2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 61 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1801 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 02:39 PM
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I am not sure which games are 30 fps and have no motion blur. If you have uncharted thief's end maybe try that one. I remember it was choppy on my E6.

You can try any 30 fps games and tell me what you think. There's probably one you own that has no motion blur.

Thx!
I'd say there is a very high chance most console games that do run 30 FPS will have an implementation of motion blur.

Also depends on the game/console if it can even maintain a fluid 30 FPS which the early X1 & PS4 had/have trouble with. How about your game settings? It would have to be in Game mode and just recently did HDR get a game mode.

I have Horizon Zero Dawn, Forza Horizon 3, Uncharted 4, and Gears of War 4. All have motion blur and feel fine but I'm still a 60+FPS addict
My problem last year was with forza horizon 3 demo on xbox one. Maybe it was the demo dropping below 30 fps but I had my other lcd displays showing the same thing and it was way smoother looking but more blurry and less detailed than on the oled in motion.

Basically I turned in a circle with the car where there is a lot of forest and checked the trees and it was major judder to the point that I saw it without looking for that specifically at the time.

I also saw major stutter in lucy UHD blu-ray without looking for it in the scene where she is in the lab with the scientists near the end and they pan with a medium speed from left to right.

I'm just trying to get a feeling if this got better in lg 2017 oleds but probably not since motion in 2017 is same as 2016 for LG OLEDs.

Just trying to figure out if I get a C7 or A1E. When you're a gamer it's not an easy decision.
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post #1802 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
Just trying to figure out if I get a C7 or A1E. When you're a gamer it's not an easy decision.
If OLED's faster pixel response time causes motion to be more juddery because it's not smearing pixels between frames as LCD does, then the A1E will be affected as well, unless interpolation is on, and if it is, you aren't going to want to game like that. For myself, 30 fps is already not smooth motion, and as another poster pointed out, consoles have struggled to even deliver a steady 30 frames per second, so now you're including frame time spikes into how a game "looks" to your eye.

I already posted my rationale, but my reasons for going with the LG were, by importance, 1) price 2) the OS 3) Sony's bad stand design 4) the minimal difference in performance. I could have had the A1E if I had wanted it, but I decided to pass. For me, since I'm feeding only 4K sources to my OLED, the better upscaling (a concrete improvement!) just wasn't worth a $1500 "tax", and, comparing 4K content, there just wasn't enough difference between Sony's processing and LG's to justify the extra expenditure. It looks like ABL is less aggressive on the LG 2017's compared to the Sony, the display may be a little bit brighter, and the option is there for much lower lag 1080p from a PC or Nintendo Switch, if I decided to get one... 1080p looks fine on the B7, it's sub-1080p scaling that's so-so.

You can't go wrong with either, anyway.
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post #1803 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
If OLED's faster pixel response time causes motion to be more juddery because it's not smearing pixels between frames as LCD does, then the A1E will be affected as well, unless interpolation is on, and if it is, you aren't going to want to game like that. For myself, 30 fps is already not smooth motion, and as another poster pointed out, consoles have struggled to even deliver a steady 30 frames per second, so now you're including frame time spikes into how a game "looks" to your eye.

I already posted my rationale, but my reasons for going with the LG were, by importance, 1) price 2) the OS 3) Sony's bad stand design 4) the minimal difference in performance. I could have had the A1E if I had wanted it, but I decided to pass. For me, since I'm feeding only 4K sources to my OLED, the better upscaling (a concrete improvement!) just wasn't worth a $1500 "tax", and, comparing 4K content, there just wasn't enough difference between Sony's processing and LG's to justify the extra expenditure. It looks like ABL is less aggressive on the LG 2017's compared to the Sony, the display may be a little bit brighter, and the option is there for much lower lag 1080p from a PC or Nintendo Switch, if I decided to get one... 1080p looks fine on the B7, it's sub-1080p scaling that's so-so.

You can't go wrong with either, anyway.
1) price -- Agreed
2) the OS -- Very agreed
3) Sony's bad stand design -- immensely agreed but i'd buy a vesa stand to correct that
4) the minimal difference in performance -- that's what I am trying to find out.

THE main thing that makes me wonder about A1E is the BFI mode at 60 fps gaming. I would really love to get rid of motion blur a good degree but I don't know if I will see the flickering.

