Warning to all current, future OLED TV Owners - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 798 Old 12-25-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy1 View Post
I think what all current and prospective owners need to keep in mind is that burn-in is a condition that OLED displays are prone to...as far as I can tell from conversations I've had with manufacturers, there is no reliable way to predict which percentage of panels will get it or when (or if) it will happen. Obviously, more research needs to be done.
IOW's these are not (or should of been) ready for 'prime time'.
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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #362 of 798 Old 12-25-2017, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
If you take the right precautions you wont get BI,it seems that this reports comes from previous LCD owners.

You will rarely see a previous plasma owner that now own an Oled ,complaining.


I have owned plasmas since 2007 and never experienced a single burn in.
I still own a plasma, but have burn in on my 2016 C6P, from using it no different than my kuro I have had for 10 years, so your experience is different from mine and others. Thanks

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post #363 of 798 Old 12-25-2017, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by g4sho View Post
I still own a plasma, but have burn in on my 2016 C6P, from using it no different than my kuro I have had for 10 years, so your experience is different from mine and others. Thanks
My experience is the same as the thousands of Oled owners that replaced their plasma to Oled. In 2015 LG sold aound 300,000+ units and their goal in 2016 was to sell around 900,000 units.

https://www.strata-gee.com/lg-says-o...s-triple-2016/




If burn in was a real huge issue then why there are so many happy owners? Sorry that your panel got BI but you shouldn't develop BI by displaying static elements for few hours.
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Last edited by losservatore; 12-25-2017 at 11:08 PM.
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post #364 of 798 Old 12-26-2017, 08:29 AM
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People complained the moment channels started those "logos" in the corner. In the modern era of cable and satellite TV boxes, they are completely and utter REDUNDANT as the info button will tell you what channel you're on and it shows it when you move up/down as well as there being a channel guide. Whatever purpose they originally had, they are PURELY to pump up the egos of the network's overlords, NOTHING ELSE.
I suspect the logos are there for copyright purposes more-so than informational purposes. If you want to "tape" a broadcast/cable show or movie, it will be permanently "water-marked" with a logo that can be used to help track back the source. No logo? It was probably ripped from a disc.
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post #365 of 798 Old 12-26-2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
My experience is the same as the thousands of Oled owners that replaced their plasma to Oled. In 2015 LG sold aound 300,000+ units and their goal in 2016 was to sell around 900,000 units.

https://www.strata-gee.com/lg-says-o...s-triple-2016/




If burn in was a real huge issue then why there are so many happy owners? Sorry that your panel got BI but you shouldn't develop BI by displaying static elements for few hours.
I was one of those happy owners too, until it happened. Anyway, lesson learned. Oled tech, is not plasma, the tech it was suppose to replace. And just like plasma was in its early days, it is a risk(buyers beware), but by the time the kuro hit the market, it was a non issue(burn in). So I hope you stay a happy camper, does not change my or others situation, but I understand that is not your concern, so no problem.
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post #366 of 798 Old 12-26-2017, 07:23 PM
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There is plenty of evidence that Oled are less susceptible of Burn In or image retention than plasma. Just drive a plasma like an Oled and you will see.
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post #367 of 798 Old 12-26-2017, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JonW747 View Post
I suspect the logos are there for copyright purposes more-so than informational purposes. If you want to "tape" a broadcast/cable show or movie, it will be permanently "water-marked" with a logo that can be used to help track back the source. No logo? It was probably ripped from a disc.
Well, even if that's true, they could just show the logo for a few seconds every ten minutes or whatever (which would "ruin" the look of the copy). They don't need it on there constantly and it doesn't need to be bright white.
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post #368 of 798 Old 12-26-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
There is plenty of evidence that Oled are less susceptible of Burn In or image retention than plasma. Just drive a plasma like an Oled and you will see.
I believe this to be true.
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post #369 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
If burn in was a real huge issue then why there are so many happy owners? Sorry that your panel got BI but you shouldn't develop BI by displaying static elements for few hours.
Isn't that obvious? The people with burn-in were happy too, until they weren't. We've had several people on these OLED threads who were attacking the people with BI and dismissing the issue until they themselves developed burn-in and were forced to eat crow. It's never a real issue until it happens to you - unfortunate side of human nature.
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post #370 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Well, even if that's true, they could just show the logo for a few seconds every ten minutes or whatever (which would "ruin" the look of the copy). They don't need it on there constantly and it doesn't need to be bright white.
People will rip segments of a show, though. For instance, consider how much easier it would be to scan videos on YouTube to search for unauthorized copying with the logo there.

