2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 60 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1771 of 36412 Old 05-09-2017, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brec View Post
Two Amazon episodes are the only TV-show/movie things I've watched so far on my new 65" C7, and last night one of them was HDR -- Bosch S2/E1.
If you SEARCH YouTube for HDR you'll find the HDR Page with a very large assortment of HDR material.
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post #1772 of 36412 Old 05-09-2017, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hresna View Post
HDMI-ARC currently only supports DD and DD+ streams, the latter of which can technically contain more than 5.1 channels but I've never seen it implemented. Both codecs are lossy, unlike TrueHD, DTS-HD and Atmos. There isn't any solid reason why ARC wouldn't support the lossless codecs (particularly if the one connection doen'st have an upstream video content), but the HDMI org just didn't implement it that way when they did up the HDMI 1.4 spec.

The next version of HDMI, which is 2.1, will have something called "eARC" which is clearly intended to mean support for the object-based codecs like Atmos (which will include TrueHD and DTS-HD as well). HDMI's FAQ says that "some" impementations of HDMI 2.0x (like our TV) will be firmware upgradable to 2.1. So this is likely a "future support" potential, assuming HDMI 2.1 becomes official before the 2018 models are announced.

In short, no, the B7/C7 won't passthrough Atmos or other lossless codecs through ARC. (I've already tried using a PS4). I hope it comes, since my receiver also does not support HDR, but I'm expecting to upgrade it to a Yamaha Aventage soon.



I agree it seems the LG DLNA client won't decode, process, or stream the lossless codecs, which is unfortunate for your scenario. However, you might have a different source in your setup that would recognize and pass it to your receiver. (A Blu-Ray player, game console, or streaming box, maybe). That would mean using the the secondary device for your client, though. In the worst case, you might try an inexpensive PC or android box.

I would be surprised if your receiver doen't support ARC though. If it has "tv" as a selectable input, it should. You might need to enable its HDMI-CEC feature, which every company seems to label differently. (Ex, LG calls it SIMPLINK). It is a moot point in your current setup though, unfortunately, since ARC won't currently do the lossless codecs anyway, and the client seems not to either.
This is interesting because the Sony A1E passes "lossy" Atmos over HDMI ARC. When I play the Dolby Atmos trailers on VuDu, it plays in Dolby Atmos on my Marantz 7009. I would think the C7 would do the same.

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post #1773 of 36412 Old 05-09-2017, 07:53 PM
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According to rtings video review, the C7 shows it's [email protected] directly to a Windows PC via EDID.

They say you will see it in the list of possible resolutions and in the video they show the drop box showing 119Hz in the list.

Can anyone confirm that you do not need to make a custom resolution on the LG C7 and it just shows in Windows like I just described?
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post #1774 of 36412 Old 05-09-2017, 09:10 PM
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So, with the C7, ARC will not return Atmos over to the receiver eh?

That begs the question for those of you that have used your PC's as media servers, can I output video via my Titan-Xp HDMI 2.0a port to the C7 and retain HDR processing, AND hookup one of my Displayports on the same video card to a DP to HDMI 2.0a converter directly to my receiver to pass Atmos?

Does the image and sound HDMI connections both need HDCP 2.2, or just the image connection?
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post #1775 of 36412 Old 05-09-2017, 09:26 PM
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Some Dolby Vision shots from Netflix's Chefs Table France







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post #1776 of 36412 Old 05-09-2017, 10:00 PM
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Atmos via DD+ might be possible over ARC in general, but not the original Atmos format.
@Callsign_Vega

You could connect the PC to the receiver, not the TV.

You could try a second HDMI output to the receiver, that is how UHD Bluray Players can do it. HDMI 1.4 is enough for the Atmos sound. Displayport is not capable of sound anyway?!
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post #1777 of 36412 Old 05-09-2017, 11:54 PM
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Atmos over arc works on the c7. Quite a number of titles I have from vudu support atmos and it works just fine


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post #1778 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
Atmos over arc works on the c7. Quite a number of titles I have from vudu support atmos and it works just fine


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That's great! What is your AV receiver? Did you have any problems with ARC, like not working every time?


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This is a Flat Panels TV forum, not a how to fix a wife forum. You need to hire a wife calibrator to get her optimized.;)
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post #1779 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 01:29 AM
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Why do people say compensation cycle help with banding?

Aren't the compensation cycle strictly for getting rid of image retention?
Banding is the result of manufacturing defects.

