OLED Overhype? Are these forums only good for the enthusiasts? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 261Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:37 PM
 
Al Leong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2007 Post(s)
Liked: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Excuse me, but I really don't care what your background is.
Mods.. this disrespect is too sharp.

No one owes this guy any hand holding..
shyguy3763 likes this.
Al Leong is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:38 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 11,312
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3778 Post(s)
Liked: 3606
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Oh boy - another one of these threads. I was going to type a reply. But, Im not. Gotta go watch the Pens and Caps with my daughter, Game #6. Oh, and the hockey game looks BREATH-TAKING on my 65" E6. Ill just suffer with that.



OLED - its whats for dinner.





we have been there and done that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LG 77C8
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar
Calman Enthusiast, Lightspace, C6 HDR 2000 I1Pro2
chunon is offline  
post #63 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
D-Nice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 16,780
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 3596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Excuse me, but I really don't care what your background is. When you start a response with "The typical American consumer is attracted to bright shiny objects"....that is condescending.
If the shoe fits, wear it. The truth hurts sometimes. Classify that as condescending.

Quote:
When you write about how you can't understand how someone thinks an OLED is more dim and that is 'pure ignorance', that is condescending.
Ignorance is a plenty in this country. Since you apparently don't know the definition of ignorance, it means lacks knowledge. Since I passed first hand knowledge to you and you classified it as condescending.... well.....

If I called you dumb for posting your original post on an Enthusiast site in a forum consisting of OLED owners and "fans", I would agree with you.... but I didn't now did I. 'People are attracted to bright shiny objects'.... I've said that hundreds of times to my clients and not one of them EVER thought it was condescending.

Having said that, I've been on this forum since '04. I've seen many posts like yours over the years. I see where you said you work for a bank, however the style and "technique' of your original post questions that validity. Personally, I think you either work for Samsung or a third party marketing party. I based this on my knowledge of the industry and experience on this board. If that is not the case, you may want to check what you type and where.


Quote:
So perhaps you should have focused on what you thought might be helpful and less on these types of blanket characterizations being what I wrote was what you were referring to.
I did. You took it personal. Fascinating how humans interpret tone in simplistic black and white texts. Says a lot about one's personality. You can classify that as condescending

Quote:
We just were standing in the store looking at the OLEDs and we HONESTLY couldn't not understand why someone would have picked one up at those prices with what we first saw. The fact that the content, lighting, etc may have skewed what we saw doesn't change our first impressions. Anyway, I appreciate the response and I'll research more.
You know a store environment skews what you see but it doesn't change your impression?!?!?! ..... hmmmm. I guess what the rest of the world says about we Americans has some validity. I'll slap myself on the hand for another condescending comment
hughh, wxman, JonW747 and 10 others like this.
D-Nice is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:47 PM
Super Moderator
 
markrubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 21,116
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1779 Post(s)
Liked: 3556
OP should appreciate that D-Nice posts here...he is a well respected expert on AVS

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it
HDMI.org:what a mess HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
LG C9 OLED owner



Last edited by markrubin; 05-09-2017 at 12:02 AM.
markrubin is offline  
post #65 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:48 PM
10k
AVS Forum Special Member
 
10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,411
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2142 Post(s)
Liked: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
I just never thought I would see a 77" TV for $19,999. That is laughable to me. The fact that a Q9 is $10,000 is laughable to me. The only one that is reasonable to some degree is the Sony.
value is obviously a relative and also personal concept, but even I cannot get to a point where I could honestly tell myself that a TV is $11,000 better than the 75" z9, which is also an excellent tv.

Whether the z9 is better or worse than the oled has enough opinions in this thread so i will just say that you could build an AMAZING atmos surround setup with that $11000 price difference.
PannyMann and George Weasley like this.
10k is offline  
post #66 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Leong View Post
Ok, dude, you just disrespected one of the more well respected pros on the forum.
D-Nice started off his post with a condescending tone. Keithian called him on it, and he was correct, it was condescending. At no point did Keithian "disrespect" D-Nice - even in spite of the way the post started off, Keithian admitted D-Nice had some good points.

Just because you are a "pro", or know a lot about AV, doesn't give you the right to talk down to people. Especially new forum members. Is that what we're about here?

I've seen this sort of thing several times. It's not the first.
donkrx is offline  
post #67 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:52 PM
Member
 
aypues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 42
OP should've posted this in the LCD forums with a slightly different title to get better feedback, unless he is a paid troll.