Anyway, it's not our job to come up with the answer - but surely there's something better than what they're doing now.
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post #371 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 01:11 PM
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It doesn't have anything to do with copyright concerns and is 100% about branding, visibility, and advertising. The only thing the logo in the corner would tell them is that the content was ripped from cable or one of the cable distribution feeds which doesn't really help them track down a source at all. Not that it matters on something like youtube since the content is identified via signature of the audio and video itself and taken down automatically.

For example, Syfy addresses the logo on their website.

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Can you get rid of that little logo in the corner?

No, but we try to make it as unobtrusive as possible. We want viewers to know where we are and who we are. If you've ever tried to watch cable in another town and have struggled to find your favorite channels, you know how important this feature is.
Channels want you to identify with their brand so they are going to stick your nose it in as much as they can. They don't want you to think of "The Expanse" they want to you think of "The Syfy Original, The Expanse." It's a dying dinosaur industry that refuses to realize that content is king and people don't care where they are consuming it. Since they're already there, might as well throw in a suggested hashtag to get people to advertise for them and maybe suggest a few other shows for people to watch! Eyeballs eyeballs eyeballs, never mind the fact that the vast majority of the audience didn't STUMBLE upon the channel, they made a specific choice to schedule a recording or watch an OnDemand entry.

If studios could get away with putting a "Fox" or "WB" logo in the corner of every movie you watch, they would in a heartbeat. Brand brand brand. The content you are watching is only secondary to getting you to buy into the brand.
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post #372 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 01:17 PM
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Logoaway is a thing and I have a logoaway function built into my media player. It semi-intelligently fills up the logo by stretching the surrounding content across it.

If you want to identify the source of rips, you use invisible digital watermarking. It survives transcoding, there's no watermark-away, and it can be personalized down to a specific customer. Didn't stop the pirates, but it works.

Logos are just ads for the channel.
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post #373 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 01:29 PM
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We have members with thousands of hours on their display without an issue ,Also the BI reports are mainly on those that watch a lot of news. Since I don't watch a lot of news or play video games ,I feel completely safe.

I'm pretty sure that LG will come up with something better to prevent burn in on static elements.

Also some LCD fans are jumping into the BI debate,which makes so difficult for an Oled owner with no burn in to not make any comment in defense.It reminds me of the LCD vs Plasma days.The war of transmissible vs emissive hasn't ended.


by the way if true emmisive Qled or emissive micro LED come out and outperform Oled, I'm perfectly fine to replace the Oled... But I wont be replacing to LCD, that tech have issues that I can't live with.

Last edited by losservatore; 12-28-2017 at 02:39 AM.
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post #374 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 01:35 PM
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The non-geospecific logos on Hulu that you get with Roku are the way to go if a logo is a must from a branding perspective. They are small, tucked into the corner, and 25%-30% opacity grey. They pose virtually no burn-in risk at all and can be easily tuned out when you are engrossed in content. They are the tasteful way to go if network bugs are absolutely needed.

Anything white (even 50% opacity) and colored of any kind needs to die in a fire. It's distracting, it actively takes away from the enjoyment of the content and can pose a risk on any emissive display and can even show up on IPS LCDs as well.
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post #375 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 01:56 PM
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Maybe TV sets should have put a separate "banner" section above the main screen TV (dot matrix; whatever) that would let channels identify their channel in that space instead of in the damn picture. Then they could shove their brand in your face 24/7 without interfering with the main show and potentially causing burn-in, etc. (I certainly always thought such a thing would be a good idea on some of these set top boxes themselves, particularly for MUSIC, like say the front panel of an AppleTV or FireTV. Then you could have the Artist/Album/Song Name appear without having to turn the darn TV on or look at an iPhone or whatever). I just find banners/logos annoying as hell, personally, especially those animated "pop-up" ads for the next upcoming show taking up 1/4 the screen on the bottom. WTF am I paying for cable for if I have to put up with the content having ads DURING the show???

