Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 168 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5011 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 11:51 AM
 
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Source video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNKcTcf5JRQ  at 1:50
The left side is what the W7 looks like to me, and right being the difference I see with the A1.
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post #5012 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 11:54 AM
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I've read some comments about the the remote needing to be pointed directly at the center of the Sony TV to get it to work. I'm a bit worried about that because I plan on mounting my tv above my fireplace/mantle.

I use a harmony elite and the IR blasters are setup to the left and about 5 feet below where the tv would be mounted. Do you think I'll have any problems with this setup? I currently have a ef9500 mounted this way and everything works fine. I'm hoping the issue people are describing are more of a problem with the remote then IR receiver on the TV its self.

I also noticed the tv has an IR blaster connection. Would that allow me to plug in an IR reciever to improve the TVs ability to receive signals? TIA


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post #5013 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 12:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zeuswsu View Post
I've read some comments about the the remote needing to be pointed directly at the center of the Sony TV to get it to work. I'm a bit worried about that because I plan on mounting my tv above my fireplace/mantle.

I use a harmony elite and the IR blasters are setup to the left and about 5 feet below where the tv would be mounted. Do you think I'll have any problems with this setup? I currently have a ef9500 mounted this way and everything works fine. I'm hoping the issue people are describing are more of a problem with the remote then IR receiver on the TV its self.

I also noticed the tv has an IR blaster connection. Would that allow me to plug in an IR reciever to improve the TVs ability to receive signals? TIA


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Here's an owner's response with a Harmony
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post #5014 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 12:02 PM
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Heckling is an issue in this thread..
Please stop pointing fingers at folks. EVERYONE has contributed to issues in this thread, including yourself.

Mark is correct, we need to get back to the reason for this thread.
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post #5015 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 12:05 PM
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Could I run the ir blaster out of the a1 and sit it next to my harmony hub and then would my harmony be able to control it? Currently I have my remote set for ir only for just the TV as that's all that will reach it.

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post #5016 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post


Thanks, unfortunately that won't work for me since my my AV cabinet where my IR sensors are located is about 7 or 8 feet away from where the tv will be mounted above he fireplace. You would see a long wire going across the room. Sounds like it might be a legitimate problem for me since that post makes it sound like the blaster needed to be move in line of sight to work.


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post #5017 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ironsurvivor View Post
Could I run the ir blaster out of the a1 and sit it next to my harmony hub and then would my harmony be able to control it? Currently I have my remote set for ir only for just the TV as that's all that will reach it.
I haven't tested it, but it sounds like the A1E can forward IR transmissions it receives and send them out through its connected IR blasters. Unfortunately that doesn't help for what you're trying to do, i.e., make it receive IR transmissions through the rear/connected IR wire.

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Originally Posted by zeuswsu View Post
Thanks, unfortunately that won't work for me since my my AV cabinet where my IR sensors are located is about 7 or 8 feet away from where the tv will be mounted above he fireplace. You would see a long wire going across the room. Sounds like it might be a legitimate problem for me since that post makes it sound like the blaster needed to be move in line of sight to work.
My A1E is on the stand on a TV console. I previously had the Harmony hub (blaster) sitting on the console and just to the left edge of the TV. This was not good enough to activate the A1E. I found I had to run an IR blaster (I also have a separate IR blaster setup, complicated I know) over to just in front of the Sony logo.

I did not try moving the Harmony hub in front of the Sony logo because then it would be blocking too much of the TV at that position. It might just work for you and I'm guessing it would, because my IR blaster is sitting in front of the Sony logo not on top of it.

Realistically, the A1E remote sensitivity is a minor issue. I have just grown accustomed to not carefully pointing my Harmony remote forward and allowing my separate IR blaster setup to always pick it up and was trying to fine tune things. IMO this should not be a major consideration or worry for you.
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post #5018 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by zeuswsu View Post
I've read some comments about the the remote needing to be pointed directly at the center of the Sony TV to get it to work. I'm a bit worried about that because I plan on mounting my tv above my fireplace/mantle.