My friend who has a 8 year old LCD with severe banding The banding on it now is as bad as it was 8 years ago. It hadn't lessened one bit over he years.
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post #1780 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 01:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hresna View Post
HDMI-ARC currently only supports DD and DD+ streams, the latter of which can technically contain more than 5.1 channels but I've never seen it implemented. Both codecs are lossy, unlike TrueHD, DTS-HD and Atmos. There isn't any solid reason why ARC wouldn't support the lossless codecs (particularly if the one connection doen'st have an upstream video content), but the HDMI org just didn't implement it that way when they did up the HDMI 1.4 spec.

The next version of HDMI, which is 2.1, will have something called "eARC" which is clearly intended to mean support for the object-based codecs like Atmos (which will include TrueHD and DTS-HD as well). HDMI's FAQ says that "some" impementations of HDMI 2.0x (like our TV) will be firmware upgradable to 2.1. So this is likely a "future support" potential, assuming HDMI 2.1 becomes official before the 2018 models are announced.

In short, no, the B7/C7 won't passthrough Atmos or other lossless codecs through ARC. (I've already tried using a PS4). I hope it comes, since my receiver also does not support HDR, but I'm expecting to upgrade it to a Yamaha Aventage soon.



I agree it seems the LG DLNA client won't decode, process, or stream the lossless codecs, which is unfortunate for your scenario. However, you might have a different source in your setup that would recognize and pass it to your receiver. (A Blu-Ray player, game console, or streaming box, maybe). That would mean using the the secondary device for your client, though. In the worst case, you might try an inexpensive PC or android box.

I would be surprised if your receiver doen't support ARC though. If it has "tv" as a selectable input, it should. You might need to enable its HDMI-CEC feature, which every company seems to label differently. (Ex, LG calls it SIMPLINK). It is a moot point in your current setup though, unfortunately, since ARC won't currently do the lossless codecs anyway, and the client seems not to either.
Some confusion (possibly from me.) I thought DD+ was a form of atmos. Here's my source https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-net...2378442?page=1
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post #1781 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 02:31 AM
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post #1782 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wertzius View Post
@Hresna the LG 2017 TVs support Atmos over Arc, but LG uses a proprietary way because it is not defined by the HDMI Org as you said. So only the LG SJ9 recognises it, with luck other receivers.
Yes this makes sense, HDMI 2.1 isn't official but the companies know enough about it they could make their own implementations without the licensing. I highly suspect full 2.1 support (or at least eARC support) will come via firmware update.

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Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
Atmos over arc works on the c7. Quite a number of titles I have from vudu support atmos and it works just fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
This is interesting because the Sony A1E passes "lossy" Atmos over HDMI ARC. When I play the Dolby Atmos trailers on VuDu, it plays in Dolby Atmos on my Marantz 7009. I would think the C7 would do the same.
Interesting - does the receiver recognize it as Atmos, or is it a multichannel DD+ stream?

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Some confusion (possibly from me.) I thought DD+ was a form of atmos. Here's my source https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-net...2378442?page=1
Thanks for the link, lots of good info there. So far as I understand DD+ is still a lossy codec, just with support for a wider number of channels and higher bitrates (less compression, better sound quality possible, still lossy).

Atmos decoders, for the most part, would be implemented with the ability to downmix the stream into something the connected receiver can decode - typically dolby TrueHD for those of us with non-Atmos receivers (I think this is actually a requirement for blu-ray players). It makes sense to me the B7 would have that ability using ARC (at least in the future), but I'm intrigued by the users reporting native Atmos passthrough. I've not managed to passthrough TrueHD streams (they get downmixed to 5.1 DD+), but it makes sense they included the Atmos functionality so they could brand this as an "atmos" TV line. IMO, not much point to atmos unless you have 7+ channels including elevation... but then I have a bunch of high end speakers so I'm biased against anybody's soundbar claiming the same effect

At any rate, I would expect a firmware update to enable lossless audio passthrough in its current formats at some point. If it already does Atmos, that's great for those of us with Atmos sources and receivers. Its not a big step from there to support TrueHD and DTS-HD. Here's hopin'

UPDATE->

Turns out there are flavours of Atmos. The object metadata can be embedded into a DD+ stream using DD+ based audio (lossy codec). But you can also get TrueHD-based Atmos, where the audio codec used is the lossless one with much higher AQ. You can pass DD+ based Atmos over HDMI-ARC and this LG TV evidently supports this (7.1 channels or object-based lossy audio to 5.1.4, etc). But HDMI-ARC does not support passthrough of TrueHD over ARC (just doesn't have the bandwidth). This is the promise of eARC in the HDMI 2.1 spec.