This is also one of the reasons I refused to subscribe to HULU. I don't want ADS *PERIOD*. Netflix has always had ZERO ads. Now you can get Hulu without ads, just pay them even MORE money.... But it'll never be enough. Worse yet, TV shows disappear from one site and move to another. Don't have Disney streaming too? Too bad. Put out some MORE money. Wait until the new OTA standard is out. It's not longer mandated to be FREE. You won't be able to tune in anything anymore for free, with or without ads in the US. SUCKERS.
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post #376 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 02:09 PM
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[QUOTE=bobdevellis;55356068]Well, an update, and it isn't pretty.

LG told me I was out of warranty, which I kind of knew but thought I'd t least see if they would stand behind their product.

The on to Square Trade, who told me that since LG doesn't cover burn in and since their warranty is just an extension of what LG covers, then they don't cover it either. So, I'm S. O. L. on a 5-grand TV that I've used completely normally and tht developed an issue through no fault of mine and that I now have to live with in perpetuity.

If anyone has any suggestions or has found any way to get either LG or Square Trade to behave more reasonably regarding this, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I/QUOTE]

I'm late with this suggestion but did you buy with a credit card? Some cards will automatically extend warranty by one year.

I had a Samsung tablet with a dead USB port and AMEX refunded the entire purchase amount with no fuss. Granted it was $400, not $5000, but worth a shot.
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post #377 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JonW747 View Post
People will rip segments of a show, though. For instance, consider how much easier it would be to scan videos on YouTube to search for unauthorized copying with the logo there.

Anyway, it's not our job to come up with the answer - but surely there's something better than what they're doing now.
It's not for copyright. Its advertisement.
A person can buy bluray of a show and put that on the internet for the masses. It has no logos that way.
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post #378 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 05:27 PM
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Isn't that obvious? The people with burn-in were happy too, until they weren't. We've had several people on these OLED threads who were attacking the people with BI and dismissing the issue until they themselves developed burn-in and were forced to eat crow. It's never a real issue until it happens to you - unfortunate side of human nature.
People also need to keep in mind that plasma's burn-in sensitivity varied greatly between models and brands. The Kuro's were extremely resistant to permanent burn-in, although there were a few confirmed cases here or there. The Panasonics seem to vary per generation, with their final generation actually being one of the worst for BI. Later Samsung generations, especially their f8500, seemed to have the issue under control for the most part.

Different manufacturers used different technology to drive their plasmas, which largely played a role in their BI problems or lack thereof. With OLED it's different. All panels are using LG's technology. Software might be different, but it's still an LG panel, so we really have no alternatives. So sadly, it's really up to LG to figure out how to solve this problem.
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post #379 of 798 Old 12-27-2017, 05:31 PM
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It's not for copyright. Its advertisement.
A person can buy bluray of a show and put that on the internet for the masses. It has no logos that way.
Only if it's a program that's out on Blu-Ray/DVD ...
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post #380 of 798 Old 12-28-2017, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
We have members with thousands of hours on their display without an issue ,Also the BI reports are mainly on those that watch a lot of news. Since I don't watch a lot of news or play video games ,I feel completely safe.

I'm pretty sure that LG will come up with something better to prevent burn in on static elements.

Also some LCD fans are jumping into the BI debate,which makes so difficult for an Oled owner with no burn in to not make any comment in defense.It reminds me of the LCD vs Plasma days.The war of transmissible vs emissive hasn't ended.


by the way if true emmisive Qled or emissive micro LED come out and outperform Oled, I'm perfectly fine to replace the Oled... But I wont be replacing to LCD, that tech have issues that I can't live with.
Most of us are safe from BI concerns. And yes, the emissive versus LCD thing seems to to always be in full swing, doesn’t it? Here we go again. It’s really silly though. Why do random people care what kind of TV some other random guy buys? It’s so hard to get useful information without it being loaded with dramatic FUD. Just like Plasma. Whatever. Alls we can do is stay true and play nicely.

