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post #961 of 1006 Old 01-16-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
"Advanced HDR by Technicolor" to the rescue . . . See points 1 & 2. More details coming February 2nd.

"Technicolor Advanced HDR" is a combination of "Technicolor HDR ITM" (Intelligent Tone Management) – which up-converts SDR content to HDR – and "Technicolor HDR" – which simultaneously distributes HDR and SDR content through one single 8 bit stream. This is significant. This is the future.

1. Content will look as the director or colorist intended, regardless of format or display peak luminance.

2. Adapts to any workflow, content, or display peak luminance on a frame-by-frame basis.

3. Allows a broader array of content and is not limited to native HDR content, and will include live broadcast and existing libraries. ( Hello HLG )

4. It will save the industry millions of dollars in infrastructure because there will be no need for a separate delivery system.

I'll wait for more information. I have no interest in magic conversions of existing SDR content to HDR.


- Rich
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post #962 of 1006 Old 01-16-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I'll wait for more information. I have no interest in magic conversions of existing SDR content to HDR.


- Rich
I don't believe that any of us have a choice but to wait, and it's not a "magic" conversion. What is does is bring HDR down to earth by getting rid of the EOTF curve in favor of standard gamma's. Also, keep in mind that 80% of what gets graded from the studios / mastering houses is touched by technicolor - meaning this will be applied prior to distribution.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #963 of 1006 Old 01-16-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I don't believe that any of us have a choice but to wait, and it's not a "magic" conversion. What is does is bring HDR down to earth by getting rid of the EOTF curve in favor of standard gamma's. Also, keep in mind that 80% of what gets graded from the studios / mastering houses is touched by technicolor - meaning this will be applied prior to distribution.

The UHD standard includes the PQ EOTF so without a new standard it cannot be gotten rid off.
Tone-mapping and brightness limiting deviate from the PQ EOTF.
Dynamic tone-mapping tracks the PQ EOTF when possible and it works pretty well.


Technicolor could take the approach of adding a gamma curve and we will see how that works out.
I don't know that DV processing seems to live within curve but dramatically changes the brightness of scenes when compared to HDR 10 on my LG C7. Hopefully, LG will fix the DV over HDMI bug.


- Rich

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post #964 of 1006 Old 01-16-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
The UHD standard includes the PQ EOTF so without a new standard it cannot be gotten rid off.
Tone-mapping and brightness limiting deviate from the PQ EOTF.
Dynamic tone-mapping tracks the PQ EOTF when possible and it works pretty well.


Technicolor could take the approach of adding a gamma curve and we will see how that works out.
I don't know that DV processing seems to live within curve but dramatically changes the brightness of scenes when compared to HDR 10 on my LG C7. Hopefully, LG will fix the DV over HDMI bug.


- Rich
We'll see how they pull it off. It sure would be nice to not have to deal with the "with luminance" delta errors. But, the main takeaway from my comment was that all this will be done in post, and prior to distribution.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700
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post #965 of 1006 Old 01-17-2018, 07:14 PM
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https://www.whathifi.com/lg/oled55c8/review
Not a real review, but more than nothing
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post #966 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jeesus1888 View Post
https://www.whathifi.com/lg/oled55c8/review
Not a real review, but more than nothing
Another "review" https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...t-impressions/

Seems the 2018 Models have better image quality and features, altough the panel seems the same.
I want to buy a 65" TV. Would you recommend waiting for March / April to C8 or buy the C7? The C8 will go to € 4,000 approx, right? The C7 is in Spain at about € 2,700.

Thanks!
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post #967 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by romero91 View Post
Another "review" https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...t-impressions/

Seems the 2018 Models have better image quality and features, altough the panel seems the same.
I want to buy a 65" TV. Would you recommend waiting for March / April to C8 or buy the C7? The C8 will go to € 4,000 approx, right? The C7 is in Spain at about € 2,700.
Everyone has their own approach, but if it was me and I wasn't in a hurry to buy a TV I'd wait a few months for the professional reviews to be published.
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post #968 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 06:29 AM
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I don't have money to burn so I will always buy the "outgoing" model of any electronics. Bought my $2500 list price receiver for $999. Plan on getting a 65"C8 late this year hopefully around $2500.

