Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 260 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7771 of 8123 Old 03-18-2018, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post
I may be picking up the 65A1E sometime this week or next. Is the only way to see Dolby Vision on the sony's is thru its internal apps? Wasn' t sure if ill even use the tv apps when I get it. May change my mind.
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post #7772 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 05:05 AM
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Assuming I have one? Well, I can see you have a very big one, and I'm impressed.

I understand that DV works with streaming content. My point is that working with a disk source through HDMI is basic, and if it can't work that basic way, then it's vaporware. And Sony is dishonest for using DV vaporware as a marketing hook.

And so the answer is, nothing has changed, we're still waiting for DV to work as it's billed.
There is NOTHING simple about DV over HDMI. It is doing something that HDMI 2.0 doesn't support (dynamic metadata) and it seems what Dolby did to make it work was a hack (hence why AVRs and soundbars need to explicitly support passing it) and apparently also had bugs that caused black level problems in a few cases (which now needs the decoder patched on all the TVs). To make things even worse, they decided to make lots of different profiles that work different ways, and Sony got one no one else had used before, which made external devices not work with it yet (although the Apple TV 4k had a beta within a few days that fixed it).

DV has been handled very badly by Dolby so far. This does very much not appear to be Sony's fault. Sony should of course have tested with common external devices themselves earlier to discover the problem before releasing the firmware and being "surprised" it didn't work as they had expected. Supposedly Dolby had claimed all the external devices already supported the new profile when in fact nothing supported the new profile.

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post #7773 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post
I may be picking up the 65A1E sometime this week or next. Is the only way to see Dolby Vision on the sony's is thru its internal apps? Wasn' t sure if ill even use the tv apps when I get it. May change my mind.
So far, internal apps and the Apple TV 4k with 11.3 beta OS work.
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post #7774 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
So far, internal apps and the Apple TV 4k with 11.3 beta OS work.
Will most likely be getting the Sony tomorrow. Ref the 11.3 beta OS is that the public beta testing that people were doing? How do I check my ATV 4K? I do have it set to update auto. I tried to see the updates on the apple tv but cant see them anywhere just tells me its up to date. Really want to check out DV when I get the sony. Sorry if this is the wrong lace to post this.

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post #7775 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dancolt View Post
I would highly recommend getting an Apple TV 4K and just don’t use any of the Android Apps. In my opinion, the Sony A1E with an Apple TV 4K is the ultimate setup.
Its not 4K, but a Fire Stick with Terrarium TV is pretty sweet You might want to add that in there for the ultimate setup.
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post #7776 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 12:34 PM
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Finally got to play with one of these (55") at the local BB (they are a slow satellite). Looked as good as could be expected in the bright environment, but the menu lag was a bit shocking, courtesy of Android no doubt and a comparatively skimpy CPU.
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post #7777 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 12:47 PM
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Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Finally got to play with one of these (55") at the local BB (they are a slow satellite). Looked as good as could be expected in the bright environment, but the menu lag was a bit shocking, courtesy of Android no doubt and a comparatively skimpy CPU.


Yes the interface is slow - it’s a raspberry pi version 1 underclocked

It likely needed a reboot. Rebooting ever 3-4 days helps the speed a lot

It’s no match for a 2015 nvidia shield or a 2005 PC

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post #7778 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Finally got to play with one of these (55") at the local BB (they are a slow satellite). Looked as good as could be expected in the bright environment, but the menu lag was a bit shocking, courtesy of Android no doubt and a comparatively skimpy CPU.
Yeah when it’s not happy it’s enough to make me smash the remote. Overall though it’s pretty responsive and not a total nightmare.

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post #7779 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
There is NOTHING simple about DV over HDMI. It is doing something that HDMI 2.0 doesn't support (dynamic metadata) and it seems what Dolby did to make it work was a hack (hence why AVRs and soundbars need to explicitly support passing it) and apparently also had bugs that caused black level problems in a few cases (which now needs the decoder patched on all the TVs). To make things even worse, they decided to make lots of different profiles that work different ways, and Sony got one no one else had used before, which made external devices not work with it yet (although the Apple TV 4k had a beta within a few days that fixed it).

DV has been handled very badly by Dolby so far. This does very much not appear to be Sony's fault. Sony should of course have tested with common external devices themselves earlier to discover the problem before releasing the firmware and being "surprised" it didn't work as they had expected. Supposedly Dolby had claimed all the external devices already supported the new profile when in fact nothing supported the new profile.
I didn't say simple, I said BASIC. Simple or not, displaying output from a player is a basic function that should be implicit in any claim of "enabled." Actually, I could tell it wasn't simple when I saw OPPO's statement from January that "[we are]working with Dolby and [chip maker] MTK to overcome this issue. We do not have a timescale as to when we will have a fix."