At this point I won't hold my breath that LG's SoC will be firmware up-gradable for eARC, since this evidently uses the ethernet wires on the HDMI cable and unless they built that functionality in ahead of time, we're probably out of luck (but maybe not, since the drafts of 2.1 would have been available).

So everybody go out and buy expensive new AV receivers to go with your expensive new TV =)

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Last edited by Hresna; 05-11-2017 at 11:33 AM.
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post #1783 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post
Why do people say compensation cycle help with banding?

Aren't the compensation cycle strictly for getting rid of image retention?
Banding is the result of manufacturing defects.

My friend who has a 8 year old LCD with severe banding The banding on it now is as bad as it was 8 years ago. It hadn't lessened one bit over he years.
LCD is not OLED (a backlight is a backlight, and LCDs don't have comp. cycles ). I'd be hard-pressed to come up with an explanation, but these compensation cycles, which seek to equalize brightness across the entire screen, somehow can account for columnar brightness inequities over time, or maybe it's just aging of the panel and heat output affording a happy side effect? The other possibility is it's psychological, or it's a combination of all of the above, and YMMV.
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Last edited by video_analysis; 05-12-2017 at 12:49 AM. Reason: fixed old typo
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post #1784 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 06:10 AM
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Any calibrators care to share any settings?
You are being ignored for a reason. I mean this nicely - but you do know how calibrators earn their living? If they started posting settings then that may impact their business/earnings, plus each panel has differences, you plug settings Chad used for his review into your panel, they don't look that great, you post they don't look great, and then your or someone else questions ChadB's ability as a calibrator.

I've paid DNice to do two displays for me, money well spent. ChadB tours as well as DNice. Those two along with a few others that I'm sure you can get members to recommend (see calibration thread) are well worth the cost based on what you'll see after they calibrate your display properly - calibration cost is minimum vs. what you've invested in your new LG OLED
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post #1785 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 07:46 AM
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Excellent review and basically sums up what we all thought would be the case:

- The C7 is better than the A1E at 1/3 of the cost.
- The B6 is almost as good as the C7. If you can find at a discount, go for that.

Quality, fact based review by rtings.com
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post #1786 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 08:15 AM
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That's great! What is your AV receiver? Did you have any problems with ARC, like not working every time?


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I have an onkyo rz900. The only issue I've had with arc, was when I first got my c7 and the audio kept starting up out of sync, but that was only with the vudu app. But after a firmware update shortly after roll out I haven't had issues since


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post #1787 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 08:46 AM
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So I'm very pleased with my OLED65B7 overall. Coming from a (nominally) FALD VA-based LCD in the Vizio M-series 60", the B7 is a huge upgrade. It's plenty bright in HDR, so bright in fact that watching it in the dark, bright elements are eye-searing, but of course I'm coming from a non-HDR LCD, and my bedroom TV is a dim Panasonic plasma. Whites aren't tinted at all and black crush seems much better compared to 2016 OLED. And the perfect blacks, wow. Finally feels like what I first got with my Kuro years ago has been delivered in full. The OS is snappy and apps are well-implemented, though Netflix kept dropping back to 1440 or 1080 resolution, seems like I wasn't getting quite the Wifi signal that my Xbox One S was getting

I'm primarily a gamer and I think this (and the A1E to a lesser degree) are the best displays out for gaming. Horizon looked absolutely amazing, just stunning in 4K checkboard rendering and HDR. I also played an hour of Nier: Automata, which is a 60 fps action-RPG that's almost monochromatic in sections. It thrashed my LCD with trails behind fast motion but the B7 looks much cleaner and feels just as fast in terms of input lag, though my Vizio actually had a little less in game mode (~19ms). Motion is not as nearly good as on my plasma with 60 fps games but this is to be expected.

On the other hand, while I didn't run slides, I can see some severe dark banding down the center of my set. It was evident in the Amazon app and at the bottom of a canyon in Nier where the screen was very dark gray. The sides look pretty good but the center is pretty bad. I can live with it, though. My last set, like most FALD LCDs, had uniformity issues with lighter colors because of the backlight. I miss plasma's uniform picture but there's not an option now that has perfect uniformity, so I'll live with this and hope it gets better over time. Also, LG's motion interpolation is terrible. I never use it because I despise the soap opera effect but LG's implementation is worse than my Sony 60A3000 from a decade ago. It's just awful.

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Originally Posted by t1337Dude View Post
This might go without saying, but at the very least you'll want to turn off Energy Saving in HDR. I use it in SDR because SDR is very bright in my room but you don't want to dim the image for HDR.

