Master OLED image retention/ burn-in thread:with photos - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 05:04 PM
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Sony's manual "compensation cycle" process (dubbed "panel refresh") is very similar to what jk82 reported on the LG. I posted about the process on the A1E thread, and I edited it just now to add a picture of the famous "scrolling white line" I forgot I had taken, if anyone might find it useful.

Sony A1E OLED Panel Refresh

Regarding burn-in, I'm so sorry this is happening... It was a bit sad to me that some people (not just on this forum) were so quick to just sweep the topic under the rug when it would get brought up or when someone would even mention they think they might have BI.
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post #212 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 05:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValkyrieStation View Post
Sony's manual "compensation cycle" process (dubbed "panel refresh") is very similar to what jk82 reported on the LG. I posted about the process on the A1E thread, and I edited it just now to add a picture of the famous "scrolling white line" I forgot I had taken, if anyone might find it useful.

Sony A1E OLED Panel Refresh

Regarding burn-in, I'm so sorry this is happening... It was a bit sad to me that some people (not just on this forum) were so quick to just sweep the topic under the rug when it would get brought up or when someone would even mention they think they might have BI.

Well we did not sweep the topic under the rug.

Every Time someone told us they had Burn In, we only asked for Pictures or Videos, however for months all those request remain unanswered. It's not that complicated, we wanted evidence. The reason why it's because it was usually new user with 1-5 post.

We now have pictures and no one is denying that Burn in exist now.
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post #213 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValkyrieStation View Post
Sony's manual "compensation cycle" process (dubbed "panel refresh") is very similar to what jk82 reported on the LG. I posted about the process on the A1E thread, and I edited it just now to add a picture of the famous "scrolling white line" I forgot I had taken, if anyone might find it useful.

Sony A1E OLED Panel Refresh
Now I'm pretty convinced that Sony's "panel refresh" is the exact same thing as LG's "clear panel noise" and looking at your pictures it even warns on screen about not using it more than once a year before starting the procedure.

This makes me a bit worried because I ran "clear panel noise" three times in a row trying to get rid of banding.
I really would like a technical explanation of what it really does and why it does or doesn't strain the panel.
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post #214 of 3734 Old 05-03-2017, 11:42 PM
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Well I just get done talking to LG again after picking up my Oled. It appears they didn't authorize my service center to do work what so ever on my set. So basically it just sat at a service center for 12 days. The service center again stated they looked at my set, yet refused to tell me who they spoke to at technical support or customer service saying it was confidential. They also initially refused to send me the photos they supposedly sent to LG to show them my issue saying they were deleted from the hard drive. They did send me photos of the issue but this was after I refused to pick up the set until they did so they probably were taken after the fact. They also stated they went threw three levels of upper management to get my set fixed yet couldn't tell me who they spoke to or when.

Now speaking today to the techs at Pieratt's who deal with LG everyday they again clearly state any work through tech support on your set or dealings with management would easily show up in your file to include who specifically dealt with the issue and when and there was nothing confidential about it. Probably why when 2 days ago I spoke to customer service they had no record of my set ever being diagnosed or what service center it was at and yet I am in the car driving to go pick it up. I also asked very early on for them to check the compensation cycle circuitry to make sure it was working properly and they tell me they did. Yet it was never authorized and I was never charged so it looks at most maybe photos were sent to LG which they have no record of and I get a pamphlet that explains how to run compensation cycles to clear up IR. Also Kyle a tech at LG who is very polite this evening takes a look at my photos and again can only see red rectangles. Funny how anyone at LG can't see the IR when it is clearly visible to everyone here on these forums! I have posted numerous times already and no need to post again so if curious go 3 pages back to posts 141-142. Yet he does state having menus burn in sounds like it could be manufacturing defect, you think!

To say I am at loss for words here is an understatement. To top off the evening the IR on my set is worse now and clearly more delineated after getting the set back.

Last edited by PRO-630HD; 05-04-2017 at 12:00 AM.
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post #215 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Exist_To_Resist View Post
No burn in here, about 300 hours of screen on time so far and I use my 65 E6P as a computer monitor.
Your hours are still relatively low compared to most of the people reporting BI. Have you actually checked if BI is present using orange background similar to what Al did here?
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post #216 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 05:10 AM
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Now I'm pretty convinced that Sony's "panel refresh" is the exact same thing as LG's "clear panel noise" and looking at your pictures it even warns on screen about not using it more than once a year before starting the procedure.