I agree with what you say. It's a great analysis. Sure, it's Dolby's fault for hyping and releasing a half-assed product. But I don't let Sony or OPPO off the hook. (Even Sony's own 4K player, to feed into their "DV-enabled" displays, has no DV support.)

I asked "What gives?" on the owner's forum, and someone came closest to the truth: It's all about about competitive forces. That is, Dolby, Sony et al. -- with the connivance of media -- hyped Dolby Vision as a marketing hook, whether it works properly or not. This really is the definition of vaporwear. It's not that vaporware is a fraud, just that it's stuff that has been hyped by the company and commercial media to get people stampeded to buy, which they wind up having to wait a year to get, just so the brand can get a jump on the competition that doesn't have its own vaporware. I think the promise of DV sold a lot of TVs for Sony, and maybe some players for OPPO. Blame it on Dolby, Sony, OPPO, etc. They haven't delivered as promised, knowing they couldn't deliver. Incompetence is a convenient cloak for connivance. Someone mentioned class action. Not practical, but a nice thought.

Finally, I understand that many owners are quite happy with the A1E with or without DV. I have a pre-4K Sony (55W900A), and it's a wonderful set which I can easily live with until the DV cabal stops jerking consumers around. Then I'll gladly jump.

Anyway, this report from Forbes, pretty well sums up the fiasco. The fact that it's from late January makes the continuing fiasco more egregious...and suspicious.

Something just occurred to me. On the consumer end, disks are on their way out in favor of the inferior but cheaper streaming. (Like dedicated cameras to smartphones.) Perhaps it's why getting their TVs to display DV from disk players is something Dolby and Sony people just don't give a damn about.
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post #7780 of 8123 Old 03-19-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lbjack View Post
I didn't say simple, I said BASIC. Simple or not, displaying output from a player is a basic function that should be implicit in any claim of "enabled." Actually, I could tell it wasn't simple when I saw OPPO's statement from January that "[we are]working with Dolby and [chip maker] MTK to overcome this issue. We do not have a timescale as to when we will have a fix."

I agree with what you say. It's a great analysis. Sure, it's Dolby's fault for hyping and releasing a half-assed product. But I don't let Sony or OPPO off the hook. (Even Sony's own 4K player, to feed into their "DV-enabled" displays, has no DV support.)

I asked "What gives?" on the owner's forum, and someone came closest to the truth: It's all about about competitive forces. That is, Dolby, Sony et al. -- with the connivance of media -- hyped Dolby Vision as a marketing hook, whether it works properly or not. This really is the definition of vaporwear. It's not that vaporware is a fraud, just that it's stuff that has been hyped by the company and commercial media to get people stampeded to buy, which they wind up having to wait a year to get, just so the brand can get a jump on the competition that doesn't have its own vaporware. I think the promise of DV sold a lot of TVs for Sony, and maybe some players for OPPO. Blame it on Dolby, Sony, OPPO, etc. They haven't delivered as promised, knowing they couldn't deliver. Incompetence is a convenient cloak for connivance. Someone mentioned class action. Not practical, but a nice thought.

Finally, I understand that many owners are quite happy with the A1E with or without DV. I have a pre-4K Sony (55W900A), and it's a wonderful set which I can easily live with until the DV cabal stops jerking consumers around. Then I'll gladly jump.

Anyway, this report from Forbes, pretty well sums up the fiasco. The fact that it's from late January makes the continuing fiasco more egregious...and suspicious.

Something just occurred to me. On the consumer end, disks are on their way out in favor of the inferior but cheaper streaming. (Like dedicated cameras to smartphones.) Perhaps it's why getting their TVs to display DV from disk players is something Dolby and Sony people just don't give a damn about.
Well I intend to get an Oppo 203, although I am waiting until they get DV working, in case I ever have a use for it. For now the Xbox One X can play UHD discs, even if it isn't great at it.

And yes I agree streaming does seem to be where things are headed to a large extent, even if the quality isn't as high.

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post #7781 of 8123 Old 03-20-2018, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
There is NOTHING simple about DV over HDMI. It is doing something that HDMI 2.0 doesn't support (dynamic metadata) and it seems what Dolby did to make it work was a hack (hence why AVRs and soundbars need to explicitly support passing it) and apparently also had bugs that caused black level problems in a few cases (which now needs the decoder patched on all the TVs). To make things even worse, they decided to make lots of different profiles that work different ways, and Sony got one no one else had used before, which made external devices not work with it yet (although the Apple TV 4k had a beta within a few days that fixed it).

