2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 1110 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33271 of 37271 Old 10-31-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
When you say very dark, do you mean SDR or HDR?
mostly SDR, most HDR looks ok to me, mostly to the washed out side.
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post #33272 of 37271 Old 10-31-2018, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
That's interesting. Be really cool if the 7 series acted like the 8 series.
I would like to see the curve of what the 7 series used to do on the old firmware before they changed it.

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post #33273 of 37271 Old 10-31-2018, 10:47 PM
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How old? That video is from a couple of months ago.


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post #33274 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 05:12 AM
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NEW Logitech K600 Wireless Keyboard

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/produ...rt-tv-keyboard


Supports three devices and six platforms. Connects via included Logi Unifying Receiver (UR) or Bluetooth (BT) to Samsung Smart TV, LG Smart TV, Android TV/Android mobile devices (Fire TV), Windows, macOS, iOS, and Chrome OS

I initially set it up for WebOS on my LG OLED with its included USB UR as Device 1. Then got it connected by BT to my FireTV Cube as Device 2. Remembered I had a spare older UR for my K400 that I was using on my FireTV so set it up with the Cube as Device 3. I'll get around to ditching the Cube BT connection.

The setup is a little obscure. If you have Windows, the easiest way is to use Logi's UR Connector app and set it up on the PC and then move the UR to what you want to control.
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post #33275 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by onaga View Post
For the last year and a half I've been using the recommendation here for people who will never be able to calibrate the TV (use dark or technicolor isf and adjust the light oled and go)

this way you get the maximum that the uncalibrated oled can give, my problem is that I could never get used to this image of the oled, dark its very dark,why its so damn dark? Whenever I watch a movie I say ... ****, you can not see anything!

Have I been a year with a defective panel? the truth is I'm thinking about selling the oled and letting this nightmare end, the ocd its killing me
Many, many people here use these settings. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post55037420

The color settings take a little patience to set but really help with SDR/cable TV skin tones, etc.
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post #33276 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
That's interesting. Be really cool if the 7 series acted like the 8 series.
It would be great if the hardware auto updated as well
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post #33277 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathodeRay View Post
Many, many people here use these settings. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post55037420

The color settings take a little patience to set but really help with SDR/cable TV skin tones, etc.
sadly sonoftumble settings dont work for me at all, tvs are different and copying white balance and CMS will only make it worts. (believe, i tried)

the only settings that i can copy its gamma 2.2 and that it, becuase the rest its just ISF default.

gamma 2.2 make my panel incredible washed out, to the point that black level noise its easy to see even in a bright room(WTF)
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post #33278 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
It would be great if the hardware auto updated as well
Hardware replacements are unlikely. That would cost millions of dollars.

But there are literally two or three lines of code in a firmware update that can update the tone mapping curve for game mode. It would be less work than just about anything included in the recent firmware update, and generate lots of good will.


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post #33279 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onaga View Post
sadly sonoftumble settings dont work for me at all, tvs are different and copying white balance and CMS will only make it worts. (believe, i tried)

the only settings that i can copy its gamma 2.2 and that it, becuase the rest its just ISF default.

gamma 2.2 make my panel incredible washed out, to the point that black level noise its easy to see even in a bright room(WTF)
Copying detailed CMS and color temp settings can be problematic. Works for some people, and not for others.

But default Technicolor mode with a few adjustments is typically VERY CLOSE to industry standards, OOTB. See an example, here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56279032


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post #33280 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 04:48 PM
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New settings for gaming using the new fixed PC Input - > https://www.avsforum.com/forum/141-x...l#post56971892
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post #33281 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
New settings for gaming using the new fixed PC Input - > https://www.avsforum.com/forum/141-x...l#post56971892


Do you now suggest using PC mode? Even with the fixes, doesn’t PC mode force you to 8 bit color, therefore with banding? Curious about why PC mode is now better than regular mode. Thanks.


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post #33282 of 37271 Old 11-01-2018, 05:58 PM
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2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by Robin77 View Post
It's beacause of that's a bug. See explaination here at the end of the video on youtube: youtube.com/watch?v=IyII6Z80unY
And please stop writing about this, cause as you said, YOU don't undesrtand.....


Lol it’s NOT a big. Tone mapping the entire range will produce a picture with MORE detail but a LOWER average picture level or APL. This is why you might say it’s dim. However, many experts from around the web have said that the darker the room the more impressive HDR will appear and for my part, my room with the lights off produces a spectacular picture while others claim it’s dark. It is also well known that ambient lighting affects black level calibration.

