2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 660 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19771 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 07:17 PM
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Just curious, what makes ATV4 that much better then Roku?

LG OLED B7A 65"
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post #19772 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 07:18 PM
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so l try the little trick that Steve Yedlin( director of photography of Star Wars The Last Jedi) posted for his OLED on raise brightness to around 55, you lose perfect black but holy ****, its really brings up those details, also blacks are still pretty black.

its look more like my plasma :O
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post #19773 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onaga View Post
so l try the little trick that Steve Yedlin( director of photography of Star Wars The Last Jedi) posted for his OLED on raise brightness to around 55, you lose perfect black but holy ****, its really brings up those details, also blacks are still pretty black.

its look more like my plasma :O
Anyone reading, DO NOT DO THIS. This utterly murders any blacks you used to enjoy on OLED. OLEDs actually have a very limited brightness range so as to not elevate those blacks.
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post #19774 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by evilmonstertruk View Post
I second the ATV 4k. I hate apple but this device is awesome as all hell

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or nvidia shield. both are great. shield doesn't have dolby vision. atv4k doesn't have dolby atmos. personally i'll take atmos all day every day

if either one of them would just give us their respective dolby update via firmware (which i believe is possible in both cases), they would reign supreme!
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post #19775 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 07:45 PM
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Hi everyone. I just finished setting up my B7 and was wondering what mode is best for HDR gaming. Does changing the input tag to PC give the lowest input lag without having to use the HDR game setting? ( too dull for me)
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post #19776 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 07:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Anyone reading, DO NOT DO THIS. This utterly murders any blacks you used to enjoy on OLED. OLEDs actually have a very limited brightness range so as to not elevate those blacks.
Here's my opinion on black level and OLED after extensive self observation of content:

I agree with the boost of Brightness 55 on SDR/HDR and personally I use 62 with Dolby Vision.

Here is the logic I've determined:

Outside of OLED, anytime you've heard about the "best possible PQ", such as with Plasma and past high end LED TVs (such as the Sony A and B series, around 2013/2014) these TVs performed with consistent solid black level performances.. but can't do 0% blacks like OLED.

OLED's ability to produce 0% black is a technical capability inherit to the TV tech itself, not in any way a trait of the content that's being made to display on it. Some cars can go up to 180mph, a capability most people will never utilize. Meaning, because OLED can do this amazing 0% blacks, doesn't mean content needs to utilize that 0% black capability (for the best low dynamic black level performance).

With OLED, initially in years past between 2013-2015, OLED's appeal was the marvel at its ability to produce 0% blacks and how potent the color volume was. But in 2013-2015, in comparison with Plasma and even LED was always a low black level "uniformity" issue with PQ.

In 2016, LG came close to hitting the mark with meeting low black level capability targets.

In 2017 with the LG 7 series, LG for the first time (in my opinion) hit the mark on low black level performance uniformity ability. So now what this means is you can use a LG 7+ OLED in 1 of 2 ways:

1) You can go full OLED look with keeping Brightness at 50 to produce the "stunning" 0% black level performance, at the cost of low level black performance operates at a threshold too low for the eye to discern (aka "crushed blacks), or

2) You can let the LG 7+ OLED technical capability deliver on par with Plasma and best LEDs with boosting Brightness to 55-62. The advantage of doing this is with a 2017 OLED you can have a PQ on par with the best Plasma and LED low black level performance, with the agreement to give up 0% blacks on aspect ratio bars etc (just as Plasma and the best LEDs do also) but gain the advantage over those older TV technologies by enjoying low black levels in contrast with high brights with 0% blooming or haloing effects as seen in LED.

As I type this, I am watching the first Transformers (2007) 4K UHD disc in Dolby Vision, with my DV Cinema picture mode Brightness set to 62.. I can see absolutely every low black level detail without any flaws in clarity.. my aspect ratio black bars are not 0% black and look like as they did on my Sony 900b LED...

The great thing about OLED as of 2017 is you can dial in the PQ the way you prefer, in a retro Plasma or LED look for low level blacks, or in the full 0% black low level performance only possible with OLED.

Watching older movies like Batman (1989) and Caddyshack.. placing Brightness on 55 makes a fantastic difference in low black level performance (I go to 60 with my SDR older films).

2017+ OLEDs handles this immaculately.

Last edited by Al Leong; 01-17-2018 at 08:05 PM.
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post #19777 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by macieqq View Post
After so many days of research and so many sleepless nights filled with doubt which TV is the perfect one, I have finally pulled the trigger and bought myself a B7 despite my terrible fear of the potential burn ins.

I would like to ask you folks about the handling. Is there anything special I have to do after the very first powering of this baby? Should I change the picture settings or leave them as they are out of the box? I have heard about the break-in period and I am curious if that really is a thing.

Thanks for any tips!