DV has been handled very badly by Dolby so far. This does very much not appear to be Sony's fault. Sony should of course have tested with common external devices themselves earlier to discover the problem before releasing the firmware and being "surprised" it didn't work as they had expected. Supposedly Dolby had claimed all the external devices already supported the new profile when in fact nothing supported the new profile.
I'm not sure that's correct. This is based on my comparison of the Dolby Profile spec from last June and the latest one from November. Yes, there are several different DV profiles, but what matters in this instance is I guess there are really 2 that are HEVC Main10 encoded. One uses just a base layer and the other a base layer plus 1/4 res enhancement layer. The problem was Sony was unable to process the enhancement layer (Dolby suggests due to capability of SoC, I've read in posts here the X1E can't handle it). So Dolby figured out a way to replace the enhancement layer with what they call a "modified enhancement layer" and also set up a flag so the display could determine if it was getting the enhancement layer or the modified enhancement layer. Of course the source has to take the enhancement layer (eg from a UHD DV disk) and create on the fly the modified enhancement layer and set the flags.

I assume Sony competes with Dolby in the digital mastering space so wasn't interested in helping DV get acceptance, but consumer demand forced Sony and Dolby to come to some agreement. I haven't read of any other company wanting the "modified enhancement layer".


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post #7782 of 8123 Old 03-20-2018, 04:33 AM
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^Certainly not Vizio or LG, and I'm inclined to agree. If Panasonic adds support for DV without need for additional profiles, it'll add further fuel to the fire of your theory. I'd be kinda' peeved if I was Oppo, asking to leap because of the collossal effups resulting from the hubris of two tech companies unable to set aside differences over a year ago to ensure interoperability.
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post #7783 of 8123 Old 03-20-2018, 08:41 PM
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Any ideas if the 2018 A1Es will still use 2017 panels from LG or if they'll switch to the perhaps different (larger subpixels) 2018 panel? I heard Sony ordered 100k panels last year, but I don't know if those are all used and sold or if new A1Es and maybe A8Fs will use that old batch.
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post #7784 of 8123 Old 03-21-2018, 08:53 AM
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post #7785 of 8123 Old 03-21-2018, 09:12 AM
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Was hoping you guys could help me out
Just purchased A1E 2 days ago, and also have a B7

My DIRECTV(which was never stellar PQ) looks way better on the B7 than the A1E.. the A1E out of the box just looks like oversaturated via DIRECTV (even changed hdmi cables). Wanted to know if there were settinsg need to change to help this problem. ... from what I know it's the same LG OLED panel, and was hoping the X1 extreme would at least make the PQ a little better

Any help would be much appreciated!
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post #7786 of 8123 Old 03-21-2018, 09:19 AM
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Was hoping you guys could help me out
Just purchased A1E 2 days ago, and also have a B7

My DIRECTV(which was never stellar PQ) looks way better on the B7 than the A1E.. the A1E out of the box just looks like oversaturated via DIRECTV (even changed hdmi cables). Wanted to know if there were settinsg need to change to help this problem. ... from what I know it's the same LG OLED panel, and was hoping the X1 extreme would at least make the PQ a little better

Any help would be much appreciated!
I hope you changed the picture mode to something sane rather than the default. I set it to Cinema pro when I got it and haven't considered changing it since.

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post #7787 of 8123 Old 03-21-2018, 09:32 AM
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I hope you changed the picture mode to something sane rather than the default. I set it to Cinema pro when I got it and haven't considered changing it since.

Yah changed to cinema pro, and been playing with it through YouTube videos A1E setting from AVS I believe
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I'm still on the fence of getting the A1E or C7/8. Leaning toward A1E for the better upscaling... C8 should get closer if not as good, but not better.. and the A8F does really change more than the stand.

so.. for upscaling, is there a go-to 1080p video clip to use to test upscaling capabilities? would like to take it into BB and check it out.
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I'm still on the fence of getting the A1E or C7/8. Leaning toward A1E for the better upscaling... C8 should get closer if not as good, but not better.. and the A8F does really change more than the stand.

so.. for upscaling, is there a go-to 1080p video clip to use to test upscaling capabilities? would like to take it into BB and check it out.
I went with the A1E
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post #7790 of 8123 Old 03-21-2018, 04:28 PM
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I would wait and see how the C8 performs.