I asked the question in the A1E thread about what is the difference between both tvs motion-wise when trumotion is off on C7 and motion flow is off on A1E and got no response. From what you said above, am I right to say that you would think they will become identical motion-wise?

I am asking because I usually turn the motion processing off in all content on my tvs.
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post #1804 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 03:45 PM
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I've got an OLED 55B7 10 days ago and wanted to get some input on whether the banding on my panel is normal. I can see it in dark scenes of some normal content too unfortunately. I don't know how to best take near black pictures, but I hope these are sufficient to judge it.
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post #1805 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Schlomonator View Post
I've got an OLED 55B7 10 days ago and wanted to get some input on whether the banding on my panel is normal. I can see it in dark scenes of some normal content too unfortunately. I don't know how to best take near black pictures, but I hope these are sufficient to judge it.
panel looks great
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post #1806 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 03:59 PM
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panel looks great
Looks pristine to me
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post #1807 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 05:24 PM
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That 55 looks great!

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
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post #1808 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 06:13 PM
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I agree it seems the LG DLNA client won't decode, process, or stream the lossless codecs, which is unfortunate for your scenario. However, you might have a different source in your setup that would recognize and pass it to your receiver. (A Blu-Ray player, game console, or streaming box, maybe). That would mean using the the secondary device for your client, though. In the worst case, you might try an inexpensive PC or android box.

I would be surprised if your receiver doen't support ARC though. If it has "tv" as a selectable input, it should. You might need to enable its HDMI-CEC feature, which every company seems to label differently. (Ex, LG calls it SIMPLINK). It is a moot point in your current setup though, unfortunately, since ARC won't currently do the lossless codecs anyway, and the client seems not to either.
That's interesting, I do have a TV input, but my receiver lets me assign various audio sources to it, one of which is 1 of the 2 Optical inputs. I think this is the way that Pioneer supports that scenario. Unless I'm wrong, I have a Pioneer VSX 1020.

It does support HDMI-CEC, so that is working to switch inputs, power on/off, etc. It's not the best and is buggy, when I open a webOS app, it powers off the receiver and I need to turn it back on. I think it's sending a command to the Apple TV to say it's switching inputs and the Apple TV may be sending a command to go to sleep and turn off the receiver in the process.

It's true that it would necessarily change my situation but it would mean I don't have to run the extra Optical cable.
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post #1809 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
Atmos over arc works on the c7. Quite a number of titles I have from vudu support atmos and it works just fine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not sure if you have any content that supports it, but if I try to play a video via DLNA or the 3rd party Plex client that has Atmos, both applications show an error that the video has no audio track. And then it will go to the next audio track, if one is present.

I don't Vudu so I can't test that, but if that works then I'm curious why the other 2 applications don't.
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post #1810 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 06:23 PM
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At any rate, I would expect a firmware update to enable lossless audio passthrough in its current formats at some point. If it already does Atmos, that's great for those of us with Atmos sources and receivers. Its not a big step from there to support TrueHD and DTS-HD. Here's hopin'
I've been able to play video content that includes DTS-HD (it may be getting down mixed) and DTS audio tracks, and have the audio passthrough via Optical to my receiver. The receiver is then display that as DTS. This is via the DLNA client, and Xplay the 3rd party Plex client.

It seems that some lossless audio codecs are supported, maybe just not Atmos.
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post #1811 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Schlomonator View Post
I've got an OLED 55B7 10 days ago and wanted to get some input on whether the banding on my panel is normal. I can see it in dark scenes of some normal content too unfortunately. I don't know how to best take near black pictures, but I hope these are sufficient to judge it.
So that's 10 days and is about as best as you can expect, should improve even further over time (incrementally). What's the hour count? You must be highly sensitive to the banding phenomenon if it still shows in content. Have you confirmed it appears at the same location on multiple sources?
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post #1812 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 07:12 PM
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Miracast - No Sound

I have had no trouble mirroring my new HP Spectre 360 computer using Miracast but cannot get the sound to go to the TV. I have tried using just the TV speakers and using ARC to send the sound to my receiver. The sound just keeps playing on my computer. I had no trouble getting it to work on my previous TV using a Microsoft Wireless Adapter. Any suggestions?
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post #1813 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 07:31 PM
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Atmos via DD+ might be possible over ARC in general, but not the original Atmos format.
@Callsign_Vega

You could connect the PC to the receiver, not the TV.

