2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 662 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19831 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I'm on Apple's beta test program. I'm currently running tvOS 11.2.5 ( beta 6 ), which fixes the problem. It will be released to the wild once the bug hunt is finished - which will be soon.
wonder when apple will release dolby atmos on the tv...
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post #19832 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by carlson275 View Post
Anyone know why it is like That? And is there any hope for improvement?
The process is imperfect, and the tolerances are extremely ridiculous. When LG first started making OLED panels, they were rejecting 90% of what was coming off the line. This made for very expensive TV's. Today, if you know someone high up at LG, you might be able to get a hand picked "perfect" panel, but would it be worth $20K or more to have that TV? Probably not. In all seriousness, LG does have a new production line starting up this year. It is supposed to reduce the cost of OLED panels drastically. Let's hope that it will also make panels with fewer flaws - I'm thinking it will.

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post #19833 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
I think it is a mistake on LG's part to be tone mapping based on whether a disc is mastered at 1000, 1100, 4000, and now even 10000 nits. Those values don't represent the highest brightness present in the content; only the capabilities of the mastering display used.

MaxCLL is certainly better and less arbitrary but using it at all with Active HDR is unnecessary as well.
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post #19834 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by aftontrix2 View Post
I talked to LG and they told me not to use the USB for that purpose. It is only .5A whereas the Luminoodle requires 1A. They said the USB is not designed for powering or charging. It is meant to use with flash drives. I use a seperate USB converter plugged into the wall. The remote turns the LED light strip off just fine.
The one USB port is blue I thought that signifies a 1A standard USB 3 port?

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post #19835 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
The LG OLEDs seem to perform HDR10 tone mapping based upon the Max Luminance value in the HDR metadata (as previously reported by others in this forum). Even though this value represents the mastering display's capabilities. The MaxCLL metadata value represents the highest brightness reached in the disc.

The new Blade Runner 2049 UHD disc (USA version) has HDR10 metadata with Max Luminance at 10,000 nits and MaxCLL at 181 nits. That is a huge difference if LG adjusts tone mapping based on the 10,000 nit value instead of the 181 nits maximum brightness level.

I used an HDfury Vertex 4k video processor to capture the HDR10 metadata and to replace the 10,000 nit Max Luminance value with 1000 nits instead before the signal is sent to my LG B7A. All other HDR10 metadata was sent unchanged.

It made a very significant impact on the overall brightness of the picture, brighter highlights, and more detail in dark scenes.

I think it is a mistake on LG's part to be tone mapping based on whether a disc is mastered at 1000, 1100, 4000, and now even 10000 nits. Those values don't represent the highest brightness present in the content; only the capabilities of the mastering display used.
I agree. And LG marketing as a premium high end display should give us more control. Maybe settings like Oppo does for HDR nits value. In this case maybe enable/disable tone mapping or have low/med/high to represent how aggressive it gets.
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post #19836 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post
I agree. And LG marketing as a premium high end display should give us more control. Maybe settings like Oppo does for HDR nits value. In this case maybe enable/disable tone mapping or have low/med/high to represent how aggressive it gets.

Yep, it is equally important to preserve the APL in low and medium tones to avoid lowering the APL.
I don't like ABL and I don't like tone-mapping lowing the APL; they are evil twins.


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post #19837 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:46 AM
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2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I'm on Apple's beta test program. I'm currently running tvOS 11.2.5 ( beta 6 ), which fixes the problem. It will be released to the wild once the bug hunt is finished - which will be soon.


That is surprising since the fix is reportly on the TV end.


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post #19838 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Deckard71 View Post
Yes, but there areas where Apple TV is behind other streamers:

- No support of Lossless Audio. So all you get is 1998 audio formats

- No support of Atmos
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Originally Posted by Deckard71 View Post
1. No. PCM stream is only for DD and DTS. Not for DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD

2. That is a gossip or a promise at best. TODAY it does not support Atmos
Frame rate and dynamic range matching was just a rumor/gossip also. And yet a month later there it was. When it finally does support Atmos, will you tip your hat, or try to find something else wrong with it?

Also, I'm just curious - but what streaming service out there pushes out LOSSLESS Atmos or DTS-MA??

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post #19839 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rsonnens View Post
That is surprising since the fix is reportly on the TV end.


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It's a Dolby problem. Impacts everything.

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post #19840 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Isles View Post
So I’ve just come across massive audio sync issues when passing a Dolby signal through ARC to the SJ9. It seems like this is a common issue stemming from the way the TV is handling the signal? I might be returning this whole set up tomorrow if this is the case.
The other ATMOS soundbars that "compete" with the SJ9, the Samsung HW-K850 and HW-K950 don't pass ATMOS over HDMI ARC. At least the SJ9 can do that. For the cost of the Samsung's, that is inexcusable, IMO.

