Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra HD Owners Only Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 120 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3571 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
If a receiver like my marantz 8802a is just serving as an hdmi pass through why would it need to have an update firmware to support this Dolby vision?

Also how is the LG able to get this Dolby vision information from the oppo over existing hdmi structure?
HDMI < 2.1 cannot pass dynamic metadata. Therefore, your AV receiver would not be able to pass independent dynamic metadata unless it adds this feature to its HDMI 2.0 ports. It is able to pass DV in its current state because the dynamic metadata is embedded in the video signal.

Dolby currently embeds the dynamic metadata in the video signal. Until now, that has been the only way to pass dynamic data over HDMI. LG then extracts the this metadata frame-by-frame before mapping it to the display. This is the step Sony is omitting, which is why DV over HDMI on Sony does not work for now. It will only work after source vendors send the dynamic metadata freely over HDMI. This became possible with HDMI 2.1 specs.
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post #3572 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by robert9674 View Post
So Sony promised DV support Jan 2017. They on purpose don’t release it until after CES 2018 is over to avoid the inevitable questions of why lie to us about how A1E and X1 extreme can’t handle DV. Another thing is why do they cheap out on their hardware. Only two HDMI ports on the A1E support hdr10 60 FPS. The mediatek chip in the tv is waaaaay underpowered. It’s like they said how can we screw the customers of this TV. I suggest we boycotting Sony TVs. I’m selling myself


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post #3573 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Baby Jocko View Post
Nothing really new here. John is essentially confirming what we already know.

I still say Sony pushed the update out just to meet their committed promise of mid-January release. Their promise did not specify totality. Partial DV satisifed their promise, which keeps them clear of any lawsuits.

I also still say that this whole thing is due to Sony's apparent inability to extract the embedded dynamic metadata from the HDMI video signal. I'm certain that the Low Latency profile has been planned by Dolby all along as it is the most efficient way to handle DV over HDMI. But, Dolby could not implement this until HDMI 2.1 specs became official. THAT is likely the reason why it has taken Sony this long to deliver DV.

Where the ball was dropped is the source vendors not being onboard at the time Sony delivered their DV update with the new Low Latency profile. Dolby should have worked with the source vendors to make sure this was in place and ready to go. However, I figure the problem was (and is) developing a hybrid solution -- one that both delivers DV dynamic metadata independently, which the Low Latency profile can access, and simultaneously continue to embed the metadata in the video signal so that existing displays can still process. Otherwise, if the source vendors free the metadata, then that would break DV on LG TVs unless LG was ready to upgrade to the Low Latency profile at the exact same time as Sony (a collaborative effort that likely would not happen).

So, as has been said many times, it'll likely be a few months before the source vendors catch up. The only problem I see going forward would be with AV receivers. In order to pass independent dynamic metadata, they too would have to update their firmware to support this HDMI 2.1 feature -- if they can.
Nothing new other than official statements, however it confirms Dolby won't own up to this mess by basically not commenting. And the thing is at this point we have to feel that yes the X1E cannot handle Dolby Vision on its own, but who cares. We know this to be the case but that isn't Sony's fault. Sony built a TV and originally had no plans for Dolby Vision support, it was never announced with the ZD9 and most likely because it never would have worked. But my guess is and I could be wrong but Dolby saw and opportunity and money and offered up a solution and Sony bit. This is all Dolby's issue and I blame them for not communicating, sure Sony could have tested a player and sure Sony could have put in a separate DV chip but they didn't but they also weren't the ones that said DV could work on the X1E Dolby did. Sorry but I want to see what Dolby has to say, they need to do some damage control or in my opinion DV is going to fail. Because this won't be the first and last time this happens if Dolby isn't willing to listen.

On a side not I think the way of doing this is awesome and great, I think having the workload offloaded isn't a bad idea. Think it could work especially with awesome machines like the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X but it should have been relayed to the third party companies that this was coming. Oh well back to enjoying my awesome set that will eventually have Dolby Vision, still love Sony and think they make a great product and I've yet to be disappointed with with my A1E.
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post #3574 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 12:38 PM
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I also think the format will be better after all of this, or for it, but I am going back to not caring about DV. I really spent 2017 just enjoying HDR10. I'll have an X700 today, and just gonna move on until something changes...

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post #3575 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 01:33 PM
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And as I said that, the new ATV4K 11.3 beta seems to have DV working via HDMI input on the Sonys... I can't check until I get home, someone can confirm?


Edit: out on developer beta right now, not public beta yet.
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post #3576 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 01:44 PM
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After the update my TV will not display HDR in some movies, I have the Enhanced HDR turned on for HDMI 2/3 and my ATV4K is putting out HDR @ 60Hz with 4:2:2 chroma on. I'm using 8ft Audio Quest SKY cables and latest software for both the TV and ATV. Any suggestions?

This is a GIF, unfortunately this form doesn't support them.


