2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 165 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4921 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
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Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
Would my eyes get used to it? I'm considering getting a B7 and taking back my Vizio P 65.
Only you can say. I am not an LCD person and their motion does nothing for me so I went from Plasma directly to OLED.

Last night I watched Star Wars the Force Awakens with DJ=2 and thoroughly enjoyed the film.

- Rich
What's DJ=2?
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post #4922 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 08:39 AM
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New owner, got mine setup last night. I didn't run any 5% slides for fear of seeing something that can't be unseen like others, but I didn't need to. When watching Westworld in a dark scene, I saw the tell-tale darker band just right of center (65 inch).

I see others saying doing a manual compensation cycle or running checkered slides. Is that something that can be done via the TV's setup, or are you getting these things on Youtube? Thanks!
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post #4923 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Cozmo85 View Post
Seriously looking at these sets, the 65" c7 specifically. Anyone upgrade form a Samsung F8500 plasma? Impressions?
Many, Many plasma owners have updated, in the 65" class you have two choices for a plasma owner, any OLED and the Sony XBR-65Z9D.....That's about all you would be happy with in 65" coming from a plasma. If you where looking at bigger, I would throw in XBR-75X940E and XBR-75Z9D as well.
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post #4924 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Only you can say. I am not an LCD person and their motion does nothing for me so I went from Plasma directly to OLED.

Last night I watched Star Wars the Force Awakens with DJ=2 and thoroughly enjoyed the film.

- Rich


Have you watched planet earth 2? And if so how does the tv handle snow scenes on terms of brightness?


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post #4925 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 09:22 AM
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Have you watched planet earth 2? And if so how does the tv handle snow scenes on terms of brightness?


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Nope. I watched Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them UHD this weekend and for that title, I preferred DJ=3; no artifacts were observed.


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post #4926 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 09:23 AM
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Hey @RichB , what are your thoughts of the C7 coming from a B6? I know near black is supposed to be improved once again, and of course DV calibration is there. For me moving from the EF9500 to the E6 was pretty noticeable in the cleanliness of the image, I assume there is a slight improvement there.

As far as motion, seems you are still rolling with Dj 2 or so, which is no problem for me, it is how I use the E6.

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post #4927 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 09:39 AM
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I’ve had my LG 55’ B7 for a month now and I’m very happy with it. I’ve been waiting 12 years for OLED TVs to finally be mainstream.

I wasn’t expecting how much tinkering needed to be done with the settings. The OOTB modes aren’t really very good. It took quite a bit of time to get the settings right.

In the end I used “HDR Effect” for all my Non-HDR content. I had my cable on “Cinema” mode and calibrated from there because HDR Effect didn’t seem to do as much at lower resolution content, but for consistency sake I switched it.

Let me say HD Effect is actually legit…. I’m used to that kind of tech being all bluster, but it actually makes most picture look a lot better. I primarily use an X-800 4K blu ray player and a PS4 pro. Most of the Blu Rays I watch aren’t in 4K yet (Mainly Pixar) so that mode really really helps. I also like the Color Temperature slider over the pre canned options.

For my settings I use OLED Light 95, Contrast 100, Brightness 51, Sharpness 10, Color 50, Tint 0. Color temperature W15. This was the big setting that took me forever to like. I didn’t like anything past neutral because “Warm1” always looked wrong, with the slider on some of the settings I found W10-15 to be just right. You actually get the better colors but whites don’t go Beige on you.

All post processing mumbo jumbo is off, with the exception of my cable box with Noise Reduction set to auto. Most channels are 1080i and I watch lots of 90s shows through CraveTV which is 480P.

My motion is currently De-Judder 4 De-Blur 10. I have to still play around with the De-Judder settings. I can’t stand 24FPS look. I know some purists think it’s the “Right” way to watch movies but I’m not a fan. I have to try and look really closely to see how much artifacting I get. On Pixar movies I get none and it looks quite nice, I want to watch some other content to see if I can get any better settings. I might leave it at 4 for my X-800 and keep it at 0 on my PS4-Pro.

Fantastic TV. It’s everything I expected OLED to be. I look forward to content catching up with the TV now. More 4K Blue Rays released, more Dolby Vision support, hopefully Cable starts to catch up.
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post #4928 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Hey @RichB , what are your thoughts of the C7 coming from a B6? I know near black is supposed to be improved once again, and of course DV calibration is there. For me moving from the EF9500 to the E6 was pretty noticeable in the cleanliness of the image, I assume there is a slight improvement there.