You could try a second HDMI output to the receiver, that is how UHD Bluray Players can do it. HDMI 1.4 is enough for the Atmos sound. Displayport is not capable of sound anyway?!
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Display port does not have sound, only hdmi does. So no it won't work.

Did you get your C7? Did you test some games on it and compared them with your A1E?
Displayport most certainly passes audio, I am just curious though if it can pass HDCP 2.2 while using an adapter to convert DP to HDMI.

https://www.displayport.org/faq/
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post #1814 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 07:44 PM
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You are being ignored for a reason. I mean this nicely - but you do know how calibrators earn their living? If they started posting settings then that may impact their business/earnings, plus each panel has differences, you plug settings Chad used for his review into your panel, they don't look that great, you post they don't look great, and then your or someone else questions ChadB's ability as a calibrator.

I've paid DNice to do two displays for me, money well spent. ChadB tours as well as DNice. Those two along with a few others that I'm sure you can get members to recommend (see calibration thread) are well worth the cost based on what you'll see after they calibrate your display properly - calibration cost is minimum vs. what you've invested in your new LG OLED
I completely understand your point. I think at this this level you invest in a pro calibration. As you said, all panels are different. I am just looking for settings that willl get me through the first 200 hours to get the best pic possible. There are also a lot of amateur calibrators that could help some of us out. I haven't bought a new tv in 7 years and I am coming from plasma. I can't believe the colors and brightness on this set. In no way am I trying to get the magic bullet without paying for it. I would just like a chance to get the best out of the box settings during my return window so I can evaluate it as best I can. Look at the time I have been on this board. I am not a newbie. I have seen many suggested settings over the years many from pro and amateur calibrators. Thanks for your reply. Beat regards, I am not trying to take anyone's livelihood away cause each panel is different and a lot of these settings were not around when I got my plasma. This is a new world for me.

Thanks,

Jerry

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post #1815 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 09:36 PM
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Nothing wrong with asking for baseline settings and adjusting as necessary. OLED light, brightness, and contrast are all remarkably close on these TVs. It's the white balance settings that I would recommend against copying from other TVs.
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post #1816 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
Displayport most certainly passes audio, I am just curious though if it can pass HDCP 2.2 while using an adapter to convert DP to HDMI.

https://www.displayport.org/faq/
Interesting you learn something everyday. Can display port pass video and audio at the same time?
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post #1817 of 36400 Old 05-10-2017, 10:22 PM
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Yes, it's a bonafide alternative to HDMI, but the organization is too powerful and greedy to let DisplayPort make much headway in the home theater world.
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post #1818 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mikek View Post
panel looks great
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Originally Posted by ziocomposite View Post
Looks pristine to me
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That 55 looks great!
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
So that's 10 days and is about as best as you can expect, should improve even further over time (incrementally). What's the hour count? You must be highly sensitive to the banding phenomenon if it still shows in content. Have you confirmed it appears at the same location on multiple sources?
Thank you for the answers. That's reassuring, although I still fear my pictures might not show it properly. It's definitely always in the same location regardless of source, and especially that one thin bright vertical line almost at the center and the grid pattern in the lower right corner is something I keep seeing (but of course I also keep looking for it now).

I can't check the hour count, but it must be 50 or 70 hours, and I have run the full pixel refresher twice so far. It might have improved ever so slightly, but it's hard to tell. I'll just hope it improvese further and/or I'll learn to ignore it.
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post #1819 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 03:01 AM
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Yes, I just found it. Thanks! The owner's manual is basically worthless.

Mike
I so agree about the manuals. But this is a current trend I'm seeing. Now that more (most?) tech has the manuals online rather than on paper, the quality has gone down. It takes some skill, also, to produce a document in hyperlinked format which navigates well. I find it quite difficult to extract the information from them even if it's in there because it is broken up into pieces, unnecessarily, throughout the e-doc, like they think we can't take one big bite of information at once.
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post #1820 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 04:46 AM
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Schlomonator experience is exactly why I keep telling people that pictures posted online of uniformity issues are not useful for comparisons unless both sets were taken with same camera and tv settings. They almost never capture accurately what we can see in person. Even ones that appear perfect in pictures can still show significant banding in actual content. I've lost count how many OLED TVs I've seen over the years and I've never seen one yet without banding or vignetting visible in some content. It's just a limitation of the tech using current LG production methods. All else being equal, most defects are harder to see at smaller screen sizes so there are generally fewer complaints on those. If you're very sensitive, maybe going smaller is your best option until there is solid evidence that LG has made manufacturing improvements.
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post #1821 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 04:53 AM
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That's interesting, I do have a TV input, but my receiver lets me assign various audio sources to it, one of which is 1 of the 2 Optical inputs. I think this is the way that Pioneer supports that scenario. Unless I'm wrong, I have a Pioneer VSX 1020.
I stand corrected. While your receiver supports HDMI 1.4, the folks at pioneer somehow got away with not implementing ARC (or providing a firmware update for it).

