OLED Overhype? Are these forums only good for the enthusiasts? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Witcher 3.
Oh man -- I am playing through this right now, the expansions to be exact, on my OLED @4k60hz and it's pretty mind-blowing. Definitely try this game out if you decide to test drive the game. Another recommendation, provided you have a PS4, is Horizon Zero Dawn.
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post #92 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:36 PM
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Resident Evil 7 is an awesome HDR presentation as well
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post #93 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:38 PM
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If the gist of the OP's post is that brighter LED TV's look better than OLED TV's to non-enthusiasts regardless of the actual PQ - then yes, there's a lot of truth to that sentiment. In a big, bright show-room, TV's that get brighter look more vibrant and colorful than not-as-bright one's. But once you bring these TV's home, that's when the bright TV's lose their advantage, and then instead of noticing how bright they can get (which you're unlikely to use at max brightness anyways), you will be noticing how blacks don't look as black as they did in the showroom and the contrast doesn't quite have the same "wow-factor" of the OLED.

Really, it comes down to the viewing environment. Ideally you should be watching movies or shows in a room that's not particularly bright, and that's when the OLED shines compared to competitors. But if you don't find yourself fortunate enough to have said viewing environment, brighter LED TVs can certainly look better because it will be quite a bit more difficult to appreciate the primary strength of the OLED.
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post #94 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Thank you for the Costco advice. Though I don't have one, I have friends that do so I can just go through them. If anything I may take this route just to test an OLED in proper and varied lighting experiences...so I appreciate that. I'm surprised they let people on such expensive devices return them so easily.
Yup, Costco is pretty much as good as it gets as far as return policy. And just to reiterate, the membership is refundable at any time. You can be on day 364 of your membership, having bought 10 TV's, and you can go to the store and get your membership fee back.

It's great as long as people don't start taking too much advantage of it. And I think I forgot to mention, you get 90 days for TV returns.
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post #95 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:46 PM
 
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Thank you. This might be a stupid question, but which TV is closer to my current Elite TV as far as the picture it is trying to produce taking into account their own strengths and weaknesses....the Sony, Q9, or an OLED. I never thought about brightness or deep blacks. I have frequent TV and movie nights at my house and despite how old my TV is, even today people still comment on how good the picture is. Again it just shows how detached I think the average person is from the types of things people here might see or think about. The only thing I find a little annoying sometimes is in the day at one specific angle on the couch i get a big reflection on the TV from the window. However, maybe one of those 3 is actually closer to the Elite experience I currently have? Maybe this isn't the right forum to ask this question.
There's some former Elite LCD owners in this forum who've moved onto OLED and are quite satisfied that they did so. There's also plenty of Elite Kuro plasma owners who've done the same.

IMO, what you need to figure out is how much 'perfect' blacks, the resulting 'infinite' contrast levels, and better viewing angles mean to you. Personally, those 3 things mean quite a lot to many of us since they directly translate to significantly better overall PQ, and thus we're willing to pay the premium for such technology. Also, leaving LCD means putting typical problems like blooming, light bleed, and clouding behind us. And that's incredibly valuable for most as well.

With respect to what might closely compare to your Elite LCD, it's probably just easier for me to say that my family prefers using our Elite LCD for sports because it's currently the brightest and largest set we have. However, we much prefer our plasmas for all other content. However, from my observations and many viewings of OLED over the past few years, we're going to be incredibly happy with sports and all content on OLED regardless of the levels of ambient light we might experience. Keep in mind that OLED is already noticeably brighter than plasma ever achieved, so in that area, OLED performs closer to LCD.

Also, to be clear, with respect to brightness - OLED (going forward) is going to be brighter than your Elite LCD. And overall, plenty bright enough IMO. I can't state that enough, since the only thing that a certain segment of LCD owners on this forum seem to talk about anymore (when they make comments about OLEDs they don't own and swear they never will ) is just how 'bright' their LCDs can get.

Another note, OLED motion can be better than LCD motion if one chooses an OLED that doesn't suffer as much from the "sample-and-hold effect". Plasma and CRT, for example, didn't employ sample-and-hold at all.

