Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 115 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3421 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 01:17 AM
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I love this man!!

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post #3422 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 01:28 AM
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I've had my 65" A1E for two weeks and wonder about keeping the box. My sales person recommended keeping it for as long as possible. This box is huge, and intrusive to keep in the garage. So, how long will you keep your box and all that foam packing?

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post #3423 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jermar View Post
I've had my 65" A1E for two weeks and wonder about keeping the box. My sales person recommended keeping it for as long as possible. This box is huge, and intrusive to keep in the garage. So, how long will you keep your box and all that foam packing?
keep it until you're sure you are keeping the tv. I guess hanging onto it would be nice if you see yourself moving in the forseeable future.

After going through six replacement tv in 2015/16, I viewed recycling my current TV packaging almost as a rite of passage
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post #3424 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
True but there is a point where you have to settle as everything made today has some degree of screen uniformity......
I absolutely understand that. Not looking for perfection although that would be nice. My dad always told me nothing in life is perfect, but I'm talking about easily visible problems in conrent. Obviously if I watched demos all day I would probably never show itself.

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post #3425 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
keep it until you're sure you are keeping the tv. I guess hanging onto it would be nice if you see yourself moving in the forseeable future.

After going through six replacement tv in 2015/16, I viewed recycling my current TV packaging almost as a rite of passage
I agree. I try to keep all my equipment boxes. Makes it easier to sell too.
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post #3426 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
This is why owners have abandoned this thread.. too much tail chasing, speculations and naysaying from people who never saw the TV against a guy who is clearly telling you what it is...

I personally won't be posting in here anymore, I'd invite owners to no longer waste their time with subject matter beneath your ownership level.

If people want to observe what owners impressions are, let them look and not speak until they verify themselves as a owner.
Beneath your ownership level? What? LOL!

Anyway I'm here to suck up as much info as possible. So I'm happy that what seems like over top comments can be questioned...politely.

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post #3427 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Martelli View Post
Jesus man what a rant. I just watched star trek beyond on the A1 and there are scenes in there that make me squint they are so bright. May maybe you should buy the tv and see for yourself. Or come on by I don't care.


In a bright room z9d may have an advantage, but if you've got this sucker set up in the right space, it is untouchable. Brights, darks, motion, you name it.
Yeah I don't get the eye searing needs. I had a 500M in a relatively bright room and never thought it was unwatchable during the day. Then again I am a person who thinks critical viewing is done in the dark.

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post #3428 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 04:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dhalmo View Post
The only thing that is not mentioned is that the full data set for evaluation is not readily available, i.e. the reviews being applied online throughout utilize traditional static tests not in real world content. The problem with this approach is that it does not quantify the ability to utilize processing algorithms for optimized utilization of HDR. This invariably translates to users applying qualitative descriptions to the observed phenomenon. The descriptions can be doubted, as many have on this forum, because there is not a quantitative measurement standard for what the processing is doing so as to compare to different displays.
The Rtings real life test did not use a static image, it play a normal video but with a small 2% bright rectangle in it.

This way they can measure in real life how much the TV is able to output in a global scene. This test is really great. I think they are the only one who does it. Some TV with great score on static image got quite bad score in the real live test.
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post #3429 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jermar View Post
I've had my 65" A1E for two weeks and wonder about keeping the box. My sales person recommended keeping it for as long as possible. This box is huge, and intrusive to keep in the garage. So, how long will you keep your box and all that foam packing?
A month or so joe.

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post #3430 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
Sadly Rtings showed that in real life condition using their real life luminosity test, the C7 is still brighter in SDR and HDR.

It was a nice theory though. I'm still thinking it's just higher contrast with the benefit and problems inherent to it.

Another theory could be panel lottery. Last year OLED differed from almost 100 nits from panel to panel.
Is it possible that the 65" performs a little different than the 55"? I suppose with the same processing, that would mean the 65" LG's would be even brighter if the 65" Sony was brighter than the 55" for some reason. I just wonder if there is some variation. Rtings tested the 55", and the people you're talking to might have the 65".

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post #3431 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 05:33 AM
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Does anyone know how to configure the A1E install of Kodi to stream from LAN a 1:1 Blu-ray rip without any buffering or stutter. I know it's not a bandwidth issue as I'm using cat 6 cable and when I perform the same operation with my Nvidia Shield android TV I get perfect streaming to the A1E. It appears to be a memory management issue, not processing. I want the A1E to do the upscaling of 1080p , better than the Nvidia upscaling in my opinion.

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post #3432 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
Show me another consumer OLED with these color space selections...

