Master OLED image retention/ burn-in thread:with photos - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 06:53 PM
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Yes, seems to be a different QC issue for which the comp. cycle can't compensate.
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post #182 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoyd androyd View Post
What a laughable and condescending statement. Clearly it is a "real problem" for different owners. And that's the entire point of this thread - to discuss and document this issue. It's purpose is NOT for non-affected owners like yourself to continue saying how you don't personally suffer from the issue and therefore "it must not be a real problem".



What part of "it is a real problem if different owners are affected by it and can document it" don't you understand?



Here's the thing - no one in this specific thread cares that you don't have BI on your set, yet you keep repeating yourself over and over again. If you really must continue doing so, go talk about the lack of BI on your set in an owner's thread. This is not the thread for you to do so, rather it's intended for those with BI.. understand?



You just don't get it do you? Nowhere have BI-affected owners stated that their BI sets are "representative of the whole community". What they're simply doing here is documenting and discussing a real issue that not only has affected their sets, but could affect others. And more importantly, how they're apparently SOL with respect to getting their sets fixed!

Why does such a thread with such a purpose, which can only potentially help all current and future OLED enthusiasts, obviously bother you so much? Why? Enough already about your non-affected set. Let these affected owners have their space in peace.
Superb responses across the board! I almost did this earlier today but held back as we have a few egocentric posters her that feel the need to post for the 100th time that since they don't have the issue it isn't "REAL" world and isn't really a problem because it doesn't affect them. There was nothing even remotely rude about your comment!

I have attached some photos of another owner who has some vertical banding on his panel. Now since my set doesn't have this issue I really don't think it is a problem or a "REAL" world one anyway. It isn't an issue that progresses across continents and hasn't shown to be the norm by the majority of posters or they simply don't care. So it really is a non issue.
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post #183 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
NO need to be rude since you are not a moderator Rogue can post wherever he likes. I'll continue to post my experience as well . do you even own an Oled ? I see you don't based on your signature I have owned 2 oleds and not a hint of IR. My guess is 9 out of 10 people would say the same. Oleds have been around for about 4 years and this is the first dedicated thread for Ir/burn in that tells me it's a rare issue . Further we are talking about something that can't be seen on normal content . Compared to my IR magnet VT60 Ir is way down the list of my concerns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am a previous VT60 owner as well. Had a couple issues with severe IR, but at least it would dissipate over time or you could run the Disney pixel flipper in torch mode for a day and it would be severly diminished. As we see here running dead pixel, image retention content in torch mode does no good what so ever. You are dead wrong about it not being visible with actual content! It is very visible when ever warm colors hit that portion of the screen. If you actually had it you would know this. When I get my set back I will be posting many more photos of the IR with actual content.
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post #184 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 07:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
NO need to be rude since you are not a moderator Rogue can post wherever he likes. I'll continue to post my experience as well . do you even own an Oled ? I see you don't based on your signature I have owned 2 oleds and not a hint of IR. My guess is 9 out of 10 people would say the same. Oleds have been around for about 4 years and this is the first dedicated thread for Ir/burn in that tells me it's a rare issue . Further we are talking about something that can't be seen on normal content . Compared to my IR magnet VT60 Ir is way down the list of my concerns.


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I'm not being rude, just direct so as to keep things on topic. For the final time, no one is saying that BI is not a rare issue. No one. However, continued comments and implications like "because most OLEDs don't suffer from BI it must not be a real problem"... and "BI wouldn't be a top concern of mine", are tiresome to keep reading and divert from the thread's intention. And such continued comments do, in fact, invalidate this issue for those affected. And others have already replied with the same as well.

The point of this thread is to discuss, document, and hopefully resolve this issue that does affect some. I would think all OLED enthusiasts would encourage such a thing. Keep in mind, we're talking about BI here (not IR) and, more importantly, the unwillingness so far by LG to do anything about it. And who knows if other OLED TV OEMs like Sony, Panasonic, etc. will eventually take the same position on BI? Remains to be seen of course.

As for me not owning an OLED yet, if you must know, I've been waiting for a suitable larger size and also hope to purchase an 85"+ model if one becomes available near term, so... yeah.

Again, we all know that the vast vast vast majority of current OLED owners do not exhibit BI (and all OLED enthusiasts are very happy about that), but that's irrelevant to the purpose of this thread - the title of which is "OLED screen burn: with photos". Let's just keep it at that, rather than a place for non-affected owners to continue saying how they don't have BI and that BI really wouldn't be a top concern for them anyway. Honestly, I can't believe that some think this is too much to ask.
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post #185 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 07:16 PM
 
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I decided to trek upstairs and take these pics.. after 2 hard clear screens, the retention is down 1/2 that it was. The bar across was full whereas now you can only see the leftmost section with the CNN logo still on the right side.. it was worse than this before doing the 2 manual processes..