As far as motion, seems you are still rolling with Dj 2 or so, which is no problem for me, it is how I use the E6.
For motion, DJ=2 or 3 works great for me. I have not seen artifacts from these settings and I hope to keep it that way

C7 Pros:
  • Better Color tracking makes it easier to calibrate has improved skin tones (Big deal for me)
  • DJ=2 no longer has micro-stutters (this may have been a B6 issues only)
  • Black level detail is improved (compressed content has much less blocking)
  • Reduced ABL makes SDR seem much brighter (Even with OLED 60, I don't see ABL on content. I did not think this was a big deal, but is really is great)
  • Reduced red tint from anti-glare coating
  • Cinema User mode has gray-scale 2 and 20 point adjustments (limited and inferior tone-mapping cancel this out)
  • No Vignetting or blobs (darker areas)

C7 Cons:
  • My C7 has banding that can be seen between 10 and 20%. (At 220+ hours, I am still hoping for improvement)
  • HDR Cinema mode has aggressive tone-mapping removing all the pop. Active HDR (Dynamic Contrast = Low,) is MUST to bring back some, not all of the HDR pop)
  • HDR Standard Mode seems to track the EOTF and has much more HDR Pop but no white balance controls

Other comments:

D-Nice has stated the Sony has the best processing, and I suspect they have a dynamic tone-mapping that works better than the C7 Cinema modes. LG should really have a tone-mapping option that preserves/tracks EOTF to least 500 nits. The LG Cinema modes tone-mapping without dynamic contrast engaged is unwatchable; low level detail is crushed, HDR pop is destroyed. Some tweaks to Cinema most could correct these issues. LG: are you listening
HDR Standard blows out high-nit highlights but I prefer it for most sources.

The C7 was a great upgrade and I hope the tone-mapping gets improved. IMO, this is an unforced error.
Streaks are the panel lottery and may still improve over time.

- Rich
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post #4929 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 09:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
  • My C7 has banding that can be seen between 10 and 20%. (At 220+ hours, I am still hoping for improvement)
  • HDR Cinema mode has aggressive tone-mapping removing all the pop. Active HDR (Dynamic Contrast = Low,) is MUST to bring back some, not all of the HDR pop)
  • HDR Standard Mode seems to track the EOTF and has much more HDR Pop but no white balance controls


- Rich
You think your banding has improved since you first got it?

I'm at right around 200 horus on my B7 and I'm still up in the air over whether or not i can actually notice any improvement of my goal post bands... What I can say for sure is that I definitely do notice it in content and they don't just show up in slides.
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post #4930 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 09:49 AM
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I have a completely different opinion:

1) The OLED have high enough peak brightness to do great HDR gaming, in the HDR standard mode, the picture is almost too bright and can easily keep up with the current LCDs.

2) Why would LG only want to prevent IR in HDR game mode by making the mode darker, but not in the SDR game mode. This makes no sense to me.

3) I am now playing in the HDR standard mode with the TruMotion function switched off and I can not determine an input lag, but this can also be my age. ;-)
1) As I used the OLED more and more I found it not bright enough more and more as I got accustomed to the brightness but yes they are quite bright just not like a good LCD especially on high APL scenes. Also, it's not just about brightness perceived, the tone mapping in Horizon is clipping some details in HDR Standard to make it do the brighter highlights. When you watch the sunrise in the day on the OLED and then on a 940E LCD, you see way more details in the sunrise and clouds and brighter highlight of the sun at the same time on the 940E because of the tone mapping and better peak brightness. The HDR game mode on OLED keep more details but is less bright. It's compromises but still good in HDR Standard. In dark scenes with highlights the OLED is awesome though.

2) Because in HDR the oled light and contrast is necessarily at 100 on both but yes you are also right that it may very well not be that, it was just a guess.

3) Good for you!
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post #4931 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 10:00 AM
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Thanks Rich, odd how things vary from year to year.

I'm looking hard at what to do next, now that DV calibration is coming, that is the last puzzle piece for me. I mean my E6 is an outstanding set, granted near black could be better.

I've been studying the C7, the ZD9 and the A1E, and I can't get over the price differential.
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post #4932 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 11:15 AM
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As a just recent lurker, this was essentially my path too.