Generally speaking, plasma will always be known for two things - best viewing angles and best motion. While plasma isn't in the cards for you, it is relevant for comparison sake when understanding the different modern panel technologies. And with respect to the never-ending "OLED vs. LCD" discussion, OLED performs much closer to plasma than LCD in these categories. And again, OLED produces 'perfect' blacks which even 99% of plasmas did not. Whereas LCD is a distant dead last in blacks, contrast levels, viewing angles, and motion when comparing OLED, plasma, and LCD.

In sum, if current "OLED vs. LCD" comparison shoppers are able to view a much larger range of content in the right settings before deciding what to purchase, there's a pretty good chance they'll quickly realize that they'd be missing out on several key areas of PQ which make the viewing experience noticeably more enjoyable.
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post #96 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Thank you for sharing your experience. As I stated in my OP, I currently have a much older Elite Pro-70. I never noticed the types of things people see here like backlight issues, blooming, halos. I always thought the picture was amazing. Ive had dozens and dozens of people at my house for TV and Movie nights and all of them loved the picture. Maybe I need someone to come to my house and show me what my several year old TV is doing now that would be corrected with these newer models that my eyes aren't trained to see :-)...or maybe the content I'm watching isn't the type of content where I would notice these things on my older TV....who knows. What I do know is that I need to educate myself a bit more and that a bit more patience might be my best friend.
Because you are watching standard dynamic range content on the only LCD that has won a TV shootout against plasmas.

This new generation displays are much more brighter and High dynamic range content sets the display to the highest light output making Halos and blooming difficult to hide.


I think that you are going to be disappointed with an edge lit like the Samsung Q ,it will bloom like crazy with HDR.


I only recommend the Samsung Q for bright environments. Just imagine few zones at the side at over 1,000 nits.


The best choices are Oled or Z9. Anything outs won't perform to this level.

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post #97 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 10:58 PM
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I am new here because I haven't shopped for a TV for many years. I loved my Pioneer 70" Pro-70x5fd Elite TV. It had a great picture, great 3D, and just served its purpose. Never any issues other than slow to turn on sometimes with the remote. Anyway, when I bought a Virtual Reality Headset called an Oculus Rift, I moved my gaming desktop from my small office space to my living room. The problem that I have is that my living room couch for flat screen gaming is about 12' from the TV and the 1080P isn't cutting it anymore for my gaming needs. So I started investigating new TV technology via Consumer Reports to learn about OLED versus LED/QLED.

Anyway, I narrowed my choices for 75" or so to the new Sony Z9D, Samsung Q9, and LG G6P. I was shocked by just how high these prices were being my Pioneer at the time was the top of the bunch and I bought it for about 7K. I decided to read tons of thoughts online about all 3 TVs and scanned these forums. The overwhelming consensus was that OLED was the way to go. I would just patiently wait until a major holiday or BLack Friday to make a purchase.

Yesterday, I decided to visit a Best Buy where I could at least look at the 65" version of the Sony and Samsung and compare that against what LG had for OLED in the store. I had two of my friends with me. They don't follow technology at all and none of us heard of terms like Clouding, Gamma, Calibrators or any thing similiar that people would analyze here in these forums. All 3 of us felt the OLEDs all looked dull in that they just weren't bright enough. All 3 of use felt the Samsung and Sony were by far the better options. I know I'll get stones thrown at me, but I was surprised about how stunning the picture of the Samsung Q9 was and in our eyes the Sony was 2nd and only every so slightly less stunning. I tried walking at angles and yes, the OLED maintained the colors great. However, we discussed my couch and room and we were like who gives a crap. Who sits at those extreme angles and who would even care? We generally sit in the middle or a few feet off center. Nothing that would be like OMG, those colors are horrible and this TV is unwatchable. The reality is the brightness and sharpness blew us away. Further research showed me that for gaming and what I learned here about Input Lag (as I am a big gamer) that the Q9 was actually pretty good. I watch movies in dark conditions and light conditions depending on the time of day. I get glare from windows during the day. Maybe OLED would be better for watching in the complete dark...but I find it hard to believe if I'm watching QLED in the complete dark I'll be like...wow, I wish I had better blacks. Average consumers don't think like that. My friends had no idea what I was talking about.

