2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 1196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35851 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post
Glad to help - we were all "NEWBIE'S" at one time - yes takes a while to download - try this link for instructions


https://www.lg.com/us/support/software-firmware-drivers select a product - TV's /OLED / pick the 1st one (doesn't matter) and look at TV software update guide

Good luck!
thank you!! have it on the usb drive and will give it a shot this afternoon! we're SURE nothing can go wrong correct?! lol and will all my settings stay the same, i am using softoftumble and the picture looks great so want to make sure it stays.

is the DV noticeably better after the update? i am really looking forward to this because i watch so much netflix with DV. thanks again!!
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post #35852 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bumrush View Post
Which preset are you using? I was using SonofTumble's DV profile but after months of getting frustrated with a lack of pop, switched to a modified Cinema Home setting which was significantly brighter.



Does the updated DV firmware improve the "cinema" setting?


I use P40L0’s settings which are similar to Sonoftumble’s and both use the latest DV config file which I had to install manually. I personally like DV Cinema Custom as I prefer more natural contrast and colors with a more subtle but noticeable luminance. I find DV Cinema Home to be too bright.


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post #35853 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bumrush View Post
Which preset are you using? I was using SonofTumble's DV profile but after months of getting frustrated with a lack of pop, switched to a modified Cinema Home setting which was significantly brighter.

Does the updated DV firmware improve the "cinema" setting?

Just a personal opinion, POP is overrated. I can not remember visiting anytime visiting about 8 of our national parks, some of the most spectacular scenery on the planet, where I ever thought the view had "POP" (whatever that is???).


It is all about what each person looks for, of course. I look for a natural presentation that has some hope of coming close to what I would see were I looking at the scene in real life.


POP, if I interpret what you mean when you say that, is not natural. It is artificial. .This is the reason that I really like the Sonoftumble, DV cal and his calibrations for the rest of my content settings.
I don't get distracted by over emphasized anything. It just looks very balanced, neutral, and real (or as close to real as any TV I have seen can get). After all, the settings are designed to calibrate the display to established standards for making us perceive real color and brightness levels... Anything more or less (POP), is not that, to me anyway.
No value judgements for or against what you are looking for, just my assessment. POP is real overrated. Though I have seen many others post that seem to feel it is a worthy pursuit. To each their own... obviously. Just an observation.


(BTW, to define terms going forward, what does "POP" mean to you???)
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post #35854 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Robertczek View Post
thank you!! have it on the usb drive and will give it a shot this afternoon! we're SURE nothing can go wrong correct?! lol and will all my settings stay the same, i am using softoftumble and the picture looks great so want to make sure it stays.

is the DV noticeably better after the update? i am really looking forward to this because i watch so much netflix with DV. thanks again!!
Im also wondering about this, if i make the new firmware update will i keep softoftumble Dolby Vision file and settings?
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post #35855 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Howlinskogge View Post
Im also wondering about this, if i make the new firmware update will i keep softoftumble Dolby Vision file and settings?
All of the settings, and the DV calibration file remain in place and unchanged.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #35856 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 10:24 PM
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I was watching a Dolby Vision disc via my Oppo 203 tonight. It’s in cinema user mode. I tried bumping OLED light as room was well lit but while number changed it had zero effect on picture. I’ve done this when streaming dv via Apple TV without issue but never with Oppo as source. Is it possible that OLED value gets locked with disc based Dolby Vison?

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post #35857 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ppasteur View Post
Just a personal opinion, POP is overrated. I can not remember visiting anytime visiting about 8 of our national parks, some of the most spectacular scenery on the planet, where I ever thought the view had "POP" (whatever that is???).


It is all about what each person looks for, of course. I look for a natural presentation that has some hope of coming close to what I would see were I looking at the scene in real life.


POP, if I interpret what you mean when you say that, is not natural. It is artificial. .This is the reason that I really like the Sonoftumble, DV cal and his calibrations for the rest of my content settings.
I don't get distracted by over emphasized anything. It just looks very balanced, neutral, and real (or as close to real as any TV I have seen can get). After all, the settings are designed to calibrate the display to established standards for making us perceive real color and brightness levels... Anything more or less (POP), is not that, to me anyway.
No value judgements for or against what you are looking for, just my assessment. POP is real overrated. Though I have seen many others post that seem to feel it is a worthy pursuit. To each their own... obviously. Just an observation.


(BTW, to define terms going forward, what does "POP" mean to you???)
To me it just seems too dark even in a pitch black room. Details seem crushed.... I’ve tested both w/o the calibrated settings and with Sons DV file calibrated and noticed the same thing. Highlights are more visible with cinema home
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post #35858 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppasteur View Post
Just a personal opinion, POP is overrated. I can not remember visiting anytime visiting about 8 of our national parks, some of the most spectacular scenery on the planet, where I ever thought the view had "POP" (whatever that is???).