I debated between 55" vs. 65", and asked if I should wait six months and save up for the bigger one. A guy answered simply "Save up." And he is right!! I know the people here are experts but I'm surprised if there is greater enthusiasm for the 55" model because of what experts see as imperfections in the 65" model. I will admit I'm not an expert, maybe just extremely fortunate with the 5/17 build date I got, but everybody here is stunned with the quality of the picture. And, even though I'm not the expert, I knew a plasma TV several years ago was the best quality, and I can say it isn't really even close. You really don't realize how important blacks are until you see the incredible blacks from the OLED TV.

I debated between the Sony XBR65A1E and the LG, and ultimately chose the LG. While price factored into it, I think even at the same price I would pick the OLED65C7P. I know the Sony has a purported new way of delivering the sound, but ultimately I decided it was the picture that really counted. There are those who will say Sony has a better picture too, and I can't disparage their opinion, but for one scene in one DVD for two seconds that didn't have a great influence in my opinion. And yes, I'm sure it is more important that just two seconds of imperfect picture one vs. the other, but overall, with everything about picture quality, lag, and the attempt to avoid burn-in, I chose the LG.

Now, I too want to get a good deal, and researched many places. I relied on people from this forum who stated without exception that Cleveland Plasma (Chris) was the place to get it from. My experience was 100% positive. There was a mix-up with my address, as I don't understand why a shipper would accept or mark an address that didn't exist, then refuse to correct it. A quick email to Chris, and literally within minutes he wrote back that everything was taken care of. Then the shipper also refused to allow me to set up a time for delivery, apparently thinking that Chris knew my schedule a week in advance and should have set it up. So it came when I wasn't here. I told people here, I don't care if it is just a small indentation in the box, mark it on the delivery sheet, as Chris said to do. I got home, and with the logic that is here, I was told that yes, the outer box had a gigantic tear in it, as well as a puncture hole, but the "box" for the TV wasn't damaged. Well, when I opened the outer box, there was indeed a puncture into the LG box. I was dreading the next step, but, as I noticed, the outer box was a small distance from the inner box, due to corner protectors packaged between the two boxes. So because Chris makes sure it is shipped securely and safely, with a huge "Fragile" sticker that was also ignored by the shipper, the TV did indeed make it here safely.

Getting it put up on the wall mount was another adventure, even at the relatively light 50 lbs or so my wife could not lift it high enough. So it required an emergency call to my father-in-law to come by ASAP, as I was holding it merely inserted into the stand and hoping to finish up soon. He came by quickly, and within a few minutes it was secured in the wall mount.

There has been a question about if the quality of the electricity could be a factor in 65" TV problems. I don't know if it could be or not, mostly I see voltage here I consider too high as opposed to too low, but I have it on an APC Smart UPS to give an added bit of protection.

I'm hoping the post isn't too long, but this TV is definitely one to be enthusiastic about.
Tremendous.

I chose to go through Chris as well. Super excited.
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post #4933 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
You think your banding has improved since you first got it?

I'm at right around 200 horus on my B7 and I'm still up in the air over whether or not i can actually notice any improvement of my goal post bands... What I can say for sure is that I definitely do notice it in content and they don't just show up in slides.
I have 295 hours on the panel now and the bars are there and reduced a bit. I am not sure if panel clear has any effect at this point.
I like to do them the night before calibrating. My last calibration was a 50 hours and I plan to try again soon.

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Last edited by RichB; 07-10-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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post #4934 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I have 295 hours on the panel now and the bars are there and reduced a bit. I am not sure if panel clear has any effect at this point.
I like to do them the night before calibrating. My last calibration was a 50 hours and I plan to try again soon.


- Rich
I still don't understand why HDR Standard has no WB controls. I mean that is a complete step back from last year.

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post #4935 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffG02 View Post
New owner, got mine setup last night. I didn't run any 5% slides for fear of seeing something that can't be unseen like others, but I didn't need to. When watching Westworld in a dark scene, I saw the tell-tale darker band just right of center (65 inch).

I see others saying doing a manual compensation cycle or running checkered slides. Is that something that can be done via the TV's setup, or are you getting these things on Youtube? Thanks!
Checkered slides are something you could pull up via YouTube, or from a test pattern disk.

As for a manual comp cycle, under the picture menu, scroll down to "OLED Panel Settings", select "Clear Panel Noise", and then you can click to start the manual comp cycle immediately, or start it the next time you shut off the TV. The manual comp cycle takes about an hour. After 4 hours of cumulative use, the TV will automatically run a shorter (about 10 minutes) comp cycle when you shut it down.