This makes me a bit worried because I ran "clear panel noise" three times in a row trying to get rid of banding.
I really would like a technical explanation of what it really does and why it does or doesn't strain the panel.
LG goes as far to mention to expect a few "stuck" pixels. If "Clear Panel Noise" did any type of harm, I'm sure that they would've mentioned it somewhere.

Also I haven't noticed any burn-in or BS, the TV is fantastic.
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post #217 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Your hours are still relatively low compared to most of the people reporting BI. Have you actually checked if BI is present using orange background similar to what Al did here?
BI, BS?

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post #218 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
Also Kyle a tech at LG who is very polite this evening takes a look at my photos and again can only see red rectangles. Funny how anyone at LG can't see the IR when it is clearly visible to everyone here on these forums! I have posted numerous times already and no need to post again so if curious go 3 pages back to posts 141-142. Yet he does state having menus burn in sounds like it could be manufacturing defect, you think!
Do they only employ blind people at LG?

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post #219 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 03:09 PM
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Do they only employ blind people at LG?
I spoke to a manager today at Best Buy about my issue since that is where I purchased my set. I showed him the photos I had sent into LG. His responce "they are flat out lying to you." He could clearly see the IR in every single photo on my Moto Z with a 5 in. screen. Next he stated "a menu should never ever cause burn in to a screen, that is ridiculous" much like BB LG rep Danny had stated in one of my earliest posts on this topic.

Now another issue. People with this problem where LG is just flat out refusing to perform any assemblance of customer care for in warranty products is contact the establishment where you purchased so corporate from the store can kindly remind LG to start taking care of their consumers. If LG refuses to send someone to my home to diagnose the set, especially the compensation cycle circuitry or other defects within the main board that could cause this issue Best Buy is sending their in service 3rd party specialists to my home to diagnose the set if LG refuses. At this point I highly doubt LG will step up to the plate and do the right thing, but we will see. Point being if photos are sent to their customer service and they are calling it burn in a tech should still be sent to the home to make sure the problem was not caused by a defect in the television as already outlined above.

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post #220 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 03:22 PM
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For those with the issue as well you need to contact the Better Business Bureau.

https://www.bbb.org/northern-alabama...le-al-15001244

256-533-1640 that is the # for the Huntsville, Alabama BBB location, that is the one yo need to go through for LG.

Also people need to check the small claims court stipulations where you live. The monetary compensation defined by the courts does vary from state to state. If you are moving as I am, file in what ever state has the higher compensation to cover the cost of the television.

This is ridiculous to have to go to these lengths, but good customer service prevents these very issues!

Speaking of customer service back in the day I owned a Pioneer VSX-D906S receiver that I had purchased from the Post Exchange catalog through the military. One day lightning struck and crashed my unit back in the late 90's. Without even thinking I bought the receiver into a local Pioneer service center called Woods Electronics and guess what? They replaced the main board and fixed the problem. Today I realize that is an out of warranty repair even back then. Nice to know some company's always seemed to just do the right thing!!! Well it paid off for them as I still have a Pioneer Elite SC-67 in my rack and it is the 6th Pioneer receiver I have owned. I also owned 2 Pioneer televisions one being an Elite, 4 Pioneer DVD players again the last being an Elite and 1 Pioneer Elite Bluray player. Some companies just seem to get it! Good customer service brings back future business for decades to come.
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post #221 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 06:46 PM
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lol BBB.
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post #222 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
For those with the issue as well you need to contact the Better Business Bureau.

https://www.bbb.org/northern-alabama...le-al-15001244

256-533-1640 that is the # for the Huntsville, Alabama BBB location, that is the one yo need to go through for LG.

Also people need to check the small claims court stipulations where you live. The monetary compensation defined by the courts does vary from state to state. If you are moving as I am, file in what ever state has the higher compensation to cover the cost of the television.

This is ridiculous to have to go to these lengths, but good customer service prevents these very issues!

Speaking of customer service back in the day I owned a Pioneer VSX-D906S receiver that I had purchased from the Post Exchange catalog through the military. One day lightning struck and crashed my unit back in the late 90's. Without even thinking I bought the receiver into a local Pioneer service center called Woods Electronics and guess what? They replaced the main board and fixed the problem. Today I realize that is an out of warranty repair even back then. Nice to know some company's always seemed to just do the right thing!!! Well it paid off for them as I still have a Pioneer Elite SC-67 in my rack and it is the 6th Pioneer receiver I have owned. I also owned 2 Pioneer televisions one being an Elite, 4 Pioneer DVD players again the last being an Elite and 1 Pioneer Elite Bluray player. Some companies just seem to get it! Good customer service brings back future business for decades to come.
Good luck. I have to interject that Pioneer didn't really take care of me when I received a 5020FD with an ugly stuck pixel, but I did like the product (and bought several more Kuros due to them being the best game in town) . LG was going out of their way to help folks as OLED was just being launched, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're slipping now, which they seem to be based on your treatment.
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post #223 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 09:16 PM
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Good luck. I have to interject that Pioneer didn't really take care of me when I received a 5020FD with an ugly stuck pixel, but I did like the product (and bought several more Kuros due to them being the best game in town) . LG was going out of their way to help folks as OLED was just being launched, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're slipping now, which they seem to be based on your treatment.
EF9500 was a defective design, there would have been a class action lawsuit if they did not just exchange/buy back the problem sets.