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post #19841 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
It's a Dolby problem. Impacts everything.


That might be true but no one has posted from a reliable source that the fix is on anything other than the decoder. Also, If what your saying is true then all DV Blu-ray players will also need and update.


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post #19842 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Technicolor Advanced HDR to the rescue!

Just curious, where do you look to find out the Max Luminance metadata of content? I know I can use my meter to read CLL. I thought that 10,000 nits was a DV spec. I didn't know that HDR10 tried to get anywhere near that. The only TV I'm aware of that can produce 10,000 nits is a demo panel that Sony was showing at CES this year. They wouldn't say, but I believe that they were using a laser based backlight to get it to 10,000. Don't expect to see that as a real product anytime soon.

They weren't doing any tone mapping because they didn't have to. If true, I think that Warner Bros made a huge mistake mastering it with a 10,000 nit ceiling - because for all of us with mere mortal TV's, we will always have to use tone mapping of some kind - unless Technicolor HDR gains traction - hoping it does.
The Oppo 203 UHD player reports Max Lum and Min Lum in its Information OSD. But I run my Oppo through an HDfury Vertex before it gets to my B7A. It reports the full HDR10 metadata string and also relevant individual field values; both from a Windows GUI interface and to a TV on screen display overlay. With the OSD I can see the metadata changes that occur from the disc menu, to studio screens, to actual content.

I have also been keeping a Google Sheet that contains title metadata; currently from some 125 discs. I started this before I purchased the Oppo and then decided to keep on adding new titles.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I just paste the metadata string I copied from the Vertex GUI into the spreadsheet. If you click on one of the individual metadata field values, you can see the formula used to extract the data from the metadata string and convert to a readable numeric or decimal value. Note that the HDfury devices include a header in the reported metadata that is compensated to by the formulas to access the correct metadata string character positions. HDR10 metadata spec documentation don't include that header when defining the field positions.

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post #19843 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
The Oppo 203 UHD player reports Max Lum and Min Lum in its Information OSD. But I run my Oppo through an HDfury Vertex before it gets to my B7A. It reports the full HDR10 metadata string and also relevant individual field values; both from a Windows GUI interface and to a TV on screen display overlay. With the OSD I can see the metadata changes that occur from the disc menu, to studio screens, to actual content.

I have also been keeping a Google Sheet that contains title metadata; currently from some 125 discs. I started this before I purchased the Oppo and then decided to keep on adding new titles.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I just paste the metadata string I copied from the Vertex GUI into the spreadsheet. If you click on one of the individual metadata field values, you can see the formula used to extract the data from the metadata string and convert to a readable numeric or decimal value. Note that the HDfury devices include a header in the reported metadata that is compensated to by the formulas to access the correct metadata string character positions. HDR10 metadata spec documentation don't include that header when defining the field positions.
Awesome info. Thank you for going to the trouble to do that!

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post #19844 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 11:14 AM
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The one USB port is blue I thought that signifies a 1A standard USB 3 port?
USB 3 standard says 0.9A. USB2 and older was 0.5A. 1A is beyond the spec although probably most USB3 ports can do 1A. But they don't have to.

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post #19845 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 11:20 AM
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what are you guys using for wls headphones for late night watching?

i'm also thinking of experimenting with optical out to my chord mojo, then to my wired headphones..
think this would work? volume controlled by remote?
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post #19846 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Dude. You don't have control over what gets put on the Google play store - and they don't bother to check if it's legit until there's enough complaints - then they will finally take a look - and pull the offending app. But by then, it's too late for millions of people and $'s. Do you also refuse to wear seatbelts when you drive your car?

Curation is a GOOD thing in this day and age. In the Android environment, all you have control over is downloading every piece of craptastic malware available, because that is the only ecosystem where it is allowed. You know - all first run movies - but somehow they're free.

Apple won't let that crap go on their servers - and therefore their products - because they care about their customer's privacy, security. and product enjoyment. Apple is not the malware police, but at the same time, they are not going to let a stray dog into your house where it can go #2 on your Persian rug.

It's really more like the wild wild west with bad water and no refrigeration vs. modern civilization. I choose the later.
Dude..LOL...this conversation is way ot so we best end it.

I never said anything about using the google play store and i was talking about me, not you or anyone else. I agree that for most people some level of protection from unwittingly harming themselves is a good thing. Maybe it is for you too, maybe not, I don’t know you or your capabilities. Guess what, you don’t know me either and it is highly presumptuous of you to think you do. No worries though, everyone has different levels of skill and experience and require different levels of protection. For those that need and want it those somewhat protected environments are there. It’s all good.
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post #19847 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Frame rate and dynamic range matching was just a rumor/gossip also.
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
It's a Dolby problem. Impacts everything.
Actually Match wasn't a subject of gossip and it was easy -- they just automated what you could do by hand.

