Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 95 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2821 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jermar View Post
I just received my 65" A1E last eve. Awesome picture! I have a newb question. I have not seen any 4k content. I have Ethernet plugged in. On Amazon, I went to "The Grand Tour", but the bottom bar reads 1080p. I tried Standard and Cinema Pro. Any other free content I might check? What am I doing wrong? Thanks
If you're an Amazon member, The Man in the High Castle is also in UHD HDR. Same with Mozart in the Jungle, and more but I can't think of them off-hand. If you have Netflix there's a lot there as well, but you might need to bump up to a higher subscription level to get over 1080p (as I did last year).
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post #2822 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ness Roman View Post
There is no difference with input lag with Clearness on high or low or off (in game.mode). Clearness is the only option available in game mode when you turn on motion flow, it disables whatever else motion flow does while in game mode so it doesn't add any processing hence no increase in input lag. I didn't look at the review but if you enable motion flow in any other mode it is not just turning on Clearness, everything is enabled and thus all that processing is adding to the input lag..which is already higher since you aren't in game mode.
Somebody mentioned they saw slight flickering on the title of Horizon in the white area (apparently not in-game as they mentioned just the title screen) but I didn't have any flickering on the title screen (and Im not insensitive to flickering) so not sure what's going on there.
Ya, there is some dynamic here that I have to get to the bottom of. I am a motion clarity whore.

I hope it doesn't flicker/strobe at 60 Hz or that would make my purchase a complete waste of time!
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post #2823 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 05:43 PM
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Well, RTINGS now has an A1E - should be interesting, lol

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
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post #2824 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
good stuff. For me the key takeaway is that if you care about HDR and aren't buying a z9, you should get oled.

The 930e has too few zones and has blooming in subtitles and hdr movies so is disqualified (in my view). All other LCD have minimal/no brightness advantage over oled.

I'd like to see Sony 940e and Samsung q9 as well
An interesting observation:
In the Value Electronics showroom there is a Z9 right next to an A1E playing the same content. The A1E measures around 700 nits peak and the Z9 about 1,800 with a 10% window BUT with HDR content playing, the two sets look very "similar" in brightness. You would expect the Z9 to be more than twice as bright but what you do see is bright picture highlights are brighter on the Z9 and the overall picture is a little brighter but it's not 2x as bright!

There is no question that if you have a very bright room the Z9 is a better choice but from the "casual observers", view, because of the deeper blacks, the OLED looks very close.

You really need to see this in person.
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post #2825 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 05:53 PM
 
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I just found the time to look at this.. and I saw it posted before.. and excuse me.. but this clearly shows what I've been saying.. and this guy comes off as a pure shill.. the A1E plainly shows the Sony magic dust working over the G7 here...

Am I the only one who can see the bump in PQ and color in this side-by-side:


I said it before, if a person can't see the difference.. don't waste your time with the A1E.. you may be a bit colorblind.
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post #2826 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
Ya, there is some dynamic here that I have to get to the bottom of. I am a motion clarity whore.

I hope it doesn't flicker/strobe at 60 Hz or that would make my purchase a complete waste of time!
Callsign Vega, I am hihgly interested in your opinion of the clearness at high (BFI) option as described by Ness Roman. Interested to know what you think of it and if you'll see flickering.

I would go test it out in a store but the A1E is not out in Canada yet
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post #2827 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
Callsign Vega, I am hihgly interested in your opinion of the clearness at high (BFI) option as described by Ness Roman. Interested to know what you think of it and if you'll see flickering.

I would go test it out in a store but the A1E is not out in Canada yet
Ya the motion processing of this TV has me seriously intrigued. Ness pretty much had me pull the trigger, hope he isn't blowing smoke up our skirts.

Maybe have both the A1E and C7 this weekend. Just waiting for them to deliver them to the store from the warehouse.
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post #2828 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
Callsign Vega, I am hihgly interested in your opinion of the clearness at high (BFI) option as described by Ness Roman. Interested to know what you think of it and if you'll see flickering.