OLED really needs its own subforum though. That would take care of many of the thread-crapping issues that we see.

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post #381 of 798 Old 12-29-2017, 12:26 PM
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The reports of burn-in from games have been few. We've been gaming about 50% of the time recently (Horizon Zero Dawn) and these threads got me concerned, but no signs of burn-in yet.

I believe the primary reason is that cunulative hours spent on any specific game is quite a bit less than it dan be with a channel like CNN or CNBC. Also game makers may be more sensitive to the impact of static elements on dispkays than cable news channels are - the static elemets of HZD tend to be less than fully saturated, and with that, the white subpixel will significantly reduce the intensity of the colored subpixels.

But mist importantly, new games cone out, we get bored and move on.

If an OLED has 2000 hours on it with over 20% of that use on a specific game, that translates to over 400 hours playing the exact same game.

Not sayibg it's impossible, just saying 20%+ use month after month after mobth of the exact same game seems to be less lkely than 20%+ use of your favorite news channel mobth after month after month (and even year after year ).
I game a it with my A1E, no issues so far, however I do configure games to minimize or eliminate HUD when not a must, Horizon Zero for example is a great example that benefits from non HUD... I’m trying to not contribute to the issue until proven zero risk.

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post #382 of 798 Old 12-29-2017, 01:50 PM
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Most of us are safe from BI concerns.
Conjecture.

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And yes, the emissive versus LCD thing seems to to always be in full swing, doesn’t it? Here we go again.
I didn't notice any such thing in this thread beyond people pointing out the differences and reasons OLED have burn-in issues while most regular LCD (including LED LCD) do NOT.

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It’s really silly though. Why do random people care what kind of TV some other random guy buys?
I have no idea what you're talking about. I and some other family members were looking at buying an OLED for a primary (them) and me (secondary) room. I started reading this thread for that reason. This thread convinced me OLED is simply not for me at this point in time. I have too many things that are displayed too often (e.g. KODI and Amazon Prime menus on FireTV 4K) and news networks my mother watches hours at a time when she visits).

I simply would be incensed beyond description if I bought a $3K-5K TV set only to find permanent logos or menu items burned into the screen in less than a year as some have reported in this thread. I took a chance with a plasma for a secondary room because I got it for $499 on sale at the time (it's now over 6 years old and has no burn-in what-so-ever despite the above use).

IF I could trust OLED to be no worse than that, I would consider it, but at least some people have gotten displays that have gone bad in far less time showing similar content as it's apparently not how long it's displayed at a time, but the same data appearing over long periods of short term views as well. That means I could expect to see a KODI menu burned-in a year or two from now since it's up there quite a LOT. I have gotten plenty of image retention of menus, but never burn-in.

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It’s so hard to get useful information without it being loaded with dramatic FUD. Just like Plasma.
Whatever. Alls we can do is stay true and play nicely.
So one person's ruined display with what they consider "normal" use is your idea of FUD? Whatever is right. Even if it's just a defect run of certain displays and not present in "all" OLED panels, that's a hell of a chance to take on multi-kilobuck displays, IMO. Your mileage may vary. After all, that IS the title of this particular thread, is it not? This isn't the thread on "How AWESOME is OLED," after all.

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OLED really needs its own subforum though. That would take care of many of the thread-crapping issues that we see.
I don't see any "thread crapping" in a thread that is ABOUT burn-in. You must be thinking of some other thread.
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post #383 of 798 Old 12-29-2017, 05:05 PM
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Plasma BI is different than OLED, plasma take lot of abuse before BI and it could be reversed watching other channels, my experience owning three Panasonic plasmas, where as in OLED which people have experience BI are under a year old sets watching may be few hours of news channels, which to me is not abuse. people who have not experienced it yet are one mostly with in a year and not watch ESPN or other new channels a lot but Rtings has shown that BI can be real in OLED and could be experienced a lot quicker than plasma panel (not mentioned by rtings but the hours after which it started in OLED is far worse than plasma so it is my assertion).
my point is I would have not spend $3K + on OLED on what is know now about BI, I could have gone for FALD LED panel or looked at Z series Sony LED Sets. sooner or later some will be taking LG to court on this, all LG's advertising material says otherwise about BI.