Anyway, once the price drops and unless something convinces me otherwise over the next couple of months of reading, I think I'm leaning toward the Samsung despite the hate here toward that TV. The bright picture for gaming was near the top of my wishlist. After seeing the OLEDs in the store, I honestly don't understand what all the hype is about to the average consumer/non technical and neither did my friends. There is no way I would pay for OLED without them getting the brightness us to where the QLEDs and Sony's TV are with a similar pricing structure, though I think the $10K QLED needs to come down a few thousand as well.
Q9 looks nice at BB, on vivid, in a well lit room. Once the lights go out OLED and FALD rule the day. Why pay 9k for an edge lit? The 75 Z9 has over 800 zones, offers 3D and you can get a good deal @ Cleveland Plasma much better than the Q9. Additionally when is the 75 Q9 shipping, its not even in BB system yet. 77 OLED are pricey.

Spoiler!
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post #98 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 11:19 PM
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Keithian

My polite suggestion is to apologize for your somewhat antagonistic tone, and be willing to recognize that all of us have a lot to learn here if we keep things civil and avoid umbrage

I was an ignoramous when I started here, but with an open and non hostile approach, have been able to educate myself to be able to discourse amiably and knowledgeably.

I mean, after all, you didn't even know what kind of tv you had when you started this post...

Submitted with the best of intentions....
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post #99 of 271 Old 05-08-2017, 11:47 PM
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We bought our OLED last year because it was the prettiest, clearest, brightest of them all in the showroom at BB. Also, the black levels on this set...mind blowing! We had just gotten a Vizio M series (the one that preceded the Chromecast versions) after returning our P Series (because we hated its Chromecast features). A few months later, we had second (third?) thoughts about the PQ and black levels. So after a little soul-searching, we bought an OLED. What a psycho difference. I'm no hardcore video enthusiast; I would happily classify myself as the "every day consumer who's attracted to shiny things," and I only wish our OLED was bigger. I wouldn't trade it in for any of the TV's that released this year (except for maybe the new OLEDs that are Atmos-handy). Every time I go to Costco, I don't even look at the models on display because I am just so slap happy with the current set and I feel educated enough now to know that what I have the pleasure of viewing every day is still one of the best TV's around. Rtings will back me up on that still.

In a foolish attempt to be more AV smart, I bought the Spears and Munsil calibration disk and fumbled my way through the patterns and menus. WAY BETTER presentation now than anything in Vivid mode, even though I'm pretty sure I botched more than half of the tests. I can't even imagine what a pro calibration would yield....

I'm not a gamer by any means. I do enjoy blowing things up after a hard day at work, though. Earlier this evening, there were Unidad helicopters launching missles while chasing my turret-mounted SUV down a cliff side in GR: Wildlands. I think that was the first time since the catacomb scenes in Uncharted 4 that my jaw dropped. I haven't spent time critically analyzing game content on other TV's so this tidbit is probably irrelevant...but it was way fun and I wish I had recorded it for Michael Bay to see. TRANSMORFERS 8 SCENE.

So, I'm happy to be a somewhat ignorant average consumer. I don't have any professional, educated opinions to give you about the Sony, Samsung, or even the rest of LG's sets. I hope you'll pick what you think you'll be happiest with. Afterall, picking out a TV shouldn't result in an aneurysm.

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post #100 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 12:47 AM
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@Keithian - We still have our 70" Sharp Elite as well. Will make this simple for you, as this specific issue has been discussed in numerous recent 75"+ threads.

LCD ratings at 75"+ sizes:

1. 75" Sony Z9D
2. 75" Sony 940E
3. 75" Sony 940D
4. 78" Samsung KS9800
5. 75" Vizio P75 (budget price, but will at least give you black bars and much better blacks than QLED)
6. Samsung QLED (edge-lit)

In short, avoid QLED like the plague since there's already 5 much better FALD LCD options at 75"/78". And the Z9D is by far the best LCD on that list.