Just get one and be done with it!
NintendoManiac64 likes this.
aypues is offline  
post #68 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:53 PM
 
Al Leong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2007 Post(s)
Liked: 2257
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
D-Nice started off his post with a condescending tone. Keithian called him on it, and he was correct, it was condescending. At no point did Keithian "disrespect" D-Nice - even in spite of the way the post started off, Keithian admitted D-Nice had some good points.

Just because you are a "pro", or know a lot about AV, doesn't give you the right to talk down to people. Especially new forum members. Is that what we're about here?

I've seen this sort of thing several times. It's not the first.
In the OLED threads, where people pay a premium to get a premium product, its disrespectful to address any pro calibrator in such a manner.

This is not avforums.. its avsforums.. there's a per-capita difference in the crowd.
hughh, skip61 and dodo/lurker like this.
Al Leong is offline  
post #69 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:54 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 11,312
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3778 Post(s)
Liked: 3606
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
D-Nice started off his post with a condescending tone. Keithian called him on it, and he was correct, it was condescending. At no point did Keithian "disrespect" D-Nice - even in spite of the way the post started off, Keithian admitted D-Nice had some good points.

Just because you are a "pro", or know a lot about AV, doesn't give you the right to talk down to people. Especially new forum members. Is that what we're about here?

I've seen this sort of thing several times. It's not the first.


The problem is the tone of the first post , who makes a first post like that anyway ? It is at the very least suspicious . There are shills all over this forum that is a fact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JonW747 and dodo/lurker like this.

LG 77C8
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar
Calman Enthusiast, Lightspace, C6 HDR 2000 I1Pro2
chunon is offline  
post #70 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 04:59 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 11,312
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3778 Post(s)
Liked: 3606
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post
value is obviously a relative and also personal concept, but even I cannot get to a point where I could honestly tell myself that a TV is $11,000 better than the 75" z9, which is also an excellent tv.



Whether the z9 is better or worse than the oled has enough opinions in this thread so i will just say that you could build an AMAZING atmos surround setup with that $11000 price difference.


I can't see paying the extra cash either heck for that price setup a dedicated room a bad ass projector and sound system .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
10k likes this.

LG 77C8
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar
Calman Enthusiast, Lightspace, C6 HDR 2000 I1Pro2
chunon is offline  
post #71 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 05:03 PM
Member
 
JeremyBramble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 33
You know OP, my recommendation is to get a 55 inch OLED and set it up next to your current display. Apply TV settings that other members have posted on here and or use rtings as a start. Compare daytime and nighttime usage of the two displays. If you don't like the OLED, return it in the 30 day window. If you do like it, well you can come to the decision as to how to move forward.

I'm a firm believer in 'beauty in the eye of the beholder'. If you like a desaturated, accurate or saturated picture, more power to you -- settle for what makes you happy. Having said that, as a gamer myself, I really recommend you try the OLED in your environment. I came from a Pioner Kuro and Sony LCD, but the move to OLED was very a big upgrade. Without using too many words, it really felt like I was experiencing games for the first time. So it's definitely worth a try.
JeremyBramble is offline  
post #72 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 05:25 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
D-Nice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 16,780
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 3596
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
D-Nice started off his post with a condescending tone.
Welcome to the forum. The typical American consumer is attracted to bright shiny objects.... you just proved TV manufacturing marketing right.

This was th4 beginning of my post. 'Welcome to the forum'.... acknowledging he just joined the forum. Condescending?

'The typical American consumer is attracted to bright shiny objects'.... It is the truth and the reason why Dynamic/Vivid mode exists on TVs. People gravitate to the brightest TV in big box stores. Marketing 101 my friend. That was condescending? Or was it because the word "American" was in there? Hmmm.....

'you just proved TV manufacturing marketing right.'..... Yes he did and it is the number one factor why it has been so difficult to deal with Samsung on my side of the house when it comes to discussing the performance of the Q series with them. I'll elaborate....

The Q series is unlike any of their previous models and all modes produce images based on feedback solely from "joe six pack" to marketing.... something that has never happened before with Samsung TVs. The Q series is not designed for enthusiasts found on this and other forums. It is not capable of being calibrated to the accuracy of previous Samsung TV offerings or competitor products either. In other words it is the first Samsung TV product this decade that does not have the capability of producing a picture close to being true to source.

So saying he proves marketing right is condescending?
D-Nice is offline  
post #73 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 05:45 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: S.F.
Posts: 1,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked: 476
@Keithian - We still have our 70" Sharp Elite as well. Will make this simple for you, as this specific issue has been discussed in numerous recent 75"+ threads.