It is all about what each person looks for, of course. I look for a natural presentation that has some hope of coming close to what I would see were I looking at the scene in real life.


POP, if I interpret what you mean when you say that, is not natural. It is artificial. .This is the reason that I really like the Sonoftumble, DV cal and his calibrations for the rest of my content settings.
I don't get distracted by over emphasized anything. It just looks very balanced, neutral, and real (or as close to real as any TV I have seen can get). After all, the settings are designed to calibrate the display to established standards for making us perceive real color and brightness levels... Anything more or less (POP), is not that, to me anyway.
No value judgements for or against what you are looking for, just my assessment. POP is real overrated. Though I have seen many others post that seem to feel it is a worthy pursuit. To each their own... obviously. Just an observation.


(BTW, to define terms going forward, what does "POP" mean to you???)
Great summary! The intent of the calibration is to come as close as possible to matching the picture dynamics as seen by the director and colorist on the $35K mastering monitors used in the studios. The same software and measuring equipment is used to calibrate those panels as well as my C7. White balance and color accuracy is crucial. The HDR metadata ( whether HDR10/HLG or DV ) simply tells the TV where to provide the spectral highlights, and under certain circumstances you may see some "pop" if there is enough contrast in the original source material.

Here's a good DV reference video which has natural pop using my settings and the DV Cinema (User) picture mode: Launch Netflix ( internal app or AppleTV 4K - supports DV ) and play Chef's Table/Volume 3/Ivan Orkin - jump to the 11:35 time mark. You will see a night scene of downtown Tokyo which looks spectacular. These are natural, unembellished spectral highlights as the director or colorist intended. There is plenty of "pop".

The problem with "pop", and one of the reasons why I was not a fan of HDR when it first arrived in consumer displays: It reminds me of the "Vivid" picture mode. Cinema (Home) is the "Vivid" of DV.
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LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #35859 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
I was watching a Dolby Vision disc via my Oppo 203 tonight. It’s in cinema user mode. I tried bumping OLED light as room was well lit but while number changed it had zero effect on picture. I’ve done this when streaming dv via Apple TV without issue but never with Oppo as source. Is it possible that OLED value gets locked with disc based Dolby Vison?
It's due to tone mapping. Content has been mastered at 4,000 - 10,000 nits, but the 7 series OLED's peak at approx. 700 nits. You just can't get it any brighter no matter how high you crank the OLED Light.
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LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #35860 of 36120 Old 07-17-2019, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppasteur View Post
Just a personal opinion, POP is overrated. I can not remember visiting anytime visiting about 8 of our national parks, some of the most spectacular scenery on the planet, where I ever thought the view had "POP" (whatever that is???).


It is all about what each person looks for, of course. I look for a natural presentation that has some hope of coming close to what I would see were I looking at the scene in real life.


POP, if I interpret what you mean when you say that, is not natural. It is artificial. .This is the reason that I really like the Sonoftumble, DV cal and his calibrations for the rest of my content settings.
I don't get distracted by over emphasized anything. It just looks very balanced, neutral, and real (or as close to real as any TV I have seen can get). After all, the settings are designed to calibrate the display to established standards for making us perceive real color and brightness levels... Anything more or less (POP), is not that, to me anyway.
No value judgements for or against what you are looking for, just my assessment. POP is real overrated. Though I have seen many others post that seem to feel it is a worthy pursuit. To each their own... obviously. Just an observation.


(BTW, to define terms going forward, what does "POP" mean to you???)
POP is an acronym for Pokes Out Pupils.
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post #35861 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 12:15 AM
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Quick question about returning to original DV file

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
It's due to tone mapping. Content has been mastered at 4,000 - 10,000 nits, but the 7 series OLED's peak at approx. 700 nits. You just can't get it any brighter no matter how high you crank the OLED Light.
Hi sonoftumble and thanks a to for sharing your calibration data (Which I use and enjoy)

one question regarding DV original file. You sent me long ago the DV file that returns to the original file and I can't find it.

How do I load back the original file in case I need it back?

Thanks
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post #35862 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
It's due to tone mapping. Content has been mastered at 4,000 - 10,000 nits, but the 7 series OLED's peak at approx. 700 nits. You just can't get it any brighter no matter how high you crank the OLED Light.
Interesting. At the same time if I dropped it to 0 it didn’t get any darker either. Does that still make sense?

Also does that mean DV content such as on Netflix is mastered at a lower peak brightness?