I get the feeling in 2016 they ran the numbers and along with manufacturing improvements decided it was more profitable to tell their customers where they can shove their complaints...
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post #224 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 09:34 PM
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Even before the EF9500, they were willing to switch out the panel on my EA9800 for its ~10 dead subpixels (as they should have).
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post #225 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 10:39 PM
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EF9500 was a defective design, there would have been a class action lawsuit if they did not just exchange/buy back the problem sets.

I get the feeling in 2016 they ran the numbers and along with manufacturing improvements decided it was more profitable to tell their customers where they can shove their complaints...
Unfortunately, when buying these expensive tv's, you almost always need to buy an extended warranty, and not from the manufacturer.
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so, when tv services start having sports in HDR, you think IR or burn-in might be a more common problem with oled tvs? Think about those logos and game score boxes in HDR..

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post #227 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 11:10 PM
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so, when tv services start having sports in HDR, you think IR or burn-in might be a more common problem with oled tvs? Think about those logos and game score boxes in HDR..
Not really. LG actually suggested switching tv to store mode to get rid of BI in one of the posts. Store mode is basically vivid mode with everything cranked to the max. So vivid mode must not cause any issues. The tv's 10 minute compensation cycle must run more effectively when the tv is maxed out. As far as HDR for sports and regular tv, I doubt that will be coming anytime soon, at least in the US, unless its via streaming.

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post #228 of 3734 Old 05-04-2017, 11:30 PM
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Not really. LG actually suggested switching tv to store mode to get rid of BI in one of the posts. Store mode is basically vivid mode with everything cranked to the max. So vivid mode must not cause any issues. The tv's 10 minute compensation cycle must run more effectively when the tv is maxed out. As far as HDR for sports and regular tv, I doubt that will be coming anytime soon, at least in the US, unless its via streaming.

HLG/HDR will be available to implement by the end of summer. Robert Zohn said last week when he attended NAB and had a presentation, hes pretty confident we're going to see HDR this year for sure. As a matter of fact, at the event, at least 2 cable companies announced support for HDR fairly soon. It was on a few tech news websites too. I know 1 cable company was based in North Carolina I believe. Not sure if this includes sports this year, but its coming within the next year or so. so if you buy a tv now, assuming you have it for a few years, HDR sports will eventually be on your plate if thats what you want.

more info on HDR in the USA:

http://www.satellitetoday.com/broadc...l-ultra-hd-us/

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...Consumer-Ultra

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post #229 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
HLG/HDR will be available to implement by the end of summer. Robert Zohn said last week when he attended NAB and had a presentation, hes pretty confident we're going to see HDR this year for sure. As a matter of fact, at the event, at least 2 cable companies announced support for HDR fairly soon. It was on a few tech news websites too. I know 1 cable company was based in North Carolina I believe. Not sure if this includes sports this year, but its coming within the next year or so. so if you buy a tv now, assuming you have it for a few years, HDR sports will eventually be on your plate if thats what you want.

more info on HDR in the USA:

http://www.satellitetoday.com/broadc...l-ultra-hd-us/

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...Consumer-Ultra
I'm not too confident I will see this on my E6, as I have my doubts LG will update my tv to support HLG. I think it will be an empty promise.

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Not really. LG actually suggested switching tv to store mode to get rid of BI in one of the posts. Store mode is basically vivid mode with everything cranked to the max. So vivid mode must not cause any issues. The tv's 10 minute compensation cycle must run more effectively when the tv is maxed out. As far as HDR for sports and regular tv, I doubt that will be coming anytime soon, at least in the US, unless its via streaming.

Or Lg is just dumb you are giving customer service reps way too much credit , for example in 2013 Panasonics fix for the yellow blob issue was to turn blue bias up in the greyscale lol



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post #231 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 12:14 PM
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This is LG's latest & probably last reply.



