Master OLED image retention/ burn-in thread:with photos - Page 113 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3361 of 3989 Old 01-26-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
OLED Light at 100 is very high for SDR. 100 is the default setting for HDR and I even turn it down when watching HDR. For an OLED Light setting for SDR, you might want to consider something in the range of 25 to 50.

Also, what picture mode do you use for SDR, and what is your usual source (e.g., cable, over-the-air antenna, netflix)?
Actually I had it set for 80 most of the time I owned it. I just switched to Vivid yesterday. I set it at 50 for a while and didn't like it. I am 70 and my eyes are not the best. I went back to 80. I don't watch much HDR.
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post #3362 of 3989 Old 01-26-2019, 02:10 PM
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Actually I had it set for 80 most of the time I owned it. I just switched to Vivid yesterday. I set it at 50 for a while and didn't like it. I am 70 and my eyes are not the best. I went back to 80. I don't watch much HDR.
I would think using Vivid and/or an OLED light setting of 80 is likely to significantly increase burn-in. But if you can't see or enjoy the picture with the Technicolor Expert Setting and/or a lower OLED Light setting, you basically have to make a trade off between longevity of your set and seeing the picture. When you get your next set, I'd suggest an LCD, which can achieved even higher brightness.
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post #3363 of 3989 Old 01-26-2019, 02:15 PM
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I would think using Vivid and/or an OLED light setting of 80 is likely to significantly increase burn-in. But if you can't see or enjoy the picture with the Technicolor Expert Setting and/or a lower OLED Light setting, you basically have to make a trade off between longevity of your set and seeing the picture. When you get your next set, I'd suggest an LCD, which can achieved even higher brightness.
Well if it does increase burn in I will live with it. It is not that bad. I have stopped using subtitles but I will keep it at 80. No LED in my future, OLED has me spoiled.

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post #3364 of 3989 Old 01-26-2019, 03:57 PM
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Well if it does increase burn in I will live with it. It is not that bad. I have stopped using subtitles but I will keep it at 80. No LED in my future, OLED has me spoiled.
Well, if you're watching in Vivid and with high OLED Light, I wonder how much benefit of the OLED set you're getting in any event. It seems to me, you're basically converting your OLED into an LCD-like set. But that's somewhat of an guess/assumption on my part, since I haven't seen your set and never ever set any of my sets to Vivid mode.

But as they say, to each his own.
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post #3365 of 3989 Old 01-26-2019, 04:08 PM
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Well, if you're watching in Vivid and with high OLED Light, I wonder how much benefit of the OLED set you're getting in any event. It seems to me, you're basically converting your OLED into an LCD-like set. But that's somewhat of an guess/assumption on my part, since I haven't seen your set and never ever set any of my sets to Vivid mode.

But as they say, to each his own.
I am back to standard mode after less than one day on vivid. I didn't like it. I have never seen an LED that is even in the same universe as my TV.

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post #3366 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 12:11 PM
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I mostly watch in the evenings at 35 OLED light. I may reduce that to 25 out of an extra precaution. The 2016 series actually don't have Technicolor settings (just ISF day and night). It can get pretty bright here in the day where I have had it up to 100 but will likely refrain from that going forward.
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post #3367 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 01:39 PM
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The more I read about the state of burn in the more I am turned off. I would like a tv to last more than 5 years and I really don’t like having to babysit my usage habits. Seems like there are real downsides and burn in risk is real and frankly inevitable. Sucks. I was psyched for an OLED. Maybe best to wait for micro led next year. Ugh.

I didn't know about OLED BI and IR until yesterday, when I started reading these threads. Nor the light issues. Don't need it. Don't want it.

I hope LG gets it sorted. By the looks of it, they're doing a good job trying to retain customers. However, it's the timid types like me that they should also be concerned about. Potential customers.

I don't want this stuff rattling around in my mind. As one said in a post, he hated it that he was always thinking about OLED issues, even after a panel replacement.

