2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 1162 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #34831 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 06:23 AM
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Do the 2017 models have a dimming feature? I'd seen that mentioned a long while back, but nothing recently. I don't think I've ever seen my B7 dim a static image...maybe mine is broken, or I don't know what to look for?

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post #34832 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Nation66 View Post
I've come up with a work around to the problem of the panel turning itself back on after it's been turned-off.
I went into Settings>General>Quick Start+ and I've turned it off. Since I did that the problem has gone away!
Forgot to add this in response to the Apple TV waking up your TV. Several people have had the same behavior since the update.

I haven't updated yet myself...

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post #34833 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 07:12 AM
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The latest LG update might have reset the CEC settings, please check if they are still set the way you like them.
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post #34834 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 07:26 AM
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I have CEC enabled. I actually switched Quickstart+ to Quickstart in the Service Menu (not sure what exactly the difference is) a while back to get Wake On Lan working. But that was long before this update.

Glad to know I'm not the only one :-)

But the dimming was there, I'm pretty sure of it.
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post #34835 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
In terms of resolution definitely. I can't really say that I see any more detail in my 65B7 than I did in my old 55 1080 TV and I do sit at just 6 feet four inches from the 4K. Unlees we go to much bigger screens I can't see any visual benefit in going to 8K but I fear that is where we are heading.
Well sooner or later 8K will be free as 4K is basically free so I am going to hold out for 16K so I can get some new eye implants.....
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post #34836 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 11:53 AM
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Well sooner or later 8K will be free as 4K is basically free so I am going to hold out for 16K so I can get some new eye implants.....
Exactly. Some delusional individuals are convinced they can see a difference between 1080 and 4K at normal viwieng distances on a normal domestic size screen.
They must think that they have the visual acuity of an eagle as seen in Planet Earth 2 - Mountaines. Sadly, they don't.

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post #34837 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 01:47 PM
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So you’re saying you can’t tell a difference between your 4K TV and your older 1080p set?
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post #34838 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TechNerd666 View Post
So you’re saying you can’t tell a difference between your 4K TV and your older 1080p set?
Assume that the eye can resolve 0.3 milliradian (1 arc minute). Then for a 65" 1920X1080 TV, you'd have to be closer than 8' (2.4m) to begin to resolve the pixels.

For a UHD TV, 4' (1.2m).

That's a bit naïve, I admit. In the good old days, I could tell the difference between an 8X10" photo print that was made from a negative taken by a 6X6 cm twin lens reflex camera rather than a much more expensive 35 mm camera (24X36 mm negative). Something to do with detail at the very limit of vision.
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post #34839 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
Exactly. Some delusional individuals are convinced they can see a difference between 1080 and 4K at normal viwieng distances on a normal domestic size screen.
They must think that they have the visual acuity of an eagle as seen in Planet Earth 2 - Mountaines. Sadly, they don't.
I sit about 6' from my 55C7 and I can 100% tell if a show is 1080p or 4k, especially for quality source such as PE2 you mentioned.

I don't claim to be able to pick out every pixel, but the overall sense of extra sharpness and detail of 4k is instantly apparent - and I don't find the difference to be subtle.

I'd be happy to take a double-blind test.

Having said that, I don't mind watching in 1080p, but will always go to 4k if it's available.

8k seems like overkill to me - I won't pay an extra cent for it unless screen sizes go over 110 inches or so.

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post #34840 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 07:16 PM
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^ This and I’m an old man. I’m skeptical about the benefits of 8k, but I’ll keep an open mind until I see it, that doesn’t mean the wallet will be open though as I’m pretty darn happy with both my LGs.

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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post #34841 of 36406 Old 01-30-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
^ This and I’m an old man. I’m skeptical about the benefits of 8k, but I’ll keep an open mind until I see it, that doesn’t mean the wallet will be open though as I’m pretty darn happy with both my LGs.
I think that it's too early to buy 8k. The current TVs that offer it do not, as far as I know, support HDMI 2.1, which means that they are stopgap solutions. They should be obsolete in a year or two.
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post #34842 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TechNerd666 View Post
So you’re saying you can’t tell a difference between your 4K TV and your older 1080p set?
That's exactly what I'm saying and medical science would back me up.

