Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra HD Owners Only Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 21 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #601 of 7748 Old 07-03-2017, 02:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post
Basically, if you use the values that Al put up, you will see extra detail in certain HDR scenes. What you'll also do is introduce much higher error levels in the vast majority of the content compared to what it should be.
This is a great post. The settings I put up was expected to return those values on static images used for measuring.

Static images doesn't allow Sony's dynamic HDR remastering algorithm to operate which adjust luminance correction frame-by-frame on playing content.

What's for sure, is on the scenes that have been pointed out by Vincent to present tone mapping issues for the A1E, and the result from the LG and Panasonic in his video, is remedied with the "Sony Vision" settings.

Tuning contrast down fixing the blown highlights from Vincent video then Gamma to 2, ACE high and Brightness max gives the A1 a "high luminance cap" for which its luminance corrector operates frame-by-frame during playback.

I would imagine the same settings on a non-X1E Sony TV wouldn't perform the same due to the lack of what looks to be an over riding global luminance correction.

Take away the luminance correction, the settings wouldn't be feasible.

The A1 is the first OLED I've owned, and I would also believe the Z9D and "E" series Sony LEDs are the first TVs I know of to have an always-on luminance corrector...

This introduces a variable to calibration/measuring that makes it difficult to get a traditional pro adjustment without being able to measure moving video content. Where Dolby Vision dynamic performance is written into the metadata, Sony's X1E chip is forcing an automated process..

My thought, stemming from my computer engineering experience, would be to feed the X1E algorithm with the "low" and "high" spectrum of luminance to operate its automated process within...

And it worked!

The issue with Vincent's video on the A1's tone mapping is he didn't instruct the A1 low luminance (Contrast 70 in Sony Vision Settings) and high luminance (ACE high/Brightness MAX) and trust the X1E chip to auto-adjust the luminance within this range for a more controlled tone mapping in content playback.. Again, this luminance performance wont work on static content, the X1E need to analyze "object" data in a frame to determine a luminance delivery consisting of the limits of the OLED display's EDID along with the brightness settings low-high parameters.

Vincent's video didn't define a low luminance cap.. thats why the highlights in his A1 tone mapping video was blown.

Last edited by Al Leong; 07-03-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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post #602 of 7748 Old 07-03-2017, 03:25 PM
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Calibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancolt View Post
Ever since switching from my LG B7, I have had my Motionflow settings on - Custom, Smoothness on 3 and clearness on Low.

I haven't experienced any issues at all with the motion but why leave well enough alone.

What are you guys using as your Motionflow settings and is there any explanation of Standard, Smooth and True Cinema?

Dan
Thanks for this Dan. I've used these setting and my image is much improved. I've also started using Cinema home rather than cinema pro, and again seen a big improvement ... just watched Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and it looked fantastic.
I've taken the plunge and am getting my A1 professionally calibrated this weekend.... will let you know the outcome!
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post #603 of 7748 Old 07-03-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Echoroom View Post
Thanks for this Dan. I've used these setting and my image is much improved. I've also started using Cinema home rather than cinema pro, and again seen a big improvement ... just watched Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and it looked fantastic.
I've taken the plunge and am getting my A1 professionally calibrated this weekend.... will let you know the outcome!
Glad it helped!

I just watched the new Ghost Busters last night in 4K HDR using the Sony Ultra App. Wow looked great.

Dan
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post #604 of 7748 Old 07-03-2017, 07:31 PM
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I'm so impressed with this TV. I recently viewed Virunga National Park Gorilla Trek 4K Ultra HD via YouTube. I was there 30 years ago and this film is exactly as I remembered my excursion. The colors that day were vivid due to the rains the evening before and this film is spot on.
While there I was using Fuji 35mm film which was exceptional at greens and blacks. The video images matches my pictures. I'm impressed!
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post #605 of 7748 Old 07-04-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dancolt View Post
I just watched the new Ghost Busters last night in 4K HDR using the Sony Ultra App. Wow looked great.
Dan
Come on now, what does not look good on this set in 4K or 1080P for that matter.....lol
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post #606 of 7748 Old 07-04-2017, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancolt View Post
Glad it helped!

I just watched the new Ghost Busters last night in 4K HDR using the Sony Ultra App. Wow looked great.