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post #969 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 06:39 AM
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Partly but not only because of the improved motion performance, I was also struck by how much more crisp and detailed the W8/E8’s pictures looked compared with 2017 models.
Oh well more "crisp and detailed" - the usual copy n paste text for a "review" of a new TV by forbes.
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post #970 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonHa View Post
Everyone has their own approach, but if it was me and I wasn't in a hurry to buy a TV I'd wait a few months for the professional reviews to be published.
Probably will be a little while longer then that, these may hit the streets in March sometime, then you will need a good 30 days for reviews..... We will see if they are a on time release
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post #971 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 11:07 AM
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There are too many improvements still needed to buy the latest and greatest this year.

No HDMI 2.1, no improvement in peak brightness, no word on whether uniformity issues will be addressed.

So pay $1500 more over the last year's model to watch Netflix in 4K?
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post #972 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
There are too many improvements still needed to buy the latest and greatest this year.

No HDMI 2.1, no improvement in peak brightness, no word on whether uniformity issues will be addressed.

So pay $1500 more over the last year's model to watch Netflix in 4K?

No need, Netflix 4K works with 2016 and 2017 OLEDs.


- Rich
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post #973 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by romero91 View Post
Another "review" https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...t-impressions/

Seems the 2018 Models have better image quality and features, altough the panel seems the same.
I want to buy a 65" TV. Would you recommend waiting for March / April to C8 or buy the C7? The C8 will go to € 4,000 approx, right? The C7 is in Spain at about € 2,700.

Thanks!
2018 panel is not the same.

All subpixel sizes have increased, the largers amount by red (+60%) and the smallest amount by blue (+10%):
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post #974 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
2018 panel is not the same.

All subpixel sizes have increased, the largers amount by red (+60%) and the smallest amount by blue (+10%):
That's a bit of significant news! I hope LG again has a showing like they did last year soon after the CES where they invited reviewers to check out the 2017 models.
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post #975 of 1006 Old 01-18-2018, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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That's a bit of significant news!
You need to spend more time monitoring the sticky 'OLED Technology Advancements' thread . Picture of 2017 subpixels below).

The 60% increase in red subpixel is good news for those watching CNN - shoukd deliver 60% more hours before developing equivalent burn-in.

And the increase in all subpixel sizes should be good news at least for ABL if not also peak calibrated brightness (unless LG decides to use all of that increased subpixel efficiency to reduce aging and burn-in, rather than continue to fight the Brightness Wars ).

Quote:
I hope LG again has a showing like they did last year soon after the CES where they invited reviewers to check out the 2017 models.
LG has not said anything about this change to 2018 panel design. They have also not made any claims about increased peak brightness so far.

One possibility is that LGfelt exposed on their 2017 HDR peak brightness claim of 900 cd/m2 (only on vivid, after D65 calibration dropped to ~700 cd/m2) and very exposed on burn-in, in which case these improvements to subpixel efficiency (and likely shifting of native panel whitepoint closer to D65) may be used to just quietly make LG's 2018 WOLED deliver the specs they crowed about in 2017...

Again, here is the 2017 subpixel design for comparison (notice how much smaller red is):
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post #976 of 1006 Old 01-20-2018, 08:32 AM
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I don't have money to burn so I will always buy the "outgoing" model of any electronics. Bought my $2500 list price receiver for $999. Plan on getting a 65"C8 late this year hopefully around $2500.
Hold the phone, late this year, the C8 will not be not a "outgoing" model......
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post #977 of 1006 Old 01-20-2018, 08:36 AM
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Hold the phone, late this year, the C8 will not be not a "outgoing" model......
True, not exactly outgoing. I just meant when the price drops significantly. I can't understand buying a new model as soon as it comes out and paying double what you know it will sell for in about 6 months!

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post #978 of 1006 Old 01-20-2018, 08:28 PM
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Sounds like there?s going to be very solid improvements for this year. However looks like I?ll be waiting until Thanksgiving 2019 to ditch my plasma. I?m going to be one of those people waiting for HDMI 2.1. Any possibility we will see an 8K LG in 2019?
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post #979 of 1006 Old 01-21-2018, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like there?s going to be very solid improvements for this year. However looks like I?ll be waiting until Thanksgiving 2019 to ditch my plasma. I?m going to be one of those people waiting for HDMI 2.1. Any possibility we will see an 8K LG in 2019?
I'd say a pretty good possibility...
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post #980 of 1006 Old 01-21-2018, 02:48 PM
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8k my not be in the size or price range you want though.
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post #981 of 1006 Old 01-21-2018, 04:07 PM
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If 8K has any relevance it's with monster screen sizes, heck I'm still of the opinion that you need at least a 65" screen size for 4K to have relevance.
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post #982 of 1006 Old 01-21-2018, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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If 8K has any relevance it's with monster screen sizes, heck I'm still of the opinion that you need at least a 65" screen size for 4K to have relevance.
The 55" 1080p WOLEDs were pretty unnacceptable as far as visible subpixel structure if you vewed from even 2 screen-widths away (though that was still in the era of 3D).