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I'm still on the fence of getting the A1E or C7/8. Leaning toward A1E for the better upscaling... C8 should get closer if not as good, but not better.. and the A8F does really change more than the stand.

so.. for upscaling, is there a go-to 1080p video clip to use to test upscaling capabilities? would like to take it into BB and check it out.
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post #7791 of 8123 Old 03-21-2018, 05:34 PM
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I went with the A1E
Me too.Brought it home today as a matter of fact..

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^^^ Unless Sony bought a landslide of the old panels, which is not probable, they will be the new version.
Ha! That begs the question of how one would determine if one is getting a fresh panel (assuming '18 is somehow different/better) and what manufacture date is the transition.

Apparently Sony is ordering around 100k panels per quarter according to this August article.


https://www.oled-info.com/sony-asks-lgd-double-oled-tv-panel-supply-following-high-demand-sonys-oled-tvs
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post #7793 of 8123 Old 03-22-2018, 05:24 AM
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I asked this in the owners thread so sorry for repetition.I can seem to program my directv remote for the A1E.Allways have done this with my other TV's.The A1E is not even listed in the model numbers list.Tryed the " I don't know model number" and nothing.Could use the help.thanks

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I asked this in the owners thread so sorry for repetition.I can seem to program my directv remote for the A1E.Allways have done this with my other TV's.The A1E is not even listed in the model numbers list.Tryed the " I don't know model number" and nothing.Could use the help.thanks


I had that same problem on my A1E , I clicked "I don't know my model" and it didn't work the first time and tried for 2nd time consecutively and it worked
Hope it wasn't a fluke for me , and you are able to get yours working
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post #7795 of 8123 Old 03-22-2018, 05:43 AM
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I had that same problem on my A1E , I clicked "I don't know my model" and it didn't work the first time and tried for 2nd time consecutively and it worked
Hope it wasn't a fluke for me , and you are able to get yours working
Thanks I've tried numerous times and no dice.Cant get it to work.....

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post #7796 of 8123 Old 03-22-2018, 06:27 AM
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Will most likely be getting the Sony tomorrow. Ref the 11.3 beta OS is that the public beta testing that people were doing? How do I check my ATV 4K? I do have it set to update auto. I tried to see the updates on the apple tv but cant see them anywhere just tells me its up to date. Really want to check out DV when I get the sony. Sorry if this is the wrong lace to post this.
Hi, in case this wasn't answered, if you 1. join the public beta program, and 2. have beta updates selected in the ATV 4K, you will get the most recent beta that enables DV to the Sony. I think it is on 11.3 beta 5 or 6 (lost count). Your screen should show iTovs 11.3 (not 11.2.6).

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Spoiler!
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post #7797 of 8123 Old 03-22-2018, 06:28 AM
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Thanks I've tried numerous times and no dice.Cant get it to work.....


I'm sorry I just remembered I reset the directv remote.. look online on how to activate the remote back on to your directv box.. cause when you reset it , it will not turn on the box anymore.. you will have to link it back to your directv box
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post #7798 of 8123 Old 03-22-2018, 09:39 AM
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Use code for Sony 850 in direct tv remote and try that

1) 7.2.4 Atmos; Marantz 8802a; Parasound A51; Parasound 1250; Oppo BDP203; AppleTV4K; Harmony Hub; Paradigm Prestige 95F; ML Descent-i; Prestige 2000sw; 4x SA-ADP paradigm in walls surrounds; 4x paradigm ceilings, angled; Furman; XBR-77A1E; xfinity x1; 2) 5.1; Marantz 7702; Emotiva XPA-5; Monster Power Center; Oppo-BDP93; Apple 2K; Harmony Hub; Paradigm Studio 100 v.5, CC-690, SA-ADP in-walls; Paradigm Sub 15; Panasonic ZT60 65"; Xfinity X1
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post #7799 of 8123 Old 03-22-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
Use code for Sony 850 in direct tv remote and try that
that did it.thx

Sony XBR65A1E,(Pioneer 500m relocated), AppleTv 4K,Marantz sr7012, System Audio Loudspeakers( sa1750 mains), ML Grotto.
Eastern Electric Minimax cd, Oppo UDP-203, Toshiba HD, Pro Ject 1expression Carbon TT.
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post #7800 of 8123 Old 03-25-2018, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post
Ha! That begs the question of how one would determine if one is getting a fresh panel (assuming '18 is somehow different/better) and what manufacture date is the transition.

Apparently Sony is ordering around 100k panels per quarter according to this August article.


https://www.oled-info.com/sony-asks-...sonys-oled-tvs
My A1e that was installed two weeks ago was made in Dec 2017 according to the box it came in.

Sony A1E, Marantz 8805, Montis, Bryston,
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