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Originally Posted by macieqq View Post
I have also owned 5 plasmas, all bought in 2012 I believe (4x Samsung PS43D450 and 1x Samsung PS50C7000). I had really no idea about the burn ins and IRs at that time and my whole family have used these just as a typical TVs. The only one that ended up with burn in is the PS50C7000. It has one channel logo burned in after so many years. The funny thing is, that particular channel was being played on this TV for 5-10 hours a day everyday for so many years. The reason I am so afraid of BIs in LG is that there are so many reports of that happening after so little time. Looks like their durability is nothing close to Samsung's plasmas....
hopefully this might ease your minds a bit: i was pretty worried about burn-in as well. until, one day, i accidentally left my b7 paused for an hour while watching tv (after an hour, my dvr buffer runs out and the channel resumes playing where it was paused)

aaaaaaaand....no burn-in or image retention. a big sigh of relief and ever since, i haven't worried as much about having some static content on the display. you know, within reason
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post #19778 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by avsninja View Post
or nvidia shield. both are great. shield doesn't have dolby vision. atv4k doesn't have dolby atmos. personally i'll take atmos all day every day

if either one of them would just give us their respective dolby update via firmware (which i believe is possible in both cases), they would reign supreme!
But atmos is coming. Shield may never get DV. I love Android. The shield is awesome it's true. But the Apple upconverts like nothing else can right now. It's pretty unbelievable

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post #19779 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 08:18 PM
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Is there a way to enable the built in app for playing Videos decode True-hd/Atmos audio?

I find annoying that the TV itself can do it no problem, but the app lacks the ability to do so.

A software/firmware update should resolve this issue, is there a way to request LG this "fix"?
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post #19780 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Eclipse01 View Post
Just curious, what makes ATV4 that much better then Roku?
Several things on several different levels:

1) User interface and operating system.
2) The ONLY streamer available today that supports BOTH HDR-10 AND Dolby Vision.
3) Frame rate and dynamic range matching options.
4) Every major streaming app ( including Amazon Prime ) is available, so your online video libraries are all available.
5) iTunes - Movies and TV - extremely extensive selection with exclusive extras
6) Thousands of apps and games
7) World class U.S. based support and frequent OS and functionality updates

Pretty much the only thing missing is Atmos ( lossy ) audio. Coming to a future update near you.

As David Katzmaier (CNET) stated in his review: "The Apple TV 4K delivers the best streaming video available to compatible 4K, HDR and Dolby Vision TVs. It offers the most polished streaming experience today, the best remote on the market and excellent Siri voice options
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LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #19781 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by evilmonstertruk View Post
But atmos is coming. Shield may never get DV. I love Android. The shield is awesome it's true. But the Apple upconverts like nothing else can right now. It's pretty unbelievable

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for sure? i might have to make the switch if/when that happens

does the atv4k have a way i can play movies directly from my NAS? with the shield tv i can mount a samba share and just play movies directly that way
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post #19782 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 08:27 PM
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On the other hand, the Shield TV is a much stronger device for use with Plex and/or Kodi. The ATV doesn't offer as much direct-play support for various codecs found in digital files.
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post #19783 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 08:31 PM
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for sure? i might have to make the switch if/when that happens

does the atv4k have a way i can play movies directly from my NAS?
Absolutely not. DRM and copyrights and all that kind of stuff.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #19784 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 08:32 PM
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When using a pattern (like this one:
), I need to bump up my Brightness to 56-58 range. Is this a case of "everyone's panel is different"? Did I do something wrong? I think knocking back down to 50-51 shows more flashing bars.

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post #19785 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 08:34 PM
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by avsninja View Post
...i accidentally left my b7 paused for an hour while watching tv (after an hour, my dvr buffer runs out and the channel resumes playing where it was paused)

aaaaaaaand....no burn-in or image retention...
One instance of a one hour static image won't burn-in on any type of display...

The results of this test should be more helpful:


============================
Grouchy Golf
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post #19786 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Absolutely not. DRM and copyrights and all that kind of stuff.
Plex. Or emby

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post #19787 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThierryXN View Post
When using a pattern (like this one: https://youtu.be/8b3CUm8j4DE), I need to bump up my Brightness to 56-58 range. Is this a case of "everyone's panel is different"? Did I do something wrong? I think knocking back down to 50-51 shows more flashing bars.

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All of these types of settings are interdependent with each other AND - ( just as important ) - the lighting conditions in the viewing room.

The brightness setting at 50 should be just about right. TV's that have been manufactured in the past 5 years ( both LCD and OLED based ), have near perfect brightness and contrast performance, so changing those settings will generally not improve the PQ nor black levels.