Other things I recommend (but may not fit your preference)...

- Turn Sharpening Off (set to 0), and Super Resolution Off
- Set Color Temperature from C30 to ~W35 (depends on what warmth looks most natural to you). Image is far too cool on the default setting.
- Noise Reduction Features Off
- Dynamic Contrast (Off)
Thanks for these. I did W35 and it looks good to me.
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post #1788 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 09:02 AM
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Yeah, I usually buy off of the Internet (bought my 500M new from a forum member online back in 2009) but this display is twice as much, and with the uniformity issues, I want to be able to take this back to the store if I need to.
You where be very surprised at how rare those issues are along with other "known" glitches....... Your 500M had issues back them too....
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post #1789 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 09:04 AM
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Calibration services for a B7

Hi guys.

Recent owner of a new B7 and looking for some answers. Id really appreciate anyones input.

1) Id really like to get this set professionally calibrated in the months to come. I have found Chad B's website but am looking for Dnice's website, does anyone have a link to that?


2) does anyone recommend an equally prestigious calibrator in the northeast(Connecticut) or someone who travels here with some frequency besides these two gents?


3) What are the best generic TV settings for these B7/C7s to use? I read Chad Bs review about placing it into Wide color gamet, reducing sharpness to zero and using the expert or cinema mode. Are there any other settings that should definitely go one way or the other?


4) is expert or cinema mode also the best setting for a gamer looking to put out 4k and HDR for his ps4 pro/xboxone S? Apparently going into game mode reduces input lag......but wont that sacrifice quality somewhere else? Otherwise why wouldnt every setting take advantage of such a low input lag.


Thanks very much gang
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post #1790 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 09:07 AM
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hi all,

newbie question, i changed my C7's sony x800 blu ray input to "PC", to activate chroma subsampling 4:4:4 per rtings, but now the real cinema & truMotion both grayed out.

Is this normal?

Not sure should i switch back to non PC? Not too sure the benefit of 4:4:4 as just trying to learn. Thanks in advance.
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post #1791 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
I have an onkyo rz900. The only issue I've had with arc, was when I first got my c7 and the audio kept starting up out of sync, but that was only with the vudu app. But after a firmware update shortly after roll out I haven't had issues since


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Onkyo confirmed to me that the SBT-A500 (LS-7200 in Europe) recognises Atmos at all inputs, even through ARC. Seems that Onkyo receivers may be able to do this in general. Maybe Pioneer as Onkyo lookalike too?
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post #1792 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kenwk View Post
hi all,

newbie question, i changed my C7's sony x800 blu ray input to "PC", to activate chroma subsampling 4:4:4 per rtings, but now the real cinema & truMotion both grayed out.

Is this normal?

Not sure should i switch back to non PC? Not too sure the benefit of 4:4:4 as just trying to learn. Thanks in advance.
I had the same issue and posted in the gamers' settings thread (with no responses), but I've since discovered that labelling the input as PC essentially has this effect, of disabling certain processing options that add to the lag - truemotion being one of them. Evidently a hardcore gamer doesn't want any of that stuff anyway. Personally I don't do much lag-dependant gaming (solo campaigns almost exclusively and no FPS) so I like to have some added frames to smooth out the picture. My workaround was to sacrifice a screen mode (I used "standard") to optimize for gaming (with better colour controls, instead of the Cool-Warm slider), still tweaking my trumotion settings though. With them both maxed out, it looks like 60fps but there's something a little off about it.

My receiver actually has 2 outputs so I'm considering using the second one as a PC-labelled-input on the TV, so that I have the option of switching back and forth between a laggy-processed and tweaked image, and the 4:4:4 chroma 21ms one.

I should add, I don't really understand the issue of the 4:4:4 chroma but I think it is only PC-source (computer video card) that will generate that type of signal. As a console gamer, I think its a moot point, hence the "game console" input label doesn't do anything different than the game mode.
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post #1793 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 10:53 AM
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Ozymandis, did you try 30 fps games besides Horizon, especially ones without motion blur integrated in the game engine?

I want to know if you see a lot of judder or stutter in the motion with these? I saw it a lot in forza horizon 3 demo last year on my E6 that I returned because of the uniformity issues and thought it was bad but rtings says it's because of the instant puxel response time (0.1ms) not blending frames together like lcds does.
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post #1794 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 11:13 AM
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For me currently the best comparision video to the A1:

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post #1795 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 11:15 AM
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So, with the C7, ARC will not return Atmos over to the receiver eh?

