2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 88 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2611 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
No, but he made it clear that this was a very isolated example. That's the point. I think if he felt this was just one example of many, he would have made that point. He didn't.
We must be watching different videos because I just watched it again and he never said anything about the posterization in the DiCaprio scene as being an isolated example or of making an effort to find it in other movies. If you're seeing something different than me you can point it out and I'll take a look.
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post #2612 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
There will be once the 2016 OLED's go away at the sick prices they are at.......
Do we need dedicated threads for the 2017 models now that they all use the same chip and features?

Specific model difference would have only to do with TV sound quality, setup, and connections.

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post #2613 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
No, but he made it clear that this was a very isolated example. That's the point. I think if he felt this was just one example of many, he would have made that point. He didn't.


I keep bringing it up because even back when the display was new, the arguments were the same. Sony is great, LG sucks. The arguments are always the same, just as they were the same during the old plasma days, it's just the brand names may change. Some will continue to insist that the Sony 'magic dust' solves every issue known to display technology. I am just trying to get a handle on fact vs myth. I've seen enough evidence that Sony does a better job controlling false contouring, so I'm not in denial. I haven't seen any evidence of whether that alteration in the original source results in anything negative. If it doesn't, kudos to Sony. If it does, then each person has to decide if that newly introduced negative offsets the problem that was mitigated. I find that a perfectly reasonable approach.

I'm sure the new Sony chip is better than the one in my 940c, after 2 years I'd certainly hope it would be. The 2017 LGs are better than my 2016, time marches on. How much better the new Sony processor is I have no idea and I suspect you don't either. As I've said, when I buy a 77" OLED, it may well be a Sony, but it will be based on fact rather than hype. One thing I do know is that the LG OS is far more trouble-free than the Android OS used in the Sony. For some people that's a factor, for others perhaps not.

So my current thinking is, the Sony gets one ding for its OS and one plus for mitigating false contouring...assuming no ill-effects in the process.
Don't forget one plus for the 4 full bandwidth HDMI ports and another plus for price.

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post #2614 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 09:57 AM
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Sorry for the stupid questions, I have tried looking through this post but there are 88 pages !!

Are there any recommended HDR settings for the b7 and is there a setup disk with hdr patterns on it, I am using the excellent Spears and Munsel setup bluray but it doesn't have HDR settings.

Thank you
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post #2615 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Stanleh View Post
Sorry for the stupid questions, I have tried looking through this post but there are 88 pages !!

Are there any recommended HDR settings for the b7 and is there a setup disk with hdr patterns on it, I am using the excellent Spears and Munsel setup bluray but it doesn't have HDR settings.

Thank you

I had a B6 and now a C7. I don't remember the exact settings for the B6 but on the C7, I use Dynamic Contrast Low to bring up the mid-tone brightness.
The tone-mapping seems to be trying the preserve highlights in all Dynamic Contrast modes but Off is the darkest.


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post #2616 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by poisson View Post
My point is less about getting Atmos 7.1 or TrueHD over Optical, I know it won't work, and my AVR doesn't support anyway. My issue is that the DLNA client can not properly play videos that have Atmos 7.1 or TrueHD, it errors out that the video does not have an audio track. This is not the case.

Whether it can support passing that source via Optical or ARC isn't really the concern, it should at least be able to support playing the audio over internal speakers at least.
Oh I see. I don't know. I guess the TV doesn't support lossless audio at all then.
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post #2617 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Egan View Post
We must be watching different videos because I just watched it again and he never said anything about the posterization in the DiCaprio scene as being an isolated example or of making an effort to find it in other movies. If you're seeing something different than me you can point it out and I'll take a look.
The video I'm talking about was this. Go to 15:10, after which he says he checked out similar fire scenes and couldn't duplicate it. Both the Sony & LG looked the same. Again, the objective takeaway is that both are great OLEDs, where one does some things better than the other and vice versa. Not an easy decision.

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post #2618 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 11:12 AM
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Peer review is part of all good science. Rtings.com provides detailed instructions and links to their patterns if you wish to verify their findings. HDTVTest also references specific movies and/or scenes in the older reviews I linked. The best way to do these tests is to have the sets side-by-side. Next would be photo or instrument measurements. Memory is is the least reliable form of any evidence.
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post #2619 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dancolt View Post
Don't forget one plus for the 4 full bandwidth HDMI ports and another plus for price.

Dan
Dan, don't both displays do full bandwidth on all HDMI ports? I'm not seeing any advantage in that respect for one or the other...unless I'm missing something.

It was interesting that at one point Vincent said the LG generally has more pop in its picture due to the way they handle HDR.
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post #2620 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancolt View Post
Don't forget one plus for the 4 full bandwidth HDMI ports and another plus for price.

Dan
Dan, don't both displays do full bandwidth on all HDMI ports? I'm not seeing any advantage in that respect for one or the other...unless I'm missing something.