Dan
What's the Sony Ultra app?
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post #607 of 7748 Old 07-04-2017, 01:34 PM
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What's the Sony Ultra app?
It is an app that you can download on the A1E to rent or purchase 4k HDR movies. The cost to rent is $7.99. Not too bad.

Dan
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post #608 of 7748 Old 07-04-2017, 02:07 PM
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Got my 65A1E on Friday. Decided not to wall mount and take advantage of its kick stand design which lets me move the tv much closer than on the wall - currently sitting at about 7.5ft and the viewing angle is just short of "last row" at the movie theater.

Coming from the Panasonic 60" ST50 plasma (calibrated using DNice method) - the A1E is exceptional. I cannot believe how much depth the picture has when fed with a high quality source. It gets insanely bright in a dark room (Cinema Pro + X-tended Dynamic Range set to HIGH). I know it should be set to medium but the picture has so much pop/zazz without looking overblown. Actually surprised how bright it can get. Finding Dory/Pixar movies light up the room.

http://imgur.com/a/oGWID

Not sure if i should be "aging" the panel with full screen material for the first 100-200 hours, so far i havent been worrying about it - about 75% this weekend has been with 21:9 movies...no real hint of image retention. Planet Earth 2, and the IMAX scenes in Dark Knight look incredible (Hong Kong scene).

Questions
  1. Should ACE be turned on? Currently have it off.
  2. What are your thoughts on Geek Squad calibration? Dont have many options where i live (Winnipeg, Canada) - that or maybe get an i1 display pro - but pretty sure it doesnt support HDR.
  3. Anyone install PLEX? Debating on whether not i should use my Roku Premiere+. Not sure if i should set the Roku to be 1080p mode and let the A1E do the upscaling - although this would cause downsampling of actual HEVC 4k movies i have. Avoiding built in Android OS stuff and deferring the "smart" functionality to the Roku.
  4. Can someone explain what Reality Creation | Resolution mean? Is it meant for low quality sources and how the A1E upscales it?
  5. Should BFI only be turned on for gaming and not movies?

TV: 65" Sony OLED XBR65A1E Speakers: KEF LS50 LCR Front Stage Subs: SVS PB2000 & PB1000 [B] AVR: Denon X3300W DSP: Dirac Live Full Suite

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post #609 of 7748 Old 07-04-2017, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrolds View Post
Got my 65A1E on Friday. Decided not to wall mount and take advantage of its kick stand design which lets me move the tv much closer than on the wall - currently sitting at about 7.5ft and the viewing angle is just short of "last row" at the movie theater.

Coming from the Panasonic 60" ST50 plasma (calibrated using DNice method) - the A1E is exceptional. I cannot believe how much depth the picture has when fed with a high quality source. It gets insanely bright in a dark room (Cinema Pro + X-tended Dynamic Range set to HIGH). I know it should be set to medium but the picture has so much pop/zazz without looking overblown. Actually surprised how bright it can get. Finding Dory/Pixar movies light up the room.

http://imgur.com/a/oGWID

Not sure if i should be "aging" the panel with full screen material for the first 100-200 hours, so far i havent been worrying about it - about 75% this weekend has been with 21:9 movies...no real hint of image retention. Planet Earth 2, and the IMAX scenes in Dark Knight look incredible (Hong Kong scene).

Questions
  1. Should ACE be turned on? Currently have it off.
  2. What are your thoughts on Geek Squad calibration? Dont have many options where i live (Winnipeg, Canada) - that or maybe get an i1 display pro - but pretty sure it doesnt support HDR.
  3. Anyone install PLEX? Debating on whether not i should use my Roku Premiere+. Not sure if i should set the Roku to be 1080p mode and let the A1E do the upscaling - although this would cause downsampling of actual HEVC 4k movies i have. Avoiding built in Android OS stuff and deferring the "smart" functionality to the Roku.
  4. Can someone explain what Reality Creation | Resolution mean? Is it meant for low quality sources and how the A1E upscales it?
  5. Should BFI only be turned on for gaming and not movies?
Congrats on your A1E.

Opinions are gonna vary dramatically to many of your questions. My thoughts on the first few...

1) If you are a purist that wants the best calibrated display, you want ACE OFF. OTOH, you will find some owners like what it provides to varying degrees. My suggestion is get your other settings the way you like (calibrated or not), then try it with ACE on various settings.

