2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 875 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26221 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Yamakazi View Post
Hi guys!

Quick question:

i am an apple fan and I am thinking of buying the Apple TV 4K. The plan is to use Apps tv together with Netflix or other apps.

So my question is: will I see a difference in visual quality when I watch a movie in Netflix via the Apple TV? I am thinking of dolby vision movies..

Thanks!
VS the built-in apps? Probably not. You will see a huge difference with how quickly the AppleTV 4K spools up the content - it's almost instant. The biggest advantage to the AppleTV 4K is the very large 4k/HDR/DV library available in iTunes Movies!!

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post #26222 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 05:03 PM
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I have both a 65" ZD9 and a LG E7 OLED. I had bought the E7 first, even though I had a deposit down for a ZD9 I decided to go with the LG. After about 3-4 months owning it the dimmer HDR in game mode was starting to bug me. My wife agreed to let me get the ZD9 and been happy with the gaming of HDR and the increased brightness. Even though it was better for HDR gaming due to the ZD9 extra nits by a large amount, there was something about how the colors really popped on the OLED.

Today I was testing with old school vintage gaming systems. I have a framemeister which is upscaller for old school game systems. I was testing my NES going A/V into the Framemeister and then HDMI out at 1080p to the ZD9. While it looked good, I was curious, so when down stairs to the bedroom where i have the E7 LG and boy or boy does old school gaming look a lot better on it. I decided to hook my wife's Xbox One X to the LG since it was easier to move her unit and played a few HDR games...then went upstairs and played the same games on my "X" on the ZD9. While the HDR does look a lot brighter on the "Z" I am now debating if I should swap the LG to the game room and the "Z" to the bedroom. While I know the HDR game will no where be as bright, with also watching a bit more movies in the game room since we added a new receiver and a 7.2.2 speaker set up with Dobly Atmos upfiring speakers, I wonder if making the switch is something I should do? The whole reason I moved to the Z and put that in the game room was due to the dim HDR in game mode on the LG. Standard picture mode on the LG looks great in HDR gaming, but the input lag is a lot higher and noticeable to me. With me finally setting up my older gaming systems that look better on the LG, I am wondering if the dimmer gaming HDR is worth having movies and vintage gaming looking a bit better?

Just looking for some thoughts on the matter. Owning both, the only issue is moving the Z from an upstairs room to a downstairs bedroom and then moving the LG. It just the HDR game mode that gives me pause on the LG. I was surprised how good old school gaming looks on the LG and things appeared even clearer on the LG versus the Z with old school games. I know the E8 has a brighter game mode, would that be something they could improve on the E7 with a firmware or are we stuck with what we have? I wish changing the LG input to PC would work properly since in PC mode even standard picture has the lower input lag, but for some reason the PC input introduces color banding, very noticeable with games that have clouds in the sky, so that makes it a no go.

Anyways...thoughts?

Thanks!

-Hawkmoon
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post #26223 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Yamakazi View Post
Hi guys!

Quick question:

i am an apple fan and I am thinking of buying the Apple TV 4K. The plan is to use Apps tv together with Netflix or other apps.

So my question is: will I see a difference in visual quality when I watch a movie in Netflix via the Apple TV? I am thinking of dolby vision movies..

Thanks!
It will load faster but the visual quality is going to be the same. The difference is you can get Dolby Atmos from the built in apps and not the AppleTV. Don't know if that matters to you. Netflix and the like have a cap on what bandwidth you can get and it doesn't change based on the device. It's the same encode either way. If you have a large library of titles on movies anywhere that you can link to iTunes then it may be worth it to you. There are some movies that aren't available in HDR on other sources but have a version on iTunes. Some of them are good quality, some not so good but there is a big selection.
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post #26224 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Who's the they in "That’s what they have been calling it" and in what context? Certainly not Dolby or LG or even Sony.

I understand you to be saying new profiles when you say "latest profile3" and Dolby is not releasing new profiles. They're fixing bugs in existing profile "decoders". LG waits for a firmware drop with fixes from Dolby and we wait for a firmware drop from LG. If you mean bug fixes when you say "latest profile" then we're just using differing terminology.

There's a (short public) list of profiles. Other than adding MEL and deprecating old profiles it hasn't changed in some time.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...2-9-170601.pdf

Dolby calls it a dolby vision profile. I've seen the term used by John Archer of Forbes as well. I'm just repeating what I've seen it called elsewhere. I think calling it a firmware would be a bit confusing for some too. The firmware we install on the TV is from LG not Dolby.