I'll wait..

Now, ask any pro dCinema guy, graphic artist, or video grader..

How important are these settings to have on a 65" OLED display for pro work.

What you missed is Sony made the A1E not only for videophiles, but as the goto prosumer OLED for pros..

YOU are just not keen enough to understand these things.. doesn't mean it isn't so..

The TV is PERFECT..

No baselessness, show me AdobeRGB and DCI hard settings on another OLED.

Until then, I will say to anyone seriously looking at this TV, do your research on what the pros use.


I want to believe the A1 is the perfect TV, but where's your numbers / facts / evidence? Can you quantify its superiority over other OLEDs?
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post #3433 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 06:02 AM
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Two Weeks In: Plasma -> A1E

I've now owned my 55" A1E for just over 2 weeks, watching all sort of content for many hours each day (approaching 150 hrs). I provided my initial detailed impressions upthread HERE for those that may have missed it in this rather fast moving thread.

In any case, I love stats and technical discussion -- they are an important part of my research process before any major purchase like my new TV was, as well as while I'm becoming accustomed to the new product in my own practical use. OTOH, I do not obsess over small differences in the numbers or the latest review for a product that in this case I expect to provide me visual enjoyment with my own eyes in my own home -- not a reference-quality statistical POV inside a testing lab somewhere. That being said -- For me in my rather brightly lit family room, my practical viewing experience with my A1E hanging just under 8' away from me:
  • It's bright enough -- equal to or better than my plasma was. Sure, I'd love additional brightness to see even more very dark detail during the day, but I don't believe ANY TV tech I can afford today could provide enough AND give me the wide viewing angle I require in my room. As it is now with this week's firmware update (which is POST most of the reviews cited here), watching in a more dimly lit room so the detail is most evident, both SDR and HDR bright flashes in some movies are enough to make me squint -- just like at the movie theatre, but was never possible on my old plasma. Right or wrong, I believe I can see more dark area detail of my old HD 1080p source material, and of course in the few new 4K HDR Blu-rays I own, than I ever could. What this panel provides in brightness is enough for me in practical use. I don't believe some small number of nit difference would be visually apparent to me in practical use where I care most about content, as it is perhaps to some that are more into looking at the underlying technology or purposely-or-not fixating on visual problems they can find.
  • I've only seen annoying black crush as I played with some setting combinations before getting things better dialed-in for my taste. It is not something I consider an issue with my A1E.
  • I have had exactly ONE time I noticed a banding problem, and it was a brief moment while watching golf on DirecTV (1080i). When it happened, I was a little taken-back, but as I've paid more attention to this in the past few days, I consider it to have been an odd source issue, not some pervasive problem that drives me nuts. Again, banding is not an issue for me in practical use of my A1E.
  • I also have no issues with motion that a few others here continue to describe or be concerned with. Perhaps I'm not as sensitive, or it's that I wear bifocals 100% of the time, or I won the panel lottery, or some combination of those things. Regardless, "motion" is not a problem in my day-to-day viewing and the inconsequential amount of gaming I do.
I suspect if I had a G7, as I was likely going to purchase before I preordered the A1E sight-unseen, I'd be OK with it. Esthetically though, my A1E tops the G7 by not having the ugly sound bar bringing attention to itself that I would never use because of my AVR and 7.2 surround system. I still don't like the A1E's Android interface even with V7, and would likely prefer webOS, but that's just me. IMHO it's down to a lot of subjective decisions we can each make on a choice between the two OLEDs or maybe some other LED. Since I have my A1E, it's paid-for, and I've lived with it for 2 weeks -- it's my favorite, I'm glad I made the decision I did, and I'm able to move on from some of the discussion detail. Enjoy whatever works best for you. I am!
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post #3434 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 06:39 AM
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A pro want to watch 4K DCI on OLED, they're not going to an LG
A Pro is going to the Panasonic EZ1000. It lacks Dolby Vision, but a pro wouldn't care, but it has a 17x17x17 CMS inside, which would matter. The Sony is a fantastic consumer display, but the lack of an accessible CMS makes it not ideal as a pro display.

You can also find DCI and AdobeRGB color space options in JVC projectors, can't recall what else also supports them, but they're not incredibly uncommon in the high-end home space.
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post #3435 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post
A Pro is going to the Panasonic EZ1000. It lacks Dolby Vision, but a pro wouldn't care, but it has a 17x17x17 CMS inside, which would matter. The Sony is a fantastic consumer display, but the lack of an accessible CMS makes it not ideal as a pro display.

