OLED Screen Uniformity Discussion-Banding and Vignetting - Page 66 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1951 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 05:53 AM
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Doesn't work like that. They accept a replacement, but this works as follows: they pick up the tv, check out if everything is included, then they give an ok and then they send a new tv my way as a replacement. So I would be without a tv for a few days and can only check out the new tv once installed and unpacked.
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post #1952 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post
Doesn't work like that. They accept a replacement, but this works as follows: they pick up the tv, check out if everything is included, then they give an ok and then they send a new tv my way as a replacement. So I would be without a tv for a few days and can only check out the new tv once installed and unpacked.
Ah, I had them replacing my screens only. Not sending me another TV. Anyways, interesting that they would be so quick to admit there is a panel lottery going on and that their confidence is so low. I would try again. A pain but...your paying a lot, they need to get you a good one, whatever it takes.
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post #1953 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post
On another note, LG has agreed to replace my 65C7 for the yellow tint at the left side, but at the same time warned me that newer screens might or might not have this and there's not guarantee a new one will be better. How do you feel about this? Should I swap it? Is this a defect which is uncommon, or can I expect as bad uniformity on a different C7?
It's impossible to say for sure, but it definitely seems that all of the 2017 OLED panels have this to some degree. The variance really seems to be person-to-person, combined with different settings, as well as different environmental factors (see below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
I really think most of these panels have some sort of yellow tint on the left side. So far the four panels I’ve had including the one now had it, but to a much lesser degree. Maybe it’s my mind playing tricks on me, but I’ve noticed the yellow

tint go from bad to worse to almost gone over the days. Last night it was much better to nonexistent which was kind of a surprise since the day before it was bumming me out.
I've observed the same exact behavior on my B7 (August build). I even saw changing results as I ran a cycle of the DNice slides. Starting out, I didn't see it at all on the white/grey slides. After the TV was on for an hour (warmed-up?), I came back and could easily see the yellow on the left. Over in the calibration thread they often talk about how much these panels drift, so this kind of temporal variance totally falls in-line with what their spectrometers see.

If I look carefully enough on a full white slide, I can see it slightly biased yellow -> blue -> green -> yellow -> blue. It's almost as if the problem is that there is simply a RGB uniformity problem when the TV tries to display them all evenly. Running a cooler white point temperature likely hides the problem, since it biases the whole screen towards blue.

Like many others, what I don't understand is how this isn't mentioned in many reviews, like the *many* HDTV test reviews by Vincent Teoh. He mentions it being a problem from 2015 that's solved in 2017, which makes no sense. This review from FlatPanelsHD, however, shows an E7 (see 60 IRE) that looks almost exactly like my B7.

I guess if we're both seeing that it comes and goes that there's a chance it might go away eventually... but I haven't seen any cases of anyone definitively claiming "yep, I used to see yellow tinge and now it's gone permanently!" I'd like to at least *understand what it really is*. Some have claimed it to be the resin attaching the polarized AR filter, but that doesn't really make sense since it seems to go away depending on viewing angle (and is variant, as we both observed). To me, it seems to be some sort of variance going on at the pixel-level.
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post #1954 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:33 AM
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Thanks for your reply, almost 100% my experience. I also have noticed it being different after just starting tv vs having it on for an hour or so. The tinting on the left seems almost non-existant upon start, but gets worse over time the tv is on. It does change dramatically when changing sides. If I view the tv from the left at about 45° angle it's completely gone, but head-on it's visible. Guess I'll live with it then
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post #1955 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:37 AM
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65B7A banding

I'm trying to decide if i should return this one. The 5% gray scale pictures didn't come out well but the 2 jail bars in the middle can be seen in content. They are darker in person. Any input if I should try a warranty repair before packing it back up and just hoping the next one will be better?
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post #1956 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLED65B7A View Post
I'm trying to decide if i should return this one. The 5% gray scale pictures didn't come out well but the 2 jail bars in the middle can be seen in content. They are darker in person. Any input if I should try a warranty repair before packing it back up and just hoping the next one will be better?

if seen in content easy....send it back asap
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post #1957 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post
It's impossible to say for sure, but it definitely seems that all of the 2017 OLED panels have this to some degree. The variance really seems to be person-to-person, combined with different settings, as well as different environmental factors (see below).



I've observed the same exact behavior on my B7 (August build). I even saw changing results as I ran a cycle of the DNice slides. Starting out, I didn't see it at all on the white/grey slides. After the TV was on for an hour (warmed-up?), I came back and could easily see the yellow on the left. Over in the calibration thread they often talk about how much these panels drift, so this kind of temporal variance totally falls in-line with what their spectrometers see.

If I look carefully enough on a full white slide, I can see it slightly biased yellow -> blue -> green -> yellow -> blue. It's almost as if the problem is that there is simply a RGB uniformity problem when the TV tries to display them all evenly. Running a cooler white point temperature likely hides the problem, since it biases the whole screen towards blue.