I use a harmony elite and the IR blasters are setup to the left and about 5 feet below where the tv would be mounted. Do you think I'll have any problems with this setup? I currently have a ef9500 mounted this way and everything works fine. I'm hoping the issue people are describing are more of a problem with the remote then IR receiver on the TV its self.

I also noticed the tv has an IR blaster connection. Would that allow me to plug in an IR reciever to improve the TVs ability to receive signals? TIA


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How nice we're back on-topic.

I have my A1E mounted above my fireplace (see photo in my early A1E long review end of April timeframe), AND I have a Harmony Elite with the hub that sits 3'+ below and to the left of the TV under the top shelf of an open-face shelving unit. I have no issues. My POV:

Besides the esthetics of the Sony Remote (IMHO it's just cheap feeling and looking, and not universal for a TV at this price point), the real issue for me is compared to other devices I own, there seems to be a rather narrow target on then A1E you have to hit with the IR. That area is around the small status light on the center bottom edge of the A1E. You could exacerbate that potential concern if you obstruct that area with perhaps a sound bar, speaker, or by simply mounting it too low against the mantel.

If you find that photo of my setup, you'll see my seating areas are in front of the TV with audio components and my Harmony Hub to the far left, horizontal with the A1E. I did initially have some very intermittent issues with the Harmony Hub and/or A1E (not other devices within that open shelving unit on same or lower shelf), but I tried two things that worked wonders for me:
  • I moved the hub slightly in my setup so that it had more of an opportunity to bounce its IR signal off my back wall and then towards the A1E. Where I had the hub originally, it "pointed" down a long hallway with I suspect minimal opportunity to "bounce" the signal off something that could get back to the TV. Shifting the hub 1.5' on the same shelf resolved nearly all my issues.
  • On the physical Harmony Elite Remote, once you get it programmed, you can then go into its own settings to tell the Harmony Hub by device to use the Hub, its IR Blasters, or just the Remote itself (ignoring the Hub). In my case, since I hold the remote from the seating areas where it points in the general area of my TV, the hub and other components to the side, changing the Harmony so my A1E is only controlled by my remote and everything else by the hub, for whatever reason removed that last rare bit of annoyance. I've not had my A1E miss it's signal since, as it's getting its IR signal from the Harmony Remote, while the remote also sends the command to the Hub to control everything else.
My point being, as long as you don't obstruct the IR area on the A1E, you have a couple more IR options to explore should you need to once you have your A1E installed.

I have not used the physical IR blasters, so can't comment on that other than be sure you do a lot of searches in the Remotes Forum for possible alternatives.

Good luck.
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Last edited by BertL; 06-18-2017 at 02:31 PM.
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post #5019 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
There is nothing special about Sony's processsing and it does nothing when it comes to screen uniformity. I sent my first 55A1E back because the left side of the screen was redder than the rest. I've seen the same thing on other A1Es including those in the owners thread. The second 55A1E I got was bluer on the left side. My 65C7 is the same way. My 65A1E and 55C7 are damn near perfect in uniformity.
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The 55A1E I sent back had Vignetting. I have yet to look for it on my new one. Ditto for my 65. I try not to report that particular item because I.... well know better
I was trying to refrain from posting in these owner threads but I'm forced to comment when there is so much misinformation being posted. I agree with D-Nice - there is zero difference in uniformity between any of the models. This is based on viewing many of them in person under controlled lighting. There are slight differences between 55" and 65" but neither size has consistently good uniformity. It's all random luck regardless of manufacturer because they all get their panels from the same source - LG Display. There is no Sony magic here. If you watch and time the compensation cycles, you will see they are exactly the same. Sony delays the compensation for 4 hours after you turn off the set to reduce risk of it being interrupted. Neither approach improves uniformity significantly after the first couple runs.

The fact that you can get a 65" LG for close to what a 55" Sony costs does skew the results as to the number of owners complaining.

FWIW, the 55A1E I recently viewed had some of the worst uniformity I've seen - even by 2016 standards. It had tinted whites, vertical banding, and vignetting similar to what D-Nice reported on his first 55A1E above.