What have you done to test floating black from an ATV to [BC]7? I haven't seen any other reports that black is fixed in 15K5552a.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #19848 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Frame rate and dynamic range matching was just a rumor/gossip also. And yet a month later there it was. When it finally does support Atmos, will you tip your hat, or try to find something else wrong with it?



Also, I'm just curious - but what streaming service out there pushes out LOSSLESS Atmos or DTS-MA??


You can’t stand with downsides of Apple TV? You can list 7 “wonders” of Apple TV but cannot digest 2 disadvantages that the Apple TV actually and currently have?

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post #19849 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mjwagner View Post
Dude..LOL...this conversation is way ot so we best end it.

I never said anything about using the google play store and i was talking about me, not you or anyone else. I agree that for most people some level of protection from unwittingly harming themselves is a good thing. Maybe it is for you too, maybe not, I don’t know you or your capabilities. Guess what, you don’t know me either and it is highly presumptuous of you to think you do. No worries though, everyone has different levels of skill and experience and require different levels of protection. For those that need and want it those somewhat protected environments are there. It’s all good.
I agree - our convo did get a bit over the top. My apologies. My point got lost in the rhetoric. So here it is: Regardless of skill or experience ( 35 years for me in tech ) the only thing you give up in a curated ( policed ) ecosystem is malware. I've seen the huge negative impact of malware over the years, and I don't have the time to deal with, or prevent in my own life, so I prefer a curated and frankly a more secure eco-system.
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post #19850 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Actually Match wasn't a subject of gossip and it was easy -- they just automated what you could do by hand.

What have you done to test floating black from an ATV to [BC]7? I haven't seen any other reports that black is fixed in 15K5552a.
I haven't done anything. Can't get my TV to exhibit the issue.

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post #19851 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:04 PM
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You can’t stand with downsides of Apple TV? You can list 7 “wonders” of Apple TV but cannot digest 2 disadvantages that the Apple TV actually and currently have?
I simply listed 7 reasons why the ATV 4K is better than the Roku. In that post, I also acknowledged that Atmos is about the only thing left to address in terms of short comings. Now, I still haven't seen an answer to my question in which I asked ( seriously ) what streamer is available today that puts out lossless Atmos. I don't believe that such a beast exists because the streaming services don't provide lossless Atmos in their signals. Nothing to digest. Just noticing a bit of an anti-Apple bias.
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post #19852 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:04 PM
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Thanks for the feedback on the Luminoodle.....but how does the TV turn on an external adaptor? I am using an ETec (or similar name) remote right now, but that is RF.

Partying my new XBR75-X940D, soon new Denon X4200 AVR
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post #19853 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
How much of a bummer would be getting a C7 55” rather than 65”?

My wife purchased as a surprise for me and I really hate to hurt her feelings. The 55” is so much cheaper. BB had to order it so there is time to cancel. FYI, we have a 55” LG 1080p now so viewing distance is no problem.
Keep the wife happy. If she is sensitive to this - it is A LOT CHEAPER to upscale later. (My third marriage, to a family law attorney, I know this stuff now. LOL)
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post #19854 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:15 PM
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I haven't done anything. Can't get my TV to exhibit the issue.
Watch the credits in Mindhunter S1E1. It's obvious unless you've adjusted brightness.
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post #19855 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I simply listed 7 reasons why the ATV 4K is better than the Roku. In that post, I also acknowledged that Atmos is about the only thing left to address in terms of short comings. Now, I still haven't seen an answer to my question in which I asked ( seriously ) what streamer is available today that puts out lossless Atmos. I don't believe that such a beast exists because the streaming services don't provide lossless Atmos in their signals. Nothing to digest. Just noticing a bit of an anti-Apple bias.


I am noticing a bit of pro-Apple bias here ;-) And I am out of suspicion, at home we have 4 iPhones, 2 iPads, 1 iMac air and 2 Apple TV

Many streamers do handle lossless Atmos: Nvidia shield, zidoo X8/9/10, etc etc.

I agree that we don’t miss a lot lossless audio in the Apple TV, basically because iTunes movies have lossy audio. And very lossy, most of the times is 384kbps, what is a shame. Early DVDs 20 (TWENTY!) years ago offered better audio. And that is a shame, as movies in iTunes are lossy, why should we care about lossless audio in Apple TV? If iTunes movies were mono, would we be happy if Apple TV were only capable of outputting mono audio?

Not lossless audio is a real downside of Apple TV AND iTunes

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post #19856 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
All of these types of settings are interdependent with each other AND - ( just as important ) - the lighting conditions in the viewing room.

