Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra HD Owners Only Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 160 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4771 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 09:59 AM
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What's the issue with oppo 4:4:4 and the a1e?

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post #4772 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
Dinosaurland? Read the article you linked us to, "but since no one actually has the equipment to receive the channel at home..."
Ya, networks will not even broadcast in 4K in most cases, let alone 8K......Superbowl as not even 4K from what I saw. Olympics where though
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post #4773 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
What's the issue with oppo 4:4:4 and the a1e?
Do not use 4:4:4 on the OPPO. It has a chroma bug, just like previous models. You should not be using that anyway since dvd/bd/uhd is encoded at 4:2:0. You want to be as close to that as possible, in most cases, which means the correct setting should be 4:2:2.
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post #4774 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
What's the issue with oppo 4:4:4 and the a1e?
Do not use 4:4:4 on the OPPO. It has a chroma bug, just like previous models. You should not be using that anyway since dvd/bd/uhd is encoded at 4:2:0. You want to be as close to that as possible, in most cases, which means the correct setting should be 4:2:2.
Thanks -- what's China bug and when are you in Chicago?

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post #4775 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 11:38 AM
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If you look at Chroma test patterns with a test disc at 444 and 422 on a 203, and then on a Panny, you will see...

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post #4776 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 11:44 AM
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Note the first image looks consistent:


Note the second image, far right 2nd square down, is darkened. Oppo 203 will be darker on 444, and rproper on 422, my UB900 and UB200 Panny's look like the first image with 422 or 444



Its a fine chroma thing

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post #4777 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 11:46 AM
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Thanks -- what's China bug and when are you in Chicago?
When it warms up.... lol
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post #4778 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 11:55 AM
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Unhappy

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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
Did you try with the officially supported browser? That is VEWD (formerly known as Opera) in the app store?
Yes I did and unfortunately we discovered that Sony OS does NOT support "flash". www.MotoGP.com uses Flash for video streaming/playback and after several attempts at trying to install the "flash" component and failing ... then reading online that Sony doesn't support "flash" we ultimately gave up and back to using a Media PC and HDMI inputs to TV.

www.MotoGP.com has an HTML5 player but that doesn't seem to work either under VEWD or Chrome.

Cheers, Rob.
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post #4779 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
Thanks -- what's China bug and when are you in Chicago?
When it warms up.... lol

Sounds good ; what's the China bug

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post #4780 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 01:42 PM
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Is Color Temperature set to Expert1? Because there was a bug (or it was intentional for some strange reason) that set it to other setting (Neutral) during update.
Also default Dolby Vision profile has Smooth Gradation set to off, I immediately switched it to Low.
It was on Neutral. Expert 1 almost strikes me as too yellow, though. Will look at it closer tonight when I have more time.

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post #4781 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 03:39 PM
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Sounds good ; what's the China bug
That was a typo (iOS sucks ass). It should be chroma bug.....which I corrected.
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post #4782 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 04:15 PM
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I’ve never seen this on any of my A1Es. Please list all settings you are using when this happens.
It only started happening to me and a few unlucky others when we downloaded the dolby vision update in mid/late January. Prior to that I never had any issues. It happens to my set no matter what combination of settings are used. I have noticed it dimming even with BFI engaged which is unusual since BFI by nature already lowers light output by being engaged.

For SDR material I stick to the default cinema pro settings for the most part. The only settings I change are gamma to -1, peak luminance to high, motion flow off, and cinemotion medium.

For HDR the only change I make from SDR is to set gamma to 0.

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post #4783 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by statealum View Post
It only started happening to me and a few unlucky others when we downloaded the dolby vision update in mid/late January. Prior to that I never had any issues. It happens to my set no matter what combination of settings are used. I have noticed it dimming even with BFI engaged which is unusual since BFI by nature already lowers light output by being engaged.

For SDR material I stick to the default cinema pro settings for the most part. The only settings I change are gamma to -1, peak luminance to high, motion flow off, and cinemotion medium.