You can also find DCI and AdobeRGB color space options in JVC projectors, can't recall what else also supports them, but they're not incredibly uncommon in the high-end home space.
Yes the Panasonic is very appealing with 17 x 17 x17 LUT, however it is not available in United States ...

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post #3436 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
I decided to use DCI for my OPPO 203 and watching Hunger Games Mockingjay 1 4K disc now.. I'm going to keep it instead of the default bt2020. I'd be interested in other's thoughts on this config.
Quick Measurement Result: Using Auto for colorspace, HDR10 color checker has an average dE2000 error of 2.9 and a max of 7.5. Moving that to DCI changes it to an average of 4.0 and Max of 9.0.

UHD Discs use a Rec.2020 container and place the DCI points inside of there, so they are future proof for displays that can do the full Rec.2020 gamut. Forcing the Sony into DCI mode looks to cause worse color accuracy with this method than by leaving it on Auto.
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post #3437 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by eganz1 View Post
Yes the Panasonic is very appealing with 17 x 17 x17 LUT, however it is not available in United States ...
It's not available to consumers in the USA. If you're a professional at a movie studio or TV production, I imagine you can get someone at Panasonic to help you out.
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post #3438 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:16 AM
 
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I want to believe the A1 is the perfect TV, but where's your numbers / facts / evidence? Can you quantify its superiority over other OLEDs?
It's not the perfect display, but probably the 3rd best display overall for 2017 and the second if just counting OLEDs. They still suffer from blue snow, lack of proper HDR, excessive price above 65", lack of shadow detail, banding, uniformity and vignetting on certain panels. Burn in, while rare is also more of a concern with the brighter HDR highlights. They still are the best choice if you need viewing angles and do mostly dark room viewing, but there are much better all around displays than the A1E.
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post #3439 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post
Quick Measurement Result: Using Auto for colorspace, HDR10 color checker has an average dE2000 error of 2.9 and a max of 7.5. Moving that to DCI changes it to an average of 4.0 and Max of 9.0.

UHD Discs use a Rec.2020 container and place the DCI points inside of there, so they are future proof for displays that can do the full Rec.2020 gamut. Forcing the Sony into DCI mode looks to cause worse color accuracy with this method than by leaving it on Auto.
What are you doing confusing people with objective measurements? Sheeze...

All kidding aside, I'm somewhat obsessed about how a CIE 31 white point doesn't look white on an LG OLED. Are you using an alternate white point?
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post #3440 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
It's not the perfect display, but probably the 3rd best display overall for 2017 and the second if just counting OLEDs. They still suffer from blue snow, lack of proper HDR, excessive price above 65", lack of shadow detail, banding, uniformity and vignetting on certain panels. Burn in, while rare is also more of a concern with the brighter HDR highlights. They still are the best choice if you need viewing angles and do mostly dark room viewing, but there are much better all around displays than the A1E.


It's not a perfect display
But no blue snow
Hdr is amazing
Uniformity is fine in content
No vignetting
No burn in

Yes it's expensive
And this is the best display from my viewing of all competition this year


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post #3441 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:22 AM
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What are you doing confusing people with objective measurements? Sheeze...

All kidding aside, I'm somewhat obsessed about how a CIE 31 white point doesn't look white on an LG OLED. Are you using an alternate white point?
I'm using D65 since it's the white point for Rec.2020.

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post #3442 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Dhalmo View Post
Does anyone know how to configure the A1E install of Kodi to stream from LAN a 1:1 Blu-ray rip without any buffering or stutter. I know it's not a bandwidth issue as I'm using cat 6 cable and when I perform the same operation with my Nvidia Shield android TV I get perfect streaming to the A1E. It appears to be a memory management issue, not processing. I want the A1E to do the upscaling of 1080p , better than the Nvidia upscaling in my opinion.

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i think it's the application processor unfortunately. I get better performance with plex on my z9, but plex won't/can't bitstream dtshd over arc so that's a no go.

Since you already have a shield, setting the shield to output 1080p would let the a1 do the upscaling, but also let you enjoy the much better application performance of the shield.
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post #3443 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post
Quick Measurement Result: Using Auto for colorspace, HDR10 color checker has an average dE2000 error of 2.9 and a max of 7.5. Moving that to DCI changes it to an average of 4.0 and Max of 9.0.