However, 77" OLED options aren't as expensive as you think. For example, you can currently get a 77" 2016 LG G6 for $13K if you wanted to save some money and had to buy now. But overall, I would highly recommend waiting for the 2017 77" Sony A1E OLED to hit the shelves in the fall, as it won't be much more than that currently discounted priced 2016 LG G6 model.
3D may be on its way out, but that feature should not be overlooked. The 77" adds a new dimension of immersion, which is magnified by 3D presentations. The G6 is priced even better than it was a few months ago. The only caveat is the near black uniformity, so that is the only reason I would recommend waiting for any 2017 models (and LG is not the garbage heap many try to portray) just to see if LGD has managed to improve on the inverse vignette and vertical banding phenomenon at that size.
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post #101 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 01:27 AM
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Hi. Well most of the time I'm gaming in the day or with the lights because when I'm not using my Oculus Rift Virtual Reality Headset where I would turn my lights off, I'm using a full keyboard and mouse to play MMORPGs and RPG games like Elder Scrolls Online or the Witcher 3. Playing these games in the dark without easily seeing the keys can be annoying sometimes, so I tend to prefer some light...not too much...but enough to see the keyboard since I'm 12 feet from the TV. That is also why I don't want anything less than 75". However gaming is about 30% of my time. The other 70% of my time is watching DirectTV, DVR recorded shows, or streaming Netflix/Amazon Prime. About 2-3 times a month I'll watch a long movie from a DVD or from streaming sources where you would rent it. Someone at work wants me to try something called Kodi. I haven't tried that yet. I watch all these things in a variety of lighting situations...day, night, lights on, lights off, lights sometimes dim, sometimes not, with window shades open, window shades closed....there is no consistency. It just depends on the time of day, who is sitting next to me, and my mood.

As I do turn on Blue Light filters on my Chromebook and Android Phone, perhaps it is a legitimate argument that my preference in a full lit store would not be the same in my sometimes much darker room. It is very possible that the same picture I saw at BB that I drooled over would be overwhelming at night before bed where there are studies that show that too much blue light can be bad for your sleep...which is why I use Blue Light Filters which I don't think TVs have yet...at least I don't think so :0)
This would have been a good way to start the your inquiry as it details your use cases and viewing habits.

Looking at your usage, there isn't much in terms of what people on avs would consider critical viewing such as BluRay. For streaming, regular TV and gaming, I would go with the biggest size in your budget range.

Will you be able to take advantage of Oled in a casual setting watching regular TV or netflix? Sure if you look hard enough but in reality, you'll be fine with a Z9/QLED or even last years LED models. I think the Samsung ones from last year can still be found at a great price and will be 95%+ there for your use cases.

Per your other post about wanting colors that appeal to *you* is another reason to not overly worry about whether TV A is 3% better at it's color coverage than TV B.

You're on a pretty niche site for the most part in that people here was quite anal about pixels! The "Science" in the name of the site alludes to that. It's quite easy to come on a site like this and feel like you're buying the worst TV ever if you don't get one of the highest models ever.
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post #102 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 06:39 AM
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I too use a 1080ti. I have a VIZIO p65 as my monitor. If I was you with your current uses ... (70% cable, streaming, ect. and 30% gaming) I would buy a sony 940e. Rtings has it as a great gaming monitor, excellent up scaling for content below 4k which is very important and great motion handling. All these attributes are very important for gaming. Even if the 77 inch oled was a better set, most people regardless of income level won't spend 20k on a TV without using it for critical viewing in a dark room. BTW, don't dismiss 1080p with the sony, vizio and oled tv's. They all have the option to play at 120fps which cuts lag and motion in half. I do game mostly at night with a mechanical keyboard lit up. I have used several high end Samsung tvs as monitors in the past. The game mode was visually disgusting to look at but was the only option for low lag gaming. This might have changed with the newer Samsungs. I don't know... This is not an issue with the Vizio and I would assume Sony TV. Just something to ponder.
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post #103 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 07:05 AM
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I stay out of all arguments. We people get nasty, I just ignore them. That being said, I know for a fact D-Nice occasionally comes off as combative and has been temporarily banned a few times. I wish we all could get along, but the structure of the threads forces the confrontations.
Very true but my original response had zero malice intentions. Americans are attracted to bright shiny objects. Been there done that myself many times before I educated my self here and on other forums so many years ago. How someone can interpret that as being condescending is perplexing to me.
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post #104 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Thank you. This might be a stupid question, but which TV is closer to my current Elite TV as far as the picture it is trying to produce taking into account their own strengths and weaknesses....the Sony, Q9, or an OLED. I never thought about brightness or deep blacks. I have frequent TV and movie nights at my house and despite how old my TV is, even today people still comment on how good the picture is. Again it just shows how detached I think the average person is from the types of things people here might see or think about. The only thing I find a little annoying sometimes is in the day at one specific angle on the couch i get a big reflection on the TV from the window. However, maybe one of those 3 is actually closer to the Elite experience I currently have? Maybe this isn't the right forum to ask this question.
There's some former Elite LCD owners in this forum who've moved onto OLED and are quite satisfied that they did so. There's also plenty of Elite Kuro plasma owners who've done the same.

