Sony A1E 4K HDR OLED TV Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 96 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2851 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Transfix View Post
This is what it is driving me crazy. I'm ready to buy but trying to hold out for the Panasonic EZ series which comes sometime in the fall and now my local HT store has this beauty sitting just calling my name.
The price can only stay the same or go down!

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post #2852 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
Everything but mainly ps4 pro and pc.



Yes it's not that bad but less stellar than C7 still on input lag.



Yes waiting till fall is a little toi long for me but you never know!



Yes I know about that but I will still have 1080p maxed games on pc and also the tv would probably upscale better than the ps4 pro. Probably the ps4 pro adds some lag when it upscales too.
lol you can't sense 8 ms difference

But the A1 is a no go if you want to play at 1080p. In this case pick the LG Both are great TVs
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post #2853 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 10:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Wow, so those LG OLEDs present a bad picture. Who knew? Wish you would have told me that before I bought mine.
wow I've been writing this for two years now
Connect a computer to the screen and you'll see poor image processing on the web
Opaque colors ,dark picture , and more ....

LG is a nice company, nice people, but lack of professionalism

maybe Panasonic or SONY OLED are better,i have not checked them
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post #2854 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 10:21 AM
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Is everyone using the colored slides for 100 hours to break in their A1E?


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post #2855 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 10:24 AM
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post #2856 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 10:27 AM
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Oh my A1E arrived today at the store for pickup. Although I may not have time to pick it up and set it up until tomorrow.
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post #2857 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 10:50 AM
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I bought the 65", A1E despite having to live with a very bright family room setup. I still hate the easel, but being able to rotate it is more important. I put the set on a VMP TT32 turntable. It is very secure, and I can swivel it with one finger so we can see the set from the dinner table. No complaints about brightness. Thought you might like to see.
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post #2858 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 10:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jermar View Post
I bought the 65", A1E despite having to live with a very bright family room setup. I still hate the easel, but being able to rotate it is more important. I put the set on a VMP TT32 turntable. It is very secure, and I can swivel it with one finger so we can see the set from the dinner table. No complaints about brightness. Thought you might like to see.
Nice looking pictures but se why the easel stand would be irritating
Big Shame hope Sony learns from that mistake next year.
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post #2859 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by popyang45 View Post
wow I've been writing this for two years now
Connect a computer to the screen and you'll see poor image processing on the web
Opaque colors ,dark picture , and more ....

LG is a nice company, nice people, but lack of professionalism

maybe Panasonic or SONY OLED are better,i have not checked them
You missed the sarcasm, but that's OK. My B6's picture is fabulous.

I saw the Sony at BB and it was very nice. Could I tell it was any better playing the 4K demo than an LG OLED? Nope. Could I easily see BB will have trouble getting the average buyer to buy one since they have it located right below the ZD9? Yup. The far brighter imagery of the ZD9 will unquestionably sway many buyers.
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post #2860 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:02 AM
 
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Sony A1 messures at 650 nits vs Lg 2017 oleds 750/800 nits on hdr.
650 nits was the 2016 Lg Oled standard on hdr.

Slight Odd they not matching Lg ones this year.
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post #2861 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:13 AM
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post #2862 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
Sony A1 messures at 650 nits vs Lg 2017 oleds 750/800 nits on hdr.
650 nits was the 2016 Lg Oled standard on hdr.

Slight Odd they not matching Lg ones this year.
The W7 gets no more brighter than the A1E.
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post #2863 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
The W7 gets no more brighter than the A1E.
It does the W7 is 100/150nits brighter on

What you see is brighter on the A1 is the to much blue in standard mode vs the Lg W7 thats more accurate calibrated out the box.
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post #2864 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Kolenka View Post
Why do you say that? The input lag numbers for the A1E with 1080p content aren't exactly impressive. They are a frame slower, which suggests that the X1E doesn't have a way to scale during the reading of scan lines which would make it faster, and waits for the whole thing to come in before scaling it.

GPU scaling can and will beat such an upscaling algorithm. So even with a little lag added, it will be much lower than what the A1E currently adds.

The A1E might do a slightly better job, but it will take longer, and if input lag is a concern, you will be better off upscaling with the PS4 Pro. It isn't like the source video feed isn't clean.
Ok. I meant possibly better pq with the tv upscaling since sony have so much hype on their upscaling pq. Thx for the scanlines thing explanation.