Pictures posted over in the B7/C7 owner thread.

From a picture quality perspective, the main reasons to buy the Sony over the LG are the slightly improved motion resolution (with BFI enabled) or the huge improvement in quality watching highly compressed streaming/cable due to the "Smooth Gradation" feature. I would gladly pay up to $1000 for an external video processor that offered something as good as SG.

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OLEDs are not ready for prime time for some people.... especially for those who care about screen uniformity. Just because it is acceptable to you does not make their opinion irrelevant.
+1

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post #5020 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I was trying to refrain from posting in these owner threads but I'm forced to comment when there is so much misinformation being posted. I agree with D-Nice - there is zero difference in uniformity between any of the models. This is based on viewing many of them in person under controlled lighting. There are slight differences between 55" and 65" but neither size has consistently good uniformity. It's all random luck regardless of manufacturer because they all get their panels from the same source - LG Display. There is no Sony magic here. If you watch and time the compensation cycles, you will see they are exactly the same. Sony delays the compensation for 4 hours after you turn off the set to reduce risk of it being interrupted. Neither approach improves uniformity significantly after the first couple runs.

The fact that you can get a 65" LG for close to what a 55" Sony costs does skew the results as to the number of owners complaining.

FWIW, the 55A1E I recently viewed had some of the worst uniformity I've seen - even by 2016 standards. It had tinted whites, vertical banding, and vignetting similar to what D-Nice reported on his first 55A1E above.

Pictures posted over in the B7/C7 owner thread.

From a picture quality perspective, the main reasons to buy the Sony over the LG are the slightly improved motion resolution (with BFI enabled) or the huge improvement in quality watching highly compressed streaming/cable due to the "Smooth Gradation" feature. I would gladly pay up to $1000 for an external video processor that offered something as good as SG.



+1
I still plan to wait it out a while.

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post #5021 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
Code:
Source video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNKcTcf5JRQ  at 1:50
The left side is what the W7 looks like to me, and right being the difference I see with the A1.
Isn't there a setting on the LG, contrast enhance or something, that allows it to more closely match the Sony? I thought I saw something somewhere? Maybe on hdtvtest?

edit: Dynamic Contrast

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post #5022 of 8122 Old 06-18-2017, 08:02 PM
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Thanks BertL, I forgot that you could use the IR sensor in the remote if the IR blasters aren't able to send a signal to the TV. In fact, that might be how I'm controlling my tv now without even realizing it.


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post #5023 of 8122 Old 06-19-2017, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therberg View Post
Just talked to the buyer for a local AV store, if what was told to him about the pricing on the 77" A1E is correct, it is going to be higher than anticipated.
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
First rumors are 15K retail, will be more like 20K-25K I bet.
Looks like what I heard several months ago about the retail price of the 77" A1E was fairly accurate.
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I was trying to refrain from posting in these owner threads but I'm forced to comment when there is so much misinformation being posted. I agree with D-Nice - there is zero difference in uniformity between any of the models. This is based on viewing many of them in person under controlled lighting. There are slight differences between 55" and 65" but neither size has consistently good uniformity. It's all random luck regardless of manufacturer because they all get their panels from the same source - LG Display. There is no Sony magic here. If you watch and time the compensation cycles, you will see they are exactly the same. Sony delays the compensation for 4 hours after you turn off the set to reduce risk of it being interrupted. Neither approach improves uniformity significantly after the first couple runs.

The fact that you can get a 65" LG for close to what a 55" Sony costs does skew the results as to the number of owners complaining.

FWIW, the 55A1E I recently viewed had some of the worst uniformity I've seen - even by 2016 standards. It had tinted whites, vertical banding, and vignetting similar to what D-Nice reported on his first 55A1E above.

Pictures posted over in the B7/C7 owner thread.

From a picture quality perspective, the main reasons to buy the Sony over the LG are the slightly improved motion resolution (with BFI enabled) or the huge improvement in quality watching highly compressed streaming/cable due to the "Smooth Gradation" feature. I would gladly pay up to $1000 for an external video processor that offered something as good as SG.