I started a 3rd clear screen just now after taking these pictures.. I'll see how that goes.

For best view of the issue, tilt your device screen forward and look at the pictures at a forward angle..

I used YouTube videos under the search "orange screen".

I suggest anyone buying a used OLED run a orange screen slide for checking the TV.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/373pysyy5...PUJiuk2ba?dl=0
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post #186 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostonmountain View Post
Tell them you are going to take them to small claims court.


Edit:
Useful info:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...tion/index.htm


and if that doesn't work file a claim against them with the BBB that will often wake them up (it did with Samsung when people had defective SSDs that Samsung refused to replace or refund, people who complained to BBB got their money back, the rest of us finally got a firmware update six months later to fix the problem).
Trust me I will easily go to these extremes to get LG to do the right thing! I already have some experience with the BBB after dealing with Benelli after they lost my Franchi over and under 20 ga. with exquisite wood sent in for repair. They sent me back a total dud with horrid wood I went to the BBB and they sent me a check for my shotgun for the original purchase price and I sent the gun back to them.
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post #187 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
I decided to trek upstairs and take these pics.. after 2 hard clear screens, the retention is down 1/2 that it was. The bar across was full whereas now you can only see the leftmost section with the CNN logo still on the right side.. it was worse than this before doing the 2 manual processes..

I started a 3rd clear screen just now after taking these pictures.. I'll see how that goes.

For best view of the issue, tilt your device screen forward and look at the pictures at a forward angle..

I used YouTube videos under the search "orange screen".

I suggest anyone buying a used OLED run a orange screen slide for checking the TV.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/373pysyy5...PUJiuk2ba?dl=0
Thanks for posting this REAL world problem! Extremely obvious on both slides.
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post #188 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 07:43 PM
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Now on to more LG incompetence. So I drive to my Pieratt's which sells and repairs LG TV's in house. I walk back to the repair desk and explain the issue I had with Doc's Electronics and them not being able to give me any information concerning who they talked to within technical service as that somehow is confidential information and why my repair was denied. Pieratt's tells me there is nothing confidential at all about who they spoke to and when. They should be able to provide a timeline of who they spoke to and when it occurred to include the response! Then they state you should be able to call customer service and there should be a track record of your repair at the location. There is nothing confidential about this information at all.

Now I call customer service to ask this question. She has no information concerning this. I tell the girl exactly the location and shop where the set currently is and ask her to look up a service record from this provider. She cannot find any information and shows no record of a diagnosis for my Oled ever being made. I ask her again to be very clear and explain my set has been there for 12 days and service was refused. Again she comes back with the same response that no diagnosis has ever been made for my Oled! She gives me a new repair request # and tells me to bring the set into Pieratt's for a diagnosis of the set.

To Be Continued.........

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post #189 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
I decided to trek upstairs and take these pics.. after 2 hard clear screens, the retention is down 1/2 that it was. The bar across was full whereas now you can only see the leftmost section with the CNN logo still on the right side.. it was worse than this before doing the 2 manual processes..

I started a 3rd clear screen just now after taking these pictures.. I'll see how that goes.

For best view of the issue, tilt your device screen forward and look at the pictures at a forward angle..

I used YouTube videos under the search "orange screen".

I suggest anyone buying a used OLED run a orange screen slide for checking the TV.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/373pysyy5...PUJiuk2ba?dl=0
Here are pictures of my C6P, have you stopped watching CNN to prevent further IR? I don't watch CNN any more in hope that it will resolve.
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post #190 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 08:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cantab1008 View Post
Here are pictures of my C6P, have you stopped watching CNN to prevent further IR? I don't watch CNN any more in hope that it will resolve.
I'll watch CNN and other TV stations with a static on-screen logo only 10mins tops..
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post #191 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 08:08 PM
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Wishful thinking my friend, you really need to go to the BBB or small claims. I will be going that route if needed.
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post #192 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
I decided to trek upstairs and take these pics.. after 2 hard clear screens, the retention is down 1/2 that it was. The bar across was full whereas now you can only see the leftmost section with the CNN logo still on the right side.. it was worse than this before doing the 2 manual processes..

I started a 3rd clear screen just now after taking these pictures.. I'll see how that goes.

For best view of the issue, tilt your device screen forward and look at the pictures at a forward angle..

I used YouTube videos under the search "orange screen".

I suggest anyone buying a used OLED run a orange screen slide for checking the TV.
Your photos in easier view
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post #193 of 3734 Old 05-02-2017, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
Superb responses across the board! I almost did this earlier today but held back as we have a few egocentric posters her that feel the need to post for the 100th time that since they don't have the issue it isn't "REAL" world and isn't really a problem because it doesn't affect them. There was nothing even remotely rude about your comment!