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It does support HDMI-CEC, so that is working to switch inputs, power on/off, etc. It's not the best and is buggy, when I open a webOS app, it powers off the receiver and I need to turn it back on. I think it's sending a command to the Apple TV to say it's switching inputs and the Apple TV may be sending a command to go to sleep and turn off the receiver in the process.
HDMI-CEC is a dogs breakfast and very hard to predict how individual components will work together. At its best, its marginally more convenient than pressing multiple buttons or using a remote with macros. At its worst, its a dementia-inducing hdmi handshaking nightmare.

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It's true that it would necessarily change my situation but it would mean I don't have to run the extra Optical cable.
At least you aren't losing any functionality at present using the optical cable... but looks like you have a compelling case now for a receiver upgrade =D [and a streamer / client that will passthrough your atmos and truehd)

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post #1822 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 05:38 AM
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I completely understand your point. I think at this this level you invest in a pro calibration. As you said, all panels are different. I am just looking for settings that willl get me through the first 200 hours to get the best pic possible. There are also a lot of amateur calibrators that could help some of us out. I haven't bought a new tv in 7 years and I am coming from plasma. I can't believe the colors and brightness on this set. In no way am I trying to get the magic bullet without paying for it. I would just like a chance to get the best out of the box settings during my return window so I can evaluate it as best I can. Look at the time I have been on this board. I am not a newbie. I have seen many suggested settings over the years many from pro and amateur calibrators. Thanks for your reply. Beat regards, I am not trying to take anyone's livelihood away cause each panel is different and a lot of these settings were not around when I got my plasma. This is a new world for me.

Thanks,

Jerry
So based on what you are saying, all you need to do is try ISF bright and or ISF Dark using the default settings and just adjust the OLED light to your room environment and you can do your evaluation. These are the most accurate picture modes on the LG and from what I've seen, very well calibrated out of the box. If you like the set, then at some point you can make the PQ even better by getting a professional calibration or learning to do it yourself. I think the problem you are having is that you are looking for "tips" to get around issues and trying to tweak the PQ. With this years LG and the Sony, mostly all issues that were in the 2016 sets have improved to the point that you don't need these "tips and tweaks" to get a great picture.
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post #1823 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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So I've got my ARC working now, after ditching a few of the cheaper HDMI cables in my daisy chain. My Onkyo 646 5.1 setup supports Atmos over ARC so I'll give it a test using these....

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html

Result: The Amaze video - I could not detect any difference in sound quality between HDMI straight to the AV (from a VU+), DLNA (also from a VU+) and USB. They all sounded amazing. The D+ symbol lit up on the Onkyo for all 3, once I set PCM to auto.

Having said all that, the audible difference when I listened without D+ wasn't very great. But I'm no expert.

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post #1824 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 07:57 AM
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This seems to be the thing to do around here (5% slide attached). I resisted a while, but it’s in keeping with my character to collect, track, and share data.

This is a 65" B7 with only 23 hours on it, mostly vanilla-HD, some SD, and almost no HDR (and no slides). Haven't done any compensations except those triggered automatically. I'd have to say I'm relatively content with the uniformity. The vignetting appears to me fairly subtle and I haven't noticed it in content. The banding also doesn't look too bad, although that I have noticed it in some content (at least twice in darker scenes of The Avengers Blu-Ray, with the rest of the time me being amazed at how good the screen looks). Sorry @VidPro , I think I find banding a more annoying flaw in this tech, but then I haven’t seen really bad vignetting. I think I could live with the amount of banding I have in this set.

I’m more concerned about the colour calibration of my set (having to be on the saturated “wide” colour gamut with warm1 to get near to accuracy, without getting into the CMS or white balance for which I don’t have the means to do on my own). I’ll eventually elaborate more on this in a different post.
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post #1825 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 09:06 AM
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This seems to be the thing to do around here (5% slide attached). I resisted a while, but it’s in keeping with my character to collect, track, and share data.