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Originally Posted by fatallerror View Post
Lol you can't sense 8 ms difference

But the A1 is a no go if you want to play at 1080p. In this case pick the LG Both are great TVs
Probably not, especially me according to my tests in stores with games but theres a point where you will start to feel it or so people say. I am still telling myself that it seems impossible that I don't feel the input lag that much since I play games a lot but like somebody told me it's about each person's brain + getting used to input lag and making high input lag the normality for you.

On pc, I will still need 1080p for quite some games because of limited engines or because I won't get 60 fps at 4k so I would need to test 1080p on the A1E to be safe.

The clearness at high to remove motion blur is the big thing about the A1E for me.
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post #2865 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by New24K View Post
I suggest we wait for some real professional reviews and calibrations of the 2017 OLEDs...

Rtings just got their A1E - we will see what their measurements turn out to be.
Waiting on Hd tv test A1 review thats the best review site out there.
The Lg B7 got a positive one there already. Will be fun to se what they say. Rtings i dont trust one bit.
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post #2866 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
It does the W7 is 100/150nits brighter on

What you see is brighter on the A1 is the to much blue in standard mode vs the Lg W7 thats more accurate calibrated out the box.
The A1E in Vivid mode with XDR and ACE on High.. the W7 does not perform brighter.

Vivid Mode with XDR on High produces 780nits.. there was a german review that did it, I can't find it.. but I did post the review earlier in this thread somewhere.

The A1E is Vivid mode with XDR and ACE on high is unwatchable because its too bright.
I don't think anyone has measured the A1E in this status with a HDR white box. I haven't seen the measurement claiming this TV setup yet.

I've been right all along, and I will be right again once someone decides to measure with all the switches on.

The A1E hits at least 800nits in Vivid HDR with XDR and ACE on HIGH. But its totally unwatchable.
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post #2867 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
The A1E in Vivid mode with XDR and ACE on High.. the W7 does not perform brighter.

Vivid Mode with XDR on High produces 780nits.. there was a german review that did it, I can't find it.. but I did post the review its in earlier in this thread somewhere.

The A1E is Vivid mode with XDR and ACE on high is unwatchable because its too bright.
I don't think anyone has measured the A1E in this status with a HDR white box. I haven't seen the measurement claiming this TV setup yet.

I've been right all along, and I will be right again once someone decides to measure with all the switches on.
Vivid mode nobody uses on a tv. Tvs are judged by the most accurate they Get when they are calibrated. Nobody watches Movies in Vivid.
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post #2868 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
It does the W7 is 100/150nits brighter on

What you see is brighter on the A1 is the to much blue in standard mode vs the Lg W7 thats more accurate calibrated out the box.
Says the LG owner I'm sure the slight difference is not noticable. If you have a bright room and want the best HDR pic, we all know z9 is the way to go.
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Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra H


FS Gen2 Nvidia shield TV 2017 version
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post #2869 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EF9500 View Post
Says the LG owner I'm sure the slight difference is not noticable. If you have a bright room and want the best HDR pic, we all know z9 is the way to go.
Finally a good point, is the diffrence in nits visible to our eyes?
Maybe a calibrator could comment?
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
Vivid mode nobody uses on a tv. Tvs are judged by the most accurate they Get when they are calibrated. Nobody watches Movies in Vivid.
This is the point I'm trying to make, no one watching in Vivid.. but it's in Vivid HDR mode where the A1E outputs its most brightness performance..

I've made the statement before when I've tried it, the A1E Vivid HDR mode looks like a LCD performance.
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post #2871 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EF9500 View Post
Says the LG owner I'm sure the slight difference is not noticable. If you have a bright room and want the best HDR pic, we all know z9 is the way to go.
Just put the A1E in Vivid mode.. I believe the brightness in Vivid takes the OLED panel past the reasonable quality of performance for OLED into where LED is better built to handle.
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post #2872 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
Finally a good point, is the diffrence in nits visible to our eyes?
Maybe a calibrator could comment?
Humans perceive brightness along logarithmic scale, so 600 vs 700 nits is not that big of a perceived difference.