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post #34843 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I sit about 6' from my 55C7 and I can 100% tell if a show is 1080p or 4k, especially for quality source such as PE2 you mentioned.

I don't claim to be able to pick out every pixel, but the overall sense of extra sharpness and detail of 4k is instantly apparent - and I don't find the difference to be subtle.

I'd be happy to take a double-blind test.

Having said that, I don't mind watching in 1080p, but will always go to 4k if it's available.

8k seems like overkill to me - I won't pay an extra cent for it unless screen sizes go over 110 inches or so.
Sorry I may not have been clear. I am talking about 1080 on a 1080 display as opposed to 4K on a 4K display. I am NOT talking about 1080 upscaled to 4K on a 4K display compared to 4K on a 4K display.

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post #34844 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I sit about 6' from my 55C7 and I can 100% tell if a show is 1080p or 4k, especially for quality source such as PE2 you mentioned.

I don't claim to be able to pick out every pixel, but the overall sense of extra sharpness and detail of 4k is instantly apparent - and I don't find the difference to be subtle.

I'd be happy to take a double-blind test.

Having said that, I don't mind watching in 1080p, but will always go to 4k if it's available.

8k seems like overkill to me - I won't pay an extra cent for it unless screen sizes go over 110 inches or so.
Sorry I may not have been clear. I am talking about 1080 on a 1080 display as opposed to 4K on a 4K display. I am NOT talking about 1080 upscaled to 4K on a 4K display compared to 4K on a 4K display.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I have 1080 in the living room and 4k in the bedroom and the I can definitely see the difference.
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post #34845 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Token Majove View Post
So it appears I've lost the dreaded "early 2017 look-up table manufacturing flaw" lottery. TV did it's 2000 hour pixel refresh, and now I have a notable rectangle in the middle of my screen. Already in touch with LG, they've already sent photos off to their OLED engineers. Hoping to hear back soon. I can keep everyone posted with my interactions with them and the whole process if anyone is interested.
I've gone through the whole process this month. LG replaced my panel. The tech told me that they tried to fix the LUT for several TVs at first, but it always failed during the update and it bricked the TVs, so now they rather do a panel swap. I'm in France.
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post #34846 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Assume that the eye can resolve 0.3 milliradian (1 arc minute). Then for a 65" 1920X1080 TV, you'd have to be closer than 8' (2.4m) to begin to resolve the pixels.

For a UHD TV, 4' (1.2m).

That's a bit naïve, I admit. In the good old days, I could tell the difference between an 8X10" photo print that was made from a negative taken by a 6X6 cm twin lens reflex camera rather than a much more expensive 35 mm camera (24X36 mm negative). Something to do with detail at the very limit of vision.
..but what about when a pixel is emitting light, especially something contrasting adjacent pixels?
I wonder too if with 8K the color space will go above 1.2 billion colors and then with 8K pixel levels this might produce more natural looking images, or it might help too with the 1.2B colors.
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post #34847 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
Exactly. Some delusional individuals are convinced they can see a difference between 1080 and 4K at normal viwieng distances on a normal domestic size screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I sit about 6' from my 55C7 and I can 100% tell if a show is 1080p or 4k, especially for quality source such as PE2 you mentioned. I don't claim to be able to pick out every pixel, but the overall sense of extra sharpness and detail of 4k is instantly apparent - and I don't find the difference to be subtle.
My two cents . . .

Depending on the content source type, I can see a big difference - and I sit around 7 ft from my 65" C7. When I say "content source type", I'm referring to UHD/HDR/DV Blu-ray movies vs. 4K/HLG HDR DirecTV video content.

