Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 159 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4741 of 8172 Old 06-09-2017, 03:18 PM
 
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Here's my opinion on my current paradox opine...

I received Despicable Me 1 today in the mail.. while Despicable Me 2 (the later made film) looks extremely exceptional in Dolby Vision from the disc..

Despicable Me 1 on the W7 not only look exactly like the standard performance of the A1E.. but the A1E can display the SDR BD version with ACE and XDE both on HIGH and give this same Despicable Me 1 DV imaging performance I see on the W7..

The 2nd movie stands on its own with DV PQ.. this first movie is a disc mastering regrade using a lab counterpart processing doing what Sony's ACE/XDE and LG's HDR Effect Mode does with SDR BD imaging..

I would only trust recent films processed with Dolby Vision, this first movie in my opinion is only delivering the motion stability and color punch as seen everyday with the A1E X1e processing and dynamic object processing.

Despicable Me 2 is the definitive show off disc in DV for any current capable LG OLED owner.
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post #4742 of 8172 Old 06-09-2017, 03:49 PM
 
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In my current opinion, hacking settings:

A1E:
Cinema Pro, Expert Color 1, ACE and XDR both on HIGH, Brightness on 26 contrast 90 to offset ACE, Black Level up to 58 to offset XDR, Reality Creation on 50...

Oppo to upscale BD to 4K...

SDR Blu-ray disc and 1080p/4K content from Netflix, VUDU, Amazon looks like Dolby Vision content on the A1.
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post #4743 of 8172 Old 06-09-2017, 05:46 PM
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So we have to apologize to Al for stating that HDR10 content looks just as good as Dolby Vision Content on the LG.
Here is why he is seeing this -> Sony A1E Calibration Thread
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post #4744 of 8172 Old 06-09-2017, 06:02 PM
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Here's the direct link to the post -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post53545289

Al, this speaks directly to our prior exchange regarding ACE, and the TV adjusting presentation to the best of its abilities. The Sony approach here is quite novel and as any X1E powered TV owner will agree, quite effective.

Now the only question is to what degree the dynamic HDR is user controlled, and which, if any, settings control it.
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post #4745 of 8172 Old 06-09-2017, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
Here's the direct link to the post -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post53545289

Al, this speaks directly to our prior exchange regarding ACE, and the TV adjusting presentation to the best of its abilities. The Sony approach here is quite novel and as any X1E powered TV owner will agree, quite effective.

Now the only question is to what degree the dynamic HDR is user controlled, and which, if any, settings control it.
Its the first time I've seen settings in TVs that can process a image past just a picture mode or color warmth. I'm watching the NBA Finals coverage on DirecTV Now on the Roku Ultra on the W7 in HDR Effect picture mode.. It's some really interesting tech at work.

I'm less videophile in 2017 and more technologist..
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post #4746 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
Makes sense. I still have my Samsung PN64F8500 plasma for watching sports as the motion is perfect. One of LG's only weakness that the A1E has improved. I'm on the fence myself between the A1E, 79D and LG G6P as a replacement for my F8500 and don't know if I can live without 3D.
If yhou can not live without 3D you should probably bust a move before its to late.....
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post #4747 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 10:20 AM
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When is this Dolby vision update supposed to come?

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post #4748 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 10:25 AM
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^^^When all the committee members can agree on the standard!
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post #4749 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 10:37 AM
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July for X1 Extreme Chipset Sonys
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post #4750 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 10:42 AM
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Also, as an aside...I have an A1E and an LG C7 on display here (sony on top, LG on the bottom) and was curious about DV Vudu Titles vs HDR10 Disc titles. I had the X800 Sony playing thru the Sony A1E (65") and the C7 playing Vudu content. I tested 3 titles. Unforgiven, Arrival and Jack Reacher 2. I synced the disc and let them play. Had them both in Cinema Home presets but didn't do anything serious to the TV's mostly for out of the box "image for image". This was no scientific but was still enlightening. I could discern no difference in DV encoding vs HDR10 disc based. I was primarily looking at color and contrast and the Sony seemed a tad darker but better at shadow delineation and the LG was good but could get flat sometimes. I concur with X1 and how it handles HDR and can say that i see no "wow" DV stuff popping out as of yet. I also hooked up the player thru a Marantz 5011 and have both hooked up to the receiver showing Planet Earth II and the Sony seems to render shadow detail better creating a more 3D look that initially looks darker but actually looks more realistic. Again, not scientific but enlightening.
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post #4751 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by amblinfan View Post
July for X1 Extreme Chipset Sonys
What about the X800 player?

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post #4752 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 12:11 PM
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As far as I know neither player is going to do it. They only mentioned X1 Extreme Processor TV's and they said the Players can't do it. Not sure.
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post #4753 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
There's currently some paradoxes.. B7 has all HDR enabled apps out the box.. A1 only supports HDR10 and HLG at this time with DV coming rumored to be soon.