For HDR the only change I make from SDR is to set gamma to 0.
Are you sure the Light sensor and/or Power Saving settings are turned off? Have you tried resetting the TV?
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post #4784 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 05:01 PM
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Are you sure the Light sensor and/or Power Saving settings are turned off? Have you tried resetting the TV?
Yes I have tried all of that. The light sensor is not engaged and neither is the Eco settings. As far as resetting the tv I have did that in the following ways:

-Holding the power button on the remote until it resets

-Going into the menu and choosing factory data reset

-Engaging the forced reset by unplugging the tv, holding the power button and -volume button on the back of the tv while it's unplugged, and then plugging it back up and releasing the power and volume button.

-Unplugging the tv and then plugging it back up

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post #4785 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 05:26 PM
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I have been experiencing this dimming brightness issue that has been mentioned in this thread. This is on a 65A1E.

I mostly game on a ps4 pro and the HDR picture will look really good when first starting out, nice and bright, then in about 1 minute the screen will start to dim out over the next 5 seconds and remain dim until there is a complete change on the screen. Its like eco mode is being flipped on or extended dynamic range is being set to low or off. If you actually set XDR to low or off the picture looks just as dim as when this issue occurs. If you set extended dynamic range to low or off the picture does not seem to dim in either SDR or HDR modes. If you lower the contrast to 50 or below it doesn't seem to occur. But with the contrast or XDR so low the picture is already dim. This is also happening in SDR mode but to a lesser extent. Enabling BFI also displays this issue.

Eco mode is disabled. I've toggled the pixel shifter on and off and that does not affect it. The light sensor for brightness is disabled. Adv Contrast Enhancer is off. It's really noticeable when playing games on a ps4 pro in HDR. I've also noticed it start to dim out during HDR and DV content on the Netflix built in app but with this it seems to take a bit longer and it's more random to start dimming compared to gaming. This happens in the standard/custom/cinema pro/game picture modes, I have not tested all the other modes. I manually installed the 3.20.18 dated firmware the other day and then did a factory reset. Issues is still occurring.

When playing a HDR game like ESO and running a dungeon by the time you get done with the first boss the screen will be noticable dim. If you hit the home button on the ps controller in about 10 seconds the brightness is restored. You go back into the game, brightness is restored and it looks great again. Till it starts to get dim again in about 1 minute. You can also hit the the home button on the tvs remote, scroll around, and the brightness will come back in about 10 seconds to. If you do not intervene eventually the brightness will restore but it seems to take a complete change in what is on the screen in order to trigger it restore the original brightness. Like pulling up the map in a game, or changing areas. Then it will start to dim out again over the next minute.

I've noticed it in Farcry 5. You'll be running around playing the game and then all of the sudden you notice the picture is really dim. Almost like a cloud is covering the sun but its not. I've seen this same issue in Monster Hunter World, No Ni Kuni 2 and many other HDR titles. In MHW if your out in the field on a hunt you will notice that the everything gets much dimmer all the sudden. At the Ni No Kuni 2 title screen, which is a scrolling animated background, in about 1 minute the picture will become dim. In Gran Turismo Sport about halfway through a race the brightness is noticeably dim. It's almost as if the HDR part of the content is being removed. The image presented during this dimming doesn't look like a HDR picture.

I have friends that have various models of the LG oled and they are not seeing what I am describing when co-op gaming with them. I tested this on a regular PS4 and get the same issue. I am also seeing this happen with a Nintendo switch on another HDMI input.

This brightness fluctuation while viewing the A1E is highly annoying, immersion breaking and very noticeable to even a untrained eye.

Could this be some sort of Automatic Static Brightness Limiter kicking in? I dont think its the typical Automatic Brightness Limiter kicking in as its a gradual reduction in brightness after X amount of time and not an immediate change. I read that the LGs have a “TPC” setting that can be disabled in the service menu. I have seen no mention of toggling this type of function on a Sony. Is there something similar in the Sony service menu? Any other ideas as to what is going on?