IMO, what you need to figure out is how much 'perfect' blacks, the resulting 'infinite' contrast levels, and better viewing angles mean to you. Personally, those 3 things mean quite a lot to many of us since they directly translate to significantly better overall PQ, and thus we're willing to pay the premium for such technology. Also, leaving LCD means putting typical problems like blooming, light bleed, and clouding behind us. And that's incredibly valuable for most as well.

With respect to what might closely compare to your Elite LCD, it's probably just easier for me to say that my family prefers using our Elite LCD for sports because it's currently the brightest and largest set we have. However, we much prefer our plasmas for all other content. However, from my observations and many viewings of OLED over the past few years, we're going to be incredibly happy with sports and all content on OLED regardless of the levels of ambient light we might experience. Keep in mind that OLED is already noticeably brighter than plasma ever achieved, so in that area, OLED performs closer to LCD.

Also, to be clear, with respect to brightness - OLED (going forward) is going to be brighter than your Elite LCD. And overall, plenty bright enough IMO. I can't state that enough, since the only thing that a certain segment of LCD owners on this forum seem to talk about anymore (when they make comments about OLEDs they don't own and swear they never will ) is just how 'bright' their LCDs can get.

Another note, OLED motion can be better than LCD motion if one chooses an OLED that doesn't suffer as much from the "sample-and-hold effect". Plasma and CRT, for example, didn't employ sample-and-hold at all.

Generally speaking, plasma will always be known for two things - best viewing angles and best motion. While plasma isn't in the cards for you, it is relevant for comparison sake when understanding the different modern panel technologies. And with respect to the never-ending "OLED vs. LCD" discussion, OLED performs much closer to plasma than LCD in these categories. And again, OLED produces 'perfect' blacks which even 99% of plasmas did not. Whereas LCD is a distant dead last in blacks, contrast levels, viewing angles, and motion when comparing OLED, plasma, and LCD.

In sum, if current "OLED vs. LCD" comparison shoppers are able to view a much larger range of content in the right settings before deciding what to purchase, there's a pretty good chance they'll quickly realize that they'd be missing out on several key areas of PQ which make the viewing experience noticeably more enjoyable.
Great post and I agree with almost all of it. One caveat: light bleed being totally left behind by going OLED. I've owned (even high end) lcds in the past that had light bleed and although I know it's not the same thing, reverse vignetteing can appear somewhat AKIN to light bleed imo. See the attached. Granted some of this is down to the source (it was a blu Ray of a decently shot movie, assassination of Jessie James--doesn't show the amount of bleed on reference dark material though. HP6 on my B6 looks amazing, even the part in the cave where floating blacks are typically a problem)
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post #105 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 07:29 AM
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Are u still going to be in boston in the month of may? Looking for calibration for oled e6p .Sent u a pm dont think u read it yet thanks.
Yes. I'll look for your PM
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post #106 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 07:31 AM
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Yes. I'll look for your PM
Damn, not sure if I'll have my panel saga over with by the time you come to Boston. If I do, I hope you can squeeze in one more.