But in picture.. you'll read here guys say "they are the same in picture" and even Vincent say "similar picture" and that's a curved statement I'm not fully getting in my observation.. the 2017 LG looks great if you want to be satisfied you're getting a reference "purist" image.. but I don't care what anyone say about this LG purist image.. if you look at this video from Vincent and see the imaging on the A1E with general playback (though the A1 here is adjusted to be considered calibrated), the 2017 LG OLED, while looking great, does NOT look exactly like the screens behind Vincent in this video.. I personally can see this difference in image processing, I'm guessing most can't, but the pitch, color handling, and representation of overall fidelity is something different with the "Sony Color"... its a choice of loving what it does, or dealing with the war of finding the magic settings on LG:
Al, since Vincent compares calibrated pictures, he'll never see what you see when you start activating all the other advanced & dynamic controls. It's just not how Vincent and many of us view our TVs. Yes, we're more purists than you are.

Further, good luck in trying to really ascertain assessments on comparative image quality from a YouTube video when the variables are a) Youtube itself b) the camera producing the image c) how the camera producing the image was adjusted and d) the accuracy of the monitor you're viewing the images on. I'm sure there are more than I listed here.

IOW, the color in person could be actually be, at the worst, the opposite of what you 'think' the video is showing and, at the best, still not an accurate representation, especially when all the reviews (and Vincent) indicate, the difference are subtle.
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post #4754 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
This interview with Sony's product manager has a ton of great info on the Sony picture processing as well. They are talking about the z9d but substantially all of the conversation is relevant for all TV w/ X1 Extreme chips in them -> https://twit.tv/shows/home-theater-geeks/episodes/341
I've spoken to Phil several times at the VE shootouts and he's really a great guy and very knowledgeable. With that said, remember he is also the consummate salesman.
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post #4755 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
In my current opinion, hacking settings:

A1E:
Cinema Pro, Expert Color 1, ACE and XDR both on HIGH, Brightness on 26 contrast 90 to offset ACE, Black Level up to 58 to offset XDR, Reality Creation on 50...

Oppo to upscale BD to 4K...

SDR Blu-ray disc and 1080p/4K content from Netflix, VUDU, Amazon looks like Dolby Vision content on the A1.
Do you feel that these are the best settings for everytime of content of the A1E including 4k HDR blu rays?
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post #4756 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 01:54 PM
 
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Do you feel that these are the best settings for everytime of content of the A1E including 4k HDR blu rays?
Its just a reference to what settings I feel makes SDR Blu-rays, Netflix, and VUDU look like Dolby Vision imaging.. HDR10 from 4K discs for the most part takes care of itself and the extended settings are not necessary but can be used to preference...

For me, the Despicable Me 1 Blu-ray with those settings on the A1 looks like the Dolby Vision 4K disc on the W7..

The settings in the A1E are not too extensive so an individual finding what works best for them, even on a movie-to-movie basis is really easy to adjust in settings..
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post #4757 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 02:03 PM
 
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Al, since Vincent compares calibrated pictures, he'll never see what you see when you start activating all the other advanced & dynamic controls. It's just not how Vincent and many of us view our TVs. Yes, we're more purists than you are.
For Sony to release a OLED product after all these years of LG OLEDs being in the market to not offer anything "more" would be a waste of anyone's time.

For anyone to buy a Sony A1E and ignore the features that make it special, tune it down to make it do what those years of LG OLEDs did/do.. is even a bigger waste of money and time.
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post #4758 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
Its just a reference to what settings I feel makes SDR Blu-rays, Netflix, and VUDU look like Dolby Vision imaging.. HDR10 from 4K discs for the most part takes care of itself and the extended settings are not necessary but can be used to preference...

For me, the Despicable Me 1 Blu-ray with those settings on the A1 looks like the Dolby Vision 4K disc on the W7..

The settings in the A1E are not too extensive so an individual finding what works best for them, even on a movie-to-movie basis is really easy to adjust in settings..
Okay great! Thanks for sharing
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post #4759 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 03:01 PM
 
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For educational reference to readers: Here is what you pay for when you purchase an A1E or other X1E TVs, when utilizing the "settings" aka the Magic Dust.

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Here's more explanation of the X1E chip.. For those with sophisticated understanding of OLED TVs, having this chip capability in an OLED is a very big deal... anyone that can't understand what the A1E is as a product, or looking to just get out of it the basic capabilities of the OEM LG provided display shouldn't buy an A1E:


Not using the X1E chip processing as designed, it's cheaper to buy a 2016 LG OLED.
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post #4761 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 07:39 PM
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One Sony X1 extreme issue that remains unresolved, apparently , is 24fps source material displayed at 60hz

Has any firmware fix been disseminated by Sony yet?