Direct link to whats happening.
https://imgur.com/ayQFUVK

More details as to what is happening:
Newest Blade Runner movie
ATV Menu screen is HDR
Movie menu screen is HDR
I select play and the screen flashes bright green
HDR banner goes away and movie plays
I exit the movie
Screen flashes bright green
HDR comes back on movie menu screen

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post #3577 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Jocko View Post
HDMI < 2.1 cannot pass dynamic metadata. Therefore, your AV receiver would not be able to pass independent dynamic metadata unless it adds this feature to its HDMI 2.0 ports. It is able to pass DV in its current state because the dynamic metadata is embedded in the video signal.

Dolby currently embeds the dynamic metadata in the video signal. Until now, that has been the only way to pass dynamic data over HDMI. LG then extracts the this metadata frame-by-frame before mapping it to the display. This is the step Sony is omitting, which is why DV over HDMI on Sony does not work for now. It will only work after source vendors send the dynamic metadata freely over HDMI. This became possible with HDMI 2.1 specs.
So here is the Big question. Once Oppo, for example, starts sending the new DV profile, with the current version of AVRs that currently pass DV, will they be able to pass the new DV profile data?

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post #3578 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Jocko View Post
HDMI < 2.1 cannot pass dynamic metadata. Therefore, your AV receiver would not be able to pass independent dynamic metadata unless it adds this feature to its HDMI 2.0 ports. It is able to pass DV in its current state because the dynamic metadata is embedded in the video signal.

Dolby currently embeds the dynamic metadata in the video signal. Until now, that has been the only way to pass dynamic data over HDMI. LG then extracts the this metadata frame-by-frame before mapping it to the display. This is the step Sony is omitting, which is why DV over HDMI on Sony does not work for now. It will only work after source vendors send the dynamic metadata freely over HDMI. This became possible with HDMI 2.1 specs.
Unless I'm reading your post wrong, you're saying dynamic metadata only works with HDMI 2.1? That's not true.

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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So here is the Big question. Once Oppo, for example, starts sending the new DV profile, with the current version of AVRs that currently pass DV, will they be able to pass the new DV profile data?
I don't see why it wouldn't be compatible, the receivers aren't decoding anything they're simply passing the data through. Like anything, though, I'm sure we won't really know until we can test.

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post #3579 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris-Tish View Post
After the update my TV will not display HDR in some movies, I have the Enhanced HDR turned on for HDMI 2/3 and my ATV4K is putting out HDR @ 60Hz with 4:2:2 chroma on. I'm using 8ft Audio Quest SKY cables and latest software for both the TV and ATV. Any suggestions?

This is a GIF, unfortunately this form doesn't support them.


Direct link to whats happening.
https://imgur.com/ayQFUVK

More details as to what is happening:
Newest Blade Runner movie
ATV Menu screen is HDR
Movie menu screen is HDR
I select play and the screen flashes bright green
HDR banner goes away and movie plays
I exit the movie
Screen flashes bright green
HDR comes back on movie menu screen
I did not have this issue with blade runner via the atv. Does the preview display hdr?

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post #3580 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So here is the Big question. Once Oppo, for example, starts sending the new DV profile, with the current version of AVRs that currently pass DV, will they be able to pass the new DV profile data?
Unless your AVR updates its firmware to enable dynamic metadata over HDMI, the only way I see it passing dynamic metadata over HDMI would be the current way: embedded in the video signal. But, it is evident that Sony is not extracting embedded metadata. So, it would seem to reason that if you have an AVR between your A1E and a source device after that device has updated to pass dynamic metadata, then you still won't get DV over HDMI on your A1E unless that AVR also updates.

That's the way I see it. I could be wrong, but based on my knowledge of HDMI and DV, that's the way it is.

You may want to contact Marantz to see what their plans are with DV updates regarding this issue.
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post #3581 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
I did not have this issue with blade runner via the atv. Does the preview display hdr?
The Preview also disables HDR with Match Content turned ON.

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post #3582 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris-Tish View Post
After the update my TV will not display HDR in some movies, I have the Enhanced HDR turned on for HDMI 2/3 and my ATV4K is putting out HDR @ 60Hz with 4:2:2 chroma on. I'm using 8ft Audio Quest SKY cables and latest software for both the TV and ATV. Any suggestions?

This is a GIF, unfortunately this form doesn't support them.


Direct link to whats happening.
https://imgur.com/ayQFUVK

More details as to what is happening:
Newest Blade Runner movie
ATV Menu screen is HDR
Movie menu screen is HDR
I select play and the screen flashes bright green
HDR banner goes away and movie plays
I exit the movie
Screen flashes bright green
HDR comes back on movie menu screen
I cannot play HDR versions on these movies on iTunes HDR:
Blade Runner 2049
Maze Runner
The Dark Knight

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post #3583 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:01 PM
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Relax people...a half baked version of Dolby Vision is better than no version at all. And, based on what I’m seeing with Netflix DV, it’s a significant step up from HDR10. Both Sony and Dolby share equal blame if you ask me, but I’m still confident they’ll get it all sorted out sooner than later.