LG’s tone mapping for game mode does not clip detail out which is desirable for me but to do so the image may appear dimmer than other TVs. How dim depends on the room and the game in question and it’s settings. To call it a bug suggests undesired results due to software glitches. LG is giving you the exact picture they want you to see which is not a bug. It is the intended look
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post #33283 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by thatJohann View Post
Do you now suggest using PC mode? Even with the fixes, doesn’t PC mode force you to 8 bit color, therefore with banding? Curious about why PC mode is now better than regular mode. Thanks.


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The added banding I was seeing was apparently due to slightly raised black levels of HDR Standard, and as soon as I lowered the Brightness the PQ was identical to HDR Standard with same settings on "non-PC" mode. It's also important to have 4:2:2 Unchecked/Disabled on X1X Video Settings.

So I'm (finally) suggesting "PC Input" as this is now providing a fully calibrated SDR Profile (with ISF Expert Dark Room) and a properly functioning and brighter HDR Standard that when calibrated/desaturated provides the best picture for mixed usage and contents mastered at different nits (Games, Streaming Movies, 4K/HDR Blu-rays).

For example: Planet Earth 2 Blu-Ray looked incredible with it, and as a note: Forza Horizon 4 white logo still faded around 3.000 nits HDR Luminance.
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post #33284 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
LG is giving you the exact picture they want you to see which is not a bug. It is the intended look
I don't have a dog in the fight because I don't use any HDR consoles, but I've seen all the complaining online, so it's interesting to me to note that LG has clearly decided that they also have an exact picture that they want the 2018 customers to see, which is quite different.

This begs the question, why would they want 2018 customers to see a different picture to the 2017 customers?

If it's only a couple of lines of code, then why not add a checkbox so people can decide for themselves which curve they like?

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post #33285 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 01:38 AM
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Hi, I'm trying to update from USB stick here in the UK but am experiencing a problem. In the past the process has always worked without any issues but this time, instead of bringing up the update screen when I plug the USB into the TV, it brings up the media player choices. I have tried two drives and have gone through a power cycle but to no avail. I have checked to see if the online update is available but it isn't, as yet. I wonder if anyone has any idea how I can get the TV to accept this update?

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post #33286 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
The added banding I was seeing was apparently due to slightly raised black levels of HDR Standard, and as soon as I lowered the Brightness the PQ was identical to HDR Standard with same settings on "non-PC" mode. It's also important to have 4:2:2 Unchecked/Disabled on X1X Video Settings.

So I'm (finally) suggesting "PC Input" as this is now providing a fully calibrated SDR Profile (with ISF Expert Dark Room) and a properly functioning and brighter HDR Standard that when calibrated/desaturated provides the best picture for mixed usage and contents mastered at different nits (Games, Streaming Movies, 4K/HDR Blu-rays).

For example: Planet Earth 2 Blu-Ray looked incredible with it, and as a note: Forza Horizon 4 white logo still faded around 3.000 nits HDR Luminance.

If you don't mind me asking... why are you using HDR Standard instead of HDR Expert? I know that Standard mode is the brightest out of the box, but Expert let's you calibrate more settings, doesn't it? And what about the tone-mapping via Dynamic Contrast: Low? From what I understand in HDR Standard it's forcedly disabled.
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post #33287 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by onaga View Post
sadly sonoftumble settings dont work for me at all, tvs are different and copying white balance and CMS will only make it worts. (believe, i tried)

the only settings that i can copy its gamma 2.2 and that it, becuase the rest its just ISF default.

gamma 2.2 make my panel incredible washed out, to the point that black level noise its easy to see even in a bright room(WTF)
@onaga ... My opinion, but I think that you either need to do a full factory reset and start over, or there is a signal quality issue with your content sources. There is no way that you should have a washed out picture using the technicolor Expert picture mode, setting the gamma to 2.2, and setting the OLED LIGHT to 49 - simply as a base. Those are the most accurate out of the box settings available for the 7 series OLED's. The more detailed adjustments for the CMS and White Balance are so minor that they are literally optional.

Use the above picture mode and settings, and leave the rest of the basic settings as is. This should yield an excellent picture.
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post #33288 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
Hi, I'm trying to update from USB stick here in the UK but am experiencing a problem. In the past the process has always worked without any issues but this time, instead of bringing up the update screen when I plug the USB into the TV, it brings up the media player choices. I have tried two drives and have gone through a power cycle but to no avail. I have checked to see if the online update is available but it isn't, as yet. I wonder if anyone has any idea how I can get the TV to accept this update?
I updated my C7V in the UK last night and had the same problem initially. I've always updated over USB rather than OTA and have always used the same drive (Sandisk
Ultra 16GB) so was a little perplexed at first. But I popped the drive back into my laptop, formatted the drive (FAT32 Default), created a folder LG_DTV, popped the extracted firmware into that and after rebooting the TV it updated straight away. So I would suggest just reformatting the drive again and see if that helps.