I have not experienced BI on my set but I am avoiding news channels and channels with prominent logos, it killed my care free tv watching experience though.

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post #384 of 798 Old 12-29-2017, 05:30 PM
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Plasma BI is different than OLED, plasma take lot of abuse before BI and it could be reversed watching other channels, my experience owning three Panasonic plasmas, where as in OLED which people have experience BI are under a year old sets watching may be few hours of news channels, which to me is not abuse. people who have not experienced it yet are one mostly with in a year and not watch ESPN or other new channels a lot but Rtings has shown that BI can be real in OLED and could be experienced a lot quicker than plasma panel (not mentioned by rtings but the hours after which it started in OLED is far worse than plasma so it is my assertion).
my point is I would have not spend $3K + on OLED on what is know now about BI, I could have gone for FALD LED panel or looked at Z series Sony LED Sets. sooner or later some will be taking LG to court on this, all LG's advertising material says otherwise about BI.

I have not experienced BI on my set but I am avoiding news channels and channels with prominent logos, it killed my care free tv watching experience though.
Honestly if you have to modify the way you watch TV to even have this set is it worth having? I just bit the bullet and bought an extended warranty from Best Buy and I'll watch TV how I normally watch it and if I get burn-in in a few years Best Buy can replace my TV with a better one.

I'm not gonna baby this thing. It's just not worth it to me.
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post #385 of 798 Old 12-29-2017, 05:42 PM
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Honestly if you have to modify the way you watch TV to even have this set is it worth having? I just bit the bullet and bought an extended warranty from Best Buy and I'll watch TV how I normally watch it and if I get burn-in in a few years Best Buy can replace my TV with a better one.

I'm not gonna baby this thing. It's just not worth it to me.
I would have bought warranty from Best Buy if I knew BI could be an issue, I got Square trade warranty for other panel issues or defect. as I mentioned I could've gone for FALD set instead or SONY Z series.

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post #386 of 798 Old 12-29-2017, 07:38 PM
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Does a Best Buy warranty even cover burn-in? I'd make doubly sure. It's may not be treated as a "normal wear" kind of thing. I know with clutches on cars, they usually do NOT cover them ("wear item") even when there's a user known defect; they simply won't acknowledge it and blame it on the consumer (see Subaru WRX clutch issue elsewhere).

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post #387 of 798 Old 12-30-2017, 03:39 AM
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Does a Best Buy warranty even cover burn-in? I'd make doubly sure. It's may not be treated as a "normal wear" kind of thing. I know with clutches on cars, they usually do NOT cover them ("wear item") even when there's a user known defect; they simply won't acknowledge it and blame it on the consumer (see Subaru WRX clutch issue elsewhere).
It explicitly says it covers burn-in. I bet over the years that changes though when they get a rash of claims for it. I paid $300 for a 5 year warranty. Given the complaints I see about burn-in seems like a sure thing.
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post #388 of 798 Old 12-30-2017, 05:01 AM
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It explicitly says it covers burn-in. I bet over the years that changes though when they get a rash of claims for it. I paid $300 for a 5 year warranty. Given the complaints I see about burn-in seems like a sure thing.
A "sure thing" to get burn in? Yeah, OK. This is the kind of stuff we are referring to when we say FUD and overly dramatic nonsense. But, whatever. Those that fear it should just get an LCD and have fun with it. The complaints are from a very small minority of users with some specific use cases that involve particular channels and longer term viewing of said channels at settings that can NOT be verified since we aren’t there to confirm it. But , sure, take that "data" and it’s *reasonable* to conclude that everyone with an OLED will get burn in. Uh huh.