I have attached some photos of another owner who has some vertical banding on his panel. Now since my set doesn't have this issue I really don't think it is a problem or a "REAL" world one anyway. It isn't an issue that progresses across continents and hasn't shown to be the norm by the majority of posters or they simply don't care. So it really is a non issue.
Since you're trying to make some odd point using my photos and accusing others of being egotistical, I have to interject that there is no comparison in commonality between a known manufacturing limitation (vertical banding and VERY common) and the kind of color filter burn-in that you're experiencing, granted more folks are suddenly coming out of the woodwork reporting it. I would wager if you have no vertical banding, you are in the minority of owners versus this anomalous burn-in issue. After having 9 OLEDs in my home, all but the first had this vertical banding structure to one extent or another, and I have been documenting it since the beginning. Only the EA9800 was free of it, but it still suffered from a blotchy backplane. The IR issue is nowhere near the same level of occurrence. If banding wasn't so extensive, the law of averages should have favored me by now.

What's also funny (and insulting) is that you are claiming it's a nonissue when vertical banding along with vignetting are the biggest reasons folks return and exchange these sets. LG VIP support (before they scaled it back) told me early last year that the EF9500 exchange/return rate was at least 25%. The problem lessened in 2016 but is by no means gone including across continents. The manufacturing challenge still exists especially as you increase screen real estate. In fact, I challenge you to find a 77" without the problem.
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post #194 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Cantab1008 View Post
I have tried this multiple times but it does not make any difference. Is it possible that there is some issue with the clear panel noise mechanism. Is there a way to check that if the clear panel noise mechanism is working. I was told that this can only be check by TV techancian.
I have an energy meter connected to my 55C6V and this is how the manual compensation cycle behaves:

- For about 5 minutes it will draw around 50 watts of power (similar to the automatic compensation cycle)
- For the next ~55 minutes it will do absolutely nothing, 0 watts.
- At ~1 hour you will see a thin white line running across the screen from top to bottom
- After that the compensation cycle is complete

So if you want to check if yours is working just look for the white line that runs across the screen at about 1 hour.
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post #195 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 05:17 AM
 
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I have an energy meter connected to my 55C6V and this is how the manual compensation cycle behaves:

- For about 5 minutes it will draw around 50 watts of power (similar to the automatic compensation cycle)
- For the next ~55 minutes it will do absolutely nothing, 0 watts.
- At ~1 hour you will see a thin white line running across the screen from top to bottom
- After that the compensation cycle is complete

So if you want to check if yours is working just look for the white line that runs across the screen at about 1 hour.
Maybe it's doing computing during that 55 minutes, calculating stuff about LED usage or something? Those ARM chip consume like 2 watts.
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post #196 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 06:06 AM
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Maybe it's doing computing during that 55 minutes, calculating stuff about LED usage or something? Those ARM chip consume like 2 watts.
Yeah I guess the TV could have stored enough power internally to do the calculations. Either that or it requires the panel to cool down to room temperature and thus requires the 55 minute break, I don't really know.

Though I would still like to know if running the manual compensation cycle too often will wear down the panel quicker. People have opposite opinions about it and everyting seems to be just speculation.
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post #197 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 10:14 AM
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According to Sony's version on their Oled they don't recommend it more than once per year as it may decrease the panel life. It is stated in their manual. Maybe their version is far more aggressive.
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post #198 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Since you're trying to make some odd point using my photos and accusing others of being egotistical, I have to interject that there is no comparison in commonality between a known manufacturing limitation (vertical banding and VERY common) and the kind of color filter burn-in that you're experiencing, granted more folks are suddenly coming out of the woodwork reporting it. I would wager if you have no vertical banding, you are in the minority of owners versus this anomalous burn-in issue. After having 9 OLEDs in my home, all but the first had this vertical banding structure to one extent or another, and I have been documenting it since the beginning. Only the EA9800 was free of it, but it still suffered from a blotchy backplane. The IR issue is nowhere near the same level of occurrence. If banding wasn't so extensive, the law of averages should have favored me by now.

What's also funny (and insulting) is that you are claiming it's a nonissue when vertical banding along with vignetting are the biggest reasons folks return and exchange these sets. LG VIP support (before they scaled it back) told me early last year that the EF9500 exchange/return rate was at least 25%. The problem lessened in 2016 but is by no means gone including across continents. The manufacturing challenge still exists especially as you increase screen real estate. In fact, I challenge you to find a 77" without the problem.
The response was in jest to other posters and had nothing to do with you at all. Read the last 3 pages or so of posts and it will become crystal clear. Point being any issue these sets have are REAL problems to the owners that have them! Your vertical banding is definitely a serious issue make no mistake! Some egocentric posters were claiming since certain issues don't affect them (like the title of this thread) it is a non issue and not a REAL problem.