I would go test it out in a store but the A1E is not out in Canada yet
Creator, the Sony A1E is available in Montreal and in demo at different stores
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post #2829 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
Hmm, this review says using motion-flow frame interpolation raises the input lag to an unbearable 100+ms:

https://www.avforums.com/review/sony...v-review.13313

What is the relationship of the motion-flow and "Clearness" setting?
Smoothness is the interpolation which I see is greyed out and on Min. in Game Mode in Ness Roman's video so I doubt it was even tested in the AVF review. Don't know if you can choose a mode other than Custom in Game Mode though (which could also have been meant).
This set won't be out for another week around here so don't have any hands on opportunity yet ...
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post #2830 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ness Roman View Post
I haven't seen banding yet except once on a games menu (that looked like the source material wanted it banded ? Not sure but they were clear lines between strips of color..Looked like banding but it might not have been ?)

Measuring the input lag has given me some surprising results when I connected it to my PC. There was only 2-3ms difference between my monitor and the A1E in game mode with Clearness on high (BFI) (pics included). Taking into account my monitors input lag (12ms) that means the A1E has a 14-15ms input lag. I measured in 1080p (those are the pics) and 4K and results remain consistent. No wonder I haven't been feeling any input lag xD

The PC was set to YCbCr444 on the highest color depth (32bit and 12bpc) if anybody was curious
Doh, I found the above reference. There is a decimal place error. Milliseconds are thousands, not one hundredths. According to those pictures which are 30-40ms delay, add in the original monitors delay of 10+ ms, means the A1E is 40-50+ ms of input lag. That is definitely too high for me.

Well my TV is already on its way, so I guess I will test the lag in person.
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post #2831 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
I just found the time to look at this.. and I saw it posted before.. and excuse me.. but this clearly shows what I've been saying.. and this guy comes off as a pure shill.. the A1E plainly shows the Sony magic dust working over the G7 here...

Am I the only one who can see the bump in PQ and color in this side-by-side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpA-Vu8pupg&t=313s

I said it before, if a person can't see the difference.. don't waste your time with the A1E.. you may be a bit colorblind.
They sell both so I don't know why they even bother to give input. Resellers should show the product and stop short of comparing and giving their opinion.
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post #2832 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
Ya the motion processing of this TV has me seriously intrigued. Ness pretty much had me pull the trigger, hope he isn't blowing smoke up our skirts.

Maybe have both the A1E and C7 this weekend. Just waiting for them to deliver them to the store from the warehouse.
I still hesitate between C7 and A1E as I will mainly use the TV for gaming so I am interested in your comparison between the two TVs as well.

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Doh, I found the above reference. There is a decimal place error. Milliseconds are thousands, not one hundredths. According to those pictures which are 30-40ms delay, add in the original monitors delay of 10+ ms, means the A1E is 40-50+ ms of input lag. That is definitely too high for me.

Well my TV is already on its way, so I guess I will test the lag in person.
The A1E has been measured at about 30ms at 4k and I think something around 45-47ms at 1080p by reviews. The C7 in game mode or PC mode + ISF is 21ms all around at 1080p, 4k and 4k 4:4:4.
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post #2833 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 08:11 PM
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I expect that the A1E with Ness's motion clarity settings will probably be in that 47 ms range, since it is being processed by the X1 chip just like 1080p is as tested by reviews. Ness's screen shots of input lag seem to back that up, but I don't want Ness to feel bad.

If the motion clarity is as good as Ness says it is, maybe the 40-50ms input lag is worth the trade-off. Although, I definitely start to notice the lag above 25ms or so. The C7 does have 21ms input lag, but it is full sample-and-hold so you get the full eye-tracking based motion blur.

Basically you will probably have to choose:

C7 - low input lag for a TV but moderate motion blur

vs

A1E - moderate input lag for a TV but low motion blur
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post #2834 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 08:21 PM
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post #2835 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 08:26 PM
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I saw today 65 inch and concur with trusted view reviewers that it is much better than any thing OLED or QLED out there. Ofcourse there is huge price tag to pay for it unfortunately Reviewers also claim, that it is based upon LG latest panels.
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post #2836 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
I expect that the A1E with Ness's motion clarity settings will probably be in that 47 ms range, since it is being processed by the X1 chip just like 1080p is as tested by reviews. Ness's screen shots of input lag seem to back that up, but I don't want Ness to feel bad.

If the motion clarity is as good as Ness says it is, maybe the 40-50ms input lag is worth the trade-off. Although, I definitely start to notice the lag above 25ms or so. The C7 does have 21ms input lag, but it is full sample-and-hold so you get the full eye-tracking based motion blur.