LCD ratings at 75"+ sizes:

1. 75" Sony Z9D
2. 75" Sony 940E
3. 75" Sony 940D
4. 78" Samsung KS9800
5. 75" Vizio P75 (budget price, but will at least give you black bars and much better blacks than QLED)
6. Samsung QLED (edge-lit)

In short, avoid QLED like the plague since there's already 5 much better FALD LCD options at 75"/78". And the Z9D is by far the best LCD on that list.

However, 77" OLED options aren't as expensive as you think. For example, you can currently get a 77" 2016 LG G6 for $13K if you wanted to save some money and had to buy now. But overall, I would highly recommend waiting for the 2017 77" Sony A1E OLED to hit the shelves in the fall, as it won't be much more than that currently discounted priced 2016 LG G6 model.

Also, can you confirm which set you're coming from? - You first said "my Pioneer 70" Pro-70x5fd Elite TV", but then later called it a "Pioneer plasma". Unless you're confusing a different set you may own, the PRO-70X5FD you mentioned is part of the Elite brand, but was actually manufactured by Sharp. And it's an LCD, not a plasma. FYI, Pioneer never made a 70" plasma. Only reason I'm asking you this is because, like I said, we still have our 70" Sharp Elite as well, but it's a totally different picture than OLED and any of the plasmas we own.
aypues likes this.

Last edited by paranoyd androyd; 05-08-2017 at 06:20 PM.
paranoyd androyd is offline  
post #74 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoyd androyd View Post
@Keithian - We still have our 70" Sharp Elite as well. Will make this simple for you, as this specific issue has been discussed in numerous recent 75"+ threads.

LCD ratings at 75"+ sizes:

1. 75" Sony Z9D
2. 75" Sony 940E
3. 75" Sony 940D
4. 78" Samsung KS9800
5. 75" Vizio P75 (budget price, but will at least give you black bars and much better blacks than QLED)
6. Samsung QLED (edge-lit)

In short, avoid QLED like the plague since there's already 5 much better FALD LCD options at 75"/78". And the Z9D is by far the best LCD on that list.

However, 77" OLED options aren't as expensive as you think. For example, you can currently get a 77" 2016 LG G6 for $13K if you wanted to save some money and had to buy now. But overall, I would highly recommend waiting for the 2017 77" Sony A1E OLED to hit the shelves in the fall, as it won't be much more than that currently discounted priced 2016 LG G6 model.

Also, can you confirm which set you're coming from? - You first said "my Pioneer 70" Pro-70x5fd Elite TV", but then later called it a "Pioneer plasma". Unless you're confusing a different set you may own, the PRO-70X5FD you mentioned is part of the Elite brand, but was actually manufactured by Sharp. And it's an LCD, not a plasma. FYI, Pioneer never made a 70" plasma. Only reason I'm asking you this is because, like I said, we still have our 70" Sharp Elite as well, but it's a totally different picture than OLED and any of the plasmas we own.
Thank you for the advice. As I've stated in a couple of my other replies, yes, I need to do a bit more in person comparisons between the Sony and the Q9 as despite the OLED bias here, the consensus seems to be that Sony is the better buy. Whether that is hate for Samsung or not I have no idea....but in the end...I need to do more research. I may take your advice and wait a bit more for what is down the pipeline with Sony as I didn't know they also had a 77" coming in.

As far as the Elite, my bad...I was confused with what I owned...it is the right model number but if it isn't a Plasma then I believe you lol..further proof that I am not a Samsung specialist as one or two suggested...I'm just someone who was looking for a new TV to upgrade from 1080P to 4K with gaming as one of the reasons and I couldn't understand the pull to pay premium for what I was seeing in the store i went to. Yes, I know it was some type of a join venture and I recall in my first year where even those companies would misdirect me for help with regard to reaching out to technical support before a person finally figured out there was a specific elite phone number...but that was years ago. I love my TV, I just can't put up with the resolution for gaming and I figured if I'm going to splurge now...I want one of the best pictures for TV and movie watching as well.
Keithian is offline  
post #75 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 06:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Wixom, MI
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Excuse me, but I really don't care what your background is. When you start a response with "The typical American consumer is attracted to bright shiny objects"....that is condescending. When you write about how you can't understand how someone thinks an OLED is more dim and that is 'pure ignorance', that is condescending. So perhaps you should have focused on what you thought might be helpful and less on these types of blanket characterizations being what I wrote was what you were referring to. Regardless, if I take a deep breath as you suggested and strip out those comments, it does give me some good information to ponder as far as settings and sources so I will take that into account when I go back to more stores to do comparisons. Again, I probably shouldn't have used the word "dull" when me and my two other friends were looking at these TVs for the first time. We just were standing in the store looking at the OLEDs and we HONESTLY couldn't not understand why someone would have picked one up at those prices with what we first saw. The fact that the content, lighting, etc may have skewed what we saw doesn't change our first impressions. Anyway, I appreciate the response and I'll research more.