That begs the question for those of you that have used your PC's as media servers, can I output video via my Titan-Xp HDMI 2.0a port to the C7 and retain HDR processing, AND hookup one of my Displayports on the same video card to a DP to HDMI 2.0a converter directly to my receiver to pass Atmos?

Does the image and sound HDMI connections both need HDCP 2.2, or just the image connection?
Display port does not have sound, only hdmi does. So no it won't work.

Did you get your C7? Did you test some games on it and compared them with your A1E?
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post #1796 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 12:20 PM
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On an unrelated note, what is a good wall mount for the c7?
Brand?
Type?
I know monoprice sells tons of mounts for a great price, just not sure which would work best
I used the Sanus VLT5 for my C7, on The Sweet Home's recommendation. I'm happy with it overall, my only complaint being that the TV is a little too close to the wall for my setup. I have windows on either side of the TV, and the window trim makes it very tough to get to the ports on the back. That said, installation was as easy as you could expect, it feels rock solid, and you're able to fine-tune the leveling of the TV after installation.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #1797 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 12:26 PM
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I'd like to know this, too. I bought a Sanus VLT6, but I don't think it's going to work for me because the brackets will extend past the bottom of the set. Anybody have recommendations?
I used the VLT5 with my 65" C7, and was concerned about the same thing with the brackets, but I called Sanus's support and they said the brackets only need to be roughly centered on the area where the holes are. I have the brackets as low as they'll go without sticking out below the bottom of the TV, and it's totally fine. The bracket holds the tilt angle fine, too.
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post #1798 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 12:43 PM
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Ozymandis, did you try 30 fps games besides Horizon, especially ones without motion blur integrated in the game engine?

I want to know if you see a lot of judder or stutter in the motion with these? I saw it a lot in forza horizon 3 demo last year on my E6 that I returned because of the uniformity issues and thought it was bad but rtings says it's because of the instant puxel response time (0.1ms) not blending frames together like lcds does.
I only had last night to play on it, so I tried only Horizon, Nier, Last of Us, and Abzu. Nier and TLoU are both 60 fps games, and Horizon and Abzu both have motion blur. What are some good games on console that are 30 fps and don't have motion blur? Otherwise I'd have to try PC games and I won't have my HTPC built for a couple more days.

RTINGS' explanation is... interesting. I guess that makes sense. A 30 fps game will naturally have a lot of judder though because that's a low framerate (sadly standard on consoles today).

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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
You where be very surprised at how rare those issues are along with other "known" glitches....... Your 500M had issues back them too....
You're probably right, but, as I said, with the price, I was a bit nervous. Next time I buy a display I'll likely order online for the significant savings.
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post #1799 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
Ozymandis, did you try 30 fps games besides Horizon, especially ones without motion blur integrated in the game engine?

I want to know if you see a lot of judder or stutter in the motion with these? I saw it a lot in forza horizon 3 demo last year on my E6 that I returned because of the uniformity issues and thought it was bad but rtings says it's because of the instant puxel response time (0.1ms) not blending frames together like lcds does.
I only had last night to play on it, so I tried only Horizon, Nier, Last of Us, and Abzu. Nier and TLoU are both 60 fps games, and Horizon and Abzu both have motion blur. What are some good games on console that are 30 fps and don't have motion blur? Otherwise I'd have to try PC games and I won't have my HTPC built for a couple more days.

RTINGS' explanation is... interesting. I guess that makes sense. A 30 fps game will naturally have a lot of judder though because that's a low framerate (sadly standard on consoles today.
I am not sure which games are 30 fps and have no motion blur. If you have uncharted thief's end maybe try that one. I remember it was choppy on my E6.

You can try any 30 fps games and tell me what you think. There's probably one you own that has no motion blur.

Thx!
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post #1800 of 36412 Old 05-10-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
I am not sure which games are 30 fps and have no motion blur. If you have uncharted thief's end maybe try that one. I remember it was choppy on my E6.

You can try any 30 fps games and tell me what you think. There's probably one you own that has no motion blur.

Thx!
I'd say there is a very high chance most console games that do run 30 FPS will have an implementation of motion blur.

Also depends on the game/console if it can even maintain a fluid 30 FPS which the early X1 & PS4 had/have trouble with. How about your game settings? It would have to be in Game mode and just recently did HDR get a game mode.

I have Horizon Zero Dawn, Forza Horizon 3, Uncharted 4, and Gears of War 4. All have motion blur and feel fine but I'm still a 60+FPS addict
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