Basically you will probably have to choose:

C7 - low input lag for a TV but moderate motion blur

vs

A1E - moderate input lag for a TV but low motion blur
Yep I know. And according to my tests so far, I don't seem too sensitive to input lag but 21ms is still a very nice plus. Plus who knows if I'll see the flickering in clearness high.

Also, it seems the no motion blur is on 60 fps games only (majority of my pc games but not a lot of console games). At 30 fps it's less effective according to Ness and on movies it doesn't work much at all at removing motion blur.

But basically both tvs have their plus and minus

Stand: C7 better, I hate the tilt of A1E and will need the hassle of putting a VESA stand (won't mount to wall)
Motion: Sony supposedly better
OS: C7 better with webos
Input lag: C7 better by a pretty big margin
Motion blur: Sony way better if Clearness works as good as Ness says it does
Shadow details: Sony supposedly better but it's probably very similar

Last edited by Creator44; 05-03-2017 at 09:05 PM.
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post #2837 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 09:02 PM
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are you a veteran ?


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My DL says so.
To buy in the exchange I had to wait til Nov , couldn't wait and was able to get a great deal.
I did have to show my DL
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post #2838 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 09:29 PM
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by Dave__C View Post
Hi All,
I am interested in purchasing a Sony A1E TV, but I want to see it first. (I guess I am old fashion). I visited several good size dealers in my area today, but they do not expect to have anything on the showroom floor for several months or more. Early ones are all pre-ordered. I live near Manassas, VA jut west of Washington DC.
Can anyone recommend a dealer in VA/MD area that might have one on the floor? I can call them to check and am willing to drive some distance to visit.
Thank you.

Opps. I hope this post is all right. I am not asking for pricing. Just possible dealer with item on the floor. Thanks.
Opps, it's oops ! BTW, BB/Magnolia has it on display at both Springfield AND Potomac Mills. Are you trying very hard to find it? I do not know about BB/Magnolia at Manassas yet, but the aforementioned definitely have it. Get going.
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post #2839 of 8172 Old 05-03-2017, 10:35 PM
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Yep I know. And according to my tests so far, I don't seem too sensitive to input lag but 21ms is still a very nice plus. Plus who knows if I'll see the flickering in clearness high.

Also, it seems the no motion blur is on 60 fps games only (majority of my pc games but not a lot of console games). At 30 fps it's less effective according to Ness and on movies it doesn't work much at all at removing motion blur.

But basically both tvs have their plus and minus

Stand: C7 better, I hate the tilt of A1E and will need the hassle of putting a VESA stand (won't mount to wall)
Motion: Sony supposedly better
OS: C7 better with webos
Input lag: C7 better by a pretty big margin
Motion blur: Sony way better if Clearness works as good as Ness says it does
Shadow details: Sony supposedly better but it's probably very similar

It's got me a little concerned too. But let me ask you this, what systems are you gaming on?
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post #2840 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
Yep I know. And according to my tests so far, I don't seem too sensitive to input lag but 21ms is still a very nice plus. Plus who knows if I'll see the flickering in clearness high.

Also, it seems the no motion blur is on 60 fps games only (majority of my pc games but not a lot of console games). At 30 fps it's less effective according to Ness and on movies it doesn't work much at all at removing motion blur.

But basically both tvs have their plus and minus

Stand: C7 better, I hate the tilt of A1E and will need the hassle of putting a VESA stand (won't mount to wall)
Motion: Sony supposedly better
OS: C7 better with webos
Input lag: C7 better by a pretty big margin
Motion blur: Sony way better if Clearness works as good as Ness says it does
Shadow details: Sony supposedly better but it's probably very similar
21 ms vs 29-31ms is not a big difference (4K input lag). So the Sony is perfect for 4K gaming (including 1080p PS4/Xbox One S games via 4k signal as well)

I want the screen for mainly gaming too but it's a minimal difference, half a frame
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Why you waiting?
People keep telling me that family is important too.
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Creator, the Sony A1E is available in Montreal and in demo at different stores
This is what it is driving me crazy. I'm ready to buy but trying to hold out for the Panasonic EZ series which comes sometime in the fall and now my local HT store has this beauty sitting just calling my name.

When in Doubt...Go Flatout!
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post #2843 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 06:10 AM
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I just received my 65" A1E last eve. Awesome picture! I have a newb question. I have not seen any 4k content. I have Ethernet plugged in. On Amazon, I went to "The Grand Tour", but the bottom bar reads 1080p. I tried Standard and Cinema Pro. Any other free content I might check? What am I doing wrong? Thanks
Congrats on your new A1E.