Dude whether you interpreted his first response as being condescending is one thing, but after he further explained himself and it's clear that he wasn't intending to be condescending, why wouldn't you take his word for it? I feel like you need to cool down and realize that you asked for opinions and people are giving them. Not just opinions, but experiences (hence the background he gave of his employment). You're going to get great educated opinions and personal experiences, and you'll get some biased opinions also. We're talking about people here, and we're all here to get educated aren't we? Isn't that why you asked the question?


My opinion, without any insider knowledge, is that most people probably prefer the "pop" of brighter saturated colors. I consider myself one of them.


But my experience is that based on what I saw in a store I ended up going with a Samsung KS8000 because it had that "pop", but once I got it to my place I was pretty disappointed. It could display a great picture, but overall it wasn't what I was expecting when I paid the $1,700 for it. For whatever reason it just didn't seem like it was performing the way it was in the store.


I ended up returning it and getting an Oled and I was extremely satisfied because it performed the way I expected. That being said, our experiences are a little different because when I went to a store I was always in awe of the Oled's, they were just too expensive. Eventually I bit the bullet and I've had no regrets. Too each their own.
jpalermo is offline  
post #76 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyBramble View Post
You know OP, my recommendation is to get a 55 inch OLED and set it up next to your current display. Apply TV settings that other members have posted on here and or use rtings as a start. Compare daytime and nighttime usage of the two displays. If you don't like the OLED, return it in the 30 day window. If you do like it, well you can come to the decision as to how to move forward.

I'm a firm believer in 'beauty in the eye of the beholder'. If you like a desaturated, accurate or saturated picture, more power to you -- settle for what makes you happy. Having said that, as a gamer myself, I really recommend you try the OLED in your environment. I came from a Pioner Kuro and Sony LCD, but the move to OLED was very a big upgrade. Without using too many words, it really felt like I was experiencing games for the first time. So it's definitely worth a try.
Thank you for the rationale and helpful reply. That is something I never considered, so its an option, though I'm not sure what places allow you to return a TV without a restocking fee. Maybe best buy does? Will have to look into it as I agree that nothing is like trying. I recall when I shopped for my Elite TV many years ago, the store I bought it from did have light and dark rooms and they actually did move the TVs around for me. I'm thinking a place like that might be a good start....though finding smaller places like that may not carry these 3 TVs....at least not yet. Will have to look what is around Southern California. I appreciate the comment about gaming from a fellow gamer.
Keithian is offline  
post #77 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalermo View Post
Dude whether you interpreted his first response as being condescending is one thing, but after he further explained himself and it's clear that he wasn't intending to be condescending, why wouldn't you take his word for it? I feel like you need to cool down and realize that you asked for opinions and people are giving them. Not just opinions, but experiences (hence the background he gave of his employment). You're going to get great educated opinions and personal experiences, and you'll get some biased opinions also. We're talking about people here, and we're all here to get educated aren't we? Isn't that why you asked the question?


My opinion, without any insider knowledge, is that most people probably prefer the "pop" of brighter saturated colors. I consider myself one of them.


But my experience is that based on what I saw in a store I ended up going with a Samsung KS8000 because it had that "pop", but once I got it to my place I was pretty disappointed. It could display a great picture, but overall it wasn't what I was expecting when I paid the $1,700 for it. For whatever reason it just didn't seem like it was performing the way it was in the store.


I ended up returning it and getting an Oled and I was extremely satisfied because it performed the way I expected. That being said, our experiences are a little different because when I went to a store I was always in awe of the Oled's, they were just too expensive. Eventually I bit the bullet and I've had no regrets. Too each their own.
I'm not going to apologize for calling someone out on what I consider to be condescending comments. I found them insulting. You may not agree, a few others might not, like you said, to each his own. I would never respond to someone by stereotyping a broad group of people who have differing opinions. As I stated in my 2nd response, when I stripped away those comments, his comments were helpful and I appreciated them. If you, him and a couple of others don't understand why they are condescending, well, I guess we are all raised differently.