Generally, I really can't see much detail difference - if any - with UHD/HDR Blu-ray movies vs. HD Blu-ray - other than colors and contrast. But there's so many ways to master a movie - and sometimes the original media is less than 4K - which means it has to be upscaled at the studio anyway. Some media sources will take full advantage of 4K and others . . .

With DirecTV 4K/HLG HDR video content, the differences can be striking. It will be most noticeable with reflections; i.e. water, or the front of an electric guitar on a concert stage, with various spotlights hitting it. 1080P simply doesn't have the pixels to reproduce those subtleties.
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post #34848 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 08:41 AM
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I think that it's too early to buy 8k.
8K is so far into the future it shouldn't even be a "thing" now. Anyways I digress.

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post #34849 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 08:55 AM
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My two cents . . .

Depending on the content source type, I can see a big difference - and I sit around 7 ft from my 65" C7. When I say "content source type", I'm referring to UHD/HDR/DV Blu-ray movies vs. 4K/HLG HDR DirecTV video content.

Generally, I really can't see much detail difference - if any - with UHD/HDR Blu-ray movies vs. HD Blu-ray - other than colors and contrast. But there's so many ways to master a movie - and sometimes the original media is less than 4K - which means it has to be upscaled at the studio anyway. Some media sources will take full advantage of 4K and others . . .

With DirecTV 4K/HLG HDR video content, the differences can be striking. It will be most noticeable with reflections; i.e. water, or the front of an electric guitar on a concert stage, with various spotlights hitting it. 1080P simply doesn't have the pixels to reproduce those subtleties.
Hi sonoftumble
It may have been lost in the mists of time but I was only referring to the actual resolution (pixel count) making a difference. I agree that there are other factors that make a difference. For one a higher contrast image is interpreted by the brain as being sharper than a lower contrast image.
Also we have HDR images with 4K and also how individual manufacturers process the images. For instance some people bought 1080 Samsung TVs rather than Sony 1080 because they felt the Sony image was soft in comparison.
What I am referring to is the ability of the eye to resolve detail and that is , to a large degree, distance related. And I did state for normal size TVs at normal domestic viewing distances.
Here are a couple of articles which explain where I am coming from :
https://www.nbcnews.com/technology/e...ion-2d11691618

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmu.../#59b47534db75
With regard to the viewing distance vesus TV size table, how many of us sit just 4.3 feet away from our 65 inch OLEDS ? Very , very few I would bet.

This debate reminds me of all those who say they can hear a difference with Hi Res music. They are either hearing mastering differences or have bionic ear implants because our ears just dont enable us to hear frequencies much beyond 20kHz.
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post #34850 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 09:40 AM
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I've got 3,400 hours on my B7A now and in the last year got a TCL 6 series for a game room as well as a Sony X900F for a townhome I split time between.

I still love the OLED and it still has the best overall experience of the sets. One thing that I'm noticing, though, is that with more HDR content getting well mastered, the X900F is very close to the experience because I can see much more difference in highlights vs. resolution.

The complete grey uniformity of the X900F makes the slight banding on the OLED really stand out sometimes. The TCL is great for the price but doesn't hold a candle to either one of the others.

I hope that OLED can remove the banding issue completely, and if it can reduce the static image retention while upping brightness it will retain the top spot in my mind, but it's getting closer.

HDR is far more important to me than 8K will be.

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post #34851 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 10:53 AM
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My oled only has 750 hours on it but I'm going to buy an extended warranty before it hits 1 years old just in case.

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post #34852 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I sit about 6' from my 55C7 and I can 100% tell if a show is 1080p or 4k, especially for quality source such as PE2 you mentioned.

I don't claim to be able to pick out every pixel, but the overall sense of extra sharpness and detail of 4k is instantly apparent - and I don't find the difference to be subtle.

I'd be happy to take a double-blind test.

Having said that, I don't mind watching in 1080p, but will always go to 4k if it's available.

