Master OLED image retention/ burn-in thread:with photos - Page 38 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1111 of 4026 Old 09-08-2017, 02:23 PM
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Soon To Be OLED Owner

Hello,

Hopefully this is the right thread. As a potential Oled buyer this thread is concerning so I had some questions that hopefully someone can answer.

My viewing habits would be a couple hours of HDR gaming about 3 days per week, a couple blu rays per week and a couple hours of sports per week, and a couple hours if Netflix / HBO.

1) Would burn in be a certainty with my viewing habits? Are there a good percentage of people that have not had burn ins yet?

2) Is there any warranty that covers Oled burns ins via either credit card protection / warranty or a vendor warranty?

Thank you,
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post #1112 of 4026 Old 09-09-2017, 01:04 PM
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This is our Sony A1 OLED. It basically is put on a loop of the Sony OLED HDR demo all day, every day. I suppose that means the OLED light is at 100% also, being HDR. The demo has some really intense scenes with yellow and orange, and the display is basically completely ruined now. When watching Manchester United jerseys on it today, the entire middle area of the image had severe image retention, with discoloring.

If this is the norm with all OLEDs, I am genuinely concerned with the LG B7 I bought myself. Luckily I have OLED light tuned down, and Netflix subs set to something else than yellow. Yet I bought it for HDR, I game in HDR, watch movies in HDR etc. So if this is common, I will get really mad at LG for deceiving us.
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post #1113 of 4026 Old 09-09-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by agentspoon View Post


This is our Sony A1 OLED. It basically is put on a loop of the Sony OLED HDR demo all day, every day. I suppose that means the OLED light is at 100% also, being HDR. The demo has some really intense scenes with yellow and orange, and the display is basically completely ruined now. When watching Manchester United jerseys on it today, the entire middle area of the image had severe image retention, with discoloring.

If this is the norm with all OLEDs, I am genuinely concerned with the LG B7 I bought myself. Luckily I have OLED light tuned down, and Netflix subs set to something else than yellow. Yet I bought it for HDR, I game in HDR, watch movies in HDR etc. So if this is common, I will get really mad at LG for deceiving us.
Can you please repost or otherwise link to the picture? This is the first burn in report on the A1E and the picture isn't showing up. Thanks.
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post #1114 of 4026 Old 09-09-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by agentspoon View Post


This is our Sony A1 OLED. It basically is put on a loop of the Sony OLED HDR demo all day, every day. I suppose that means the OLED light is at 100% also, being HDR. The demo has some really intense scenes with yellow and orange, and the display is basically completely ruined now. When watching Manchester United jerseys on it today, the entire middle area of the image had severe image retention, with discoloring.

If this is the norm with all OLEDs, I am genuinely concerned with the LG B7 I bought myself. Luckily I have OLED light tuned down, and Netflix subs set to something else than yellow. Yet I bought it for HDR, I game in HDR, watch movies in HDR etc. So if this is common, I will get really mad at LG for deceiving us.
I would say that it is not common for a home buyer to be displaying the same demo on a loop at the highest intensity for 12 or more hours a day. So no I would not be worried about normal usage and burn in.
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post #1115 of 4026 Old 09-09-2017, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
I would say that it is not common for a home buyer to be displaying the same demo on a loop at the highest intensity for 12 or more hours a day. So no I would not be worried about normal usage and burn in.
Oh, I agree. I'm not saying it's normal. I'm just saying that it's the first one we've seen on this forum (as far as I'm aware), so I'd like to get a better look at it.
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post #1116 of 4026 Old 09-09-2017, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nirvanayoda View Post
Oh, I agree. I'm not saying it's normal. I'm just saying that it's the first one we've seen on this forum (as far as I'm aware), so I'd like to get a better look at it.

This is the image link from the post (please remove spaces):

https ://m.imgur.com/qD8Ab3J
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post #1117 of 4026 Old 09-09-2017, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
I would say that it is not common for a home buyer to be displaying the same demo on a loop at the highest intensity for 12 or more hours a day. So no I would not be worried about normal usage and burn in.
But, if it really does come down to cumulative hours displaying the same content or same static elements, then it's only a matter of time before the OLEDs get burn in if any owner displays any risky content on a regular basis. It would simply just take longer with normal use.

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post #1118 of 4026 Old 09-09-2017, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by damian069 View Post
Hello,

Hopefully this is the right thread. As a potential Oled buyer this thread is concerning so I had some questions that hopefully someone can answer.

My viewing habits would be a couple hours of HDR gaming about 3 days per week, a couple blu rays per week and a couple hours of sports per week, and a couple hours if Netflix / HBO.