Currently, I wouldn't buy OLED if it was significantly cheaper than LCD/LED. No doubt, some of OLED price point is related to subsequent panel replacement.
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post #3368 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 01:45 PM
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Well, if you're watching in Vivid and with high OLED Light, I wonder how much benefit of the OLED set you're getting in any event. It seems to me, you're basically converting your OLED into an LCD-like set. But that's somewhat of an guess/assumption on my part, since I haven't seen your set and never ever set any of my sets to Vivid mode.

But as they say, to each his own.
Yes, to each his own. Picture modes should be considered as starting points, not the ultimate leave.
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post #3369 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 02:12 PM
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Yes, to each his own. Picture modes should be considered as starting points, not the ultimate leave.
Sure, everybody should do what they want. I had a friend who would order his filet mignon butterflied and cooked well done, even when we would got to a very good steak place, like Ruth's Chris or Morton's. That's his right. But if you want to taste what filet mignon really tastes like, I don't think you accomplish that by turning it into a well-done hamburger.

In the audio video realm, if a person wants to listen to music with the bass turned all the way up, that's their right, of course. But they're probably not reproducing and hearing what the artist intended, and I wouldn't think it would make much sense to spend $10K on a fine stereo and then turn the bass all the way up. And the same is probably true for Vivid mode on a OLED for movies and regular programming. The beauty of an OLED is the ability to reproduce accurate color, black level, etc. I'm not sure Vivd mode gets you there. But hey, it's a free country.
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post #3370 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 02:19 PM
 
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I didn't know about OLED BI and IR until yesterday, when I started reading these threads. Nor the light issues. Don't need it. Don't want it.

I hope LG gets it sorted. By the looks of it, they're doing a good job trying to retain customers. However, it's the timid types like me that they should also be concerned about. Potential customers.

I don't want this stuff rattling around in my mind. As one said in a post, he hated it that he was always thinking about OLED issues, even after a panel replacement.
Makes 100% sense.


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Currently, I wouldn't buy OLED if it was significantly cheaper than LCD/LED. No doubt, some of OLED price point is related to subsequent panel replacement.
Yeah, I find it unacceptable to have a TV that I am going to constantly have to worry about. And from what I'm seeing thus far, that's where we are. "Don't watch too much CNN?" That's a horribly weakkneed argument from far too many. To some, it seems perfectly acceptable to have a TV that comes with such worry. To me, I find it perfectly stupid.
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post #3371 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 02:32 PM
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To some, it seems perfectly acceptable to have a TV that comes with such worry. To me, I find it perfectly stupid.
But many of us don't worry because we don't watch CNN (for a whole bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with burn-in) or other shows that present a serious potential for burn-in. And many of us value the picture we get from OLED compared to other offerings. That is, there's also an issue of trade-off.

So some have the worry and OLED is probably not right for them. But many, many others don't worry at all. I mean, when I drive my car, I try to avoid jack rabbit starts and stops in order to get good gas mileage and longer engine life. But I wouldn't say I "worry" about it.

I do agree that if a person is going to worry or obsess about whether their OLED will suffer burn-in, they should probably buy another technology.
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post #3372 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 03:01 PM
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But many of us don't worry because we don't watch CNN (for a whole bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with burn-in) or other shows that present a serious potential for burn-in. And many of us value the picture we get from OLED compared to other offerings. That is, there's also an issue of trade-off.

So some have the worry and OLED is probably not right for them. But many, many others don't worry at all. I mean, when I drive my car, I try to avoid jack rabbit starts and stops in order to get good gas mileage and longer engine life. But I wouldn't say I "worry" about it.

I do agree that if a person is going to worry or obsess about whether their OLED will suffer burn-in, they should probably buy another technology.
Yep, and i'm just going to be honest right now. I just returned my Z9D (the best LCD ever made IMO), and bought an A1E. As great as the Z9D is, the A1E is better. The colors are fuller, richer. Dunno how to describe it exactly. The OLED just looks "real". I'm a believer now.
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post #3373 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 04:37 PM
 
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But many of us don't worry because we don't watch CNN (for a whole bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with burn-in) or other shows that present a serious potential for burn-in. And many of us value the picture we get from OLED compared to other offerings. That is, there's also an issue of trade-off.