+1
You are entitled to your opinion, and I mean no disrespect, but except for the last part of your comment, your statements are really not accurate and they tend to unintentionally mislead. So not to go into all of the discussion that we did already, the simple fact is this: Both Sony and LG patent most of their picture processing algorithms and processes. You can easily look them up. Because of this, they can't possibly be using the same algorithms to accomplish the same functions such as screen compensation, etc.. Also there may be some differences because of build quality since the sets are built in different factories and no one can deny that the build quality on the Sony is very good. This is why we see subtle nuances between the sets using the same panels. I don't want to get into how many sets we have all seen, but I can tell you that I've see "a lot" of sets this model year that have been properly set up and compensation cycles done as needed and at the end of the day, I've never seen an A1 with vignetting, and the A1s, "overall" are "slightly" more uniform than the LG's because of this lack of vignetting. This doesn't mean that there hasn't been a "bad" A1 or one with vignetting, or that the LGs are no good or that the A1 is worth the $1K more than the LG. Even with the uniformity issues on both sets, for almost all content, for most sets, the uniformity issues can't be seen with real content BUT for both sets, with the right content, at the just the right luminance and gray scale, when you are looking for it, you can see these uniformities which is a fact of life with these OLEDs right now. This whole discussion started in part because there haven't been a lot of reports of vignetting on the Sony vs the LG and we were trying to "speculate" what could be the difference since they both use the same panels. I think we have beaten this topic to death, you can't go wrong with either set, and need to discuss other things

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post #5025 of 8122 Old 06-19-2017, 07:21 AM
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Does the Dynamic Contrast setting change the tone-mapping?

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Does the Dynamic Contrast setting change the tone-mapping?
Yes. On the A1 it's called ACE, Advanced Contrast Enhancer.
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Looks like what I heard several months ago about the retail price of the 77" A1E was fairly accurate.
What can I say LOL, sometime you just have to be real and not believe rumor's This is the reason we require no deposits on pre-orders.....because who knows what may change the day of release or before........
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post #5028 of 8122 Old 06-19-2017, 10:11 AM
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Apologies if this has been answered already (wading through this thread is... interesting, lol) but did the A1E get its Dolby Vision update yet? My B7 is going back and I'm pondering maybe giving the Sony a try to see if the grass is greener.

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Apologies if this has been answered already (wading through this thread is... interesting, lol) but did the A1E get its Dolby Vision update yet? My B7 is going back and I'm pondering maybe giving the Sony a try to see if the grass is greener.
No - rumored for some time in July.

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post #5030 of 8122 Old 06-19-2017, 01:11 PM
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[QUOTE=Wizziwig;53728745]I was trying to refrain from posting in these owner threads but I'm forced to comment when there is so much misinformation being posted. I agree with D-Nice - there is zero difference in uniformity between any of the models. This is based on viewing many of them in person under controlled lighting. There are slight differences between 55" and 65" but neither size has consistently good uniformity. It's all random luck regardless of manufacturer because they all get their panels from the same source - LG Display. There is no Sony magic here. If you watch and time the compensation cycles, you will see they are exactly the same. Sony delays the compensation for 4 hours after you turn off the set to reduce risk of it being interrupted. Neither approach improves uniformity significantly after the first couple runs.

The fact that you can get a 65" LG for close to what a 55" Sony costs does skew the results as to the number of owners complaining.

FWIW, the 55A1E I recently viewed had some of the worst uniformity I've seen - even by 2016 standards. It had tinted whites, vertical banding, and vignetting similar to what D-Nice reported

Unfortunately the white oled manufactured by LG regardless which company sells the white oled. The uniformity is a mess on these TVs.
Currently no other tech "LED" can match it.
So It comes down to processing which only Sony and Panasonic have got right.
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post #5031 of 8122 Old 06-19-2017, 01:21 PM
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I really question if there's a significant difference (or any difference) between the LGs & Sonys in terms of uniformity. Some say yes and some say no. Unless we have a large number of both panels, checking for uniformity issues, I don't think we'll really know the answer to that.