Current Settings:
Custom/Game/Standard Picture Mode - HDR and SDR
Auto picture mode - off
Light sensor - off
Brightness - max
Contrast - 90
Gamma - 0
Black Level - 50
Black Adjust - off
Adv contrast enhancer - off
Peak lumiance - high
Color - 50
Hue - 0
Color temperature - expert 1
Adv color temperature - defaults
Live Color - off
Sharpness - 50
Reality Creation - off
Smooth gradation - low
Motionflow - off
Video options - all set to auto
Eco mode - off
Pixel shifter - on
Screen saver set to 15 minutes on tv and ps4
Advanced HDMI enabled for ports 2 and 3

Display options are all set to auto on the ps4.

I've attached some photos that kinda illustrate what I'm seeing. Its not as obvious in the pictures as it is in person but you can defiantly see the difference in brightness between the two pictures.
Attached Thumbnails
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ID:	2381984  
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post #4786 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killoren View Post
I have been experiencing this dimming brightness issue that has been mentioned in this thread. This is on a 65A1E.

I mostly game on a ps4 pro and the HDR picture will look really good when first starting out, nice and bright, then in about 1 minute the screen will start to dim out over the next 5 seconds and remain dim until there is a complete change on the screen. Its like eco mode is being flipped on or extended dynamic range is being set to low or off. If you actually set XDR to low or off the picture looks just as dim as when this issue occurs. If you set extended dynamic range to low or off the picture does not seem to dim in either SDR or HDR modes. If you lower the contrast to 50 or below it doesn't seem to occur. But with the contrast or XDR so low the picture is already dim. This is also happening in SDR mode but to a lesser extent. Enabling BFI also displays this issue.

Eco mode is disabled. I've toggled the pixel shifter on and off and that does not affect it. The light sensor for brightness is disabled. Adv Contrast Enhancer is off. It's really noticeable when playing games on a ps4 pro in HDR. I've also noticed it start to dim out during HDR and DV content on the Netflix built in app but with this it seems to take a bit longer and it's more random to start dimming compared to gaming. This happens in the standard/custom/cinema pro/game picture modes, I have not tested all the other modes. I manually installed the 3.20.18 dated firmware the other day and then did a factory reset. Issues is still occurring.

When playing a HDR game like ESO and running a dungeon by the time you get done with the first boss the screen will be noticable dim. If you hit the home button on the ps controller in about 10 seconds the brightness is restored. You go back into the game, brightness is restored and it looks great again. Till it starts to get dim again in about 1 minute. You can also hit the the home button on the tvs remote, scroll around, and the brightness will come back in about 10 seconds to. If you do not intervene eventually the brightness will restore but it seems to take a complete change in what is on the screen in order to trigger it restore the original brightness. Like pulling up the map in a game, or changing areas. Then it will start to dim out again over the next minute.

I've noticed it in Farcry 5. You'll be running around playing the game and then all of the sudden you notice the picture is really dim. Almost like a cloud is covering the sun but its not. I've seen this same issue in Monster Hunter World, No Ni Kuni 2 and many other HDR titles. In MHW if your out in the field on a hunt you will notice that the everything gets much dimmer all the sudden. At the Ni No Kuni 2 title screen, which is a scrolling animated background, in about 1 minute the picture will become dim. In Gran Turismo Sport about halfway through a race the brightness is noticeably dim. It's almost as if the HDR part of the content is being removed. The image presented during this dimming doesn't look like a HDR picture.

I have friends that have various models of the LG oled and they are not seeing what I am describing when co-op gaming with them. I tested this on a regular PS4 and get the same issue. I am also seeing this happen with a Nintendo switch on another HDMI input.

This brightness fluctuation while viewing the A1E is highly annoying, immersion breaking and very noticeable to even a untrained eye.