UHD Discs use a Rec.2020 container and place the DCI points inside of there, so they are future proof for displays that can do the full Rec.2020 gamut. Forcing the Sony into DCI mode looks to cause worse color accuracy with this method than by leaving it on Auto.
interesting as there really shouldn't be a difference.
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
True but there is a point where you have to settle as everything made today has some degree of screen uniformity......
And just to re-enforce this, if you are OCD about banding, don't waste your time getting any OLED since all sets have banding but, in my opinion, and I've see a lot of sets both Sony and LG, this year it's so faint that you really need to go looking for it to see it on most sets with actual content. There are still sets out there that have unacceptable banding as in previous years, but this year, they are far fewer, and there has been an improvement in this area.

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post #3445 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 07:38 AM
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interesting as there really shouldn't be a difference.
Yeah, there shouldn't be, but it's colors near the edges of the DCI Gamut that are coming in under-saturated when using DCI vs. Auto. Colors closer to white on the CIE chart are more accurate, but you're still better off using Auto instead of DCI in the name of color accuracy and saturation.
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Originally Posted by assplats View Post
Is it possible that the 65" performs a little different than the 55"? I suppose with the same processing, that would mean the 65" LG's would be even brighter if the 65" Sony was brighter than the 55" for some reason. I just wonder if there is some variation. Rtings tested the 55", and the people you're talking to might have the 65".
Please don't go making this a huge issue because it's not, but I've measured both and the 55's are slightly brighter than the 65's but not enough to really see or care about. My guess that it's related to the set's power supply.
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post #3447 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post
A Pro is going to the Panasonic EZ1000. It lacks Dolby Vision, but a pro wouldn't care, but it has a 17x17x17 CMS inside, which would matter. The Sony is a fantastic consumer display, but the lack of an accessible CMS makes it not ideal as a pro display.

You can also find DCI and AdobeRGB color space options in JVC projectors, can't recall what else also supports them, but they're not incredibly uncommon in the high-end home space.
Chris, interesting comment and I agree, but I just want to say that "on most" A1's that I've seen, once calibrated, the CMS is really good and "in most cases" as good as I can calibrate on the LG with the CMS controls. On my A1, the Calman Colorchecker shows a deltaE of 1 with the skin tone template addition. Now, I agree the LG CMS controls aren't the best and you would be able to tweak the outliers on the A1 if it had CMS controls but for a Retail set, as you said, it's pretty good.
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post #3448 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
From my understanding the full rec.2020 gamut can be delivered through DCI-P3 higher color gamut?

Could DCI have an impact on HDR brightness highlights? It looks like it to me, I would encourage content viewing in this config for others to determine.

The only reason why I tried DCI for the 203 because I read somewhere that a calibrator set his A1 to this.. I can't remember where I saw it.
No, DCI gamut is much smaller than the Rec.2020 gamut. UHD Blu-ray puts content using the DCI gamut inside of a Rec.2020 container. This way when a Rec.2020 display is available, DCI content will display correctly and won't require a separate color mode. Some earlier displays didn't display this correctly, but they've all been updated with new firmware to show Rec.2020 with DCI content correctly. CalMAN does DCI measurements inside of a Rec.2020 container, since that's what UHD content is using.

Looking at the Color Checker, the luminance values for the two modes (DCI vs. Auto) are similar, except DCI Red is a good 25% higher in Auto mode than in HDR. Here you can see the comparisons and how DCI is under-saturated.

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post #3449 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Please don't go making this a huge issue because it's not, but I've measured both and the 55's are slightly brighter than the 65's but not enough to really see or care about. My guess that it's related to the set's power supply.
Hey John, I'm definitely not trying to make a big deal out of it. Just trying to reason why people might be having different experiences. I already own the TV and like it ;-). But, I imagine you're probably asking anyone reading what you said to not exaggerate your findings or make a big deal out of them.

With that said... I'm going to throw out my 65" and buy 4 55" A1E's and then tile them to get that humongous amount of extra brightness!!!
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post #3450 of 8123 Old 05-12-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post
No, DCI gamut is much smaller than the Rec.2020 gamut. UHD Blu-ray puts content using the DCI gamut inside of a Rec.2020 container. This way when a Rec.2020 display is available, DCI content will display correctly and won't require a separate color mode. Some earlier displays didn't display this correctly, but they've all been updated with new firmware to show Rec.2020 with DCI content correctly. CalMAN does DCI measurements inside of a Rec.2020 container, since that's what UHD content is using.

Looking at the Color Checker, the luminance values for the two modes (DCI vs. Auto) are similar, except DCI Red is a good 25% higher in Auto mode than in HDR. Here you can see the comparisons and how DCI is under-saturated.

^^^
Can't argue with the proof! Thanks Chris

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