So some have the worry and OLED is probably not right for them. But many, many others don't worry at all. I mean, when I drive my car, I try to avoid jack rabbit starts and stops in order to get good gas mileage and longer engine life. But I wouldn't say I "worry" about it.

I do agree that if a person is going to worry or obsess about whether their OLED will suffer burn-in, they should probably buy another technology.
Sure, fair enough. There's a spectrum here.

The car is a great illustration in fact: I don't want to have a TV that I have to worry about (or care for?) as much as I do my car. I just want it there with zero maintenance and concern, with no TV equivalent of roads I drive on, etc. A TV I have to worry about even 1% of the time is not a TV to me, it's a hassle, and from what I've seen (especially having 2 kids), I'd be worrying far more than 1% of the time.

I personally hope OLED improves to the point where it's as carefree as LCD is. That will be great. Though of course there's no way Jose I'm parting with my passive 3D sooner than I have to.
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post #3374 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 04:56 PM
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The car is a great illustration in fact: I don't want to have a TV that I have to worry about (or care for?) as much as I do my car. I just want it there with zero maintenance and concern, with no TV equivalent of roads I drive on, etc. A TV I have to worry about even 1% of the time is not a TV to me, it's a hassle, and from what I've seen (especially having 2 kids), I'd be worrying far more than 1% of the time.
To quote George Constanza, "I hear thee."
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post #3375 of 3989 Old 01-27-2019, 07:04 PM
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To quote George Constanza, "I hear thee."
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Sure, fair enough. There's a spectrum here.

The car is a great illustration in fact: I don't want to have a TV that I have to worry about (or care for?) as much as I do my car. I just want it there with zero maintenance and concern, with no TV equivalent of roads I drive on, etc. A TV I have to worry about even 1% of the time is not a TV to me, it's a hassle, and from what I've seen (especially having 2 kids), I'd be worrying far more than 1% of the time.

I personally hope OLED improves to the point where it's as carefree as LCD is. That will be great. Though of course there's no way Jose I'm parting with my passive 3D sooner than I have to.
Given the latest documentation above about subtitle imprints, I'm slowly coming around to agree, especially with the added disappointment of uniformity near black. The latter point about 3D is the only facet that keeps me excited, but that is fading itself with the slowing trickle of releases.
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Given the latest documentation above about subtitle imprints, I'm slowly coming around to agree, especially with the added disappointment of uniformity near black. The latter point about 3D is the only facet that keeps me excited, but that is fading itself with the slowing trickle of releases.
Yeah, well you, I, @fafrd , and a bunch of others who "get" what 3D is all about when done correctly are likely crossing our fingers for whatever happens when Cameron finally shows up again (Avatar2). I wonder how many more times he can tease a release and delay? {grumble, grumble, kicks cat...}
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post #3378 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 06:24 PM
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OLED Burn in is real

Just ran a test from youtube and found out that my B6 with 3,400 hours has a youtube logo burn in.

Now I played a different video on youtube and I can see the burn in. I can't unsee the burn in. So disappointed. Not keeping the expensive A9F and may consider and LCD as my next tv.
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post #3379 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 07:16 PM
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Yeah, well you, I, @fafrd , and a bunch of others who "get" what 3D is all about when done correctly are likely crossing our fingers for whatever happens when Cameron finally shows up again (Avatar2). I wonder how many more times he can tease a release and delay? {grumble, grumble, kicks cat...}
Have to wait till there is some stunning change to movie theater screens or it won't be effective at jump starting a renewed interest in 3D...

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Just ran a test from youtube and found out that my B6 with 3,400 hours has a youtube logo burn in.



Now I played a different video on youtube and I can see the burn in. I can't unsee the burn in. So disappointed. Not keeping the expensive A9F and may consider and LCD as my next tv.