2) Check upthread here and over in the primary A1E thread as this has been discussed several times. Net is, Geek Squad may be better than nothing, but opinions are strongly mixed depending on who the actual person is that does the work and their personal experience. There are some professionals here that can do a stellar job, but will likely also charge more depending on your needs and expectations. If you want to try calibration on your own, first do a lot of reading before you buy any gear... Some owners are perfectly happy doing the basics with just a decent pattern disc; others use something like CalMAN with a pattern disc, and some go further with different combinations. Buying a $1K meter does not accomplish anything without appropriate SW ago go with it. Don't buy gear without really understanding what you want to accomplish, and then if it makes financial,sense vs having a real qualified and experienced professional do the job for you.

3) I don't use Plex, but again, there many posts in both threads on upscaling. I personally let my Roku Premier+ do what it could based on source, and then let my A1E upscale from there if needed. You will find though some sources may be able to provide equal or better upscaling than your A1E. IMHO, the A1E does a great job most of the time, but there are two specific scenarios I've documented in the A1E threads a couple times where I let my OPPO or AVR handle the job.

4) YMMV, but I keep Realtion Creation on Manual, with Resolution at 40. Reality Creation may help some lower res content, and as you increase resolution with say 4K content, you'll notice finer detail becomes more apparent. Over-doing it will look too processed. You need to play with both and see what is best for what you watch.

5) I'm not a gamer so won't try to respond.
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post #610 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 06:08 AM
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^^^
Just to add, XDR can be set to anything you want. It's a crazy control because all it does it limit the brightness to a range so you can get finer adjustments with the brightness control. Low= 100 nits max for example. So for example brightness =15 and XDR set to High is roughly the same as brightness =30 and XDR set to Medium. I've found that for most viewing, just set it to high and adjust the brightness to whatever suits your room lighting conditions.

Also about the Geek Squad calibration, I agree, entry level but they can do a good basic job in the 2 hours, (I checked just for curiosity), that they have to calibrate assuming that the calibrator they send is "up to speed". Just don't expect a full SDR and HDR calibration that you would get from an experienced calibrator spending four hours or more. Two different services at two different price points. Some say better than nothing but if it's nothing then learning to DIY is probably a better option if you have the time and interest to learn. You can pick up a meter for a couple hundred dollars and get some free software, the AVS pattern disk is free. Calman has a ton of videos and there are other tutorials on the web that go through the step by step instructions.

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post #611 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrolds View Post
...
Anyone install PLEX? Debating on whether not i should use my Roku Premiere+. Not sure if i should set the Roku to be 1080p mode and let the A1E do the upscaling - although this would cause downsampling of actual HEVC 4k movies i have. Avoiding built in Android OS stuff and deferring the "smart" functionality to the Roku.
Plex seems to be limited to 1920x1080, same with Kodi, but with Kodi (using a special version for the Sony), you can also get Dolby D surround sound from your sources.

For best quality, I've found putting the MKV files on a flash drive and using the built in google TV video player works well and also handles DTS and Dolby D surround tracks properly. I'm using the optical toslink connection to my receiver, so HDMI may add additional variables.

My biggest issue is trying to find any app other than the built in 'albums' program that will show my photos in higher resolution than 1920x1080. All of them seem to be limited to what the google TV is revealing to the playstore apps for video resolution being dummed down to 1920x1080.

I'm using the x900e but I believe this info is still applicable.

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post #612 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 06:34 PM
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Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra HD Owners Only Thread [No Price Talk]

Received my A1E from Best Buy earlier today. The banding rivals my 2015 EF9500. In fact, I'm pretty confident it's worse. Running one manual comp cycle, but barring a miracle, this thing is going back ASAP.

For anyone who cares to see, this is after a panel clear and pretty true to life. Bands are visible on menu screens of all colors and in all content I've tested:

Click image for larger version

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post #613 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BLeClair12 View Post
Received my A1E from Best Buy earlier today. The banding rivals my 2015 EF9500. In fact, I'm pretty confident it's worse. Running one manual comp cycle, but barring a miracle, this thing is going back ASAP.