8k seems like overkill to me - I won't pay an extra cent for it unless screen sizes go over 110 inches or so.
The difference in viewing is coming from HDR and the wide color gamut. It really is not the resolution that can be noticed at a tv the size of 65 inch.

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post #34853 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
My two cents . . .

Depending on the content source type, I can see a big difference - and I sit around 7 ft from my 65" C7. When I say "content source type", I'm referring to UHD/HDR/DV Blu-ray movies vs. 4K/HLG HDR DirecTV video content.

Generally, I really can't see much detail difference - if any - with UHD/HDR Blu-ray movies vs. HD Blu-ray - other than colors and contrast. But there's so many ways to master a movie - and sometimes the original media is less than 4K - which means it has to be upscaled at the studio anyway. Some media sources will take full advantage of 4K and others . . .

With DirecTV 4K/HLG HDR video content, the differences can be striking. It will be most noticeable with reflections; i.e. water, or the front of an electric guitar on a concert stage, with various spotlights hitting it. 1080P simply doesn't have the pixels to reproduce those subtleties. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Hi sonoftumble [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
It may have been lost in the mists of time but I was only referring to the actual resolution (pixel count) making a difference. I agree that there are other factors that make a difference. For one a higher contrast image is interpreted by the brain as being sharper than a lower contrast image.
Also we have HDR images with 4K and also how individual manufacturers process the images. For instance some people bought 1080 Samsung TVs rather than Sony 1080 because they felt the Sony image was soft in comparison.
What I am referring to is the ability of the eye to resolve detail and that is , to a large degree, distance related. And I did state for normal size TVs at normal domestic viewing distances.
Here are a couple of articles which explain where I am coming from :
https://www.nbcnews.com/technology/e...ion-2d11691618

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmu.../#59b47534db75
With regard to the viewing distance vesus TV size table, how many of us sit just 4.3 feet away from our 65 inch OLEDS ? Very , very few I would bet.

This debate reminds me of all those who say they can hear a difference with Hi Res music. They are either hearing mastering differences or have bionic ear implants because our ears just dont enable us to hear frequencies much beyond 20kHz.
Why single out resolution though? 4K content these days is meant to be viewed in combination with HDR/Dolby Vision Combine it with a new display tech like OLED and the difference is obvious.

However 4K content can still be hard to find. So I agree that’s it may be hard to see a real difference in quality if you’ve watch a lot of older content or basic cable.
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post #34854 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 03:40 PM
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This debate reminds me of all those who say they can hear a difference with Hi Res music. They are either hearing mastering differences or have bionic ear implants because our ears just dont enable us to hear frequencies much beyond 20kHz.
I guess I must be an eagle with bionic ears then because I can see the difference between 1080p and 4k, and also prefer hi-res music.

I agree that mastering differences make a massive difference though, and a well-mastered CD quality recording is much better than a crappy master in hi-res.

I'm perfectly satisfied if I can get 44.1 or 48kHz 24bit audio. I think I can hear a difference from 44.1kHz 16bit - but because I suspect most of the difference is due to mastering - I'm much less confident about that than a 1080p-4k resolution increase, which is instantly obvious to me.

I don't see why there'd be a difference between a native 1080p display and 1080p upscaled on a 4k display, the upscaling should be able to happen perfectly with 4 pixels acting as one.

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post #34855 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TexaClone View Post
I still love the OLED and it still has the best overall experience of the sets. One thing that I'm noticing, though, is that with more HDR content getting well mastered, the X900F is very close to the experience because I can see much more difference in highlights vs. resolution.
Would you mind explaining this statement a bit more? With the infinite contrast ratio of the OLED, wouldn't it be better for highlights, in a darkened room?

Quote:
The complete grey uniformity of the X900F makes the slight banding on the OLED really stand out sometimes. The TCL is great for the price but doesn't hold a candle to either one of the others.
Isn't the gray uniformity of the OLED much better than the Sony? see https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/comp...omparison_1648

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HDR is far more important to me than 8K will be.
100% agree.