Could this be some sort of Automatic Static Brightness Limiter kicking in? I dont think its the typical Automatic Brightness Limiter kicking in as its a gradual reduction in brightness after X amount of time and not an immediate change. I read that the LGs have a “TPC” setting that can be disabled in the service menu. I have seen no mention of toggling this type of function on a Sony. Is there something similar in the Sony service menu? Any other ideas as to what is going on?

Current Settings:
Custom/Game/Standard Picture Mode - HDR and SDR
Auto picture mode - off
Light sensor - off
Brightness - max
Contrast - 90
Gamma - 0
Black Level - 50
Black Adjust - off
Adv contrast enhancer - off
Peak lumiance - high
Color - 50
Hue - 0
Color temperature - expert 1
Adv color temperature - defaults
Live Color - off
Sharpness - 50
Reality Creation - off
Smooth gradation - low
Motionflow - off
Video options - all set to auto
Eco mode - off
Pixel shifter - on
Screen saver set to 15 minutes on tv and ps4
Advanced HDMI enabled for ports 2 and 3

Display options are all set to auto on the ps4.

I've attached some photos that kinda illustrate what I'm seeing. Its not as obvious in the pictures as it is in person but you can defiantly see the difference in brightness between the two pictures.
Thanks for explaining further the issues me and a few others have experienced. What you are seeing isn't abl kicking in it's something else. I'm convinced it was the dolby vision update. Prior to that I did not have any issues. I completed Horizon Zero Dawn, Gran Turismo Sport, etc and the screen stayed nice and bright through the at least 300+ hours I have spent gaming on the tv.

Set up 1|Sony XBR65A1E|Pioneer SC-97|Panasonic DMP-UB900|PS4 Pro|Xbox One X|Apple TV|5.2.4 Dolby Atmos|Nintendo Switch|
Set up 2|LG OLED65C8|Pioneer SC-LX502
|Sony UBPX-X700|Xbox One X|PS4|Nintendo Wii U|Apple TV 4K|3.2.2 Dolby Atmos|
Other|LG 55EF9500|Sony XBR-55HX929|Yamaha RX-A1060BL|
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post #4787 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Note the first image looks consistent:


Note the second image, far right 2nd square down, is darkened. Oppo 203 will be darker on 444, and rproper on 422, my UB900 and UB200 Panny's look like the first image with 422 or 444



Its a fine chroma thing
Maybe this belongs in the OPPO thread, but since it was brought up here... These are screen shots from my A1E and OPPO 203; first image is 4:2:2, second is 4:4:4. I don't see any difference in that far right 2nd square down with the 4:4:4, so what gives?
Attached Thumbnails
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Views:	54
Size:	1.05 MB
ID:	2382006   Click image for larger version

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Views:	53
Size:	1.07 MB
ID:	2382008  

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post #4788 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 06:14 PM
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Both of yours look dark to me, but its hard to tell.

If I set the 203 so it sent out 12 bit 444, it would darken the fine chroma pattern. If I used 12 bit 422 it would not. I had read before the 203 had a 444 chroma bug, here on AVS.

If I set my UB900 or UB200 to 12 bit 444 and 422, the pattern looks the same and how it is supposed to. But it has been noted the Panny UHD players do a little better with chroma than the Oppo.

Not sure why your's would not change, but I got the same results with a 940E and A1E, even if I bypassed my Yamaha A3060 AVR (video processing off).

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post #4789 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killoren View Post
I have been experiencing this dimming brightness issue that has been mentioned in this thread. This is on a 65A1E.

I mostly game on a ps4 pro and the HDR picture will look really good when first starting out, nice and bright, then in about 1 minute the screen will start to dim out over the next 5 seconds and remain dim until there is a complete change on the screen. Its like eco mode is being flipped on or extended dynamic range is being set to low or off. If you actually set XDR to low or off the picture looks just as dim as when this issue occurs. If you set extended dynamic range to low or off the picture does not seem to dim in either SDR or HDR modes. If you lower the contrast to 50 or below it doesn't seem to occur. But with the contrast or XDR so low the picture is already dim. This is also happening in SDR mode but to a lesser extent. Enabling BFI also displays this issue.