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post #26225 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
I have both a 65" ZD9 and a LG E7 OLED. I had bought the E7 first, even though I had a deposit down for a ZD9 I decided to go with the LG. After about 3-4 months owning it the dimmer HDR in game mode was starting to bug me. My wife agreed to let me get the ZD9 and been happy with the gaming of HDR and the increased brightness. Even though it was better for HDR gaming due to the ZD9 extra nits by a large amount, there was something about how the colors really popped on the OLED.

Today I was testing with old school vintage gaming systems. I have a framemeister which is upscaller for old school game systems. I was testing my NES going A/V into the Framemeister and then HDMI out at 1080p to the ZD9. While it looked good, I was curious, so when down stairs to the bedroom where i have the E7 LG and boy or boy does old school gaming look a lot better on it. I decided to hook my wife's Xbox One X to the LG since it was easier to move her unit and played a few HDR games...then went upstairs and played the same games on my "X" on the ZD9. While the HDR does look a lot brighter on the "Z" I am now debating if I should swap the LG to the game room and the "Z" to the bedroom. While I know the HDR game will no where be as bright, with also watching a bit more movies in the game room since we added a new receiver and a 7.2.2 speaker set up with Dobly Atmos upfiring speakers, I wonder if making the switch is something I should do? The whole reason I moved to the Z and put that in the game room was due to the dim HDR in game mode on the LG. Standard picture mode on the LG looks great in HDR gaming, but the input lag is a lot higher and noticeable to me. With me finally setting up my older gaming systems that look better on the LG, I am wondering if the dimmer gaming HDR is worth having movies and vintage gaming looking a bit better?

Just looking for some thoughts on the matter. Owning both, the only issue is moving the Z from an upstairs room to a downstairs bedroom and then moving the LG. It just the HDR game mode that gives me pause on the LG. I was surprised how good old school gaming looks on the LG and things appeared even clearer on the LG versus the Z with old school games. I know the E8 has a brighter game mode, would that be something they could improve on the E7 with a firmware or are we stuck with what we have? I wish changing the LG input to PC would work properly since in PC mode even standard picture has the lower input lag, but for some reason the PC input introduces color banding, very noticeable with games that have clouds in the sky, so that makes it a no go.

Anyways...thoughts?

Thanks!
The picture appears dimmer because LG is tone mapping the entire range and as a result, more detail is resolved. Look at a bright highlight in a game with lots of detail contained within the picture and change between game mode and standard. You will see that in game mode more detail is visible while in standard detail is lost as the highlight overpowers the fine details. I don't know how Sony handles this. I will say that if you plan to use any 1080p game sources that the Z9D has 40ms of input lag. The E7 has 21ms across all modes and resolutions. I sometimes use my PC at 1080p for gaming because 4k takes too much horsepower and I don't have it so this was a concern of mine too. Not to mention the Nintendo switch being 1080p. I can tell the difference between 40ms and 21ms of input lag in some games.

Back to the question about game mode on the LG TVs, it's not going to be changed in an update. LG made it clear that they feel it's better this way and to be honest after playing this way for a while I've come to really like how games look in HDR on my B7A. I've come to appreciate the better fine details in the picture vs having an overall brighter screen.

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post #26226 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
It will load faster but the visual quality is going to be the same. The difference is you can get Dolby Atmos from the built in apps and not the AppleTV. Don't know if that matters to you. Netflix and the like have a cap on what bandwidth you can get and it doesn't change based on the device. It's the same encode either way. If you have a large library of titles on movies anywhere that you can link to iTunes then it may be worth it to you. There are some movies that aren't available in HDR on other sources but have a version on iTunes. Some of them are good quality, some not so good but there is a big selection.
Thanks!

I am not really sure about Dolby Atmos, but I have looked at the LG SJ9.. is it worth it? Will I hear a big difference?
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post #26227 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Yamakazi View Post
Thanks!

I am not really sure about Dolby Atmos, but I have looked at the LG SJ9.. is it worth it? Will I hear a big difference?
Personally I feel that unless you build a whole system for atmos it's not going to be that great sounding.
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post #26228 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 06:09 PM
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Personally I feel that unless you build a whole system for atmos it's not going to be that great sounding.
What kind of whole system?
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post #26229 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 06:18 PM
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What kind of whole system?
I mean like if you buy an AVR, separate speakers, run the wires etc. I'm just not a fan of soundbars trying to simulate it. Some people say they sound great though but it's always going to sound more immersive with separate speakers positioned correctly in your room.