Your photos of the vertical banding are so bad I thought it was obvious I wasn't serious and was showing a little sarcasm, but definitely not aimed at you.
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post #199 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 11:38 AM
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Now I’d be curious if those that have suffered BI, can test to see if the clear panel noise function is working as outlined above and the checking for the white line after 55 minutes. However, without LG saying definitively what is what, we may just be chasing theories; and LG doesn’t seem to want to get involved. Of course now I am also concerned about running clear panel manually excessively. I’ve done several since having the TV less than a month, but I think I’ll stop doing them. Or maybe one last time to check if I see the white line.

Coming from a plasma, I got used to babying the TV somewhat, but IR always seemed to clear up. One thing I notice on my 65B6 is that bright object like the HD symbol on YouTube or the yellow icon on Amazon Video from the native app, will leave a temporary residual of the image, but clears up within seconds. This would seem to be IR, which to me should be normal. I have yet to have anything static on the screen for excessive amount of time though. It makes me wonder what I did leave something on there for a couple of hours, then what. BI on LG OLEDs seem to be a very real thing for some, but now I am cautious because we don’t know what is causing it.
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post #200 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
According to Sony's version on their Oled they don't recommend it more than once per year as it may decrease the panel life. It is stated in their manual. Maybe their version is far more aggressive.
I find that very careless of sony and lg if it really does decrease panel life. Most people won't read through the manual and if I didn't read about it here I would probably run the "clear panel noise" every other day or so.
They should at least put up a warning when you run it.
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post #201 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 12:03 PM
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Now I’d be curious if those that have suffered BI, can test to see if the clear panel noise function is working as outlined above and the checking for the white line after 55 minutes.
The white line running across the screen happens at around 1 hour, not 55 minutes. I didn't exactly time it so it might be off a minute or two.

Also the time required for the automatic compensation cycle is different between the 55 and 65 inch Oleds so for the manual cycle it might be too.
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post #202 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 12:37 PM
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I find that very careless of sony and lg if it really does decrease panel life. Most people won't read through the manual and if I didn't read about it here I would probably run the "clear panel noise" every other day or so.
They should at least put up a warning when you run it.
and Sony probably can determine how many times the manual process has been run, if there is a warranty claim
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post #203 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 12:41 PM
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The exact wording from Sony in their manual.

Caution:
• The Panel refresh function may affect the panel. As a reference, perform the Panel refresh only once a year, do not perform it more than once a year as it may affect the usable life of the panel.


However, we do not know if the Sony panel clean is more intensive than the LG. LG still does not warn about using that feature in the 2017 models.

LG 65E6P OLED - LG 65EF9500 OLED - OPPO 203 - OPPO 103D
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post #204 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 12:44 PM
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and Sony probably can determine how many times the manual process has been run, if there is a warranty claim
LG can too. In the SM you can see just how many times the 10 minute cycle and the 1 hour cycle has been run. What's interesting, if you call LG and complain about the vertical banding or IR , they tell you to run the 1 hour cycle multiple times. And last year I sent LG an email asking if running the one hour cycle multiple times would damage the tv, and they said no.

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post #205 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 01:01 PM
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LG can too. In the SM you can see just how many times the 10 minute cycle and the 1 hour cycle has been run. What's interesting, if you call LG and complain about the vertical banding or IR , they tell you to run the 1 hour cycle multiple times. And last year I sent LG an email asking if running the one hour cycle multiple times would damage the tv, and they said no.
I'm guessing they are at least slightly different processes. People have to remember that LG has sold them the panels but not the tech they have developed around the TVs.
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post #206 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 01:11 PM
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LG 65E6P OLED - LG 65EF9500 OLED - OPPO 203 - OPPO 103D
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post #207 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 01:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BerserkDoomguy View Post
I'm guessing they are at least slightly different processes. People have to remember that LG has sold them the panels but not the tech they have developed around the TVs.
Sure but my guess is that the tech to reduce retention was included in the package, I mean, it's kind of important.
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post #208 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 01:23 PM
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No burn in here, about 300 hours of screen on time so far and I use my 65 E6P as a computer monitor.

OLED is a game changer.
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post #209 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 03:34 PM
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No burn in here, about 300 hours of screen on time so far and I use my 65 E6P as a computer monitor.
I'm very tempted to also use mine as a monitor at times, but very worried about burn-in.

What's your oled light/contrast set to?
And do you take any precautions to avoid burn-in? Like hiding the task bar, black background and occasionally moving the windows of opened apps around?
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post #210 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 03:59 PM
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Nope nothing special use it as i normally would my monitors.
I think i have pixel shift enabled, that is supposed to help with burn in, but that's about it. The TV also has a built in screen saver, and it dims.

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OLED is a game changer.

Last edited by Exist_To_Resist; 05-03-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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