On 04/05/2017 16:36, cic uk wrote:
>
> Dear Mr Vallis,
>
>
>
> I hope you are well.
>
>
>
> Although we cannot be certain of the exact circumstances that caused the screen burn to your T.V and we have no way of knowing whether or not you regularly pause live T.V, we can be certain that the this issue has not been caused by a mechanical or electrical fault and is not the result of a manufacturing defect and therefore is not covered under the LG warranty.
>
>
>
> Any static image that is displayed on the screen for long a period of time can damage the screen, this includes the ‘banner’ or ‘news reel’ that is displayed at the bottom screen when watching any of the 24 hours news channels such as Sky News, BBC News 24 or Sky Sports News.
>
>
>
> Although I sypathise with your situation it is the opinion of the senior management and technical support teams within LG that you as a consumer are responsible for what you view on your T.V and that if your T.V is damaged as a result of the content that is being viewed we as a manufacturer will not rectify such damage under the warranty.
>
> I must stress at this point that your complaint has been escalated to the highest possible levels within LG and their final decision is to decline your request for a replacement T.V, refund or free of charge repair.
>
>
>
> Lastly I know you have run through a lot of diagnostics and troubleshooting with our technical agents but I would strongly advise you to continue to use the clear panel noise feature as this should eventually remove or at least reduce the severity of the screen burn on your T.V.
>
>
>
> Instructions for running clear panel noise
>
>
>
> 1. Press the ‘settings’ button on the remote
>
> 2. Select ‘all settings’
>
> 3. Select ‘Picture’
>
> 4. Select ‘OLED Panel’
>
> 5. Select ‘clear panel noise’
>
> 6. Please note that the clear panel noise function can take several hours to complete.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Richard Ellerbeck
>
> Team leader
>
> LG Resolutions Team
> LG Electronics UK Helpdesk



Have replied to this stating I do not accept this outcome thus shall be starting court proceedings against the supplier for selling an item not fit for purpose
Here in the UK, consumer law states that within the first 6 months you can get a full refund if an item is either faulty or not fit for purpose.
As the retailer never stated restricted viewing I believe it is not fit for purpose.
I still don't understand why LG would think anybody would "live pause" a news channel for any length of time, rather defeats the purpose of news.(live pause on Sky Q only lasts 30 min anyway).
I will let you know when this is resolved.
To all you fellow sufferers out there, good luck & hope yours is also resolved to your satisfaction.
Oh my TV comes back on Sunday so if you need any more pics with different background colors, let me know.
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post #232 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Vallis View Post
This is LG's latest & probably last reply.



On 04/05/2017 16:36, cic uk wrote:
>
> Dear Mr Vallis,
>
>
>
> I hope you are well.
>
>
>
> Although we cannot be certain of the exact circumstances that caused the screen burn to your T.V and we have no way of knowing whether or not you regularly pause live T.V, we can be certain that the this issue has not been caused by a mechanical or electrical fault and is not the result of a manufacturing defect and therefore is not covered under the LG warranty.
>
>
>
> Any static image that is displayed on the screen for long a period of time can damage the screen, this includes the ‘banner’ or ‘news reel’ that is displayed at the bottom screen when watching any of the 24 hours news channels such as Sky News, BBC News 24 or Sky Sports News.
>
>
>
> Although I sypathise with your situation it is the opinion of the senior management and technical support teams within LG that you as a consumer are responsible for what you view on your T.V and that if your T.V is damaged as a result of the content that is being viewed we as a manufacturer will not rectify such damage under the warranty.
>
> I must stress at this point that your complaint has been escalated to the highest possible levels within LG and their final decision is to decline your request for a replacement T.V, refund or free of charge repair.
>
>
>
> Lastly I know you have run through a lot of diagnostics and troubleshooting with our technical agents but I would strongly advise you to continue to use the clear panel noise feature as this should eventually remove or at least reduce the severity of the screen burn on your T.V.
>
>
>
> Instructions for running clear panel noise
>
>
>
> 1. Press the ‘settings’ button on the remote
>
> 2. Select ‘all settings’
>
> 3. Select ‘Picture’
>
> 4. Select ‘OLED Panel’
>
> 5. Select ‘clear panel noise’
>
> 6. Please note that the clear panel noise function can take several hours to complete.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Richard Ellerbeck
>
> Team leader
>
> LG Resolutions Team
> LG Electronics UK Helpdesk