Regards, Leon
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post #33289 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokei-ihto View Post
If you don't mind me asking... why are you using HDR Standard instead of HDR Expert? I know that Standard mode is the brightest out of the box, but Expert let's you calibrate more settings, doesn't it? And what about the tone-mapping via Dynamic Contrast: Low? From what I understand in HDR Standard it's forcedly disabled.
HDR Technicolor Expert on PC Input has Dynamic Contrast options OFF and greyed out, so with no Active HDR (no Dynamic Tone Mapping) and no contrast enhancements . This unfortunately results in a much more dimmer image compared to HDR Standard that, if adjusted, can provide much better results overall.
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post #33290 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 10:42 AM
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HDR Technicolor Expert on PC Input has Dynamic Contrast options OFF and greyed out, so with no Active HDR (no Dynamic Tone Mapping) and no contrast enhancements . This unfortunately results in a much more dimmer image compared to HDR Standard that, if adjusted, can provide much better results overall.

Ah, okay, thanks for the reply.


So basically PC Input has the majority of normally adjustable settings disabled by default. I guess there's no perfect solution for the 2017 LG sets, no matter what you do.
Anyway, I do appreciate your calibration thread/posts over at resetera. Keep up the good work.
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post #33291 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
I updated my C7V in the UK last night and had the same problem initially. I've always updated over USB rather than OTA and have always used the same drive (Sandisk
Ultra 16GB) so was a little perplexed at first. But I popped the drive back into my laptop, formatted the drive (FAT32 Default), created a folder LG_DTV, popped the extracted firmware into that and after rebooting the TV it updated straight away. So I would suggest just reformatting the drive again and see if that helps.

Regards, Leon
Hi Leon,
Many thanks for the heads up on this. I am now up and running on the new firmware.
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post #33292 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tokei-ihto View Post
Ah, okay, thanks for the reply.


So basically PC Input has the majority of normally adjustable settings disabled by default. I guess there's no perfect solution for the 2017 LG sets, no matter what you do.
Anyway, I do appreciate your calibration thread/posts over at resetera. Keep up the good work.
Now that we have a properly fixed PC Input Mode, it's better to permantly switch there as HDMI Input for 3 main reasons:
  1. SDR can be set to fully calibrated ISF Expert (Dark Room) profile, that is a carbon copy of Technicolor Expert profile. This will provide more accurate PQ than SDR Game as it's now finally possible to select the Auto Color Gamut (instead of Wide) and to include all the calibrated White Balance and CMS adjustments. All while preserving 21ms Input Lag;
  2. HDR Standard is the brightest mode possible for gaming (it's as bright as HDR Technicolor Expert with Active HDR ON, if not brighter) while can also be color accurate after some adjustments. This is not possible with HDR Game as the only way to make it more bright is to increase Dynamic Contrast, and the more it's increased the more fidelity to reference colors is lost (and the only way to reach a similar brightness as HDR Technicolor Expert with Active HDR was with DC to HIGH...but noticeably crushing black levels on many scenes for that. This is not happening on HDR Standard). The only drawback of HDR Standard is highlights clipping over 1.000 nits parts of the image, but this generally translates only to clipped bright skies on daytime...and in the end, it's a more acceptable compromise compared to totally altering colors on all scenes all the time (plus if you go outside in real life on a sunny day riding a car and glance the clear sky, even your own eyes will "clip" all that brightness after a certain intensity. So that's not so bad or strange as a compromise!)
  3. You don't need to switch back and forth Inputs anymore, and you can now settle to PC Input for everything HDMI as even Dolby Vision Cinema mode is identical to "non-PC" quality...and most probably will have 21ms Input Lag too if and when DV games will come someday!
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post #33293 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
Now that we have a properly fixed PC Input Mode, it's better to permantly switch there as HDMI Input for 3 main reasons:
  1. SDR can be set to fully calibrated ISF Expert (Dark Room) profile, that is a carbon copy of Technicolor Expert profile. This will provide more accurate PQ than SDR Game as it's now finally possible to select the Auto Color Gamut (instead of Wide) and to include all the calibrated White Balance and CMS adjustments. All while preserving 21ms Input Lag;
  2. HDR Standard is the brightest mode possible for gaming (it's as bright as HDR Technicolor Expert with Active HDR ON, if not brighter) while can also be color accurate after some adjustments. This is not possible with HDR Game as the only way to make it more bright is to increase Dynamic Contrast, and the more it's increased the more fidelity to reference colors is lost (and the only way to reach a similar brightness as HDR Technicolor Expert with Active HDR was with DC to HIGH...but noticeably crushing black levels on many scenes for that. This is not happening on HDR Standard). The only drawback of HDR Standard is highlights clipping over 1.000 nits parts of the image, but this generally translates only to clipped bright skies on daytime...and in the end, it's a more acceptable compromise compared to totally altering colors on all scenes all the time (plus if you go outside in real life on a sunny day riding a car and glance the clear sky, even your own eyes will "clip" all that brightness after a certain intensity. So that's not so bad or strange as a compromise!)
  3. You don't need to switch back and forth Inputs anymore, and you can now settle to PC Input for everything HDMI as even Dolby Vision Cinema mode is identical to "non-PC" quality...and most probably will have 21ms Input Lag too if and when DV games will come someday!