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post #107 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 07:53 AM
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Thank you. Your post helps as well. Curious though, at what point do we try to figure out what pricing is laughable if I want a 75" or higher TV? That is what I'm struggling with. I just never thought I would see a 77" TV for $19,999. That is laughable to me. The fact that a Q9 is $10,000 is laughable to me. The only one that is reasonable to some degree is the Sony. That was the point of my thread. To me, to have a list price on something that high that has strengths just like a QLED has strengths and then hype it up the wazoo as if its worth that price is odd to me. I don't understand why they are priced so high when they aren't necessarily 100% better in just about everything, they are just better in different things and worse in a couple of others. If they were $10,000 like the QLED, that would make more sense to me and the hype would be more in line with the price. Anyway, I'm going to more stores with different lighting conditions and who are willing to put their sets side by side so I can figure out is it worth it to wait for the Q9 to drop in price, just grab the Sony, or hold off one more year while gaming at an annoying 1080P until OLEDs at 75" or higher come back to reality with their pricing structure.
The high pricing of the 77" OLED doesn't have much if anything to do with LG thinking that it's twice as good as the competition, and everything to do with the reality of manufacturing costs being high for a relatively new product, and a completely new size. Just like when a 50" plasma cost $25k back in 2002. As they sell more, economy of scale will bring down the price. LCD has been around for a long time so it's natural that they would be cheaper. The fact that OLED has come down in price so quickly at sizes below 77" bodes well.

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post #108 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 08:34 AM
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haven't seen it mentioned yet that both the Z9 and OLED support (or will support) Dolby Vision, while the samsung doesn't (and won't). this is a big advantage, especially if you intend to use the set for PC gaming.
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post #109 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Very true but my original response had zero malice intentions. Americans are attracted to bright shiny objects. Been there done that myself many times before I educated my self here and on other forums so many years ago. How someone can interpret that as being condescending is perplexing to me.
Absolutely yes. Thats why many of us(me) started with LCDs when we dove itno the flat panel market. It didnt take most of us(me) long to switch to plasma and start to appreciate truly GOOD picture quality. Sudenly, those bright and shiny LCDs were just gaudy, washed-out, computer monitors with terrible viewing angles. And bad blacks
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post #110 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 10:34 AM
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Please don't let this thread discourage you from the forum or OLED technology, Keithian.

I can sort of relate to you viewing these TVs in the stores...but I wasn't sure what type of setting you were viewing the OLEDs at your Best Buy. I remember the first time I viewed the LG OLEDs in a nice and cozily lit Magnolia room, without the typical big store ceiling lights -- there was not one other TV that could compete with its picture!

Here are some pictures I took recently when I viewed the LG W7 in my local Best Buy's Magnolia a couple weeks back. They had this front and center near the entrance of the Magnolia section of the Best Buy store, so it was still semi-competing with the store's glaring ceiling lights nearby (which you can see in the glass reflection they use to wall mount it):






Outside the nicely lit Magnolia section, Best Buy stores tend to have these big and glaring ceiling lights, and the OLEDs may look dim next to the LCDs, but people's homes aren't usually that bright.

These are not my pictures, but just giving you an example as to what I mean:






Definitely do take a few more trips and try seeing these OLEDs in different environments (try to find something that best matches your home lighting), and also ask if you can adjust the settings via the remote to see if you can get the picture to your liking (just in case... you never know if a Samsung rep was in there sabotaging all the OLED settings ).

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Originally Posted by JeremyBramble View Post
Oh man -- I am playing through this right now, the expansions to be exact, on my OLED @4k60hz and it's pretty mind-blowing. Definitely try this game out if you decide to test drive the game. Another recommendation, provided you have a PS4, is Horizon Zero Dawn.
We are at the same point, I'm at the expansion as well , well....the 2nd expansion. I've put in over 430 hours lol. Such a fantastic experience. That is why I'm thinking about taking my gaming PC to a store and trying it there, one of the smaller stores that are more likely to want to help me
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post #112 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
We are at the same point, I'm at the expansion as well , well....the 2nd expansion. I've put in over 430 hours lol. Such a fantastic experience. That is why I'm thinking about taking my gaming PC to a store and trying it there, one of the smaller stores that are more likely to want to help me
w3 will look nice but hdr games like horizon, re7, mass effect etc are on another level.
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The high pricing of the 77" OLED doesn't have much if anything to do with LG thinking that it's twice as good as the competition, and everything to do with the reality of manufacturing costs being high for a relatively new product, and a completely new size. Just like when a 50" plasma cost $25k back in 2002. As they sell more, economy of scale will bring down the price. LCD has been around for a long time so it's natural that they would be cheaper. The fact that OLED has come down in price so quickly at sizes below 77" bodes well.
Understood. I guess if I was to splurge into a 77" OLED which is the size I want, I don't want to pay more than 12-13k....and even that is pushing it. I wonder how long I'll have to wait for that while obtaining a stunning picture with a low input lag for gaming. Somebody else here mentioned a 77" Sony OLED that might be in that range. Maybe it's worth waiting for that. I just want something this year.
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post #114 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 11:48 AM
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In the best buy I was able to connect with all 3 reps. What was frustrating was that I couldn't see them all side by side. I would have loved to have seen the Sony next to the Samsung. We were just not drooling in the same way over the OLEDs that technical folks and forum fanatics seem be doing around here. What I do agree with in a couple of these posts some of which are highly biased and obviously not thinking outside the box is that conditions in the store vary and content and settings do too....so what I will do is go visit a few other places in all types of conditions/variables to ensure that one best buy is overwhelming my decision. Yes, the OLED was super sharp and the picture was so very clear....but the brightness of the Sony and Samsung in our eyes...well...there was just no comparison and as a gamer the brightness trumps darkness.
I game as well, and am unable to use an LCD for pc gaming at high refresh rates. The Z9D has a response time of 30ms (not input lag, which is different). I can't speak for the Samsung, but I guarantee the OLED is lowest. Gaming at 60fps is a blurry mess on most LCDs, especially if you are used to a plasma. LCD cannot handle motion the same way as an OLED without all the postprocessing tricks you will turn off in game mode. I know this, because I was so excited I could spit when my KS8000 arrived last year, and I immediately packed it up for return after trying a few high framerate pc games. I bit the bullet and went with OLED. Not the same as plasma, but way better than LCD for motion handling.