The brightness setting at 50 should be just about right. TV's that have been manufactured in the past 5 years ( both LCD and OLED based ), have near perfect brightness and contrast performance, so changing those settings will generally not improve the PQ nor black levels.

Start with the technicolor Expert PM, and then I would try minor adjustments to the OLED LIGHT in combination with raising or lowering gamma. If your viewing room is on the bright side, try gamma 2.2 to 1.8. If it is very dark, try gamma 2.4 or BT.1886. Going about it in this manner will improve near black performance without sacrificing the TV's unlimited contrast capabilities.
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Originally Posted by PeteNeat View Post
Raising brightness above 51/52 removes the ability for the TV to display absolute black no matter what gamma is selected.
An easy test is to put your face up to the screen while watching a black slide in the dark (after eyes have adjusted) and raise brightness up and down around 51.
A good calibration of SDR with a meter can keep brightness at 51/52, retain absolute black and display the bars up to 17 correctly.
Got it. Yea, I don't have absolute control of my room (living room with some windows and adjacent to a bright dining room, and there is some sort of light on about 90% of the time we're using the TV), so it sounds like I should set gamma to 2.2.

I knocked Brightness back down to 50. I think even I turned most of the lights off and put my face to the screen, 19 and below didn't flash. Pushing it to the 56 range had 16 and below stay black while 17 and higher flash. I'll just keep it as is, along with gamma at 2.2. I also put OLED at around 50 (I put it at 35 for ISF Dark). I was just trying to reconcile how using the test patterns had me pushing the settings higher than recommended.

I have minor banding and yellow tint on the left side, but I got my TV in Nov and I don't want to further gamble with the panel lottery. It looks great most of the time still.
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post #19857 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:27 PM
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This thread is huge. Just broke down and got a C7P to replace my KS8000.

Any immediate info/tips I should know? Especially on the firmware side of things if I should be avoiding a certain version.

Thanks
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post #19858 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I'm on Apple's beta test program. I'm currently running tvOS 11.2.5 ( beta 6 ), which fixes the problem. It will be released to the wild once the bug hunt is finished - which will be soon.
I good test for this on the Apple TV is the movie valerian.

The whole second half of the movie starting with the space chase sequence up until the last 15 - 20 minutes of the movie by the alien portal is a solid light grey. The whole movie is effected, not just the cropping bars

It’s is without a doubt the worst offender of this issue I have ever experienced.

I haven’t watched it since the original frame matching beta firmware release, however if this issue has been fixed this is the content to test it on.
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Last edited by rego00123; 01-18-2018 at 12:44 PM.
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post #19859 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Deckard71 View Post
I am noticing a bit of pro-Apple bias here ;-) And I am out of suspicion, at home we have 4 iPhones, 2 iPads, 1 iMac air and 2 Apple TV

Many streamers do handle lossless Atmos: Nvidia shield, zidoo X8/9/10, etc etc.

I agree that we don’t miss a lot lossless audio in the Apple TV, basically because iTunes movies have lossy audio. And very lossy, most of the times is 384kbps, what is a shame. Early DVDs 20 (TWENTY!) years ago offered better audio. And that is a shame, as movies in iTunes are lossy, why should we care about lossless audio in Apple TV? If iTunes movies were mono, would we be happy if Apple TV were only capable of outputting mono audio?

Not lossless audio is a real downside of Apple TV AND iTunes
Yes. I do have a pro Apple bias as I worked there for almost 25 years. In many ways, Apple is held to a higher standard which opens the door for all the Apple haters to crank up the whining. Thank you for providing me with a couple of examples of streamers that handle lossless Atmos. Serious question: Doesn't the streaming source need to be pushing a lossless signal? Otherwise it's kind of like tits on a bull? Hope you get my humor.
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LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #19860 of 36739 Old 01-18-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by stevekaden View Post
I use a Luminoodle for ambient light on a Sony 940d. Using the set's USB it turns on, but won't turn off reliably and if it does, later spontaneously turns on. I had to use a separate control.

I am about to mount a new (to be delivered) C7P tomorrow - it would help to know if the Luminoodle-USB actually works consistently. Anyone try this yet?

Thanks.
I had 2 strips... They worked great, yet powering down using the USB on TV was always a bit wonky, hit or miss. It was determined that the TV holds some residual power even when shut down which causes the erratic behavior. I ended up plugging one of mine into my AVR's USB which also powers down when TV goes off and this fixed the erratic issue. The other i had to just plug into the wall direct using USB adapter. The nuisance it gave at powering down was annoying, yet for those with no other options well worth it for the deeper blacks or eyestrain issues it alleviates.

LG C7 65"|Xbox One X|PS4 Pro|Nvidia Shield

Last edited by Datagg; 01-18-2018 at 12:55 PM.
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