My goodness. A sure thing.... I have a year of heavy use on my set. When should I expect to see my burn in? Any week now, I’d think. Right?
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post #389 of 798 Old 12-30-2017, 07:04 AM
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Look, no one, not anyone in this forum, can control the network logos and you can't turn them off ether. I also cant control the big nasty 'speaker with a X' icon that my Denon throws up on the screen in a very static way when i mute the TV.

LG knows it can be an issue but from their site: (in my best burn in color font)





OLED Image Retention or Burn-In: Burn-in and image retention are possible on virtually any display. However, with an LG OLED TV, any risk of burn-in or image retention have been addressed through the use of technology that not only helps protect against damage to the screen, but features self-healing properties so that any short-term image retention that may occur is quickly rectified. It is rare for an average TV consumer to create an environment that could result in burn-in. Most cases of burn-in in televisions is a result of static images or on-screen elements displaying on the screen uninterrupted for many hours or days at a time – with brightness typically at peak levels. So it is possible to create burn-in in almost any display if one really tries hard enough. And even if burn-in does occur from extreme usage, it can usually be mitigated within a short period of time by turning the display off for a while, and watching a few hours of varying content (such as your standard TV watching and channel-surfing).

Additionally, LG OLED TVs come with special features and settings to preserve image quality and prevent burn in and image retention. First, there is a screen saver feature that will turn on automatically if the TV detects that a static image is displayed on screen after approximately two minutes. There are also two options – available in the Picture Mode Settings within the Smart Picture menu – that can be used to preserve image quality. The first of these is the Clear Panel Noise feature that preserves the quality of the image on the display panel by resetting the TV so that it clears the pixels. This feature can be turned on when needed within the settings mentioned above. The second feature which is automatically employed is the Screen Shift feature which moves the screen slightly at regular intervals to preserve image quality.
So in short: Reasonable, responsible usage of an OLED TV, combined with powerful image preservation abilities should result in a seamless home entertainment experience.
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post #390 of 798 Old 12-30-2017, 09:21 AM
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A "sure thing" to get burn in? Yeah, OK. This is the kind of stuff we are referring to when we say FUD and overly dramatic nonsense. But, whatever. Those that fear it should just get an LCD and have fun with it. The complaints are from a very small minority of users with some specific use cases that involve particular channels and longer term viewing of said channels at settings that can NOT be verified since we aren’t there to confirm it. But , sure, take that "data" and it’s *reasonable* to conclude that everyone with an OLED will get burn in. Uh huh.

My goodness. A sure thing.... I have a year of heavy use on my set. When should I expect to see my burn in? Any week now, I’d think. Right?
Suggest you go back and read the first post in this thread. My B6 CANNOT be used as a "TV" nor can it tolerate 30% usage watching news channels, regardless of the frequency of commercial interruptions. My BI was noticed due to this warning after ~ 2,000 hours and my BI is from "DOW" and "Market Alert" on FBN.

THANKS TO THIS THREAD I CAUGHT IT BEFORE IT COULD BECOME WORSE. My B6 was bought to replace a living room TV, a Toshiba CFL which has no FBN BI after 50,000+ hours although it has some DSE from age, etc.

My B6 did not come with a sticker which says, "AVOID NEWS CHANNELS". It is my practice to watch the market while I work in the AM and at the market close. Had I known any of this, might have bought a Z9(?) or similar.

If there is a class action lawsuit, I'd like a new panel although this one is otherwise decent. The BI is not noticeable in most content at 8' - 9' although quite obvious on a golf course at 3'. All this could have been avoided with a warning. Currently I just listen with the screen off, and if I actually need to SEE what's on the program, I can watch on the now bedroom Toshiba.

Anyway..., seems to me you incessantly ignore the whole point of this thread. Your defense of OLED is boring. Whether YOU will get BI remains to be seen and is irrelevant to the warning of this thread. HOWEVER, if you take to watching any of the documentary stations, e.g. Travel Channel, Smithsonian, et al., these now have static red or yellow logo elements..., so in this case too..., your days may be numbered. (No clue how/if white logo elements will eventually produce BI.)

Of course, my B6 has great blacks and contrast. Is THAT just for movie-watchers? I think not.
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