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post #26230 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 06:34 PM
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Agreed... and that's what I do. I've bought 60+ UHD discs in 2 months of OLED ownership and all but 2 (Dunkirk, Coco) I got for $15-$25. I've gotten most around the $15 range with quite a few being from Amazon's never ending 3 for $50 sale.

I just can't see the point of going streaming only due to the lesser quality and more importantly being locked into the store I buy the movie at. With the disc purchase I get the UHD and 1080p disc as well as the digital code for redemption. To me it's a no brainer.
I agree with everything you said except for the "Locked In" part, and quality-wise, streaming is getting very, very good.

Every major content provider is trying to get us "locked" in" to their respective ecosystems. We really don't have much of a choice in the matter. More and more the selection of titles at the brick and mortar shops is getting pretty thin - and Amazon doesn't have everything either - so streaming sources are becoming the better choice for variety and title counts. You can't really go wrong with Apple's iTunes Movies. They didn't become the world's top music retailer by accident.

As it is, the current 4K/HDR/WCG Blu-ray is probably the last of its kind. When 8K/HDMI 2.1 finally hits, streaming will be poised for a take-over.

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post #26231 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:11 PM
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So I noticed something that happened a couple times to me while gaming and I don't know if I can eliminate it. When playing Xbox One in HDR for a time I sometimes get the screen to go very dark. Like some screensaver kicking in. Going to the TV menu forces the TV to go back to normal brightness and then I return the game and the brightness levels are fine again. Is this the TV or the Xbox and what causes it exactly? Is it a setting or something I'm doing that causes the TV to kick that on? It's only happened a couple times and I can't think of the situation that caused it.
I had this happen on my PS4PRO in HDR mode when I was editing roster information on The Show...I think the TV saw that the page hadnt changed in a while, even though I was editing things, so it dimmed the screen.
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post #26232 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:17 PM
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Quick update - disabling "Quick Start" seemed to resolved my Wi-Fi connectivity issue...and it doesn't seem like the TV takes a long time to start either...

Its been a few days and I've never been forced to disconnect and reconnect to Wi-Fi to get it to work correctly

Josh
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post #26233 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:25 PM
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T2 4k blu ray...eye candy!!!
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post #26234 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:33 PM
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Every major content provider is trying to get us "locked" in" to their respective ecosystems. We really don't have much of a choice in the matter. More and more the selection of titles at the brick and mortar shops is getting pretty thin - and Amazon doesn't have everything either - so streaming sources are becoming the better choice for variety and title counts.
Amazon doesn't have everything? In terms of physical disc selection? While there are a handful of interesting TV items that are only available streaming (The West Wing is only available in HD on iTunes, for example), Amazon has just about any physical disc in print in the US. I watch way more obscure films than most and the only times I need to go beyond Amazon are for occasional import discs from Asia or the UK. Filmstruck has a tremendous selection for world cinema enthusiasts, but even it doesn't have everything and its streaming quality is uneven.

I will continue to purchase the best physical copies of any film I'm interested in, rip those discs to my Plex server, and enjoy almost all of the convenience with none of the lock-in.

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As it is, the current 4K/HDR/WCG Blu-ray is probably the last of its kind. When 8K/HDMI 2.1 finally hits, streaming will be poised for a take-over.
I agree that 4K UHD is likely the last mainstream physical disc format. But I wouldn't rule out a next-gen format carving out a niche enthusiast position like SACD's and DVD-A's for audio.
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post #26235 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:39 PM
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T2 4k blu ray...eye candy!!!
I just watched T1 with my wife and kids on the C7 on Friday night. Hadn't seen it in probably 25 years... still a damn good movie and we all enjoyed it. I hear the T2 disc is arguably too clean and DNR'd, but somehow that doesn't bother me for T2. The film was the height of technology and effects in 1991 and that was part of the appeal. So it doesn't feel inappropriate to clean it up a little further to maintain that feeling. Maybe we'll watch it on July 3rd, 27 years after its original release. Then maybe do Independence Day on the 4th? Could be a fun summer blockbuster-fest.
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What is your native language? I will try to translate from English and will send you a private message.


I sent you PM.

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post #26237 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:44 PM
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@tppytel . I don't mind the "clean" look, imo it looks superb...i remember going to the movies to see it, it looked futuristic then, and it has really aged well!!!
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post #26238 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:48 PM
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i remember going to the movies to see it, it looked futuristic then...
Exactly what I remember, which is why I don't mind a little extra processing even though I'm usually more of an originalist.
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post #26239 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:53 PM
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2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

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I agree with everything you said except for the "Locked In" part, and quality-wise, streaming is getting very, very good.