Have replied to this stating I do not accept this outcome thus shall be starting court proceedings against the supplier for selling an item not fit for purpose
Here in the UK, consumer law states that within the first 6 months you can get a full refund if an item is either faulty or not fit for purpose.
As the retailer never stated restricted viewing I believe it is not fit for purpose.
I still don't understand why LG would think anybody would "live pause" a news channel for any length of time, rather defeats the purpose of news.(live pause on Sky Q only lasts 30 min anyway).
I will let you know when this is resolved.
To all you fellow sufferers out there, good luck & hope yours is also resolved to your satisfaction.
Oh my TV comes back on Sunday so if you need any more pics with different background colors, let me know.
I would write back to them and ask if it's even safe to run the clear panel that often. Sony uses the same panel and says running it more than once a year will shorten the life of the tv. So are they telling you to shorten the life of the panel?
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post #233 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 03:46 PM
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I would write back to them and ask if it's even safe to run the clear panel that often. Sony uses the same panel and says running it more than once a year will shorten the life of the tv. So are they telling you to shorten the life of the panel?
Did you saw chad b C7 review? He did multiple manual comp cycles for the purpose of break in the panel and to get stable readings.


I did about 10 of those manual comp during break in.

I honestly don't think that it cause permanent damage ,my panel now looks cleaner with no banding and is much more stable.

Last edited by losservatore; 05-05-2017 at 03:58 PM.
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post #234 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 03:50 PM
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I recently contacted LG support about the 'clear panel noise' function, trying to be as clear and specific as I could, asking if it can degrade panel life time or be harmful in any way when running it regularly.

Even though they forwarded my question to an upper level, they didn't even seem to understand what I was talking about. The only answers I got were about the automatic 4 hour compensation cycle as if the manual 'clear panel noise" function didn't exist.

I wish some big TV website would contact them, demanding an official statement regarding the manual compensation cycle.
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post #235 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 04:09 PM
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Did you saw chad b C7 review? He did multiple manual comp cycles for the purpose of break in the panel and to get stable readings.


I did about 10 of those manual comp during break in.

I honestly don't think that it cause permanent damage ,my panel now looks cleaner with no banding and is much more stable.
Wow, 10 times. I ran it 3 or 4 times, didn't see much difference, so I called it quits.
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post #236 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 04:17 PM
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Wow, 10 times. I ran it 3 or 4 times, didn't see much difference, so I called it quits.
Lol ,I always did break in on my plasmas and I feel that the plasma break in was more aggressive.

You saw my Picture ,thats why it looks clean regarding banding.


I can confirm that it does improve banding and the panel gets stable.


Maybe it last 1,000 hours less than yours? who knows lol


I have no plans on keeping this tv for more than 5 years. Minimal 3 years.
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post #237 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 04:28 PM
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I can confirm that it does improve banding and the panel gets stable.
Do you have some before/after pictures?
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post #238 of 3734 Old 05-05-2017, 04:33 PM
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Do you have some before/after pictures?

I have to look for the before pictures on my PC. I'm on my Phone right now.
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yes
It seems all manufacturer warranties exclude burn in and all I have are worded that way in the factory warranty wording

Best Buy's extended service does cover burn in....so perhaps that is the key for those OLED units bought from Best Buy


Warren
"Pixel Repair and Burn-In Coverage for TVs - We'll get your screen back to pristine condition if your pixels start looking weird or a shadow image sticks."

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/geek-squ...at280100050012

Have you purchased it before for an OLED or plasma you own? If so, for example, does it specify that BB will replace the entire panel in the case of true BI? Do they define BI in specific language and set requirements that an affected owner's panel must exhibit before being eligible for replacement?

I've asked different BB's about this in person recently and both were extremely vague with respect to replacement.
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post #240 of 3734 Old 05-06-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by paranoyd androyd View Post
"Pixel Repair and Burn-In Coverage for TVs - We'll get your screen back to pristine condition if your pixels start looking weird or a shadow image sticks."

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/geek-squ...at280100050012

Have you purchased it before for an OLED or plasma you own? If so, for example, does it specify that BB will replace the entire panel in the case of true BI? Do they define BI in specific language and set requirements that an affected owner's panel must exhibit before being eligible for replacement?

I've asked different BB's about this in person recently and both were extremely vague with respect to replacement.
I have purchased it for a plasma panel...though I have never made a claim on it for that reason
In my experience..Best Buy warranties are almost no questions asked

They do tend do be more expensive though

I would imagine if there is no other way to fix a burned in image other than replacing the panel...then that is what they would have to do

I would also say that if the TV is more than 2-3 years old they will likely just give you a gift card for your original purchase price
I say that because parts dont seem to stay in production long after a TV model is discontinued

Warren

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