Eco mode is disabled. I've toggled the pixel shifter on and off and that does not affect it. The light sensor for brightness is disabled. Adv Contrast Enhancer is off. It's really noticeable when playing games on a ps4 pro in HDR. I've also noticed it start to dim out during HDR and DV content on the Netflix built in app but with this it seems to take a bit longer and it's more random to start dimming compared to gaming. This happens in the standard/custom/cinema pro/game picture modes, I have not tested all the other modes. I manually installed the 3.20.18 dated firmware the other day and then did a factory reset. Issues is still occurring.

When playing a HDR game like ESO and running a dungeon by the time you get done with the first boss the screen will be noticable dim. If you hit the home button on the ps controller in about 10 seconds the brightness is restored. You go back into the game, brightness is restored and it looks great again. Till it starts to get dim again in about 1 minute. You can also hit the the home button on the tvs remote, scroll around, and the brightness will come back in about 10 seconds to. If you do not intervene eventually the brightness will restore but it seems to take a complete change in what is on the screen in order to trigger it restore the original brightness. Like pulling up the map in a game, or changing areas. Then it will start to dim out again over the next minute.

I've noticed it in Farcry 5. You'll be running around playing the game and then all of the sudden you notice the picture is really dim. Almost like a cloud is covering the sun but its not. I've seen this same issue in Monster Hunter World, No Ni Kuni 2 and many other HDR titles. In MHW if your out in the field on a hunt you will notice that the everything gets much dimmer all the sudden. At the Ni No Kuni 2 title screen, which is a scrolling animated background, in about 1 minute the picture will become dim. In Gran Turismo Sport about halfway through a race the brightness is noticeably dim. It's almost as if the HDR part of the content is being removed. The image presented during this dimming doesn't look like a HDR picture.

I have friends that have various models of the LG oled and they are not seeing what I am describing when co-op gaming with them. I tested this on a regular PS4 and get the same issue. I am also seeing this happen with a Nintendo switch on another HDMI input.

This brightness fluctuation while viewing the A1E is highly annoying, immersion breaking and very noticeable to even a untrained eye.

Could this be some sort of Automatic Static Brightness Limiter kicking in? I dont think its the typical Automatic Brightness Limiter kicking in as its a gradual reduction in brightness after X amount of time and not an immediate change. I read that the LGs have a “TPC” setting that can be disabled in the service menu. I have seen no mention of toggling this type of function on a Sony. Is there something similar in the Sony service menu? Any other ideas as to what is going on?

Current Settings:
Custom/Game/Standard Picture Mode - HDR and SDR
Auto picture mode - off
Light sensor - off
Brightness - max
Contrast - 90
Gamma - 0
Black Level - 50
Black Adjust - off
Adv contrast enhancer - off
Peak lumiance - high
Color - 50
Hue - 0
Color temperature - expert 1
Adv color temperature - defaults
Live Color - off
Sharpness - 50
Reality Creation - off
Smooth gradation - low
Motionflow - off
Video options - all set to auto
Eco mode - off
Pixel shifter - on
Screen saver set to 15 minutes on tv and ps4
Advanced HDMI enabled for ports 2 and 3

Display options are all set to auto on the ps4.

I've attached some photos that kinda illustrate what I'm seeing. Its not as obvious in the pictures as it is in person but you can defiantly see the difference in brightness between the two pictures.
Ok, so you are playing games where the screen is doing 350 nits+ all the time. You are probably triggering a feature similar to LG’s ASBL algorithm. It’s a protection scheme to make sure you do not overheat the panel/create persistent IR.
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post #4790 of 7590 Old 03-28-2018, 06:23 PM
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Both of yours look dark to me, but its hard to tell.

If I set the 203 so it sent out 12 bit 444, it would darken the fine chroma pattern. If I used 12 bit 422 it would not. I had read before the 203 had a 444 chroma bug, here on AVS.