Is it the YouTube logo on the top left side? What about the yellow “select” button on the bottom right hand side? I have the YouTube logo slightly burned in but the yellow select button on the bottom right is what burned in badly for me. The craziest part is that the screensaver engages after about a minute so these logos aren’t up on the screen for long periods of time unless you are browsing for long periods of time. This is the only way that the logos will stay on the screen for an extended period of time. My B7 is burned in And I got the confirmation for a new panel today. Looks like I won’t be using the onboard YouTube app anymore. I told LG That they should revamp the app or make the select button and YouTube logo transparent


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post #3381 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 07:30 PM
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Just ran a test from youtube and found out that my B6 with 3,400 hours has a youtube logo burn in.



Now I played a different video on youtube and I can see the burn in. I can't unsee the burn in. So disappointed. Not keeping the expensive A9F and may consider and LCD as my next tv.


So basically you went looking for a problem and found one.


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post #3382 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 08:43 PM
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Is it the YouTube logo on the top left side? What about the yellow “select” button on the bottom right hand side? I have the YouTube logo slightly burned in but the yellow select button on the bottom right is what burned in badly for me. The craziest part is that the screensaver engages after about a minute so these logos aren’t up on the screen for long periods of time unless you are browsing for long periods of time. This is the only way that the logos will stay on the screen for an extended period of time. My B7 is burned in And I got the confirmation for a new panel today. Looks like I won’t be using the onboard YouTube app anymore. I told LG That they should revamp the app or make the select button and YouTube logo transparent


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Yes, in addition to the Youtube Red logo on top of left, I can also see the yellow select button burned in on bottom right. Also found Netflix logo burned in on bottom right below the youtube select button. Yikes terrible. The burn in problem is more serious than I thought earlier, many people may not even know they have burn in until they run tests. PQ looks great, but layers below is full of burn ins.
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post #3383 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 08:45 PM
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So basically you went looking for a problem and found one.


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Many people like me don't even know that we have burn in until the test. OLED PQ is amazing but not sustainable. Plasma 2.0 in the making?
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post #3384 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 08:55 PM
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OLED PQ is amazing but not sustainable.
You can't really conclude that, particularly to the extent you are making a prediction about the future. Some burn-in issues might be related to the specific panel a person gets, and there is the issue of the model year, as OLED manufacturers continue to make improvements to deal with the issue. Some burn-in is certainly related to the type of content that one usually watches, and some is pretty clearly related to picture settings. For example, I have my OLED Light set at 25. 80 is pretty high.

Burn-in is clearly a potential issue, but it is overly broad to suggest that it is going to be a problem for everybody, or that it is fatal to the technology, just as it is erroneous to state that nobody will have the problem.
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You can't really conclude that, particularly to the extent you are making a prediction about the future. Some burn-in issues might be related to the specific panel a person gets, and there is the issue of the model year, as OLED manufacturers continue to make improvements to deal with the issue. Some burn-in is certainly related to the type of content that one usually watches, and some is pretty clearly related to picture settings. For example, I have my OLED Light set at 25. 80 is pretty high.

Burn-in is clearly a potential issue, but it is overly broad to suggest that it is going to be a problem for everybody, or that it is fatal to the technology, just as it is erroneous to state that nobody will have the problem.
My point is many people may not even be aware of burn ins until they run tests since it is not visible under normal circumstances. The number of burn ins might be higher than what we know.
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post #3386 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 09:52 PM
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My point is many people may not even be aware of burn ins until they run tests since it is not visible under normal circumstances. The number of burn ins might be higher than what we know.
So you are here to tell everyone to ruin their viewing by going to look for problems when they don't see any to begin with. Sucks that you got it but like you said , you wouldn't of known you had it if you didn't go playing with slides and YouTube tests.