This is a 65" B7 with only 23 hours on it, mostly vanilla-HD, some SD, and almost no HDR (and no slides). Haven't done any compensations except those triggered automatically. I'd have to say I'm relatively content with the uniformity. The vignetting appears to me fairly subtle and I haven't noticed it in content. The banding also doesn't look too bad, although that I have noticed it in some content (at least twice in darker scenes of The Avengers Blu-Ray, with the rest of the time me being amazed at how good the screen looks). Sorry @VidPro , I think I find banding a more annoying flaw in this tech, but then I haven’t seen really bad vignetting. I think I could live with the amount of banding I have in this set.

I’m more concerned about the colour calibration of my set (having to be on the saturated “wide” colour gamut with warm1 to get near to accuracy, without getting into the CMS or white balance for which I don’t have the means to do on my own). I’ll eventually elaborate more on this in a different post.
That looks pretty damn good! With 23 hours I'd say it'll probably get better since it is so minor.

Compared to this...



Ouch!
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post #1826 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hresna View Post
At least you aren't losing any functionality at present using the optical cable... but looks like you have a compelling case now for a receiver upgrade =D [and a streamer / client that will passthrough your atmos and truehd)
Oh I have been thinking the same thing myself, and trying to talk myself out of it haha. Need to hold off the receiver for now.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the next Apple TV comes soon, which I fully expect will support 4K and hopefully at least HDR10.
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post #1827 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Hresna View Post
This seems to be the thing to do around here (5% slide attached). I resisted a while, but it?s in keeping with my character to collect, track, and share data.

This is a 65" B7 with only 23 hours on it, mostly vanilla-HD, some SD, and almost no HDR (and no slides). Haven't done any compensations except those triggered automatically. I'd have to say I'm relatively content with the uniformity. The vignetting appears to me fairly subtle and I haven't noticed it in content. The banding also doesn't look too bad, although that I have noticed it in some content (at least twice in darker scenes of The Avengers Blu-Ray, with the rest of the time me being amazed at how good the screen looks). Sorry @VidPro , I think I find banding a more annoying flaw in this tech, but then I haven?t seen really bad vignetting. I think I could live with the amount of banding I have in this set.

I?m more concerned about the colour calibration of my set (having to be on the saturated ?wide? colour gamut with warm1 to get near to accuracy, without getting into the CMS or white balance for which I don?t have the means to do on my own). I?ll eventually elaborate more on this in a different post.
Looks good but what picture mode was that taken in? If not isf night mode could you retake and repost the results??
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post #1828 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Schlomonator View Post
I've got an OLED 55B7 10 days ago and wanted to get some input on whether the banding on my panel is normal. I can see it in dark scenes of some normal content too unfortunately. I don't know how to best take near black pictures, but I hope these are sufficient to judge it.
There is no such thing as a perfect TV but that's real close..........lol
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post #1829 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 09:54 AM
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So based on what you are saying, all you need to do is try ISF bright and or ISF Dark using the default settings and just adjust the OLED light to your room environment and you can do your evaluation. These are the most accurate picture modes on the LG and from what I've seen, very well calibrated out of the box. If you like the set, then at some point you can make the PQ even better by getting a professional calibration or learning to do it yourself. I think the problem you are having is that you are looking for "tips" to get around issues and trying to tweak the PQ. With this years LG and the Sony, mostly all issues that were in the 2016 sets have improved to the point that you don't need these "tips and tweaks" to get a great picture.

Jrref,

I appreciate the response. Can you give me some advice about HDR on this set. Should I watch in standard, cinema home, cinema, etc. How about noise reduction, mpeg noise reduction, real cinema. Color gamut, super resolution, dynamic contrast, dynamic color, etc.. so many different controls that I haven't ever used before.

It looks fantastic despite the fact that I don't know what I am doing.

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post #1830 of 36400 Old 05-11-2017, 10:01 AM
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I see a few scattered reports of white flashes in this thread so I wanted to add my own. I bought a 65B7 at Costco on Monday afternoon. We've been using it regularly and I just noticed a white flash for the first time on Wednesday night. It was just once and after ~3 hours of use (just playing games on the Switch); it was so quick that I almost missed it. But my wife didn't notice it at all and she's been the main person to use the TV so I don't know if it's actually happening more frequently.

Just as an additional data point, my B7 was manufactured in Mexico in March.
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