It was interesting that at one point Vincent said the LG generally has more pop in its picture due to the way they handle HDR.
Are we talking about the A1E? Pretty sure it only does HDMI full bandwidth on ports 2 and 3 like all the other X1 Extreme Sony tvs.
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post #2621 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Creator44 View Post
Are we talking about the A1E? Pretty sure it only does HDMI full bandwidth on ports 2 and 3 like all the other X1 Extreme Sony tvs.
Here's the specs direct from the A1E page for the HDMI ports:

"HDCP2.2 (for HDMI™ 1/2/3/4)"
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post #2622 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Here's the specs direct from the A1E page for the HDMI ports:



"HDCP2.2 (for HDMI 1/2/3/4)"


According to rtings.com:
HDMI 2.0 Full Bandwith : Yes (HDMI 2,3)
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/a1e



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post #2623 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Of course we don't know if the 60E7000 was faithfully reproducing what was in the source. It's entirely conceivable that the LG was doing a better job at that. We know that the Sony A1E shows less false contouring, but they are introducing special algorithms to handle that. So by definition, they are artificially introducing something that is altering the source and we don't know what the downsides of that may or may not be.

I would also argue that the blooming, haloing and off-axis viewing issues inherent in LCD, will be there regardless of source. Thus, even high quality sources will be subject to these LCD issues. However the false contouring, even if we were to believe these are worse on the LG OLED, will generally only be visible with highly compressed sources, where the quality is questionable with or without false contouring. But with high quality sources, the OLED will show a superior picture on many levels and be devoid of false contouring.

I do agree that if false contouring is something you encounter with a high degree of frequency, then the A1E might be the better choice if there are no downsides to what ever Sony is doing to the original signal.
It goes without saying the haloing and blooming issues will be there regardless of source quality, my point was watchers of compressed content may prefer that poison to the poison of posterization issues due to LG’s faithful video processing.

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post #2624 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by smoore View Post
I assume by factory reset we are talking about going to settings/general/reset to initial settings. I have done that and the HDR picture is still awful. I also noticed that some of YouTube videos that did not show HDR on the LG before now do. A lot settings such as black level are no greyed out.
Did you ever get this resolved?

Has anyone else had any issues with the new firmware?

Did anyone have to do a "reset to initial settings"? I sure hope not. If you have to lose all your settings and app setup for a firmware upgrade, that's not good.

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post #2625 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Dan, don't both displays do full bandwidth on all HDMI ports? I'm not seeing any advantage in that respect for one or the other...unless I'm missing something.

It was interesting that at one point Vincent said the LG generally has more pop in its picture due to the way they handle HDR.
From the reviews I have seen the A1E, 940e and the Z9D all only support full bandwidth on 2 ports.

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Anyone here put a soundbar directly on their TV stand in front of their C7? I ask because from specs it looks like the stand only raises the TV up about 1.5-2". The soundbars I'm looking at (Samsung Sound+ and Bose Soundtouch 300) seem like they'd block part of the screen as they are 2.5-3.5" tall. Almost any other soundbar seems like it would cover the bottom of the screen as well. Can anyone speak to this?
Bumping this, anyone have any input here?
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post #2627 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 01:53 PM
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In his video, Vincent Teoh talks about how Sony's tone mapping clipping off the top seems to work better than LG's trying to squeeze the entire range into what the panel can handle. Sony's way throws away some details while LG's way can make the overall picture too dark to see the details it is trying to preserve.

But it seems LG's active HDR (or whatever it's called), when enabled, works more like Sony's tone mapping. If this is true, this gives you a choice of which trade-off you prefer. Can someone comment on this?
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post #2628 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:06 PM
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Just checked my E7 - No firmware update available yet.

Also checked both CAD and US websites.... nadda.
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post #2629 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:13 PM
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Reminds me of my first major upgrade ...went from a 32 inch SD CRT to a 55 inch HD FALD LCD.

My eyes hurt so much the first week I was afraid it was damaging them and felt like retuning to the TV. lol
Yea already getting used to it
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post #2630 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Flaken2000 View Post
According to rtings.com:
HDMI 2.0 Full Bandwith : Yes (HDMI 2,3)
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/a1e



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I'd go with Sony's spec sheet. Rtings may have old specs.
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post #2631 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMissingLink117 View Post
Anyone here put a soundbar directly on their TV stand in front of their C7? I ask because from specs it looks like the stand only raises the TV up about 1.5-2". The soundbars I'm looking at (Samsung Sound+ and Bose Soundtouch 300) seem like they'd block part of the screen as they are 2.5-3.5" tall. Almost any other soundbar seems like it would cover the bottom of the screen as well. Can anyone speak to this?
My B7 screen bottom is about 2-1/8" from the shelf. I think the stand on the C7 has the same dimensions. Easy to raise the TV up...you could set the TV stand on a stack of 12" x 24" ceramic tiles which should be stable enough.
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post #2632 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
It goes without saying the haloing and blooming issues will be there regardless of source quality, my point was watchers of compressed content may prefer that poison to the poison of posterization issues due to LG’s faithful video processing.
Each to his own. I'll take the occasional issue over the far more frequent.
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post #2633 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by barth2 View Post
In his video, Vincent Teoh talks about how Sony's tone mapping clipping off the top seems to work better than LG's trying to squeeze the entire range into what the panel can handle. Sony's way throws away some details while LG's way can make the overall picture too dark to see the details it is trying to preserve.