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post #3387 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 10:06 PM
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This question is to the point and still unanswered (or unanswerable). @fafrd , What's the most promising OLED tech in this regard?
We know that LG made significant improvements to burn-in resistance and conpensation in the 2017 model year and the continueing Rtibgs.com 2017 burn-in test prove how significant those improvements are - burn in went from something that could be caused by hundreds of cumulative hours of bright, fully-saturated static elements to something that required thousands of cumulative hours of bright, fully-saturated static elements (4200 hours of CNN @ 200 cd/m2; 2500 hours of CNN @ 380 cd/m2).

There are a few reasons the 2018s coukd further improve upon the 2017s and the 2019s may further improve upon that, but we don't yet have any 3rd-party test results to quantify any improvements.

Starting with the 2017s, now that LG has entered the era of estimating burn-in ad reserving brightness headroom to compensate for it, it becomes much more difficult to guess what improvemets may have been made without test results.

Top emission will result in a significany reduction in mA/cm2 for the same brightness and hence a significant improvement in burn-in resistance.

I'd say that the 2017 technologies moved us from a 'hundreds of hours' of static/non-random content problem to a 'thousands of hours' of static/non-random content problem but we're not likely to get close to a 'ten thousand hours' of static/non-random content -level issue before LG lanches top-emission.

So the good news is that if you estimate and realize that you may have a few hbdred hours of non-random static elemts displayed on your WOLED, you no lobger need to be terribly concerned about burn-in, but the bad news is if you are likely to have non-random/static elements displayed for thousands of hours during the expected lifetime of your TV, you're probably better off sticking to LED/LCD...

And all of these estimates are for moderate peak viewing brightness of under 200cd/m2 (SDR). If you are alumens junkie and watch at OLED Light 100 and oeak brightness levels close to twice that level, your 'time-to-burn-in' as summarized above will be reduced by half...

The case of the mute button being burned-in despite very low hours of display is very, very strange. Makes me wonder about something that happened during LGs testing before shipping the TV (like the burned-in 'rectangles' that Rtings.com exposed).
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post #3388 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
My point is many people may not even be aware of burn ins until they run tests since it is not visible under normal circumstances.
That is a different point than the one to which I was responding. Turning to the point you set forth above, it might very well be true. Some people (an unknown number) might not be aware of the fact that their set shows burn-in unless they were to actively search for it.

But it seems to me the real issue of concern is whether a person's set shows burn in on content that they normally watch from their normal viewing position. I mean, it is also true that a display might show a number of things if you stand two feet from the set, or if you throw up a 5% grey panel and scan every inch of it. If a person is the type of person that is not actively looking for burn-in, or hasn't even heard of it, they are probably the type of person that cares mostly about when their set looks good when they watch Survivor or The Black Panther.

I'm not suggesting burn-in is not an issue for OLED's. But just as it can be the subject of "denials," it is an issue that can also be overblown or exaggerated.
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post #3389 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 11:14 PM
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Is the OLED burn-in issue considered less or more than it was for plasma?

I ask because over the years I have bought five plasmas for myself and extended family. My main one - last build of Pioneer's 50" Kuro - has been running 5-15 hours a day, all types of content (sports, movies, news, etc.) for ~10 years now. I can't see any issues with normal use, and no I am not going to go hunting.

My oldest plasma - a 42" panasonic 7UY, that is pushing 15yrs, is now only used sporadically and shows a letterbox burn-in in dark, dark scenes, but that is a very early plasma which never had the brightness turned down from near max for four years (oops).

The other three get ~10-15 hours a day for `10 years (all panasonic 50")

So if OLED is better than plasma - then I'm not going to stress a purchase.
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post #3390 of 3989 Old 01-28-2019, 11:21 PM
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Master OLED image retention/ burn-in thread:with photos

Can anyone please help me to understand if running any of the available videos in you tube that claims to fix burn in( videos with various color patterns ) , might actually help prevent burn in.

I mean is it worth running them occasionally or will that cause any issue

Even running the static snow( live tv without channel) occasionally? I keep hearing LG recommending ppl to run the live tv without a channel for few hours when they complain of burn in to them.


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Last edited by ari821; 01-28-2019 at 11:54 PM.
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