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The difference in viewing is coming from HDR and the wide color gamut. It really is not the resolution that can be noticed at a tv the size of 65 inch.
Sorry, I disagree. I have 4k SDR content and it definitely appears clearer than 1080p SDR content.

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post #34856 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
Would you mind explaining this statement a bit more? With the infinite contrast ratio of the OLED, wouldn't it be better for highlights, in a darkened room?



Isn't the gray uniformity of the OLED much better than the Sony? see https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/comp...omparison_1648



100% agree.



Sorry, I disagree. I have 4k SDR content and it definitely appears clearer than 1080p SDR content.
No problem. What I like about the X900F is the sheer brightness difference. Like, a window shade flying open or a flash light popping around a corner. The Sony has excellent black levels for an LCD and the FALD is really bright compared to the OLED. It can be startling, whereas the contrast is certainly amazing on the B7A, so don't get me wrong. And shadow detail is unmatched, but 'startled' when you should be is more of what you get with the Sony. I just personally find that more immersive.

For the gray uniformity, all I can say is that my Sony set is absolutely spot on. The only thing I can find on it are the four corners and that doesn't bug me. The OLED has banding. I went through three or four screens and finally settled on this one. It doesn't rear it's head often, but it's there in dark scenes. The Sony has none in my case. No DSE, no banding. White is white and 20% is 20%. I will probably never find a screen this good again. I've had Vizio Ps, the TCL(of which I got a great one) etc and this X900F was so good I bought my own open box buy back. I had exchanged it in the hopes of being satisfied with a much cheaper P series and couldn't take the DSE on 3 of them. They still had the X900F so I bought my own open box buy back. It was that good.

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post #34857 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
It looks like that link was supposed to go to my settings, but it didn't seem to land in the right spot.

Click on the link in my signature below to see my settings. Don't let the original posting date throw you off, as it's been kept current.



EDIT: When I tried the link a second time it landed correctly. So . . . nevermind. lol
sonoftumble ...i had my c8 calibrated oled light is 36 can i move it to 40 or will it change the calibration if not how high can i go
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post #34858 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 06:04 PM
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Upscaled content is not going to be as clear as 4k on a given set and there's virtually no way to compare processor/panel/input material from one 1080 set to a 4k set especially when you start adding in the different technologies from Plasma to different LCD technologies and the advancement in processing. Then there's the added in difference of HDR content into the equation.



I'll stick to the science and assume there's little difference to be seen.
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post #34859 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Upscaled content is not going to be as clear as 4k on a given set
I was talking about 1080p content viewed on a 1080p screen versus the same 1080p content viewed on a 4k screen.

I would think they would be almost identical from a resolution standpoint as the 4k screen should losslessly upscale every pixel in the source to a four pixel cube on the display.

Quote:
and there's virtually no way to compare processor/panel/input material from one 1080 set to a 4k set especially when you start adding in the different technologies from Plasma to different LCD technologies and the advancement in processing. Then there's the added in difference of HDR content into the equation.

I'll stick to the science and assume there's little difference to be seen.
The original contention was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
Exactly. Some delusional individuals are convinced they can see a difference between 1080 and 4K at normal viwieng distances on a normal domestic size screen.
They must think that they have the visual acuity of an eagle as seen in Planet Earth 2 - Mountaines. Sadly, they don't.
I assumed alexbarbel meant the difference between 1080p and 4k content, both displayed on a 4k screen.

Not sure what science you mean but myself and others have said that they can see the difference in resolution between those two.

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post #34860 of 36406 Old 01-31-2019, 09:43 PM
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I'm seeing posts on Reddit about only mounting the B7/C7 (and B8/C8) TVs parallel to the wall due to the chance of slightly bending the panel...can anyone confirm this is the case? Mine has been a very SLIGHT angle down since I got it...I can't see anything with my naked eye...

Any truth here?

Josh
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