But it seems LG's active HDR (or whatever it's called), when enabled, works more like Sony's tone mapping. If this is true, this gives you a choice of which trade-off you prefer. Can someone comment on this?
I thought he said he preferred LG's approach but each had its pros & cons.
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post #2634 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I'd go with Sony's spec sheet. Rtings may have old specs.


From the Sony A1E manual. In the specs at the end. It mentions the full bandwidth only on hdmi 2/3.
https://docs.sony.com/release//Ref_4693661111.pdf

I have a B7 so I personally don't care what the A1E can or can't do. Just want you to have the correct info.


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post #2635 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by barth2 View Post
In his video, Vincent Teoh talks about how Sony's tone mapping clipping off the top seems to work better than LG's trying to squeeze the entire range into what the panel can handle. Sony's way throws away some details while LG's way can make the overall picture too dark to see the details it is trying to preserve.

But it seems LG's active HDR (or whatever it's called), when enabled, works more like Sony's tone mapping. If this is true, this gives you a choice of which trade-off you prefer. Can someone comment on this?
A1E owners are reporting that with the latest firmware update it no longer clips whites (like in Affleck's shirt) in cinema pro mode.
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post #2636 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:48 PM
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A1E owners are reporting that with the latest firmware update it no longer clips whites (like in Affleck's shirt) in cinema pro mode.

Good for them if that's true. Vincent will have to update his comparison video


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post #2637 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 02:56 PM
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It would be nice to see HDR 10 EOTF measurement graphs with Dynamic Contrast (DC): OFF, LOW, MEDIUM, and HIGH.
DC OFF makes content that looked bright on the B6 looks muted on the C7.

I have been using the Sony HDR disk using the menu 7669 to display HDR patterns.
White detail shows up to the 4000 with DC = OFF.
There is still visible differences well above 1100 nits with DC = LOW.

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post #2638 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
The video I'm talking about was this. Go to 15:10, after which he says he checked out similar fire scenes and couldn't duplicate it. Both the Sony & LG looked the same. Again, the objective takeaway is that both are great OLEDs, where one does some things better than the other and vice versa. Not an easy decision.
Don't want to beat this to death but he's talking about posterization in the DiCaprio scene and gradation in the fire scene in Mad Max Fury Road. He then compared fire in 2 other movies and didn't see the gradation so not quite an extensive investigation there, but that didn't concern me like the posterization. Given the price difference b/w them I was pulling for the C7 to match the Sony so I would know what to go with if I decided to upgrade from plasma, but the posterization killed it for me. Owners here are commenting on posterization on other sources too so it's still an issue for LG's OLEDs.
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post #2639 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 03:22 PM
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Hey guys. Got the 55B7 a few weeks back. Pleased for the most part, but some minor banding is annoying - as well as my seeming inability to get some decent SDR picture quality.

I currently run all media through Kodi on the Nvidia Shield. My concern is that upscaling some 1080p content is part of the image quality problem...but I'm a bit of a n00b on how the processing is done.

If I recall from the settings correctly, I can specify the output resolution from the Shield to the TV, either 1080p or 4k.

Now, if I disable upscaling in Kodi, does that mean the shield does no transcoding, transmits the signal to the TV, and now the OLED is doing the upscaling?

I just want to be able to switch between 1080p and 4k content easily, without having to tinker with settings each time.

I will also welcome other people's Kodi/Shield configurations, as I'm really just flying by the seat of my pants.
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post #2640 of 36578 Old 05-31-2017, 04:16 PM
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Don't want to beat this to death but he's talking about posterization in the DiCaprio scene and gradation in the fire scene in Mad Max Fury Road. He then compared fire in 2 other movies and didn't see the gradation so not quite an extensive investigation there, but that didn't concern me like the posterization. Given the price difference b/w them I was pulling for the C7 to match the Sony so I would know what to go with if I decided to upgrade from plasma, but the posterization killed it for me. Owners here are commenting on posterization on other sources too so it's still an issue for LG's OLEDs.
In all fairness, he only showed that posterization in one scene there too. So how extensive is the issue, how much is the LG introducing that's not there in the source, we really don't know. From everything I've read and what Vincent himself said, the near black issues have improved from 2016 to 2017 on the LGs. Are they perfect yet? No, and I suspect that applies to the Sony as well.

He clearly states that the difference in near black handling with good material is 'marginal' and goes on to say that 'most people won't even notice at normal viewing distance'. He feels the Sony does a better job with lower quality material, but at the expense of a gamma that's not ideal. He feels Sony deliberately raised the gamma on these near black scenes to hide the near black issues. That's fine, but as Vincent said, that's at the expense of a 'more washed out picture on the Sony'. Remember I said there's no free lunch? This is proof of that. He goes on to say "In poorly compressed dark scenes, the A1 is less noisy, but the LG C7 has more depth and dimensionality". He further says "On balance, we probably give a slight edge to LG's implementation".

The more I see, the more I'm convinced there's no clear cut choice, each has their pros & cons.
poisson and Flaken2000 like this.

Last edited by Ken Ross; 05-31-2017 at 04:19 PM.
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