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Good luck. I returned my first from BB for the same reason. Luckily, my second is MUCH better. Time improves things a bit, but I waited until my first panel had over 200 hours on it before returning it, and it hadn't improved much, to be honest. If you get a bad one, the best advice is to go back to the roulette table and hope for better, although it is really a PITA to return them, and you can't help thinking that the second one could be as bad or worse, which is true. Again, good luck.

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post #614 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLeClair12 View Post
Received my A1E from Best Buy earlier today. The banding rivals my 2015 EF9500. In fact, I'm pretty confident it's worse. Running one manual comp cycle, but barring a miracle, this thing is going back ASAP.

For anyone who cares to see, this is after a panel clear and pretty true to life. Bands are visible on menu screens of all colors and in all content I've tested:

Attachment 2220609
I want to see this panel after a manual clear screen. It might not be the case with yours but I've seen this before, ran a clear screen and most of the uniformity issues disappeared.

John
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post #615 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 07:55 PM
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I want to see this panel after a manual clear screen. It might not be the case with yours but I've seen this before, ran a clear screen and most of the uniformity issues disappeared.


The picture is from after the manual clear. The only thing it appears to have done is clean up a darker area just left of center. That blob extended all the way to the left side of the screen before. No difference in the bands at all.
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post #616 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 07:56 PM
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The picture is from after the manual clear. The only thing it appears to have done is clean up a darker area just left of center. That blob extended all the way to the left side of the screen before. No difference in the bands at all.
Then it's time to return it.
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post #617 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 08:46 PM
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Then it's time to return it.
Already boxed up and ready to go. I've gotten to be a pro at this, unfortunately.
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post #618 of 7748 Old 07-05-2017, 11:47 PM
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Most of the A1E's I've seen so far have that first dark vertical band just to the right of centre. I ended up exchanging mine (waiting on new one to arrive) as that band as well as a couple on the left side were noticeable with certain panning shots in night time scenes, especially.
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post #619 of 7748 Old 07-06-2017, 09:50 AM
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I've acquired a Oppo UDP-203 and have it connected to HDMI input 2 of the A1E. Are you supposed to use the Enhanced HDMI setting to get the most out of the Oppo or is this setting more for computer/game display? Thanks

PS. How do you add a signature when posting? Thanks

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post #620 of 7748 Old 07-06-2017, 09:56 AM
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I've acquired a Oppo UDP-203 and have it connected to HDMI input 2 of the A1E. Are you supposed to use the Enhanced HDMI setting to get the most out of the Oppo or is this setting more for computer/game display? Thanks
You MUST change the A1E "HDMI Signal Format" setting to "Enhanced" if you want to use higher-quality formats including HDR on input 2 or 3. It's the first basic setting you need to change on the A1E.
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...PS. How do you add a signature when posting? Thanks
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/profil...=editsignature
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Interesting question I wonder if anyone knows the answer to.
On HDMI 3 where my cable box is connected, I can go into the settings and adjust the screen settings, wide, zoom, normal, etc.. But on HDMI 2 where I have my Oppo 203 and HDMI 1 and 4 that doesn't have anything connected, all the screen settings are grayed out.

Does anyone know why? I have the enhanced HDMI turned on for the Oppo but i'm not sure that's it because HDMI 1 & 4 are not effected by that feature.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Interesting question I wonder if anyone knows the answer to.

On HDMI 3 where my cable box is connected, I can go into the settings and adjust the screen settings, wide, zoom, normal, etc.. But on HDMI 2 where I have my Oppo 203 and HDMI 1 and 4 that doesn't have anything connected, all the screen settings are grayed out.



Does anyone know why? I have the enhanced HDMI turned on for the Oppo but i'm not sure that's it because HDMI 1 & 4 are not effected by that feature.


It is my understanding that you can't change screen settings when receiving 2160p all other resolutions are capable of being manipulated.
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post #624 of 7748 Old 07-06-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krismate View Post
Most of the A1E's I've seen so far have that first dark vertical band just to the right of centre. I ended up exchanging mine (waiting on new one to arrive) as that band as well as a couple on the left side were noticeable with certain panning shots in night time scenes, especially.
I've got the same band on the right on my A1E; seems to have lightened up a bit over 200 hrs of use and two manual clear screens, but still noticeable on some dark scenes if it pans. Could probably live with it, but decided to request a replacement and see if I have any better luck.