Now as far as what you wrote, I appreciate you sharing your experience as someone who experienced something similar to me in the store. I'm not sure how your model compares to the Q9 and whether you would have had the same response, but it reinforces what others have wrote in this thread that I need to make sure before I purchase that I try these options in different lighting, different sources, different settings, even maybe attaching my gaming desktop to see what floats my boat. Again, thanks for the experience.
George Weasley likes this.
Keithian is offline  
post #78 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 06:51 PM
 
Quebecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,490
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Thank you for the rationale and helpful reply. That is something I never considered, so its an option, though I'm not sure what places allow you to return a TV without a restocking fee. Maybe best buy does? Will have to look into it as I agree that nothing is like trying. I recall when I shopped for my Elite TV many years ago, the store I bought it from did have light and dark rooms and they actually did move the TVs around for me. I'm thinking a place like that might be a good start....though finding smaller places like that may not carry these 3 TVs....at least not yet. Will have to look what is around Southern California. I appreciate the comment about gaming from a fellow gamer.
Been gaming for a long long time on monitor, TV, Sony and now OLED and it's clearly the best gaming TV ever. I especially like how clean the image is. Also ultra low response time mean low blur.

Too much brightness in gaming is in no way good. Your eyes will hurt because we're totally focused on the TV during gaming. I game at 50% of total OLED brightness and it's bright enough.
Quebecker is offline  
post #79 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 07:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Wixom, MI
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
I'm not going to apologize for calling someone out on what I consider to be condescending comments. I found them insulting. You may not agree, a few others might not, like you said, to each his own. I would never respond to someone by stereotyping a broad group of people who have differing opinions. As I stated in my 2nd response, when I stripped away those comments, his comments were helpful and I appreciated them. If you, him and a couple of others don't understand why they are condescending, well, I guess we are all raised differently.

Now as far as what you wrote, I appreciate you sharing your experience as someone who experienced something similar to me in the store. I'm not sure how your model compares to the Q9 and whether you would have had the same response, but it reinforces what others have wrote in this thread that I need to make sure before I purchase that I try these options in different lighting, different sources, different settings, even maybe attaching my gaming desktop to see what floats my boat. Again, thanks for the experience.


Yea, the whole condescending argument aside, I don't think the KS8000 is anywhere near the Q9. I think the KS8000 would be described as a Upper Midrange 4k HDR TV that is good value for it's features and picture. But our big difference is that although I am drawn to the saturation and "pop", unlike you who didn't quite see the big deal with Oled, I was drawn to it more so than the KS9800 or Sony 940E. I get a little surprised when people see them and call them dim, but I guess compared to the 2,000 nits that some TV's are pushing out I guess you could say that.


Just FYI, get a Costco membership and buy a TV from there to test out. No restocking fee, and if you end up keeping it you'll get an extra year warranty from Costco on top of the manufacturers 1 year, plus if you pay with a Costco citi credit card you get an extra 2 years, then if you're a member you can also buy the 3 year squaretrade warranty for $89. That's 7 years of protection, nice peace of mind.


If you don't like the TV, return it and the squaretrade and the Costco membership and be completely refunded.
NintendoManiac64 likes this.
jpalermo is offline  
post #80 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 07:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 552
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 333 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
If the shoe fits, wear it. The truth hurts sometimes. Classify that as condescending.

Ignorance is a plenty in this country. Since you apparently don't know the definition of ignorance, it means lacks knowledge. Since I passed first hand knowledge to you and you classified it as condescending.... well.....

If I called you dumb for posting your original post on an Enthusiast site in a forum consisting of OLED owners and "fans", I would agree with you.... but I didn't now did I. 'People are attracted to bright shiny objects'.... I've said that hundreds of times to my clients and not one of them EVER thought it was condescending.

Having said that, I've been on this forum since '04. I've seen many posts like yours over the years. I see where you said you work for a bank, however the style and "technique' of your original post questions that validity. Personally, I think you either work for Samsung or a third party marketing party. I based this on my knowledge of the industry and experience on this board. If that is not the case, you may want to check what you type and where.