Even looking at 10 of each may not tell you much.
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@Ken Ross : I am saying that an OLED is an OLED is an OLED. It is made by LG and the uniformity is in the eye of the beholder!
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post #5033 of 8122 Old 06-19-2017, 01:36 PM
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I really question if there's a significant difference (or any difference) between the LGs & Sonys in terms of uniformity. Some say yes and some say no. Unless we have a large number of both panels, checking for uniformity issues, I don't think we'll really know the answer to that.

Even looking at 10 of each may not tell you much.
So I guess we are never going to know then because we won't have a large enough sample size and we are never going to get data from the manufacturers so we should stop talking about screen uniformity and move on.

So I heard that the Sony has slightly better color volume measurements than the C7. I wonder if this is making the picture a little more "dynamic" on the Sony?
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post #5034 of 8122 Old 06-19-2017, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So I guess we are never going to know then because we won't have a large enough sample size and we are never going to get data from the manufacturers so we should stop talking about screen uniformity and move on.

So I heard that the Sony has slightly better color volume measurements than the C7. I wonder if this is making the picture a little more "dynamic" on the Sony?
I suspect it's making it 'hugely' more dynamic, no question.
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post #5035 of 8122 Old 06-19-2017, 08:44 PM
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Since talk about the slow UI performance seems to come and go I decided to put some tips in writing. Here is an article I wrote on how to improve UI performance on your TVs. Its things I have already mentioned plus some new ones. Seems to have helped my Sony quite a bit.

https://www.marketcast.co/blog-sonyb...rformance.html
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post #5036 of 8122 Old 06-20-2017, 05:12 AM
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post #5037 of 8122 Old 06-20-2017, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam355 View Post
Since talk about the slow UI performance seems to come and go I decided to put some tips in writing. Here is an article I wrote on how to improve UI performance on your TVs. Its things I have already mentioned plus some new ones. Seems to have helped my Sony quite a bit.

https://www.marketcast.co/blog-sonyb...rformance.html
Thank you!! Can't wait to check this out
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post #5038 of 8122 Old 06-20-2017, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam355 View Post
Since talk about the slow UI performance seems to come and go I decided to put some tips in writing. Here is an article I wrote on how to improve UI performance on your TVs. Its things I have already mentioned plus some new ones. Seems to have helped my Sony quite a bit.

https://www.marketcast.co/blog-sonyb...rformance.html
Kudos for posting that and hopefully it works for others. However with that said, that's a lot of steps to go through for something the consumer should not be forced to do to attain performance they have every right to expect without resorting to this.

The overwhelming majority of owners will never do this, let alone see this, and will have to put up with the Android OS.
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post #5039 of 8122 Old 06-20-2017, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Kudos for posting that and hopefully it works for others. However with that said, that's a lot of steps to go through for something the consumer should not be forced to do to attain performance they have every right to expect without resorting to this.

The overwhelming majority of owners will never do this, let alone see this, and will have to put up with the Android OS.
I've said this before but this is a Sony chipset problem and not an Android OS problem. The processor that MediaTek built for Sony TVs is very slow. They used processor cores typically used in $100 720p budget cell phones. Not high end 4k TVs. I even mention in the article that other Android TV devices like the Shield TV don't even need to bother with this stuff.

Even if my tips only help some select users instead of the general population its still worth it. Hopefully MediaTek provides a faster processor for Sony in the next round of TVs.

Last edited by adam355; 06-20-2017 at 08:00 AM.
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post #5040 of 8122 Old 06-20-2017, 02:46 PM
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Did Sony OLED improve on lifespan? Is 5 years about the max for an 8hr/day and by that time will be at around 50% luminance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED#Disadvantages

Upgrading from a Panasonic Plasma ST50 - which was about 5 years old, i still plan on using it - i would hate to think that the A1E would be almost useless at that point.

UPDATE: Nm - looks like LG increased lifespan to 100k hours ([email protected]/day)

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...ction=showfull

I guess the white oled is the key for this

Last edited by jerrolds; 06-20-2017 at 02:49 PM.
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