Here is a chart that should help:



source: http://vanhurkman.com/wordpress/?p=3548

:edit: Here is hdtv polska qualitative description of difference in brightness:
The results can be interpreted as follows (for the present time):
350 cd / m2 - minimum to see that it is an image with HDR effect at all
351 - 500 cd / m2 - an interval in which higher brightness and greater detail can be felt in white, but there is no gap in SDR content
501 - 750cd / m2 - starts to make nice, feel that we associate with new image quality
751 - 1 000 cd / m2 - HDR effect clearly noticeable, the number of details in bright fields is very large
1 001 - 1 500 cd / m2 - HDR effect in full glory, resulting in WOW effect
> 1 500 cd / m2 - the song of the future, I am waiting for a display that will be able to show HDR in such a dimension
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Last edited by 10k; 05-04-2017 at 12:05 PM.
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post #2873 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 12:07 PM
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On pc, I will still need 1080p for quite some games because of limited engines or because I won't get 60 fps at 4k so I would need to test 1080p on the A1E to be safe.
In NVIDIA can't you set rendering resolution to 1080p but then also use "gpu scaling" instead of "display scaling" to have your gpu upscale the 1080p render to 4k signal rather than have the tv do it?
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post #2874 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
Waiting on Hd tv test A1 review thats the best review site out there.
The Lg B7 got a positive one there already. Will be fun to se what they say. Rtings i dont trust one bit.
HDTV Test measured 700 nits for the E7/W7? And this new German review (see below) measured the A1 at 700 nits with 6599K white ... (on the 10% window; 700.22 to be precise)
Also seem to recall a review/comparison saying the Sony looks brighter with actual content?

edit: the B7 was tested at 750 nits by the HDTV Test reviewer in a test for Trusted Reviews. What's interesting about this is that the Polish B7 review has a pixel structure closeup and it looks slightly different than the one in the A1 and W7.
And from the AV Forums A1 review: "This peak brightness and full field performance is on a par with the LG W7 that we measured recently ".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness Roman View Post
There is no difference with input lag with Clearness on high or low or off (in game.mode)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
I expect that the A1E with Ness's motion clarity settings will probably be in that 47 ms range, since it is being processed by the X1 chip just like 1080p is as tested by reviews. Ness's screen shots of input lag seem to back that up, but I don't want Ness to feel bad.
So the input lag has been tested with the Bodnar device for 1080p with Clearness on Low and High and 'High' added about 8ms (47 vs 55).
(in a German video review as posted below)
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post #2875 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 12:40 PM
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Review and test.

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post #2876 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 12:41 PM
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My 55" A1E has arrived and it is absolutely incredible !

E

Theater: Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra HD, Oppo-205, Anthem AVM60, 7.1.4 B & W CM 7 LR,CDM-cse, CM 1, CM 1 S2, Silverline minuet , SVS SB13 Ultra, Rotel RMB 1555, Parasound A23, Naim NAP 100, EEcolor lut box. Calman, MobileForge, I1D3 & I1pro 2.
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post #2877 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 12:52 PM
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In NVIDIA can't you set rendering resolution to 1080p but then also use "gpu scaling" instead of "display scaling" to have your gpu upscale the 1080p render to 4k signal rather than have the tv do it?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolenka View Post
Why do you say that? The input lag numbers for the A1E with 1080p content aren't exactly impressive. They are a frame slower, which suggests that the X1E doesn't have a way to scale during the reading of scan lines which would make it faster, and waits for the whole thing to come in before scaling it.

GPU scaling can and will beat such an upscaling algorithm. So even with a little lag added, it will be much lower than what the A1E currently adds.

The A1E might do a slightly better job, but it will take longer, and if input lag is a concern, you will be better off upscaling with the PS4 Pro. It isn't like the source video feed isn't clean.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the PS4 Pro (and the Xbox One S) are set to 4K output, they upscale and send a 4K signal out for all content, including 1080p? The A1E's problems with 1080p and below input lag are only a problem for the Nintendo Switch or retro consoles.
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post #2878 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 12:54 PM
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OK...

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post #2879 of 8172 Old 05-04-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by New24K View Post
OK...
, they are testing the C7 next so they will have a comparison with the A1 soon.
For now they said the A1 is the first OLED where the brightness limitations aren't an obvious issue and also they/he thinks it's best HDR performance of any tv in a dark environment (and they have tested the ZD9, KS9800, X930E). But this might just be a matter of taste, after all it's still only one opinion.

Aside from the obvious benefits of (Sony) having the best motion interpolation and the Smooth Gradation of course. More points were raised but as said they have not reviewed any 2017 LG's yet (the will also test the top of the range Panasonic OLED at a later date and probably the new one from Philips but that won't be of any use for you guys in the US of A). Not too much point in discussing this review until they've completed the C7 one ...
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
In NVIDIA can't you set rendering resolution to 1080p but then also use "gpu scaling" instead of "display scaling" to have your gpu upscale the 1080p render to 4k signal rather than have the tv do it?
Yes, but the downside is Nvidia scaler is quite crappy (I don't know about AMD). So it will be more blurry compared to the TV scaling.

Increasing the TV sharpness could probably reduce that blurry effect.
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