Like many others, what I don't understand is how this isn't mentioned in many reviews, like the *many* HDTV test reviews by Vincent Teoh. He mentions it being a problem from 2015 that's solved in 2017, which makes no sense. This review from FlatPanelsHD, however, shows an E7 (see 60 IRE) that looks almost exactly like my B7.

I guess if we're both seeing that it comes and goes that there's a chance it might go away eventually... but I haven't seen any cases of anyone definitively claiming "yep, I used to see yellow tinge and now it's gone permanently!" I'd like to at least *understand what it really is*. Some have claimed it to be the resin attaching the polarized AR filter, but that doesn't really make sense since it seems to go away depending on viewing angle (and is variant, as we both observed). To me, it seems to be some sort of variance going on at the pixel-level.
I'm glad others are seeing the same behavior. I have a similar issue with banding. I think if you're lucky enough to have a panel with minor banding like I have on my Sony, it behaves in a similar way. Banding bad or at least as bad as the day I turned it on to wow it looks pretty much clear. This is a day to day issue for me. It must be happening after each auto cycle because on most nights I have the TV on for a min of four hours. It gives me hope that a software update in the future could fix this but I imagine if they could they would have by now.

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post #1958 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
I'm glad others are seeing the same behavior. I have a similar issue with banding. I think if you're lucky enough to have a panel with minor banding like I have on my Sony, it behaves in a similar way. Banding bad or at least as bad as the day I turned it on to wow it looks pretty much clear. This is a day to day issue for me. It must be happening after each auto cycle because on most nights I have the TV on for a min of four hours. It gives me hope that a software update in the future could fix this but I imagine if they could they would have by now.
FWIW, I've seen zero evidence of banding on my August B7. Or rather, I saw it on the first day, but after only one comp cycle it went away ever since (2+ weeks). Been watching a lot of very dark HDR content, like Stranger Things, the Revenant, etc. Only issue here is the yellow tint

EDIT: just to add- I think there's plenty of evidence that banding clears up over time, but not tint. I'm hopeful that I'm wrong, though.

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post #1959 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLED65B7A View Post
I'm trying to decide if i should return this one. The 5% gray scale pictures didn't come out well but the 2 jail bars in the middle can be seen in content. They are darker in person. Any input if I should try a warranty repair before packing it back up and just hoping the next one will be better?
I see it clearly. I can tell you my 2016 C model has none. But it's up to you, if you're satisfied or not. I would not be. If you are not, return it and try again...don't gamble by dealing with LG outside the return window.
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post #1960 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post
On another note, LG has agreed to replace my 65C7 for the yellow tint at the left side, but at the same time warned me that newer screens might or might not have this and there's not guarantee a new one will be better. How do you feel about this? Should I swap it? Is this a defect which is uncommon, or can I expect as bad uniformity on a different C7?
Can i ask what is yellow tent and how it looks like ?
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post #1961 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 07:58 AM
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Here is my 65B7 on 5% grey in ISF Dark. The only bands I've seen in actual content are the two "goalpost" bands in the middle.



I first noticed them watching Stranger Things 2 via the built in Netflix app (those interior low light pans across earth tone walls are a killer). I've since reproduced on other inputs/content as you would expect.

I think I'll be pursuing a replacement with LG but I'm going to wait a few months and see if they mellow out with usage. That should be fun.
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post #1962 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by whforde View Post
Here is my 65B7 on 5% grey in ISF Dark. The only bands I've seen in actual content are the two "goalpost" bands in the middle.



I first noticed them watching Stranger Things 2 via the built in Netflix app (those interior low light pans across earth tone walls are a killer). I've since reproduced on other inputs/content as you would expect.

I think I'll be pursuing a replacement with LG but I'm going to wait a few months and see if they mellow out with usage. That should be fun.
That looks very similar to mine, I saw a large improvement after the first night but those two "goal posts" are what i can see in some content. How many hours do you have on yours? I'm at 25 now and haven't seen any improvement after the first night even with a manual pixel refresh yesterday.
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post #1963 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whforde View Post
Here is my 65B7 on 5% grey in ISF Dark. The only bands I've seen in actual content are the two "goalpost" bands in the middle.



I first noticed them watching Stranger Things 2 via the built in Netflix app (those interior low light pans across earth tone walls are a killer). I've since reproduced on other inputs/content as you would expect.

I think I'll be pursuing a replacement with LG but I'm going to wait a few months and see if they mellow out with usage. That should be fun.
Looks very similar to mine. Every recent post has banding and often a very similar pattern. I realize this is the banding thread and there will always be some degree of banding on 5% gray but I really wonder if anyone has a recently purchased TV that doesn't have obvious banding on any of the known torture material when viewed in a dark room?