I did. You took it personal. Fascinating how humans interpret tone in simplistic black and white texts. Says a lot about one's personality. You can classify that as condescending


You know a store environment skews what you see but it doesn't change your impression?!?!?! ..... hmmmm. I guess what the rest of the world says about we Americans has some validity. I'll slap myself on the hand for another condescending comment
Are u still going to be in boston in the month of may? Looking for calibration for oled e6p .Sent u a pm dont think u read it yet thanks.

greatone99
Dave Scurrah is offline  
post #81 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 07:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 7,042
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2987 Post(s)
Liked: 2826
I was a plasma guy since 2007 ,I tried many LCDs from different brands and models before jumping to Oled. I couldn't live with the backlight issues ,is hard to be happy with LCD If you care about dark scenes ,unless you are willing to give up on dark scenes.

HDR exacerbate blooming and halos.
losservatore is offline  
post #82 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 07:53 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: S.F.
Posts: 1,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Thank you for the advice. As I've stated in a couple of my other replies, yes, I need to do a bit more in person comparisons between the Sony and the Q9 as despite the OLED bias here, the consensus seems to be that Sony is the better buy. Whether that is hate for Samsung or not I have no idea....but in the end...I need to do more research. I may take your advice and wait a bit more for what is down the pipeline with Sony as I didn't know they also had a 77" coming in.
The thing is, Samsung really hasn't made a near-reference set since their last plasma (F8500) and that was a few years ago now. Their LCD division has always been "good" at best, as they've never been able to master a proper FALD implementation on the limited models they have produced over time. In addition, regardless of their backlight choices, their LCD PQ has typically produced garish, oversaturated, digitized (i.e. non-cinematic), and often inaccurate color replication (especially with reds and skin tones). Motion has also been a problem with them, but has somewhat improved recently. These areas are based on owners' experiences, plus measurables/comparisons conducted by past and current professionals. So while critical commenting might be confused by some as "hate", in reality, this is a science forum first and foremost so everything is under the microscope.

I think what bothers people most is that Samsung has long been making sets based on their principle of "form over function" (as evidenced by their design language) for many years now. And as a result, their PQ has continued to suffer in many areas. In itself, that wouldn't be such a big deal as nothing is perfect. However (as others have mentioned), the fact that their LCD division has outspent other TV OEMs many times over, has complicated matters since marketing has the greatest impact on the more casual of consumers. As a result, videophiles have often felt like the priority of improving PQ (for the entire TV industry on a whole) has often taken a back seat across the industry due to Samsung's influence. Also, the fact that Samsung hasn't produced anything emissive since plasma hasn't helped either, as the vast majority of videophiles much prefer emissive tech (CRT, plasma, OLED) to transmissive.

All said, I'm very sure most videophiles would welcome Samsung if they made the concerted effort to put themselves back on the map with an emissive technology - either by joining the OLED movement, or bringing a true emissive QLED product to market. And hopefully that time comes sooner rather than later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
As far as the Elite, my bad...I was confused with what I owned...it is the right model number but if it isn't a Plasma then I believe you lol..further proof that I am not a Samsung specialist as one or two suggested...I'm just someone who was looking for a new TV to upgrade from 1080P to 4K with gaming as one of the reasons and I couldn't understand the pull to pay premium for what I was seeing in the store i went to. Yes, I know it was some type of a join venture and I recall in my first year where even those companies would misdirect me for help with regard to reaching out to technical support before a person finally figured out there was a specific elite phone number...but that was years ago. I love my TV, I just can't put up with the resolution for gaming and I figured if I'm going to splurge now...I want one of the best pictures for TV and movie watching as well.
Yeah, Sharp worked with Pioneer engineers on the Elite LCD. No problem, but yeah, it's helpful to understand what you currently own and thus the type of picture you're currently use to (and maybe ultimately prefer?). In the end, everyone's going to ultimately buy what their eyes tell them, but it doesn't hurt along the way to understand the technical discussions if one's willing to factor-in the proper conditions and scientific results into their next purchasing decision.
losservatore likes this.
paranoyd androyd is offline  
post #83 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 08:00 PM
 
sytech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,567
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2104 Post(s)
Liked: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
D-Nice started off his post with a condescending tone. Keithian called him on it, and he was correct, it was condescending. At no point did Keithian "disrespect" D-Nice - even in spite of the way the post started off, Keithian admitted D-Nice had some good points.

Just because you are a "pro", or know a lot about AV, doesn't give you the right to talk down to people. Especially new forum members. Is that what we're about here?

I've seen this sort of thing several times. It's not the first.
I stay out of all arguments. We people get nasty, I just ignore them. That being said, I know for a fact D-Nice occasionally comes off as combative and has been temporarily banned a few times. I wish we all could get along, but the structure of the threads forces the confrontations.
sytech is offline  
post #84 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 08:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1026 Post(s)
Liked: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
as a gamer the brightness trumps darkness.
Could you elaborate on this comment for me please?