Start with the technicolor Expert PM, and then I would try minor adjustments to the OLED LIGHT in combination with raising or lowering gamma. If your viewing room is on the bright side, try gamma 2.2 to 1.8. If it is very dark, try gamma 2.4 or BT.1886. Going about it in this manner will improve near black performance without sacrificing the TV's unlimited contrast capabilities.
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VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #19788 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:03 PM
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for sure? i might have to make the switch if/when that happens

does the atv4k have a way i can play movies directly from my NAS? with the shield tv i can mount a samba share and just play movies directly that way


Quote:
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Absolutely not. DRM and copyrights and all that kind of stuff.


That’s not true at all. There are a couple options on the ATV4K.

Infuse (I use this and have paid for the Pro version)
Plex-very popular
MrMc-Kodi fork available for ATV.
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post #19789 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipse01 View Post
Just curious, what makes ATV4 that much better then Roku?
The ATV4 is an excellent streamer. The only negative is it is a bit more of a closed environment then some of the others. The Nvidia Shield is Android so is a bit more “open” and provides additional app options but currently lacks DV. If you are committed to the Apple ecosystem then the ATV4 is the right choice. But you will certainly get other opinions...😀

Mark
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post #19790 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:07 PM
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That’s not true at all. There are a couple options on the ATV4K.

Infuse (I use this and have paid for the Pro version)
Plex-very popular
MrMc-Kodi fork available for ATV.
I was referring to a pure NAS and potential content of questionable heritage.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #19791 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I was referring to a pure NAS and potential content of questionable heritage.


All of those apps will allow playback. If one uses Infuse it allows playback of ISOs as well (no menus).

For native playback a user is limited to what Apple supports directly, these apps however open up to multiple formats that Apple doesn’t natively support.
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post #19792 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:17 PM
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Yeah... if MrMc is a Kodi fork, you should be able to use it to simply play files off of a NAS. You don't *have* to create a whole library with metadata to use the Kodi player. Just work through the "Files" section of the interface. Plex is a different story, as it does require a server component and an inexpensive NAS might not perform well in that role. Infuse I don't know anything about beyond the name.
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post #19793 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
The ATV4 is an excellent streamer. The only negative is it is a bit more of a closed environment then some of the others. The Nvidia Shield is Android so is a bit more “open” and provides additional app options but currently lacks DV. If you are committed to the Apple ecosystem then the ATV4 is the right choice. But you will certainly get other opinions...😀
Just because iTunes is only available on the ATV product family does not make it more "closed". Before Amazon Prime became available, I would have given you that point. But that was the last of the big content streaming services to fall into line. The environment is curated - which is a good thing. That way you don't have to worry about installing an app which is actually malware.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #19794 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:26 PM
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All of those apps will allow playback. If one uses Infuse it allows playback of ISOs as well (no menus).

For native playback a user is limited to what Apple supports directly, these apps however open up to multiple formats that Apple doesn’t natively support.
thanks guys! infuse (or kodi as backup) looks like exactly the ticket. when atv gets atmos, i'm in
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post #19795 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
1) You can go full OLED look with keeping Brightness at 50 to produce the "stunning" 0% black level performance, at the cost of low level black performance operates at a threshold too low for the eye to discern (aka "crushed blacks), or

2) You can let the LG 7+ OLED technical capability deliver on par with Plasma and best LEDs with boosting Brightness to 55-62. The advantage of doing this is with a 2017 OLED you can have a PQ on par with the best Plasma and LED low black level performance, with the agreement to give up 0% blacks on aspect ratio bars etc (just as Plasma and the best LEDs do also) but gain the advantage over those older TV technologies by enjoying low black levels in contrast with high brights with 0% blooming or haloing effects as seen in LED.
You know what, I'm going to try this because damnit the black crush is driving me crazy. I can't enjoy HDR and DV when I can't make out dark details. Either this, or return the set and wait another ten months for prices on the *8 to drop.
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post #19796 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:47 PM
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So I’ve just come across massive audio sync issues when passing a Dolby signal through ARC to the SJ9. It seems like this is a common issue stemming from the way the TV is handling the signal? I might be returning this whole set up tomorrow if this is the case.
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post #19797 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 09:54 PM
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and if you don't have major banding going on.
All Technologies of today have screen uniformity issues.....
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post #19798 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
Here's my opinion on black level and OLED after extensive self observation of content:

I agree with the boost of Brightness 55 on SDR/HDR and personally I use 62 with Dolby Vision.

Here is the logic I've determined:

Outside of OLED, anytime you've heard about the "best possible PQ", such as with Plasma and past high end LED TVs (such as the Sony A and B series, around 2013/2014) these TVs performed with consistent solid black level performances.. but can't do 0% blacks like OLED.

OLED's ability to produce 0% black is a technical capability inherit to the TV tech itself, not in any way a trait of the content that's being made to display on it. Some cars can go up to 180mph, a capability most people will never utilize. Meaning, because OLED can do this amazing 0% blacks, doesn't mean content needs to utilize that 0% black capability (for the best low dynamic black level performance).