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post #1964 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 11:02 AM
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So today i received a replacement for my c7 the first was may build this one is August build lg told me they will send a technician to set it up off course he will come in morning i will give the tv 5 days then test i hope its better than my first one the strange thing for me i didn't see any banding on my first one until i did a manuel PR by mistake i noticed it on netflix logo first the logo with surrounded full black no issues the after the mauel PR banding appeared i will only watch normal content if i didnt see anything am happy with that no tests for me
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post #1965 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 12:13 PM
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Wow, you guys all have nearly infinite patience, compared to myself. I had my 65" B7 for ONE DAY, before returning it, due to color banding (not "goal posts", but yellow indistinct band about 5" wide on the left side, adjacent to a bluish band at the left edge, also about 5" wide. 2 cycles and it didn't change. Returned it. costco folks urged me to try another one. Its too much work with what I suspect will be zero payoff, due to their being a obvious issue with color uniformity. I hope my 55" doesn't begin showing such issues, as now it is gorgeous.

LG OLED55B7 -LG OLED65C8 - Marantz NR1608
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post #1966 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 01:39 PM
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A little background, I got the LG 65B7A delivered on 11/14 (Upgrading from a 2011 panasonic 50" plasma) Clearly, I do not buy TVs frequently. Once I got the LG set up, I had a WTF is that across the top of my screen moment. Ultimately, that led me here. The main thing I noticed was darkening across the top and upper left. I haven't seen it mentioned here before, but on the back of my panel, there are waves in the plastic (1st picture). Anyone else experience this?

The next two pictures I took during the day. You can clearly see the lack of uniformity in the 20% and 5% grey.
The next three pictures were taken on ISF Dark (once I figured out what I was supposed to do) after pixel refresh and running some colored slides for a few hours. Definitely some improvement.

Reading this forum thread is certainly not uplifting. Do people really find the OLED benefits worth the hassle? I do not have the desire or time to play the panel lottery.
I have three questions:
1. What are peoples impression of my slides?
2. Is there a TV out there that people are more satisfied with? For example, may not be as good, but cost savings make it more satisfactory.
3. If I am not planning to buy another TV for 4-5 years, should this be the one I go with? Or, return it and see what next year brings.

Thanks in advance for the input!
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post #1967 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:00 PM
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Question for you guys, does your banding show up in the Amazon or Hulu app backgrounds?
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post #1968 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:02 PM
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Question for you guys, does your banding show up in the Amazon or Hulu app backgrounds?
It did on my first set, as well as on the LG UI with the white/gray squares. I don't see it on the replacement, thankfully.
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post #1969 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:09 PM
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It did on my first set, as well as on the LG UI with the white/gray squares. I don't see it on the replacement, thankfully.
55 or 65?
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55 or 65?
65
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post #1971 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by whforde View Post
Here is my 65B7 on 5% grey in ISF Dark. The only bands I've seen in actual content are the two "goalpost" bands in the middle.



I first noticed them watching Stranger Things 2 via the built in Netflix app (those interior low light pans across earth tone walls are a killer). I've since reproduced on other inputs/content as you would expect.

I think I'll be pursuing a replacement with LG but I'm going to wait a few months and see if they mellow out with usage. That should be fun.
I wouldn't get your hopes up for any improvement on those bars. That looks just like my first set. here are 2 photos of it, the first taken after a few hours of use, the 2nd after a few hundred hours, just before it was replaced. 3rd photo is of the replacement.
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post #1972 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenesisD View Post
I wouldn't get your hopes up for any improvement on those bars. That looks just like my first set. here are 2 photos of it, the first taken after a few hours of use, the 2nd after a few hundred hours, just before it was replaced. 3rd photo is of the replacement.
Wow your second set looks great. I don’t see many pics of sets like that. I really wonder if that is the exception or it’s more common and we are only seeing the problems posted here. Gives me a little hope and that I should continue to push LG to swap my panel. I’m outside an exchange window and didnt want to ship it back anyway. What month is your current TV?

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post #1973 of 8468 Old 11-16-2017, 07:51 PM
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Wow your second set looks great. I don’t see many pics of sets like that. I really wonder if that is the exception or it’s more common and we are only seeing the problems posted here. Gives me a little hope and that I should continue to push LG to swap my panel. I’m outside an exchange window and didnt want to ship it back anyway. What month is your current TV?
Current TV is October and the old one was July.
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Originally Posted by kgman7 View Post
A little background, I got the LG 65B7A delivered on 11/14 (Upgrading from a 2011 panasonic 50" plasma) Clearly, I do not buy TVs frequently. Once I got the LG set up, I had a WTF is that across the top of my screen moment. Ultimately, that led me here. The main thing I noticed was darkening across the top and upper left. I haven't seen it mentioned here before, but on the back of my panel, there are waves in the plastic (1st picture). Anyone else experience this?