Running a manual comp could improve the band, as could additional usage.
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post #4936 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 11:27 AM
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Have you watched planet earth 2? And if so how does the tv handle snow scenes on terms of brightness?


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Like it should - the snow looks white, not dirty like it could on a plasma. PEII in 4k looks spectacular on the LG. The things I've noticed with my week old OLED is of course true black, white is really white and the colors really pop. When I turned it on for the first time and watched content (prior to tweaking), I wanted to reach for the sunglasses

Like Rich I am very satisfied with motion compared to my plasma. No regrets at all on the upgrade.
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post #4937 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I still don't understand why HDR Standard has no WB controls. I mean that is a complete step back from last year.

Agreed. Only Cinema (User) has WB controls.
I wonder why it is necessary to put "(User)" in the name of ALL HDR modes


I would like to see a 2017 software update to:
  • Add WB controls to HDR Standard mode.
  • Add Tone Mapping Options
  • Active HDR (On/Off) - for HDR dynamic metadata creation.


Tone mapping Options:
  • Auto - Essentially what they have to today (aggressive below 100 nits for backward compatibility)
  • Low - Starts at 550 nits (or so)
  • Med - Starts at 450 nits (or so)
  • High - Starts at 300 nits (or so)


Dynamic contrast seems to do more than it should. Reducing near black detail and sometime restricting maximum output.


- Rich
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post #4938 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 11:59 AM
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That seems totally unnecessary. I mean 2016 = calibrate in HDR Standard and enjoy, now 2017 = completely different LOL.

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post #4939 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Like it should - the snow looks white, not dirty like it could on a plasma. PEII in 4k looks spectacular on the LG. The things I've noticed with my week old OLED is of course true black, white is really white and the colors really pop. When I turned it on for the first time and watched content (prior to tweaking), I wanted to reach for the sunglasses

Like Rich I am very satisfied with motion compared to my plasma. No regrets at all on the upgrade.


What do you have Judder and motion blur set to?


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post #4940 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
What do you have Judder and motion blur set to?


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Custom with both left at 0.
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post #4941 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:22 PM
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Custom with both left at 0.


With your Settings do you see tracers behind fast moving objects?


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post #4942 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Cozmo85 View Post
Seriously looking at these sets, the 65" c7 specifically. Anyone upgrade form a Samsung F8500 plasma? Impressions?
I did. I still have my 60F8500 but I picked up a 65c7p & I think you should go for it especially for the HDR & DV. I love my 8500 but wow the colors on the oled pop. Only thing I'm struggling with is the motion & a few vertical bands on the c7. Debating if I want to keep it since I can see the bands in dark content
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post #4943 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:29 PM
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With your Settings do you see tracers behind fast moving objects?


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I have yet to notice any irregularities when watching movies, streaming and DTV - soccer, baseball, etc. Please note I'm not a gamer, so I can't comment on that experience. I'm very satisfied with the change from plasma to OLED. Pluses outweigh any negatives - in a big way. By the way my VT60 was calibrated by DNice, so I know it was set up correctly

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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post #4944 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
For motion, DJ=2 or 3 works great for me. I have not seen artifacts from these settings and I hope to keep it that way



C7 Pros:


  • Better Color tracking makes it easier to calibrate has improved skin tones (Big deal for me)
  • DJ=2 no longer has micro-stutters (this may have been a B6 issues only)
  • Black level detail is improved (compressed content has much less blocking)
  • Reduced ABL makes SDR seem much brighter (Even with OLED 60, I don't see ABL on content. I did not think this was a big deal, but is really is great)
  • Reduced red tint from anti-glare coating
  • Cinema User mode has gray-scale 2 and 20 point adjustments (limited and inferior tone-mapping cancel this out)
  • No Vignetting or blobs (darker areas)



C7 Cons:


  • My C7 has banding that can be seen between 10 and 20%. (At 220+ hours, I am still hoping for improvement)
  • HDR Cinema mode has aggressive tone-mapping removing all the pop. Active HDR (Dynamic Contrast = Low,) is MUST to bring back some, not all of the HDR pop)
  • HDR Standard Mode seems to track the EOTF and has much more HDR Pop but no white balance controls



Other comments:



D-Nice has stated the Sony has the best processing, and I suspect they have a dynamic tone-mapping that works better than the C7 Cinema modes. LG should really have a tone-mapping option that preserves/tracks EOTF to least 500 nits. The LG Cinema modes tone-mapping without dynamic contrast engaged is unwatchable; low level detail is crushed, HDR pop is destroyed. Some tweaks to Cinema most could correct these issues. LG: are you listening

HDR Standard blows out high-nit highlights but I prefer it for most sources.