If I set my UB900 or UB200 to 12 bit 444 and 422, the pattern looks the same and how it is supposed to. But it has been noted the Panny UHD players do a little better with chroma than the Oppo.

Not sure why your's would not change, but I got the same results with a 940E and A1E, even if I bypassed my Yamaha A3060 AVR (video processing off).
Agreed. The pictures are also blurry. RTracey, are you going direct to the TV or through a receiver/soundbar?
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Agreed. The pictures are also blurry. RTracey, are you going direct to the TV or through a receiver/soundbar?
The pictures are probably blurry due to my iPhone technique in a dark room, but I am going through my Denon 7200 (in pass through mode, ie, no processing by the receiver).

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Ok, so you are playing games where the screen is doing 350 nits+ all the time. You are probably triggering a feature similar to LG’s ASBL algorithm. It’s a protection scheme to make sure you do not overheat the panel/create persistent IR.
I own a LG EF9500 and am aware of how the screen looks when the ASBL is triggered it's not that. If you ever see it in person it appears far worse than anything LG has ever implemented. I have noticed it in SDR in night screens (underworld blood wars when using directv now on my apple tv for example). The screen should not be dimming further in dark/night scenes where there is limited light/nit output.

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I own a LG EF9500 and am aware of how the screen looks when the ASBL is triggered it's not that. If you ever see it in person it appears far worse than anything LG has ever implemented. I have noticed it in SDR in night screens (underworld blood wars when using directv now on my apple tv for example). The screen should not be dimming further in dark/night scenes where there is limited light/nit output.
You need to call Sony. My response was based on the settings the other poster was using. You guys may be lumping multiple “dimming” items into one and specifically why I asked for settings being used.
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The pictures are probably blurry due to my iPhone technique in a dark room, but I am going through my Denon 7200 (in pass through mode, ie, no processing by the receiver).
Denons have a tendsncy to mangle video signals. Try running direct to the TV.
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You need to call Sony. My response was based on the settings the other poster was using. You guys may be lumping multiple “dimming” items into one and specifically why I asked for settings being used.
Yeah I have a case open with them now I will see how it turns out. I provided my settings earlier for SDR/HDR movies, tv shows, etc it's not too far off from the default cinema pro. The other poster focused on gaming which is another area where the issue can be seen. Unfortunately the dimming issue rears it's head no matter what type of content is being watched/played.

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OK, I went back and checked, and here is what causes the issue on the A1E, I may have been thinking about a previous display.

Source direct vs scaling 1080p to 2160p is what caused the darkening on my current setup.

Now I have read more than once there is a bug with 444, not sure which pattern proves it because I have seen certain displays and or AVR's fail things differently, its why you have to check. But even the Oppo beta guys say to go 12 bit 422.
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Denons have a tendsncy to mangle video signals. Try running direct to the TV.
Thanks D-Nice

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Yes I did and unfortunately we discovered that Sony OS does NOT support "flash". www.MotoGP.com uses Flash for video streaming/playback and after several attempts at trying to install the "flash" component and failing ... then reading online that Sony doesn't support "flash" we ultimately gave up and back to using a Media PC and HDMI inputs to TV.

www.MotoGP.com has an HTML5 player but that doesn't seem to work either under VEWD or Chrome.

Cheers, Rob.
Yeah Android stopped supporting flash a few years ago and really don't want to see it ever again (good thing too, flash is a horrible disaster).

It is nice to see flash is finally dying out.

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So I have installed the Dolby vision update.
Is there a reason that the motionflow settings cannot be set properly in dolby vision picture mode?
Does Dolby vision choose own motionsetting for the content it's playing or does it default to a certain setting?

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So I have installed the Dolby vision update.
Is there a reason that the motionflow settings cannot be set properly in dolby vision picture mode?
Does Dolby vision choose own motionsetting for the content it's playing or does it default to a certain setting?
I use custom just like I do with HDR10 and SDR.

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