Every major content provider is trying to get us "locked" in" to their respective ecosystems. We really don't have much of a choice in the matter. More and more the selection of titles at the brick and mortar shops is getting pretty thin - and Amazon doesn't have everything either - so streaming sources are becoming the better choice for variety and title counts. You can't really go wrong with Apple's iTunes Movies. They didn't become the world's top music retailer by accident.



As it is, the current 4K/HDR/WCG Blu-ray is probably the last of its kind. When 8K/HDMI 2.1 finally hits, streaming will be poised for a take-over.


Doubt it. Audio is still lacking and internet providers enforcing data caps will create problems. 8k HDR will take a lot more bandwidth than you are getting now for 4K. I think discs will be around until streaming matches the quality bit for bit including audio.

What I do see changing is optical media. I think in the future it will be on a chip. The media is not as cheap now but eventually it will be I think.
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post #26240 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 07:58 PM
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I just watched T1 with my wife and kids on the C7 on Friday night. Hadn't seen it in probably 25 years... still a damn good movie and we all enjoyed it. I hear the T2 disc is arguably too clean and DNR'd, but somehow that doesn't bother me for T2. The film was the height of technology and effects in 1991 and that was part of the appeal. So it doesn't feel inappropriate to clean it up a little further to maintain that feeling.
Great movies for sure, as each day passes it seems more and more like it could happen.......
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post #26241 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 08:20 PM
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Agreed... and that's what I do. I've bought 60+ UHD discs in 2 months of OLED ownership and all but 2 (Dunkirk, Coco) I got for $15-$25. I've gotten most around the $15 range with quite a few being from Amazon's never ending 3 for $50 sale.

I just can't see the point of going streaming only due to the lesser quality and more importantly being locked into the store I buy the movie at. With the disc purchase I get the UHD and 1080p disc as well as the digital code for redemption. To me it's a no brainer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I agree with everything you said except for the "Locked In" part, and quality-wise, streaming is getting very, very good.

Every major content provider is trying to get us "locked" in" to their respective ecosystems. We really don't have much of a choice in the matter. More and more the selection of titles at the brick and mortar shops is getting pretty thin - and Amazon doesn't have everything either - so streaming sources are becoming the better choice for variety and title counts. You can't really go wrong with Apple's iTunes Movies. They didn't become the world's top music retailer by accident.

As it is, the current 4K/HDR/WCG Blu-ray is probably the last of its kind. When 8K/HDMI 2.1 finally hits, streaming will be poised for a take-over.
Sure streaming is getting good... I've rented a few movies. But it's not the best. Not the best video quality nor is it the best audio quality. I don't pretend to be an expert but I've seen many posts in this very forum where users have said "streaming quality has a long way to go especially the audio to be on par with a disc."

I've said in the last week that studios are going to be milking the physical media cash cow for a long time. Someone posted that sales last year were nearly $5B. That isn't going away anytime soon.

When I said "locked in" I was mainly talking about not having to have all my movies tied into one retailer... all my eggs in one basket... whatever. Movies Anywhere is pretty cool and I like that but there's still issues with some studios not being a part (Lionsgate being one, I just redeemed a code today) so it still has issues to be sorted out.

I'm not against an all streaming world once the quality is on par with discs. But then you have to worry about internet bandwidth. Where I live (Seattle metro) Comcast has a 1TB monthly limit or pay $10 per 50GB overage fees or $50 per month in unlimited fees... and I'm on a 250mb down/10mb up plan for about $55... with another $50 for the unlimited. I've got 2 TVs, 3 tablets, 5 phones and a PC using 1 TB that Comcast says 99% of households don't cap in a month.

How long is 1TB gonna last streaming high quality (uncompressed) video? Probably not as long as it's gonna take Comcast and other ISPs to raise their monthly prices. How affordable is internet data going to be?

I'm a big fan of iTunes too and I have the Apple TV 4K. I use it for streaming movies from my digital library on the PC to my TV and for the occasional rental. I'm just not going all in on streaming just yet. Physical media still has some life left according to the yearly sales. As for 8k... well... I'm anxious to see what that market is gonna look like. 4K on my OLED already looks "real" sitting from 6-8 ft away... and how much better can our eyes actually see?
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post #26242 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 08:20 PM
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I'm not against an all streaming world once the quality is on par with discs.
I am. That's the first step toward the Hollywood dream of charging you for every view. Physical media, and consumers expectations of its availability, is the strongest bulwark against that.
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post #26243 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 08:26 PM
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I am. That's the first step toward the Hollywood dream of charging you for every view. Physical media, and consumers expectations of its availability, is the strongest bulwark against that.
Yep... and as I said, $5B in annual sales says a lot IMO.