1) Would burn in be a certainty with my viewing habits? Are there a good percentage of people that have not had burn ins yet?

2) Is there any warranty that covers Oled burns ins via either credit card protection / warranty or a vendor warranty?

Thank you,
First, to answer your questions - #1 Possibly (see below), and yes. #2 I'm only aware of Best Buy Geek Squad protection plan covering burn in, but always read the fine print as things can always change.

HDR gaming or Sports - very risky if elements on the screen are static, colorful, saturated and fully opaque. Less risky if static elements on the screen are less saturated or somewhat transparent. Yellow, orange, and red are worst offenders, but any static elements of any color can burn in with enough time.

Blu-rays/Netflix/HBO - no reports so far of burn in from these, except if you use subtitles, those may be risky (use white or light gray and transparent if you can). That content almost never has any static or repeating elements so risk is virtually zero.

OLED Light setting affects how quickly burn in develops. Higher = faster. Lower = longer.

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post #1119 of 4026 Old 09-10-2017, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by no1special View Post
Not necessarily. White can still burn in. Just takes longer than colors. But I've only seen white burn in on our set (from the black MSNBC on white background) on dark gray fields, not in actual content.
What color should I make the screen to check for image retention from white/gray content? Just dark grey?

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Originally Posted by no1special View Post
For news channels, I highly suggest using the "all-direction zoom" in Aspect Ratio settings to zoom and pan the picture so that the static stuff isn't showing on screen.
How do you pan the picture? I see how to use the all-direction zoom but I can't find any settings for shifting the picture arbitrarily.
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post #1120 of 4026 Old 09-10-2017, 01:04 AM
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What color should I make the screen to check for image retention from white/gray content? Just dark grey?



How do you pan the picture? I see how to use the all-direction zoom but I can't find any settings for shifting the picture arbitrarily.
Yes, a dark gray field is best to check for IR or BI from white/gray.

Go to main settings menu (not quick menu), select Aspect Ratio, then All-direction Zoom. First, zoom the screen diagonally (the bottom, right arrow under "adjust zoom ratio"). Then use the "adjust screen position" arrows to pan.

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post #1121 of 4026 Old 09-10-2017, 05:45 PM
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p.s. The yellow circlevassociated with the 'gif.com' logo in the lower right is the only element in your video that could cause the kinds of burn-in associated with the MSNBC logo, but that's not part of your Destiny HUD .
That yellow icon is not from 'gif.com'. It is part of the regular game UI. And yes, it uses 100% saturated red and almost 100% green. Good luck hunting for "OLED safe" games if this is truly something these TV's can't handle. Developers don't care because most of them use LCD and/or are not aware of the burn-in risks with WOLED.

http://www.fpspoint.com/wp-content/u...-gameplay2.png
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post #1122 of 4026 Old 09-10-2017, 06:19 PM
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That yellow icon is not from 'gif.com'. It is part of the regular game UI. And yes, it uses 100% saturated red and almost 100% green. Good luck hunting for "OLED safe" games if this is truly something these TV's can't handle. Developers don't care because most of them use LCD and/or are not aware of the burn-in risks with WOLED.

http://www.fpspoint.com/wp-content/u...-gameplay2.png
To be fair, it shouldn't be a problem for content creators and they shouldn't be limited to what content they use.

It's the TV manufacturers problem, if they can't design a TV that can display images without faults like burn-in then the TVs should not be available for sale.
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post #1123 of 4026 Old 09-10-2017, 10:16 PM
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To be fair, it shouldn't be a problem for content creators and they shouldn't be limited to what content they use.

It's the TV manufacturers problem, if they can't design a TV that can display images without faults like burn-in then the TVs should not be available for sale.
.... or at least sold with a clear, specific warning on the box as to what specific types of content should not be displayed on the TV.

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post #1124 of 4026 Old 09-10-2017, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
That yellow icon is not from 'gif.com'. It is part of the regular game UI. And yes, it uses 100% saturated red and almost 100% green. Good luck hunting for "OLED safe" games if this is truly something these TV's can't handle. Developers don't care because most of them use LCD and/or are not aware of the burn-in risks with WOLED.