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post #35863 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Bumrush View Post
To me it just seems too dark even in a pitch black room. Details seem crushed.... I’ve tested both w/o the calibrated settings and with Sons DV file calibrated and noticed the same thing. Highlights are more visible with cinema home

Cinema is the most accurate DV mode. What you're seeing as "dim" is how the content creator intended you to see the film/show (until the point where peak brightness rolls off at 700 nits).


Highlights may be brighter with cinema home, but it's at the expense of losing detail.
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post #35864 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Great summary! The intent of the calibration is to come as close as possible to matching the picture dynamics as seen by the director and colorist on the $35K mastering monitors used in the studios. The same software and measuring equipment is used to calibrate those panels as well as my C7. White balance and color accuracy is crucial. The HDR metadata ( whether HDR10/HLG or DV ) simply tells the TV where to provide the spectral highlights, and under certain circumstances you may see some "pop" if there is enough contrast in the original source material.

Here's a good DV reference video which has natural pop using my settings and the DV Cinema (User) picture mode: Launch Netflix ( internal app or AppleTV 4K - supports DV ) and play Chef's Table/Volume 3/Ivan Orkin - jump to the 11:35 time mark. You will see a night scene of downtown Tokyo which looks spectacular. These are natural, unembellished spectral highlights as the director or colorist intended. There is plenty of "pop".

The problem with "pop", and one of the reasons why I was not a fan of HDR when it first arrived in consumer displays: It reminds me of the "Vivid" picture mode. Cinema (Home) is the "Vivid" of DV.
Thanks Son.. And don't get me wrong, I love everything you've done.. I've been using your SD settings but as stated even on my other OLED I tested Cinema (User) without your config and saw the same issue.

I'll give you an example. You're watching DV content on the native Netflix app.. It's a large room with desks, paintings on the wall and is just busy with stuff. In Cinema (User) with both your calibrations and the out of the box LG settings, those highlights on the wall or on the floor are difficult to discern and are dark and drab. Switch over to DV Cinema Home and all of sudden you can make out the more distant objects or furniture in the room.

Does that make sense?

I simply prefer how cinema home looks.. It makes content more enjoyable. Maybe this is just a matter of preference.
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post #35865 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Viper2449 View Post
Hi sonoftumble and thanks a to for sharing your calibration data (Which I use and enjoy)

one question regarding DV original file. You sent me long ago the DV file that returns to the original file and I can't find it.

How do I load back the original file in case I need it back?

Thanks
You don't need the reset file anymore. For example, with the newer firmware - if you try to install the most recent file I created - the TV will prompt you to either install the file or revert to the factory version.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #35866 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Interesting. At the same time if I dropped it to 0 it didn’t get any darker either. Does that still make sense?

Also does that mean DV content such as on Netflix is mastered at a lower peak brightness?
The range of the OLED light setting is restricted on purpose. Some of this has to do with the aforementioned tone mapping, and the other is to make sure you don't fry your OLED's. So there is very little change from zero to 100. It's a bit misleading - especially compared to SDR picture modes.

Netflix has their own mastering guidelines. I believe the max peak is 2,000 nits.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #35867 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumrush View Post
Thanks Son.. And don't get me wrong, I love everything you've done.. I've been using your SD settings but as stated even on my other OLED I tested Cinema (User) without your config and saw the same issue.

I'll give you an example. You're watching DV content on the native Netflix app.. It's a large room with desks, paintings on the wall and is just busy with stuff. In Cinema (User) with both your calibrations and the out of the box LG settings, those highlights on the wall or on the floor are difficult to discern and are dark and drab. Switch over to DV Cinema Home and all of sudden you can make out the more distant objects or furniture in the room.

Does that make sense?

I simply prefer how cinema home looks.. It makes content more enjoyable. Maybe this is just a matter of preference.
Makes total sense and you should watch your TV as you see fit. As long as you are aware that you are sacrificing accuracy by going with Cinema (Home). The other issue is the fact that OLED's crush dark detail. The only way to get away from that is to invest in a super bright LCD FALD LED backlit panel. Something like the Sony Z9 or the new Vizio QPX. These sets have anywhere from 2,700 to 4,000 nits and 400 to 600 FALD zones - so blooming is minimized to almost undetectable levels. Of course they will never have pure blacks, and unlimited contrast. Everything is a trade-off. First world problems! lol
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VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #35868 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 11:27 AM
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You don't need the reset file anymore. For example, with the newer firmware - if you try to install the most recent file I created - the TV will prompt you to either install the file or revert to the factory version.
Thanks for the clarification.
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post #35869 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 12:48 PM
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Stranger Things 3 in DV is outstanding. Netflix is going all out to appeal to enthusiasts. The best DV content I’ve seen on my 65B7. Brighter than anything I’ve seen and the pitch black scenes with Eleven are stunning.
The use of lighting showcases the set and the near blacks are perfect and band free.