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is that the Apple TV 4K doesn't support Atmos... and some have said it might not ever. Yet another reason I continue to buy discs.

I like the movies on the shelf... don't mind having to open a UHD player to play one... and the digital copy is more of a convenience thing... like playing one on the iPad Pro while the girlfriend is driving.

As said though... not totally against streaming. I rented I,Tonya from Vudu tonight.

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post #26244 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 08:30 PM
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T2 4k blu ray...eye candy!!!
One of the best 4K PQ films in my library and definitely the best looking 27 year old movie.
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post #26245 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 11:33 PM
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I agree with everything you said except for the "Locked In" part, and quality-wise, streaming is getting very, very good.

Every major content provider is trying to get us "locked" in" to their respective ecosystems. We really don't have much of a choice in the matter. More and more the selection of titles at the brick and mortar shops is getting pretty thin - and Amazon doesn't have everything either - so streaming sources are becoming the better choice for variety and title counts. You can't really go wrong with Apple's iTunes Movies. They didn't become the world's top music retailer by accident.

As it is, the current 4K/HDR/WCG Blu-ray is probably the last of its kind. When 8K/HDMI 2.1 finally hits, streaming will be poised for a take-over.
Amen, just look around, physical media has been on the way out, it's only a matter of time!
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post #26246 of 36693 Old 04-08-2018, 11:36 PM
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Wow...it makes such a difference when watching quality high bit-rate content. I constantly see banding with low-quality/low-rate 720p content. I throw on a high(er) bit-rate 1080p (or obviously 2160p) and it becomes so much tougher to see the banding and I find myself seeing it less and less with better quality content.

Are there any potential ways to lessen the ability to see effects of banding with low-quality content? Should I reduce OLED Light?

Josh
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post #26247 of 36693 Old 04-09-2018, 12:23 AM
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Are there any potential ways to lessen the ability to see effects of banding with low-quality content? Should I reduce OLED Light?
Nothing will help. Biggest lesson is "Crap in, crap out"..

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post #26248 of 36693 Old 04-09-2018, 01:48 AM
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The picture appears dimmer because LG is tone mapping the entire range and as a result, more detail is resolved. Look at a bright highlight in a game with lots of detail contained within the picture and change between game mode and standard. You will see that in game mode more detail is visible while in standard detail is lost as the highlight overpowers the fine details. I don't know how Sony handles this. I will say that if you plan to use any 1080p game sources that the Z9D has 40ms of input lag. The E7 has 21ms across all modes and resolutions. I sometimes use my PC at 1080p for gaming because 4k takes too much horsepower and I don't have it so this was a concern of mine too. Not to mention the Nintendo switch being 1080p. I can tell the difference between 40ms and 21ms of input lag in some games.

Back to the question about game mode on the LG TVs, it's not going to be changed in an update. LG made it clear that they feel it's better this way and to be honest after playing this way for a while I've come to really like how games look in HDR on my B7A. I've come to appreciate the better fine details in the picture vs having an overall brighter screen.
Already debated : the real subject is not about game mode versus standard mode. It is about game mode versus cinema mode.

Cinema mode has active hdr , resolves details better than game mode and has better colour.

If you are not into FPS that need low input lag, cinema is the better choice.
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post #26249 of 36693 Old 04-09-2018, 05:28 AM
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Yes, you see it in the service menu (via IN-START).
Could you offer some more informations about how to access the service menu?

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This gdpr?

General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) proposed by the European Commission will strengthen and unify data protection for individuals within the European Union (EU), whilst addressing the export of personal data outside the EU.
compliance with gpdr is mandatory in europe starting with may 25 [that's why the firmware is available only here]; fines are huge ("Up to €20 million, or 4% of the worldwide annual revenue of the prior financial year, whichever is higher")

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post #26250 of 36693 Old 04-09-2018, 07:09 AM
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Could you offer some more informations about how to access the service menu?
There are various ways. You can search the forums, there are probably couple of threads about this topic. One is called "LG OLED 2017 Service Menu (C7,B7,E7 etc)"
In may case I had an old Android device with IR Blaster and used the Anymote app on it.

Once you are in the service menu (via IN-START) there is a counter in the left column called "UTT" which represents the total usage hours.
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