Have you turned on the first setting you need to change, which enables 4K & HDR?: Home/Settings/External/Inputs/HDMI Signal Format/Enhanced Format

My upthread post from a few days ago (2nd spoiler) may provide other tidbits that may also save you some learning time I went through. Good luck and enjoy your A1E!
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21 ms vs 29-31ms is not a big difference (4K input lag). So the Sony is perfect for 4K gaming (including 1080p PS4/Xbox One S games via 4k signal as well)

I want the screen for mainly gaming too but it's a minimal difference, half a frame
Yeah, if he is gaming on the PS4 Pro, I was going to suggest setting it to 4k for (what I consider) good input lag.
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post #2845 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
Yep I know. And according to my tests so far, I don't seem too sensitive to input lag but 21ms is still a very nice plus. Plus who knows if I'll see the flickering in clearness high.

Also, it seems the no motion blur is on 60 fps games only (majority of my pc games but not a lot of console games). At 30 fps it's less effective according to Ness and on movies it doesn't work much at all at removing motion blur.

But basically both tvs have their plus and minus

Stand: C7 better, I hate the tilt of A1E and will need the hassle of putting a VESA stand (won't mount to wall)
Motion: Sony supposedly better
OS: C7 better with webos
Input lag: C7 better by a pretty big margin
Motion blur: Sony way better if Clearness works as good as Ness says it does
Shadow details: Sony supposedly better but it's probably very similar

It's got me a little concerned too. But let me ask you this, what systems are you gaming on?
Everything but mainly ps4 pro and pc.

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Originally Posted by fatallerror View Post
21 ms vs 29-31ms is not a big difference (4K input lag). So the Sony is perfect for 4K gaming (including 1080p PS4/Xbox One S games via 4k signal as well)

I want the screen for mainly gaming too but it's a minimal difference, half a frame
Yes it's not that bad but less stellar than C7 still on input lag.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip61 View Post
Creator, the Sony A1E is available in Montreal and in demo at different stores
This is what it is driving me crazy. I'm ready to buy but trying to hold out for the Panasonic EZ series which comes sometime in the fall and now my local HT store has this beauty sitting just calling my name.
Yes waiting till fall is a little toi long for me but you never know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by assplats
Yeah, if he is gaming on the PS4 Pro, I was going to suggest setting it to 4k for (what I consider) good input lag.
Yes I know about that but I will still have 1080p maxed games on pc and also the tv would probably upscale better than the ps4 pro. Probably the ps4 pro adds some lag when it upscales too.
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post #2846 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 07:43 AM
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Can anyone with an A1E try this and find out for sure? Thanks
You can use optical out and the internal speakers at the same time.
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post #2847 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 07:48 AM
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This is what it is driving me crazy. I'm ready to buy but trying to hold out for the Panasonic EZ series which comes sometime in the fall and now my local HT store has this beauty sitting just calling my name.
If you can wait do it. Love the Sony but it's not in my price point.
In the fall we will have a better idea of the prices.
I have a Kuro so I can wait a bit.
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post #2848 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 08:09 AM
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Yes I know about that but I will still have 1080p maxed games on pc and also the tv would probably upscale better than the ps4 pro. Probably the ps4 pro adds some lag when it upscales too.
Why do you say that? The input lag numbers for the A1E with 1080p content aren't exactly impressive. They are a frame slower, which suggests that the X1E doesn't have a way to scale during the reading of scan lines which would make it faster, and waits for the whole thing to come in before scaling it.

GPU scaling can and will beat such an upscaling algorithm. So even with a little lag added, it will be much lower than what the A1E currently adds.

The A1E might do a slightly better job, but it will take longer, and if input lag is a concern, you will be better off upscaling with the PS4 Pro. It isn't like the source video feed isn't clean.

Sony 65A1E, Marantz 5010, Polk LSiM 705/704.
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post #2849 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip61 View Post
If you can wait do it. Love the Sony but it's not in my price point.
In the fall we will have a better idea of the prices.
I have a Kuro so I can wait a bit.
If you go by the Australian Panasonic site it looks like the prices at least for the EZ 950 are on par with the A1E. $Aus-$Can is even right now.

When in Doubt...Go Flatout!
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post #2850 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 08:14 AM
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1080p input lag on the A1E vs C7 are almost two frames slower. Quite significant.
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