2, Silverline minuet , SVS SB13 Ultra, Rotel RMB 1555, Parasound A23, Naim NAP 100, EEcolor lut box. Calman, MobileForge, I1D3 & I1pro 2.
Stereo: Aurender N100H, Auralic Vega DAC, Focal Chorus 836 W, BAT VK-3ix, Pass XA 30.5, PPP.
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post #3295 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 05:14 AM
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All I can see is a higher contrat on the Sony that result in clipped detail in it.

Look at the building near the sky, you lost massive details. I don't think those TV were calibrated.

Top left: LG C7 (OLED55C7P). Bottom left: Sony X930E (XBR55X930E). Middle: Sony A1E (XBR55A1E). Top right: Sony Z9D (XBR65Z9D). Bottom right: Samsung Q7F (QN55Q7F).

You really can't use this graphic as a comparison because in real life these sets don't look like this side by side lol. You are right, after reading these reviews, I wonder if the sets in the side by side pictures are calibrated and in comparable picture modes.

John
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post #3296 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 05:17 AM
 
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You really can't use this graphic as a comparison because in real life these sets don't look like this side by side lol. You are right, after reading these reviews, I wonder if the sets in the side by side pictures are calibrated and in comparable picture modes.
I was responding to your comment saying this : you can clearly see that the A1 has brighter highlights than the C7 in the side by side photo's in this review

And now you're telling me I should not make comparison between that same image...

Ok lol sorry, have a nice day

Last edited by Quebecker; 05-10-2017 at 05:40 AM.
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post #3297 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 05:34 AM
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55 inch after 3 days of mixed usage.
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post #3298 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 06:00 AM
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Be sure to wait for the Android 7 update before starting your review! All the other reviews out there are based on launch firmware so will be interesting to see if anything changed.
If I could force the update I would, but it seems I can't right now and it's saying no update available at the moment. I'll give it a little bit today to catch up as I try to count the dimming zones on the X900E and finish some things up on it.

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Previously: Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, AnandTech.com, HDGuru.com and Electronic House
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post #3299 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 06:02 AM
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So with all of the specifications, measurements, etc, the Sony still has brighter highlights than the C7 probably due to Sony's superior picture processing. As far as nits, I've measured both sets and the C7 is about 50-75 nits brighter in peak luminance which I doubt you will be able to see watching HDR content. The A1s consistently measure around 650-680 and the C7s around 700-720.
the sony has brighter highlights but lower nits?
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post #3300 of 8123 Old 05-10-2017, 06:09 AM
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Anyone know how to check the hrs on these?
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