Simply amazing
Even if you guys don't watch or like Stranger Things, do yourself a favour and fire up Stranger Things, season 3, episode 3, and start watching around 1:30. It's the blacks. This is why you bought an OLED.
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post #35870 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 01:49 PM
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Updated through USB today and since then Dolby Vision doesn't launch any more through Netflix. Dolby Vision titles are staying in SDR mode.

Any ideas how to fix this?
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post #35871 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 02:47 PM
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Ugh...my TV DEFINITELY ran a cycle and totally screwed up my panel...was absolutely NOT noticing any banding and now banding is back in force!

Josh
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post #35872 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 04:29 PM
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Ugh...my TV DEFINITELY ran a cycle and totally screwed up my panel...was absolutely NOT noticing any banding and now banding is back in force!
Was that at 2000 hours?

:-( I feel sorry for you. Hopeless

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post #35873 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 06:00 PM
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Was that at 2000 hours?

:-( I feel sorry for you. Hopeless
looks like ~1800 hours....but something definitely changed very recently - would the be 2000 hour cycle run early based on date/duration and not time watched?

Josh
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post #35874 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 06:30 PM
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looks like ~1800 hours....but something definitely changed very recently - would the be 2000 hour cycle run early based on date/duration and not time watched?


The cycle runs at 2k hours usually not before. If it is as bad as you make it could call LG for warranty support.
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post #35875 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 06:32 PM
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The cycle runs at 2k hours usually not before. If it is as bad as you make it could call LG for warranty support.
Ehh....it was just a pretty drastic change that I noticed - it might have been the content I was watching

Josh
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post #35876 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The range of the OLED light setting is restricted on purpose. Some of this has to do with the aforementioned tone mapping, and the other is to make sure you don't fry your OLED's. So there is very little change from zero to 100. It's a bit misleading - especially compared to SDR picture modes.

Netflix has their own mastering guidelines. I believe the max peak is 2,000 nits.
So turns out this was a different issue. Oppo 203 (with more recent firmware) has 2 Dolby Vision modes - the Sony compatible mode were most processing is done at the player level and the standard mode were most processing done by TV. It was in auto mode but must have been defaulting to the Sony compatible mode. It works fine but seems to restrict controls on the TV end. When I manually switched Dolby Vision to the TV mode I regained control of OLED light and it behaved as I'm used to. So in brighter settings I can now bump OLED light a bit knowing this comes at the expense of some accuracy.
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post #35877 of 36120 Old 07-18-2019, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jabolino View Post
Updated through USB today and since then Dolby Vision doesn't launch any more through Netflix. Dolby Vision titles are staying in SDR mode.

Any ideas how to fix this?
Sorry, I was not able to duplicate the problem. Also updated via USB this evening and launched built-in Netflix. It played Dolby Vision content without issues.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #35878 of 36120 Old 07-19-2019, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Bumrush View Post
There is grain but it's hardly noticeable.

I'm using the internal app, running off the native Netflix app.

One thing to note is that my DV is set to Cinema (HOME) as opposed to Cinema (User). The standard cinema setting is too dark, even in a darkened room. Backlight set to 50.
I also find that for DV Cinema (Home) is better (brighter) than Cinema (User) despite me having followed J Tumbles Cinema (User)settings to the letter. Very strange as looking at the individual values for OLED Light and Brightness etc. this seems to be the wrong way round??
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post #35879 of 36120 Old 07-19-2019, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by philphluter View Post
I also find that for DV Cinema (Home) is better (brighter) than Cinema (User) despite me having followed J Tumbles Cinema (User)settings to the letter. Very strange as looking at the individual values for OLED Light and Brightness etc. this seems to be the wrong way round??
I have a set from Value Electronics and calibrated by John and yes Home is brighter than user.

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post #35880 of 36120 Old 07-19-2019, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by philphluter View Post
I also find that for DV Cinema (Home) is better (brighter) than Cinema (User) despite me having followed J Tumbles Cinema (User)settings to the letter. Very strange as looking at the individual values for OLED Light and Brightness etc. this seems to be the wrong way round??
It's all industry standard words dating way, way back.
Brightness = black level
Contrast = white level
OLED light = panel background light level (Sony is about the only one that calls this "brightness")

For SDR content you can set brightness and contrast as needed to produce the best detail with slides which contain a range of black and white levels.

For HDR and DV the source sends that info to the TV so the TV just needs to be set at the optimum point to receive that input, which on the 7's is contrast 100, brightness 50.
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