http://www.fpspoint.com/wp-content/u...-gameplay2.png
Yeah, that yellow circle in the lower right corner is going to be a problem. Burn-in within 300 hours if OLED Light is at 80 or higher and by 1000 hours even if it is turned down below 40..
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post #1125 of 4026 Old 09-10-2017, 11:25 PM
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Yeah, that yellow circle in the lower right corner is going to be a problem. Burn-in within 300 hours if OLED Light is at 80 or higher and by 1000 hours even if it is turned down below 40..
I noticed that Destiny 2 was going to be an issue straight away. Luckily there is a setting for the HUD opacity, which I turned down to try and minimise the risk of further burn in.
In regards to my set, I have stopped using the app which caused the burn in from the progress bar since I posted last. Unfortunately it has not changed at all, so seems permanent.
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post #1126 of 4026 Old 09-10-2017, 11:48 PM
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But, if it really does come down to cumulative hours displaying the same content or same static elements, then it's only a matter of time before the OLEDs get burn in if any owner displays any risky content on a regular basis. It would simply just take longer with normal use.
If you want to test this theory out by playing Avatar 3D constantly for 24 hours and test for burn in month by month, be my guest. What you will experience here would not be burn in but uneven aging in my opinion at best.

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post #1127 of 4026 Old 09-11-2017, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
That yellow icon is not from 'gif.com'. It is part of the regular game UI. And yes, it uses 100% saturated red and almost 100% green. Good luck hunting for "OLED safe" games if this is truly something these TV's can't handle. Developers don't care because most of them use LCD and/or are not aware of the burn-in risks with WOLED.

http://www.fpspoint.com/wp-content/u...-gameplay2.png
That is definitely not a part of the regular Destiny 2 HUD. I've played a lot of D2 and never noticed that. You can see youtube videos of people playing D2 and that isn't there.

If it is part of Destiny 2 it certainly isn't on the screen a whole lot!
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post #1128 of 4026 Old 09-11-2017, 06:29 AM
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I noticed that Destiny 2 was going to be an issue straight away. Luckily there is a setting for the HUD opacity, which I turned down to try and minimise the risk of further burn in.
In regards to my set, I have stopped using the app which caused the burn in from the progress bar since I posted last. Unfortunately it has not changed at all, so seems permanent.
Nothing in the D2 HUD is fully saturated yellow/orange/red so shouldn't be a huge issue.
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post #1129 of 4026 Old 09-11-2017, 01:30 PM
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If you want to test this theory out by playing Avatar 3D constantly for 24 hours and test for burn in month by month, be my guest. What you will experience here would not be burn in but uneven aging in my opinion at best.
I was talking about risky content for causing burn in. In what ways do you think Avatar qualifies?

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That is definitely not a part of the regular Destiny 2 HUD. I've played a lot of D2 and never noticed that. You can see youtube videos of people playing D2 and that isn't there.

If it is part of Destiny 2 it certainly isn't on the screen a whole lot!
It is part of the HUD when playing a certain crucible mode. The one where you have to plant the charge. Think it represents you have the charge.
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post #1131 of 4026 Old 09-11-2017, 08:16 PM
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I posted this video a few pages back. The dimming comes on fairly quick. I push the menu button to temporarily disable the dimming effect, but changing the volume will also do the same .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi997f29gbo

what is that video?...are you dimming just the logo itself or the entire screen?
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post #1132 of 4026 Old 09-12-2017, 02:05 AM
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It is part of the HUD when playing a certain crucible mode. The one where you have to plant the charge. Think it represents you have the charge.
Hardly an issue then, given I've played a lot of destiny 2 and never come across it. Even if you played a lot of the game you'd only have that yellow symbol on the screen for a fraction of the time. It isn't going to build up enough cumulative hours to become a problem.
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post #1133 of 4026 Old 09-12-2017, 01:26 PM
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Hardly an issue then, given I've played a lot of destiny 2 and never come across it. Even if you played a lot of the game you'd only have that yellow symbol on the screen for a fraction of the time. It isn't going to build up enough cumulative hours to become a problem.
Totally agree. That's a 'dangerous' static element, but if it is only displayed ~1% of the time, it's going to take 100x the number of cumulative gaming hours to develop burn-in (meaning 20,000-30,000 hours at OLED Light of 80 or above, and close to the 100,000-hours-to-half-brightness of the TV at OLED Light of 40 or less..

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post #1134 of 4026 Old 09-12-2017, 06:23 PM
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Hardly an issue then, given I've played a lot of destiny 2 and never come across it. Even if you played a lot of the game you'd only have that yellow symbol on the screen for a fraction of the time. It isn't going to build up enough cumulative hours to become a problem.
Depends how much crucible you play. I don't personally play it much at all, but others I know play majority PvP. Seeing that the game modes are "random", there is a 1 in 4? chance that this is the game mode being played. So that would be on the screen around ~25% if playing crucible for an extended period.