I too am a gamer (among other things), but I'm a complete night-owl to the point of practically being nocturnal (for the sanity of my eyes, I need to use very low screen brightness combined with inverted color schemes with bright text on dark backgrounds). Therefore I'm completely out-of-the-loop when it comes to the needs of daytime gamers and would appreciate the insight.

Last edited by NintendoManiac64; 05-08-2017 at 08:52 PM.
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #85 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoyd androyd View Post
The thing is, Samsung really hasn't made a near-reference set since their last plasma (F8500) and that was a few years ago now. Their LCD division has always been "good" at best, as they've never been able to master a proper FALD implementation on the limited models they have produced over time. In addition, regardless of their backlight choices, their LCD PQ has typically produced garish, oversaturated, digitized (i.e. non-cinematic), and often inaccurate color replication (especially with reds and skin tones). Motion has also been a problem with them, but has somewhat improved recently. These areas are based on owners' experiences, plus measurables/comparisons conducted by past and current professionals. So while critical commenting might be confused by some as "hate", in reality, this is a science forum first and foremost so everything is under the microscope.

I think what bothers people most is that Samsung has long been making sets based on their principle of "form over function" (as evidenced by their design language) for many years now. And as a result, their PQ has continued to suffer in many areas. In itself, that wouldn't be such a big deal as nothing is perfect. However (as others have mentioned), the fact that their LCD division has outspent other TV OEMs many times over, has complicated matters since marketing has the greatest impact on the more casual of consumers. As a result, videophiles have often felt like the priority of improving PQ (for the entire TV industry on a whole) has often taken a back seat across the industry due to Samsung's influence. Also, the fact that Samsung hasn't produced anything emissive since plasma hasn't helped either, as the vast majority of videophiles much prefer emissive tech (CRT, plasma, OLED) to transmissive.

All said, I'm very sure most videophiles would welcome Samsung if they made the concerted effort to put themselves back on the map with an emissive technology - either by joining the OLED movement, or bringing a true emissive QLED product to market. And hopefully that time comes sooner rather than later.



Yeah, Sharp worked with Pioneer engineers on the Elite LCD. No problem, but yeah, it's helpful to understand what you currently own and thus the type of picture you're currently use to (and maybe ultimately prefer?). In the end, everyone's going to ultimately buy what their eyes tell them, but it doesn't hurt along the way to understand the technical discussions if one's willing to factor-in the proper conditions and scientific results into their next purchasing decision.

Thank you. This might be a stupid question, but which TV is closer to my current Elite TV as far as the picture it is trying to produce taking into account their own strengths and weaknesses....the Sony, Q9, or an OLED. I never thought about brightness or deep blacks. I have frequent TV and movie nights at my house and despite how old my TV is, even today people still comment on how good the picture is. Again it just shows how detached I think the average person is from the types of things people here might see or think about. The only thing I find a little annoying sometimes is in the day at one specific angle on the couch i get a big reflection on the TV from the window. Also, I desperately want a higher resolution to support my Nvidia GTX 1080ti graphics card. However, maybe one of those 3 is actually closer to the Elite experience I currently have? Maybe this isn't the right forum to ask this question.
Keithian is offline  
post #86 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Could you elaborate on this comment for me please?

I too am a gamer (among other things), but I'm a complete night-owl to the point of practically being nocturnal (for the sanity of my eyes, I need to use very low screen brightness combined with inverted color schemes with bright text on dark backgrounds). Therefore I'm completely out-of-the-loop when it comes to the needs of daytime gamers and would appreciate the insight.
Hi. Well most of the time I'm gaming in the day or with the lights because when I'm not using my Oculus Rift Virtual Reality Headset where I would turn my lights off, I'm using a full keyboard and mouse to play MMORPGs and RPG games like Elder Scrolls Online or the Witcher 3. Playing these games in the dark without easily seeing the keys can be annoying sometimes, so I tend to prefer some light...not too much...but enough to see the keyboard since I'm 12 feet from the TV. That is also why I don't want anything less than 75". However gaming is about 30% of my time. The other 70% of my time is watching DirectTV, DVR recorded shows, or streaming Netflix/Amazon Prime. About 2-3 times a month I'll watch a long movie from a DVD or from streaming sources where you would rent it. Someone at work wants me to try something called Kodi. I haven't tried that yet. I watch all these things in a variety of lighting situations...day, night, lights on, lights off, lights sometimes dim, sometimes not, with window shades open, window shades closed....there is no consistency. It just depends on the time of day, who is sitting next to me, and my mood.