The next two pictures I took during the day. You can clearly see the lack of uniformity in the 20% and 5% grey.
The next three pictures were taken on ISF Dark (once I figured out what I was supposed to do) after pixel refresh and running some colored slides for a few hours. Definitely some improvement.

Reading this forum thread is certainly not uplifting. Do people really find the OLED benefits worth the hassle? I do not have the desire or time to play the panel lottery.
I have three questions:
1. What are peoples impression of my slides?
2. Is there a TV out there that people are more satisfied with? For example, may not be as good, but cost savings make it more satisfactory.
3. If I am not planning to buy another TV for 4-5 years, should this be the one I go with? Or, return it and see what next year brings.

Thanks in advance for the input!
Not sure whey the images didnt attach.
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post #1975 of 8468 Old 11-17-2017, 03:50 AM
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Hi, everyone


Please advise; I'm attaching two pictures of my LG OLED55B7V, displaying a 5% gray slide, one in ISF Dark Room mode and the other in ISF Bright.

I guess the banding isn't that bad, although somewhat noticeable with more demanding content and panning shots. The uniformity, however, seems atrocious.

Your thoughts?


Thanks in advance,

Ricardo
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post #1976 of 8468 Old 11-17-2017, 06:01 AM
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Not sure whey the images didnt attach.
The plastic on the back of the panel is supposed to be peeled off so I wouldn't worry about that. But whatever is happening at the top of your screen doesn't look normal to me. It's possibly faulty.
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post #1977 of 8468 Old 11-17-2017, 06:49 AM
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Not sure whey the images didnt attach.
Those look pretty good actually, except for the top portion of the screen. There is a weird pattern going on there that doesn't look like banding.

Have you run a pixel refresh yet? I've tried 2 different OLED sets, and the first pixel refresh cycle made a massive difference on both. It may clear up that weird top portion. I have however seen a few posts that claim the pixel refresher actually makes it worse... so I guess YMMV.

As far as OLEDs being worth it... if uniformity wasn't and issue, then obviously yeah they would totally be worth it. This may sound a bit negative and many people will disagree, but I think as long as these uniformity issues exist, OLED is just simply not worth it. It's absolutely 100% absurd that we are even talking about banding and vignetting on 'one of the best TVs ever made'.

OLEDs do still have an amazing picture, and if you go with a different panel, screen uniformity will still be an issue. With OLED, you are still getting a better picture by spending the extra money, but that extra cost unfortunately doesn't get you a perfect uniform panel on top of that.

EDIT:
Also, this is very wishful thinking, but maybe there will be some firmware update that will actually fix the banding issues. After reading all the different comments about pixel refresh, I think we can make the confirmation that it does affect the overall screen uniformity (for better or for worse). This makes me think that there is some sort of issue with software and not the actual panel itself. VidPro comments on this in an earlier post.
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Last edited by reasoner512; 11-17-2017 at 07:40 AM.
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post #1978 of 8468 Old 11-17-2017, 06:55 AM
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Hey all please does anyone have a c7 August build ?
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post #1979 of 8468 Old 11-17-2017, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reasoner512 View Post
Those look pretty good actually, except for the top portion of the screen. There is a weird pattern going on there that doesn't look like banding.

Have you run a pixel refresh yet? I've tried 2 different OLED sets, and the first pixel refresh cycle made a massive difference on both. It may clear up that weird top portion. I have however seen a few posts that claim the pixel refresher actually makes it worse... so I guess YMMV.
Thanks for the input. Yes, I did a pixel refresh after taking the initial pictures. You can see that the 20% grey improved significantly. I do not think the 5% improved much.
I did not realize there was plastic on the back. However, I took a better picture after removing it and the waves/bubbles are more noticeable; basically in two the row. The top row seems to align with that weird stuff that not really banding going across.

Thoughts?
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post #1980 of 8468 Old 11-17-2017, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reasoner512 View Post
Those look pretty good actually, except for the top portion of the screen. There is a weird pattern going on there that doesn't look like banding.
EDIT:
Also, this is very wishful thinking, but maybe there will be some firmware update that will actually fix the banding issues. After reading all the different comments about pixel refresh, I think we can make the confirmation that it does affect the overall screen uniformity (for better or for worse). This makes me think that there is some sort of issue with software and not the actual panel itself. VidPro comments on this in an earlier post.
While I would love for this to be true I highly doubt this could be mitigated by firmware updates. I don't pretend to know the details of OLED manufacturing but it really seems to be something with how these panels are manufactured. All OLEDS have banding and there appears to be a large spectrum of how significant. Yes pixel refreshes and usage can slightly effect banding but it really seems to be some intrinsic issue with the panels.

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burn-in , compensation , correction , oled , uniformity

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