Edit: BTW, got mine from Crutchfield if it's helpful.

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post #625 of 7748 Old 07-06-2017, 11:41 AM
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@BertL
Thanks for the info.
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post #626 of 7748 Old 07-07-2017, 02:59 AM
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I'm getting a a1e next week any tips to getting the best experience? I will eventually get it professionally calibrated. Im coming from a 10 year old plasma.
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post #627 of 7748 Old 07-07-2017, 07:50 AM
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I'm getting a a1e next week any tips to getting the best experience? I will eventually get it professionally calibrated. Im coming from a 10 year old plasma.
Congrats on your soon-to-be new A1E!

Suggest you read back through this, the primary A1E, and A1E calibration thread for ideas. Much has been discussed already, but as with most things, opinions vary as to what you may want to do.
  • Some like using slides during break-in. (I didn't, and am perfectly happy with my result just using various content -- and I too came from a 10YO Pioneer Elite Plasma Monitor.)
  • If you want to play around with initial settings, there are a number of variations noted in detail across the treads, e.g. Older settings of mine; Al's latest personal settings recommendations, John's basics using Custom/Cinema Pro, and others including from a couple of the panel reviews you'll find in their articles you've likely read. You'll also want to spend a little time with Motion Settings to find what works best for the content you enjoy -- plenty of suggestions all over these threads on that too.
  • Make sure you have certified premium HDMI cables, create yourself a checklist, and once you have everything in place, test out each of your components to ensure all is working at max possible resolution and capability for everything involved. IMHO it's easier to do this on your schedule when you have some dedicated quiet time, than have friends/family over to show off your new toy and possibly run into a problem.
  • Assuming you have a 4K UHD Player, get yourself a couple 4K UHD Blu-rays that interest you and decide what you first demonstration of 4K HDR10 to yourself will be. (PE II is SUPER, as are several action movies you'll see referenced throughout these threads.)
  • Just get ready to be bowled-over with your new toy and ENJOY!
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post #628 of 7748 Old 07-07-2017, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrbonus View Post
I'm getting a a1e next week any tips to getting the best experience? I will eventually get it professionally calibrated. Im coming from a 10 year old plasma.
Connect your TV to the Internet.
Use the YouTube app to find 4K UHD clips. Just say "Costa Rica 4K" into your remote and be prepared to smile. Enjoy!
ataneruo and amudar like this.

Sony XBR55A1E

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post #629 of 7748 Old 07-07-2017, 02:37 PM
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Anyone else using the stand for their A1E? Been thinking of propping up the back by an inch - maybe using a couple hockey pucks to try and have the screen be 90deg...im sure this will make it less stable...maybe putting some counterweights?

Love using the kickstand as you can really put the tv to the edge of your entertainment unit - that could be like 6" closer viewing distance compared to normal built in TV stands, and maybe up to 2 feet when wall mounted. Only downside is the 5 degree tilt.

TV: 65" Sony OLED XBR65A1E Speakers: KEF LS50 LCR Front Stage Subs: SVS PB2000 & PB1000 [B] AVR: Denon X3300W DSP: Dirac Live Full Suite

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post #630 of 7748 Old 07-07-2017, 03:22 PM
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Anyone else using the stand for their A1E? Been thinking of propping up the back by an inch - maybe using a couple hockey pucks to try and have the screen be 90deg...im sure this will make it less stable...maybe putting some counterweights?
I would strongly advise against propping up the kickstand. At the very least, give it another week or two. I thought the tilt would drive me crazy, but after a couple dozen hours of use, I didn't even notice it anymore. You've only had it a week. Give it a little more time.

And for heaven's sake, don't use hockey pucks. If you're going to hack together a solution, at least make sure the weight gets evenly distributed, and the area of distribution should be larger than the base of the kickstand itself. Something else made of finely textured rubber might be a good choice--you'll want a lot of static friction along both pairs of surfaces. Even better if it has a lip around the upper surface, just in case the kickstand does slip free. Remember, that kickstand is where your subwoofer is, so it's channeling a good bit of vibration. Yes, you would want a counterweight, and you'd need to remember your high school trigonometry to make sure you don't end up with less downward force than you had before.

Also, don't do it.

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