As I do turn on Blue Light filters on my Chromebook and Android Phone, perhaps it is a legitimate argument that my preference in a full lit store would not be the same in my sometimes much darker room. It is very possible that the same picture I saw at BB that I drooled over would be overwhelming at night before bed where there are studies that show that too much blue light can be bad for your sleep...which is why I use Blue Light Filters which I don't think TVs have yet...at least I don't think so :0)

Last edited by Keithian; 05-08-2017 at 09:27 PM.
Keithian is offline  
post #87 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 09:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1026 Post(s)
Liked: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Playing these games in the dark without easily seeing the keys can be annoying sometimes, so I tend to prefer some light..
Oh, so by "brightness trumps darkness", you meant bright ambient light. That makes sense!

Yeah, most of the time I remap nearly all the keyboard actions so that I can access them without moving my hand unless absolutely necessary - this is crucial for me even during the day because I have small hands (for reference, if I put my thumb on the Z key, then the absolute farthest that my middle finger can reach is the = key, and that's with stretching and having my left hand rotated 90 degrees inward).
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #88 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
I was a plasma guy since 2007 ,I tried many LCDs from different brands and models before jumping to Oled. I couldn't live with the backlight issues ,is hard to be happy with LCD If you care about dark scenes ,unless you are willing to give up on dark scenes.

HDR exacerbate blooming and halos.
Thank you for sharing your experience. As I stated in my OP, I currently have a much older Elite Pro-70. I never noticed the types of things people see here like backlight issues, blooming, halos. I always thought the picture was amazing. Ive had dozens and dozens of people at my house for TV and Movie nights and all of them loved the picture. Maybe I need someone to come to my house and show me what my several year old TV is doing now that would be corrected with these newer models that my eyes aren't trained to see :-)...or maybe the content I'm watching isn't the type of content where I would notice these things on my older TV....who knows. What I do know is that I need to educate myself a bit more and that a bit more patience might be my best friend.
jandjd likes this.
Keithian is offline  
post #89 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Oh, so by "brightness trumps darkness", you meant bright ambient light. That makes sense!

Yeah, most of the time I remap nearly all the keyboard actions so that I can access them without moving my hand unless absolutely necessary - this is crucial for me even during the day because I have small hands (for reference, if I put my thumb on the Z key, then the absolute farthest that my middle finger I can reach is the = key, and that's with stretching and having my left hand rotated 90 degrees inward).
I try to map as many buttons as i can to my gaming mouse so i don't need to look at the keyboard at all times, but in some games, like World of Warcraft for example, I find it is unavoidable :-) However, what I meant in this situation is that I assumed that when gaming if I had to pick between having a brighter screen for gaming versus a darker screen for better blacks for cinema watching with the lights off, I'd chose the brighter screen...but apparently what some folks are telling me is that the lighting conditions in the BB might be completely off from my home experiences and that my opinion might very well change depending on the conditions....which is why I need to go to more stores and test all of this out more in much more realistic settings which are more in line with my living room...as difficult as that sounds lol.
Keithian is offline  
post #90 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalermo View Post
Yea, the whole condescending argument aside, I don't think the KS8000 is anywhere near the Q9. I think the KS8000 would be described as a Upper Midrange 4k HDR TV that is good value for it's features and picture. But our big difference is that although I am drawn to the saturation and "pop", unlike you who didn't quite see the big deal with Oled, I was drawn to it more so than the KS9800 or Sony 940E. I get a little surprised when people see them and call them dim, but I guess compared to the 2,000 nits that some TV's are pushing out I guess you could say that.


Just FYI, get a Costco membership and buy a TV from there to test out. No restocking fee, and if you end up keeping it you'll get an extra year warranty from Costco on top of the manufacturers 1 year, plus if you pay with a Costco citi credit card you get an extra 2 years, then if you're a member you can also buy the 3 year squaretrade warranty for $89. That's 7 years of protection, nice peace of mind.


If you don't like the TV, return it and the squaretrade and the Costco membership and be completely refunded.
Thank you for the Costco advice. Though I don't have one, I have friends that do so I can just go through them. If anything I may take this route just to test an OLED in proper and varied lighting experiences...so I appreciate that. I'm surprised they let people on such expensive devices return them so easily.
Keithian is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off