My only concern going forward is whether or not my Denon 4300H HDMI passthrough will be compatible with this new version of DV.
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post #3584 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:04 PM
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So Apple updated the Dolby vision Profile that was fast?
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post #3585 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
So Apple updated the Dolby vision Profile that was fast?
Public beta should be out in a day or two - will let you know then. Maybe if someone has the developer beta they can check?
I would be careful with the beta though - I've found that they really can be unstable at times and I've had to unplug the ATV a few times to get a signal back.

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post #3586 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:16 PM
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I just hope it maps over from Cinema Pro SDR, like Cinema Pro HDR.

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post #3587 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I just hope it maps over from Cinema Pro SDR, like Cinema Pro HDR.
That was confirmed already that it does.

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post #3588 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
So Apple updated the Dolby vision Profile that was fast?
Yep. But, I'm sure Apple's team of developers is twice as large as all other vendors put together.

It's developer beta right now. So, don't quite start .... just yet.

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post #3589 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by aaz View Post
That was confirmed already that it does.
until someone can connect a signal generator to an hdmi input, on a calibrated Sony, and then check DV patterns with a meter, we won't know anything.

Right now, it is easy. You calibrate Cinema Pro SDR white balance, and when it goes into Cinema Pro HDR, it maps over. Nothing is certain with DV at this point.

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post #3590 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaz View Post
That was confirmed already that it does.
until someone can connect a signal generator to an hdmi input, on a calibrated Sony, and then check DV patterns with a meter, we won't know anything.

Right now, it is easy. You calibrate Cinema Pro SDR white balance, and when it goes into Cinema Pro HDR, it maps over. Nothing is certain with DV at this point.
Actually Sony conformed this and I don?t see why it wouldn?t work this way. With my semi-magic eyes, everything looks correct using one of the calibrated expert color modes but you are correct we will have to take a scan to actually see.

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post #3591 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Baby Jocko View Post
Yep. But, I'm sure Apple's team of developers is twice as large as all other vendors put together.

It's developer beta right now. So, don't quite start .... just yet.
Besides, they have the most to gain with all that DV content they have. We should have seen this coming based on that alone.

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post #3592 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:35 PM
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^^^
I don't use a white point correction on my sets. That's a personal choice option because everyone see's slightly differently, especially when you get older . But i profile my meter to every panel because there are slight variances. I also leave XDR to Max and just adjust the brightness to the luminance level i need. Overall, i usually find that setting the black level to 51 slightly improves near black detail.
Thanks for the feedback John.

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post #3593 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:38 PM
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Actually Sony conformed this and I don?t see why it wouldn?t work this way. With my semi-magic eyes, everything looks correct using one of the calibrated expert color modes but you are correct we will have to take a scan to actually see.

I am watching stranger things right now on the internal app, in DV mode. I mean it does look good, but I have seen things look good but not be as accurate as they should be too lol.

But what is cool, I do notice the gains and bias are available to adjust. I just wonder if it is mapping over white balance from SDR, or they opened it up for you to cal.

I always thought the LG looked good streaming DV from the internal app, but you proved it wasnt as accurate as it could be after cal

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post #3594 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 04:42 PM
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Public beta should be out in a day or two - will let you know then. Maybe if someone has the developer beta they can check?
I would be careful with the beta though - I've found that they really can be unstable at times and I've had to unplug the ATV a few times to get a signal back.
You guys might want to check the Z9D thread.

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Just return the POS Sony. We get it, you are upset. We really need to move on from this. DV will come.
I sure don't need DV.

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post #3596 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 05:00 PM
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DV is in the 11.3 for ATV4K update...relax...breathe...move on to eARC complaining


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post #3597 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 05:59 PM
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Installing the beta now. I will report back any issues.

Dan

Equipment:
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post #3598 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 06:05 PM
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Installing the beta now. I will report back any issues.

Dan
Try to see if it also resolves the raised black level issue. The best way to detect it may be with a letterbox movie and a bright outdoor scene. The black bars should remain absolutely black.

I am betting passing the metadata independent from the video signal will also resolve the raised black issue.

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post #3599 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 06:08 PM
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Installing the beta now. I will report back any issues.

Dan




Please check for Floating black bars and if the default Dolby Vision settings for HDMI are the same as for the internal apps....Like the colortemp and motion settings...thanks

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post #3600 of 7668 Old 01-24-2018, 06:28 PM
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Please check for Floating black bars and if the default Dolby Vision settings for HDMI are the same as for the internal apps....Like the colortemp and motion settings...thanks
The color temp was expert1 and motion Standard.

I am going to leave it like that for now and see what I think.

Dan
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