In what viewing situations would this issue be evident?
Would this arise watching A movie via cable/satellite source?

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post #4762 of 8172 Old 06-10-2017, 09:52 PM
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No I will try that thanks. And yes motion. It sucked on the g6p
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post #4763 of 8172 Old 06-11-2017, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post
One Sony X1 extreme issue that remains unresolved, apparently , is 24fps source material displayed at 60hz

Has any firmware fix been disseminated by Sony yet?

In what viewing situations would this issue be evident?
Would this arise watching A movie via cable/satellite source?
This is only the case when streaming with the internal netflix app. 24p input via hdmi is fine.
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post #4764 of 8172 Old 06-11-2017, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
For Sony to release a OLED product after all these years of LG OLEDs being in the market to not offer anything "more" would be a waste of anyone's time.

For anyone to buy a Sony A1E and ignore the features that make it special, tune it down to make it do what those years of LG OLEDs did/do.. is even a bigger waste of money and time.
There's still things the Sony(based on reviews and thoughts from owners) offers without 'magic dust' and that is how it handles all content. And watch Vincents comparison videos for example when The Revenant while calibrated looked cleaner on the A1 than the C7 at one part of the movie. So my decision is gonna be more based on stuff like that because for me that is the main reason for upgrading this year.
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post #4765 of 8172 Old 06-11-2017, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
For educational reference to readers: Here is what you pay for when you purchase an A1E or other X1E TVs, when utilizing the "settings" aka the Magic Dust.
Al, you seem to be impressed with marketing speak, and I'm not saying the claims aren't true to varying degrees (I've rarely seen any company's marketing claims that, on the surface, weren't impressive), but I don't think I'd use them to make my case. Marketing speak makes any product sound like it can part the red seas.

At any rate, the other way to look at 'Magic Dust' is, the more dust you sprinkle on your picture, the further you move away from accuracy.

Unlike you, I don't believe all calibrated pictures look the same. True, they will tend to make wildly divergent, out-of-the-box pictures, far more equal, but there will still be differences. It's these differences that may drive some toward display A vs display B.

So for those that prefer accuracy, if it turns out the calibrated pictures are so close that it's really tough to tell them apart, the decision might then revert to style, OS, current HDR capabilities, speaker proficiency, number of inputs and their bandwidth and, heaven forbid, price. Of course there are many other factors that might influence a purchase.

At this point I'm still really up in the air as to which 77" OLED to take home, but rest assured marketing hype will play a zero role in that decision.
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post #4766 of 8172 Old 06-11-2017, 07:17 AM
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Since the image of the A1e is a lot darker and seems cropped to you vs the G6...as well as loss of 3D.. Why are you staying with the A1E?
motion and pic way better so far in cable. HDR really dark but picture detail better. can't figure out how to stop the cropping. and y its so dark vivid is better but I shouldn't have to watch the movie in vivid HDR is no fun right now
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Have you set your HDMI signal to "Enhanced" on the A1E?
yes I followed your steps no change
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post #4768 of 8172 Old 06-11-2017, 07:21 AM
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As far as the cropping is concerned, it's probably something like the orbiter being engaged on the Sony and not on the LG. There's no reason, with proper settings, that one crops and the other doesn't.
how do u think I fix it
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post #4769 of 8172 Old 06-11-2017, 07:25 AM
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This is only the case when streaming with the internal netflix app. 24p input via hdmi is fine.
Isn't it also a problem when streaming 24p sources from a Roku or similar? That's what I've been told by others around here. For those of us serving BD rips with Plex, this is a significant consideration.
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post #4770 of 8172 Old 06-11-2017, 07:43 AM
 
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Al, you seem to be impressed with marketing speak, and I'm not saying the claims aren't true to varying degrees (I've rarely seen any company's marketing claims that, on the surface, weren't impressive), but I don't think I'd use them to make my case. Marketing speak makes any product sound like it can part the red seas.

At any rate, the other way to look at 'Magic Dust' is, the more dust you sprinkle on your picture, the further you move away from accuracy.

Unlike you, I don't believe all calibrated pictures look the same. True, they will tend to make wildly divergent, out-of-the-box pictures, far more equal, but there will still be differences. It's these differences that may drive some toward display A vs display B.

So for those that prefer accuracy, if it turns out the calibrated pictures are so close that it's really tough to tell them apart, the decision might then revert to style, OS, current HDR capabilities, speaker proficiency, number of inputs and their bandwidth and, heaven forbid, price. Of course there are many other factors that might influence a purchase.

At this point I'm still really up in the air as to which 77" OLED to take home, but rest assured marketing hype will play a zero role in that decision.
The points you keep making was expressed 2 months ago and is obvious to everyone reading here.. My points in having the new DV discs as comparisons, what the A1E does and how it does it to match that performance..

This is a progressive conversation, no one cares what it takes for another guy to open his wallet.
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