Someone on reddit has posted Burn In from Overwatch:
https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/com...money_can_buy/

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Totally agree. That's a 'dangerous' static element, but if it is only displayed ~1% of the time, it's going to take 100x the number of cumulative gaming hours to develop burn-in (meaning 20,000-30,000 hours at OLED Light of 80 or above, and close to the 100,000-hours-to-half-brightness of the TV at OLED Light of 40 or less..
Well my personal experience is different to this. I have burn in from a media players progress bar that is displayed for <5 minutes a day with 4 hours of viewing differing content (<2% of screen time).

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Depends how much crucible you play. I don't personally play it much at all, but others I know play majority PvP. Seeing that the game modes are "random", there is a 1 in 4? chance that this is the game mode being played. So that would be on the screen around ~25% if playing crucible for an extended period.

Someone on reddit has posted Burn In from Overwatch:
https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/com...money_can_buy/



Well my personal experience is different to this. I have burn in from a media players progress bar that is displayed for <5 minutes a day with 4 hours of viewing differing content (<2% of screen time).
I've played 5 hours of crucible and never come across it. I assume it is in the competitive playlist which I've only played a little of. I'd suggest this is not an issue for vast majority.

Overwatch is different since if you sink hours into that game the HUD is always the same and fixed!
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post #1136 of 4026 Old 09-14-2017, 09:40 PM
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Someone on reddit has posted Burn In from Overwatch:
https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/com...money_can_buy/
Wow, E6P trashed in only two months of Overwatch.

This is why LG needs to be honest about the issue and put giant red warning labels all over the TV and box. There are way too many ignorant first-time OLED users out there who won't know there is any burn-in risk at all until it's too late. Nobody reads user manuals either.
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post #1137 of 4026 Old 09-14-2017, 09:47 PM
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Wow, E6P trashed in only two months of Overwatch.

This is why LG needs to be honest about the issue and put giant red warning labels all over the TV and box. There are way too many ignorant first-time OLED users out there who won't know there is any burn-in risk at all until it's too late. Nobody reads user manuals either.
Agreed, but that would hurt sales. LG would rather make a small mention of image sticking in the manual and a small statement in the warranty that burn in is not covered, to protect themselves legally (arguable if that's enough). LG sure doesn't want to make the burn in potential front and center to potential customers.

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post #1138 of 4026 Old 09-15-2017, 02:22 AM
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Wow, E6P trashed in only two months of Overwatch.

This is why LG needs to be honest about the issue and put giant red warning labels all over the TV and box. There are way too many ignorant first-time OLED users out there who won't know there is any burn-in risk at all until it's too late. Nobody reads user manuals either.
And do what exactly? Tell them to not watch content they want to watch? Tell them to not use any oled light setting over 50, even though the tv ships with 80+ as the default? LG has no option but to do nothing and throw users under the bus and hope no one has the time and money to take it up in court for not selling a reasonable product. I doubt anyone here actually can, though.

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post #1139 of 4026 Old 09-15-2017, 03:57 AM
 
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It sucks that after spending a premium price on these TV's you guys are almost running scared what would happen if you constantly display a news channel logo or a video game hud or keep the oled light at maximum. My point is after spending this much money, you shouldn't have to worry about stuff like this. lg's woled is a good albeit flawed technology. I was asking someone at another forum if I could get an oled to use as a pc monitor running windows and he strictly advised me against it. He said constantly displaying the taskbar and various colored icons on it could result in burn in. Now compare this to the lcd tv I currently use as pc monitor since the last 4 years, I can run it 8-10 hours continuously with the desktop screen daily , sometimes I fall asleep without shutting down the pc and get up like after 4 hours, but there has never been a hint of burn in ever on my lcd tv even if look up close to the screen.
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
It sucks that after spending a premium price on these TV's you guys are almost running scared what would happen if you constantly display a news channel logo or a video game hud or keep the oled light at maximum. My point is after spending this much money, you shouldn't have to worry about stuff like this. lg's woled is a good albeit flawed technology. I was asking someone at another forum if I could get an oled to use as a pc monitor running windows and he strictly advised me against it. He said constantly displaying the taskbar and various colored icons on it could result in burn in. Now compare this to the lcd tv I currently use as pc monitor since the last 4 years, I can run it 8-10 hours continuously with the desktop screen daily , sometimes I fall asleep without shutting down the pc and get up like after 4 hours, but there has never been a hint of burn in ever on my lcd tv even if look up close to the screen.
LG OLED's should not be used as a monitor as you noted for long periods, but it's a fantastic 4K TV period and the industry thinks so too. So LG really doesn't have to do anything but warn you of static long term content will damage your TV. I never had this issue and would never go back to an LED TV for my main watching unless there is some major breakthrough that trumps the OLED's etc.
Spidergames likes this.

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Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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blacks , burn in , burn-in , cnbc , lg oled , lg tv , lg-tv , oled , oled burn-in , plasma

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