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post #115 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by George Weasley View Post
haven't seen it mentioned yet that both the Z9 and OLED support (or will support) Dolby Vision, while the samsung doesn't (and won't). this is a big advantage, especially if you intend to use the set for PC gaming.
This little point was actually very helpful. I'm as picky about playing games at the highest settings as people here are with there television settings....which is why I MUST upgrade my TV since it's 1080p and I'm now forced to game in my living room due to the Virtual Reality. If Dolby Vision is will make my games RPG games shine for more realism, then you are correct , I must future proof for this. That would eliminate the QLED.
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post #116 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Very true but my original response had zero malice intentions. Americans are attracted to bright shiny objects. Been there done that myself many times before I educated my self here and on other forums so many years ago. How someone can interpret that as being condescending is perplexing to me.
Look, I don't want to divert attention from my thread to a back and forth with you and me. I wasn't the only one that took it that way so perhaps even if you didn't mean it that way it is possible that not everyone receives information in the manner you intend to send it. I also pointed out the pure ignorance comment you made when most likely typing that to my initial 'dull' comment when i was in the BB. Your comment felt like a slap. Also.I have god knows how many friends and family that are not at all into shiny new objects. I also have very poor friends who don't have the benefit of my salary who couldn't care less about shiny new objects...which is why I treat them to as many things as I can. I always think it is a bad idea to stereotype a population when we are so diverse. The comment felt like here's another ignorant American ignoring reality because he is into shiny new toys when that had nothing to do with my reaction in the store.

It's obvious from your responses that you didn't mean to be condensending even though I could read those two comments 1000 times and they sound condensing. With that said, I apologize if I overreacted and I appreciate the feedback you gave.

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I too use a 1080ti. I have a VIZIO p65 as my monitor. If I was you with your current uses ... (70% cable, streaming, ect. and 30% gaming) I would buy a sony 940e. Rtings has it as a great gaming monitor, excellent up scaling for content below 4k which is very important and great motion handling. All these attributes are very important for gaming. Even if the 77 inch oled was a better set, most people regardless of income level won't spend 20k on a TV without using it for critical viewing in a dark room. BTW, don't dismiss 1080p with the sony, vizio and oled tv's. They all have the option to play at 120fps which cuts lag and motion in half. I do game mostly at night with a mechanical keyboard lit up. I have used several high end Samsung tvs as monitors in the past. The game mode was visually disgusting to look at but was the only option for low lag gaming. This might have changed with the newer Samsungs. I don't know... This is not an issue with the Vizio and I would assume Sony TV. Just something to ponder.
Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, there is no way I could go back to 1080p at 75" and above even if there was 0 input lag. People here are saying the Sony and OLEDs have good input lag and reponse times so I need to get to those numbers. Since I don't play action FPS games, I'd be fine in the range of about 15ms-30ish response times.
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post #118 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, there is no way I could go back to 1080p at 75" and above even if there was 0 input lag. People here are saying the Sony and OLEDs have good input lag and reponse times so I need to get to those numbers. Since I don't play action FPS games, I'd be fine in the range of about 15ms-30ish response times.
Here you go:
http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/a1e

The LG C7 Video review is up too. Apparently the new C7 can to 1080p at 120Hz, and has a 21 ms input lag.