With OLED, initially in years past between 2013-2015, OLED's appeal was the marvel at its ability to produce 0% blacks and how potent the color volume was. But in 2013-2015, in comparison with Plasma and even LED was always a low black level "uniformity" issue with PQ.

In 2016, LG came close to hitting the mark with meeting low black level capability targets.

In 2017 with the LG 7 series, LG for the first time (in my opinion) hit the mark on low black level performance uniformity ability. So now what this means is you can use a LG 7+ OLED in 1 of 2 ways:

1) You can go full OLED look with keeping Brightness at 50 to produce the "stunning" 0% black level performance, at the cost of low level black performance operates at a threshold too low for the eye to discern (aka "crushed blacks), or

2) You can let the LG 7+ OLED technical capability deliver on par with Plasma and best LEDs with boosting Brightness to 55-62. The advantage of doing this is with a 2017 OLED you can have a PQ on par with the best Plasma and LED low black level performance, with the agreement to give up 0% blacks on aspect ratio bars etc (just as Plasma and the best LEDs do also) but gain the advantage over those older TV technologies by enjoying low black levels in contrast with high brights with 0% blooming or haloing effects as seen in LED.

As I type this, I am watching the first Transformers (2007) 4K UHD disc in Dolby Vision, with my DV Cinema picture mode Brightness set to 62.. I can see absolutely every low black level detail without any flaws in clarity.. my aspect ratio black bars are not 0% black and look like as they did on my Sony 900b LED...

The great thing about OLED as of 2017 is you can dial in the PQ the way you prefer, in a retro Plasma or LED look for low level blacks, or in the full 0% black low level performance only possible with OLED.

Watching older movies like Batman (1989) and Caddyshack.. placing Brightness on 55 makes a fantastic difference in low black level performance (I go to 60 with my SDR older films).

2017+ OLEDs handles this immaculately.
I absolutely respect your decision here, but fundamentally object to it.

The thing is there's this obsession in this thread (and others, mind) with pulling out detail from the shadows. Here's the thing: Some of that detail is simply not MEANT to be seen. For example, I play video games. Fired up Resident Evil Revelations 2 this evening for the first time, and - like many games - it asks me to look at three objects on screen and adjust the brightness to make sure the one on the left is invisible, the middle one is "slightly visible," and the right one is "visible."

Now, some people may think, when adjusted "correctly," that some details are lost in the darkness. But this is on PURPOSE. If you "cheat" the game in this case, and tweak the brightness up so the left object is visible, yes - you can absolutely see more in the game, but it absolutely also compromises the "objective" here. If you tweak the brightness in any game, you can see more, find that enemy hiding in the corner of the dark room etc. But it comes at a cost. A lot of what is perceived as black crush is really just as the director intended - dark areas of the scene.

To each his own, of course. There are occasions where details that "likely" should be visible are hidden, and that's annoying. But brightness set to 62? AW HELL NA! There's far less point to an OLED when your blacks are grey.
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post #19799 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I just picked up the UHD Blu-ray today. Haven't watched it yet. I'll be playing it on my Sammy K8500 which only does HDR-10. I'll report my impressions of the PQ afterwards. One thing that I can say about my C7 - which has been said before - is that it has almost totally ruined going to the movies. The much bigger screen is certainly nice, but the theater experience is almost like watching on an old edge lit TV without any local dimming.
I agree.....but have you been to a Dolby Cinema yet? Might change your opinion!

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post #19800 of 36693 Old 01-17-2018, 10:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
I absolutely respect your decision here, but fundamentally object to it.

The thing is there's this obsession in this thread (and others, mind) with pulling out detail from the shadows. Here's the thing: Some of that detail is simply not MEANT to be seen. For example, I play video games. Fired up Resident Evil Revelations 2 this evening for the first time, and - like many games - it asks me to look at three objects on screen and adjust the brightness to make sure the one on the left is invisible, the middle one is "slightly visible," and the right one is "visible."

Now, some people may think, when adjusted "correctly," that some details are lost in the darkness. But this is on PURPOSE. If you "cheat" the game in this case, and tweak the brightness up so the left object is visible, yes - you can absolutely see more in the game, but it absolutely also compromises the "objective" here. If you tweak the brightness in any game, you can see more, find that enemy hiding in the corner of the dark room etc. But it comes at a cost. A lot of what is perceived as black crush is really just as the director intended - dark areas of the scene.

To each his own, of course. There are occasions where details that "likely" should be visible are hidden, and that's annoying. But brightness set to 62? AW HELL NA! There's far less point to an OLED when your blacks are grey.
You make a great point! One which I say that there are no rules or law stopping on-the-fly adjustments of the OLED hardware to deliver PQ based on the content in current presentation. There's no right or wrong when the hardware can do anything you want it to do.

That's what I love about current day OLED capabilities.
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