But while I think both 55" and 65" benefitted ftom 4K, I agree that only screen sizes of 85" and up will offer any worthwhile difference at 8K (though I won't be thatbsurprised to see LG introduce a 75" or 77" 8K WOLED).
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post #983 of 1006 Old 02-27-2018, 03:40 AM
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I found some EU prices in http://www.hifi-journal.de/testberic...-w8-g8?start=1
C series prices looks same like last year. 77" i will buy maybe in next round after 4-5 years
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post #984 of 1006 Old 02-27-2018, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I found some EU prices in http://www.hifi-journal.de/testberic...-w8-g8?start=1
C series prices looks same like last year. 77" i will buy maybe in next round after 4-5 years
Notice how the 77W is 2x the 65W but the 77C is 3x the 65c?

That starting price of 10K for the 77C8 is almost already 7K (2x the 65C8) out of the gate...

The only reason LG may start the 77C8 with an artificially high price of 10K is that it represents a disruption and they want to keep an incentive in place to flush any remaining 77G7s out of the channel before the 77C8 hits the shelves...
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post #985 of 1006 Old 02-27-2018, 11:36 AM
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Notice how the 77W is 2x the 65W but the 77C is 3x the 65c?

That starting price of 10K for the 77C8 is almost already 7K (2x the 65C8) out of the gate...

The only reason LG may start the 77C8 with an artificially high price of 10K is that it represents a disruption and they want to keep an incentive in place to flush any remaining 77G7s out of the channel before the 77C8 hits the shelves...
But the 77C8 is only 6500 more than the 65C8, while the 77W8 is 7500 more than the 65W8. Clearly the 77C8 is the bargain.

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post #986 of 1006 Old 03-05-2018, 05:27 AM
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Any details on the G8? Is this expected for a US release sometime this spring?

It looks to be everything I want from the W8 (super thin to hang on the wall) and doesn't come with the oversized soundbar (certainly better options for audio using the $2k MSRP savings of the G8 vs W8). I've seen a few German video reviews, and some hints that it might be EUR only..

I'm surprised the G8 isn't a more popular topic.. it seems to have everything solved from the W7.

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post #987 of 1006 Old 03-05-2018, 09:05 AM
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post #988 of 1006 Old 03-05-2018, 09:10 AM
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77" C8 in the US has been priced at $9,999. 65" is $3,999.
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post #989 of 1006 Old 03-05-2018, 03:35 PM
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^^^^ I will guess within the next 60 days, probably more like within 30 days........but we will see.....
Thanks for the reply! I was fearing this was going to be a EUR only release.

Any thoughts if/how the W8 is better than the G8? I can't see why anyone would want that W8 soundbar for $2k.

Based on the EUR pricing (5,499 for the 65G8 vs 7,499 for the 65W8) I think this will be a very popular model for anyone looking to wall mount.

I can't do big speakers in my living room, and also can't fish a wire to surrounds.. so I think a Sonos set up with the PlayBar, Sub, and surrounds (for about that same $2k) would be a clean look that would also let me stream music pretty simply.
(not expecting audiophile sound.. thats all set in another room.. just want clean design)
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post #990 of 1006 Old 03-05-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bwaltuck View Post
Thanks for the reply! I was fearing this was going to be a EUR only release.

Any thoughts if/how the W8 is better than the G8? I can't see why anyone would want that W8 soundbar for $2k.

Based on the EUR pricing (5,499 for the 65G8 vs 7,499 for the 65W8) I think this will be a very popular model for anyone looking to wall mount.

I can't do big speakers in my living room, and also can't fish a wire to surrounds.. so I think a Sonos set up with the PlayBar, Sub, and surrounds (for about that same $2k) would be a clean look that would also let me stream music pretty simply.
(not expecting audiophile sound.. thats all set in another room.. just want clean design)
The entire point of the W8 is that it mounts flat on the wall and is under 1/4" thick off the wall. No other TV exist like that. You get to pay a big premium for that unique feature.

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