OLED is a game changer.

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post #119 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 12:22 PM
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Understood. I guess if I was to splurge into a 77" OLED which is the size I want, I don't want to pay more than 12-13k....and even that is pushing it. I wonder how long I'll have to wait for that while obtaining a stunning picture with a low input lag for gaming. Somebody else here mentioned a 77" Sony OLED that might be in that range. Maybe it's worth waiting for that. I just want something this year.
You would be better off waiting, period, regardless of the Sony 77" OLED, or not.

It seems gaming is a huge part of what the TV will be displaying. You should probably wait for a 2018 set that has HDMI 2.1, so you can take advantage of variable refresh rates (gsync and freesync) as well as 4K 120hz.

There are other benefits of HDMI 2.1 as well, but these are more gamer focused.

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post #120 of 271 Old 05-09-2017, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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There's some former Elite LCD owners in this forum who've moved onto OLED and are quite satisfied that they did so. There's also plenty of Elite Kuro plasma owners who've done the same.

IMO, what you need to figure out is how much 'perfect' blacks, the resulting 'infinite' contrast levels, and better viewing angles mean to you. Personally, those 3 things mean quite a lot to many of us since they directly translate to significantly better overall PQ, and thus we're willing to pay the premium for such technology. Also, leaving LCD means putting typical problems like blooming, light bleed, and clouding behind us. And that's incredibly valuable for most as well.

With respect to what might closely compare to your Elite LCD, it's probably just easier for me to say that my family prefers using our Elite LCD for sports because it's currently the brightest and largest set we have. However, we much prefer our plasmas for all other content. However, from my observations and many viewings of OLED over the past few years, we're going to be incredibly happy with sports and all content on OLED regardless of the levels of ambient light we might experience. Keep in mind that OLED is already noticeably brighter than plasma ever achieved, so in that area, OLED performs closer to LCD.

Also, to be clear, with respect to brightness - OLED (going forward) is going to be brighter than your Elite LCD. And overall, plenty bright enough IMO. I can't state that enough, since the only thing that a certain segment of LCD owners on this forum seem to talk about anymore (when they make comments about OLEDs they don't own and swear they never will ) is just how 'bright' their LCDs can get.

Another note, OLED motion can be better than LCD motion if one chooses an OLED that doesn't suffer as much from the "sample-and-hold effect". Plasma and CRT, for example, didn't employ sample-and-hold at all.

Generally speaking, plasma will always be known for two things - best viewing angles and best motion. While plasma isn't in the cards for you, it is relevant for comparison sake when understanding the different modern panel technologies. And with respect to the never-ending "OLED vs. LCD" discussion, OLED performs much closer to plasma than LCD in these categories. And again, OLED produces 'perfect' blacks which even 99% of plasmas did not. Whereas LCD is a distant dead last in blacks, contrast levels, viewing angles, and motion when comparing OLED, plasma, and LCD.

In sum, if current "OLED vs. LCD" comparison shoppers are able to view a much larger range of content in the right settings before deciding what to purchase, there's a pretty good chance they'll quickly realize that they'd be missing out on several key areas of PQ which make the viewing experience noticeably more enjoyable.
Thank you for that very detailed and thoughtful response . To be honest, I have no idea how much black levels and contrast are important to me because I don't have enough personal experience in different conditions to form a judgement. I only have my Elite TV and one stop at a Best Buy which apparently suckered me into drawing conclusions prematurely lol. I do feel that for viewing angle, that is not critical to me. 99% of the time, I am either directly in front of the TV or only about 2-4 feet over in either direction. What I want is good gaming response times, a stunning picture in all lighting conditions, maybe a little less glare then my Elite had, 75" or greater, and a price of under 13k... and as you alluded to I need to do more research in a variety of conditions and settings to figure out what that means to me. Thanks again.
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