The C7 was a great upgrade and I hope the tone-mapping gets improved. IMO, this is an unforced error.

Streaks are the panel lottery and may still improve over time.



- Rich


Do the HDR highlights lack pop in comparison to a brighter LED or just in general? Is there a way to rectify that issue? I was banking that hdr highlights had better pop than my vizio p65. I know the LG Oleds have a wider colour gamut. My vizio is at about 76 or 83% coverage but it also reaches 500 nits on a 100% window. Can that be taken into consideration?


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post #4945 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LOWPRO24Z View Post
I did. I still have my 60F8500 but I picked up a 65c7p & I think you should go for it especially for the HDR & DV. I love my 8500 but wow the colors on the oled pop. Only thing I'm struggling with is the motion & a few vertical bands on the c7. Debating if I want to keep it since I can see the bands in dark content
Whats the deal with motion? The f8500 seems very film like.
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post #4946 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:33 PM
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Just do 10, most content doesn't display 12 so it's really no use to you. I tried it when i was watching the Martian in 4k and i heard sound coming out but no picture displaying, probably because the movie in in hdr 10.
Hmm, could it be cables? I had a tone of problems with 4:2:2 12 bit until I swapped out my cables. I have not watched Martian yet, but my Oppo on 4:4:4 12 bit is displaying pictures on PE2 without issues.

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post #4947 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cozmo85 View Post
Whats the deal with motion? The f8500 seems very film like.
LG Oleds have more double imaging that they should on pans, etc... Dejudder 1-3 is almost a must for many people.

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post #4948 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 12:35 PM
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Have you watched planet earth 2? And if so how does the tv handle snow scenes on terms of brightness?


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I am impressed. Always been used to DSE effect on Plasma with full snow or white shots, the C7 is amazing, don't care that a Z9D can go brighter as it would probably be too damn distracting, I almost need my sunglasses now on the C7!
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post #4949 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 01:07 PM
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You are misunderstanding what Netflix is providing. Their normal 4K is not 4K HDR unless is says so in the info for what you are watching. And with an LG oled you will not see 4K hdr only 4K DV in the I for. What you see matches what should be happening with respect to the picture settings (what you call memory settings.)

The only way to confirm if you are getting 4K as I said is to get a remote where you can display the Netflix info on the screen. You can tell by the streaming rate if you are getting 4k verses 1080p but not it can be hard to tell the difference! A good 1080p stream upscaled often look pretty good.
I agree with rsonnens...there are many cases where I can't necessarily tell by picture quality if a Netflix show is 4k or 1080. Some of the NF 4k content is pretty soft looking..I just watched GLOW and Gypsy, and thought they both looked like a mediocre BluRays despite being 4k. Then I watched The Bridge, 1080, and it has more apparent detail, to my eyes. Also, does Netflix even have any HDR content which is NOT DolbyVision? If anyone knows of any HDR10 titles on NF, please advise. I find the DV titles often have too bright highlights, especially indoor scenes with sun streaming through a window. It looks like a nuclear event outside, yet the room is somehow still dark, with faces seeming largely in silhouette. I've played around with both Cinema settings, trying to brighten the mid levels and tone down the highlights to no avail. Maybe it's just these old eyes being used to my late beloved Kuro plasma.

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post #4950 of 35728 Old 07-10-2017, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kensingtonwick View Post
Do the HDR highlights lack pop in comparison to a brighter LED or just in general? Is there a way to rectify that issue? I was banking that hdr highlights had better pop than my vizio p65. I know the LG Oleds have a wider colour gamut. My vizio is at about 76 or 83% coverage but it also reaches 500 nits on a 100% window. Can that be taken into consideration?
Yes, in Cinema modes with Dynamic Contrast=Low. However, there is some reduction in pop on low to moderate nit level scenes.
The Standard gives the most.

The Cinema mode with DC=Low all highlight detail is preserved and I expect that some folks prefer this mode since it is easier on the eyes.

- Rich

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