But how can you be sure that pc Mode now is 10 Bit instead of 8 as before? And how could youve been sure that it was 8 Bit before, cause the tv doesnt show that Detail info?

And 2nd question: my netflix has sound but only black picture since the new Firmware update, anyone else?
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post #33294 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin77 View Post
But how can you be sure that pc Mode now is 10 Bit instead of 8 as before? And how could youve been sure that it was 8 Bit before, cause the tv doesnt show that Detail info?

And 2nd question: my netflix has sound but only black picture since the new Firmware update, anyone else?
"PC Input" and "non-PC" Input HDR, with same profiles and settings, are now identical while it was washed out + yellow tint + color banding and other typical 8-bit artifacts on a 10-bit display before.

No issues with Netflix both on webOS and HDMI with PC Input Mode.

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post #33295 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 11:40 AM
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[

And 2nd question: my netflix has sound but only black picture since the new Firmware update, anyone else?
I just had the exact same problem.
Suddenly no more picture on Netflix nor any hdmi input. Sound still worked.
Only thing that worked was a complete reset of the tv.
I hope this won’t happen again.
First time it happened to me and also updated to last firmware a few days ago.
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post #33296 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 03:38 PM
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@onaga ... My opinion, but I think that you either need to do a full factory reset and start over, or there is a signal quality issue with your content sources. There is no way that you should have a washed out picture using the technicolor Expert picture mode, setting the gamma to 2.2, and setting the OLED LIGHT to 49 - simply as a base. Those are the most accurate out of the box settings available for the 7 series OLED's. The more detailed adjustments for the CMS and White Balance are so minor that they are literally optional.

Use the above picture mode and settings, and leave the rest of the basic settings as is. This should yield an excellent picture.
i know sonoftumble, your settings are great as a base, but for the most content that i watch(streaming a lot of series and anime) and also gaming, gamma 2.2 make my picture extremly dull, its like a strange vale of grey in all picture, really noticiable in faces.

using gamma 2.4 clean this issue, but make the picture so so so so dark.

a always have to watch tv in a very dark to penumbra room to make out any detail on backgrounds etc.
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2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I don't have a dog in the fight because I don't use any HDR consoles, but I've seen all the complaining online, so it's interesting to me to note that LG has clearly decided that they also have an exact picture that they want the 2018 customers to see, which is quite different.

This begs the question, why would they want 2018 customers to see a different picture to the 2017 customers?

If it's only a couple of lines of code, then why not add a checkbox so people can decide for themselves which curve they like?


There are changes to the panel itself that allows a higher APL without sacrificing the same amount of detail that previous models contend with. It’s all a balancing act. They have to work within the confines of what is possible on the models for the year. The new panels In the 8 series allow less clipping while keeping the picture brighter. It’s not just software that allows this change.

LG 65" B7A OLED, Samsung 55" JS9000, Sony 43" x800e, Denon AVR-X2200w 5.1.2, PS4 Pro, Nintendo Switch, Gaming PC(GTX 1080ti + 4.7Ghz 8700k), Sony UBP-x800, Philips BDP-7501, Oppo BDP-203, Nvidia Shield TV
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post #33298 of 37271 Old 11-02-2018, 08:46 PM
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Did anybody notice any changes to dolbyvision with the new update?
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post #33299 of 37271 Old 11-03-2018, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
"PC Input" and "non-PC" Input HDR, with same profiles and settings, are now identical while it was washed out + yellow tint + color banding and other typical 8-bit artifacts on a 10-bit display before.

No issues with Netflix both on webOS and HDMI with PC Input Mode.
Do you recommend these settings for PS4 PRO users as well? Because you cannot force the PS4 to output 8bit.
If not, what would you recommend?
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post #33300 of 37271 Old 11-03-2018, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymon89 View Post
Do you recommend these settings for PS4 PRO users as well? Because you cannot force the PS4 to output 8bit.
If not, what would you recommend?
Yes, and no need to force 8-bit on PS4 Pro as it behaves differently than X1X, you can keep it at 10-bit there.
Just be sure to select YUV420 and Standard/Limited color space when using PC Input
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Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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