Warning to all current, future OLED TV Owners - Page 27 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #781 of 807 Old 07-13-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Hmmm. I think I get what you’re saying here. As for me, I did mean that some people got burn in from using the TV very normally as in not edge cases or heavy CNN content. I believe this number is very small for sure though. This cumulative thing is hard to figure. We have watched two full seasons of NHL playoff hockey and plenty of football too. Those event always have static logos and such although during breaks they go away. No signs of any issues on my set. We also watch a ton of movies and A good amount of TV shows. No cable news though, why bother with that crap?

If there is no panel to panel variation then the only explanation is that we are simply ALL going to get burn in eventually or those that did get it are lying about their use cases and have abused the TV or watched too much logo heavy content. Right? So that means I’m going to get burn in regardless of what I watch or do? I hope not. Or, maybe I’ll have moved on by then to a new set.
It's hard but not that hard.

Take whatever static element you are concerned about (ie: NHL Playoff Logo). Estimate how many hours it is displayed in an hour (ideally, get the stopwatch on your phone out one evening and start and stop a timer so your estimate can be accurate).

Estimate how many hours per season/year you watch of that content.

Now you know about how many years it will take you to watch a cumulative 100 hours of hat static element.

From there, it gets a bit trickier because peak luminance / OLED Light comes into play.

If you happen to have your peak illuminance calibrated to 175 cd/m2, like the 2016 rtings.com test: https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/perm...rn-in-lcd-oled

Then it's easy to be quantitative: by week 4, signs of burn-in are clearly visible, meaning 4x7x20=560 cumulative hours. Very mild signs of burn in on red are also vidible by week 3, corresponding to 420 hours. So lets say 500 cumulative hours at 175cd/m2 of bright fully-saturated red will cause burn in on a 2016 WOLED.

Take 500 hours, devide by your estimated bright red logo cumulative hours per year and you get how many years it will take that viewing behavior to cause burn in.

Green and blue burn-in more slowly than red, so you need to find how many weeks caused the burn-in level that concers you for thise colors on the rtings test and adjust accordingly.

And time is roughly linear in peak intensity, so at 350 cd/m2 (OLED Light = 100) red could develop the week 4 level of burn-in by week 2 or 280 hours while at peak intensity of 130 cd/m2 (OLED Light ~25), the week 4 level of burn-in should not develop until over 700 cumulative hours.

In my case, the red Netflix startup logo is one of the static elements I am concerned about. It may be displayed for 10 seconds whenever we turn on Netflix, which averages less than once oer day. So less than 3650 seconds or ~1 hour per year.

I have my OLED Light at 40 meaning well over 500 cumulative hours before I need to be concerned with burn-in. So we can watch Netflix like this for 500 years before we have anything to worry about .

I doubt the NHL playoffs are anything to worry about, but the entire hockey season might be.

For example, if you watch each and every game of your favorite baseball team and they have a bright red, fully-saturated logo, that translates to alot of cumulative hours per year:

162 games X 2.87 hours / game X ~75% static element display (accounting for adds) = ~350 hours per year.

At 175 cd/m2 peak levels, you should develop first signs of red before 2 seasons are over.

Any static elements that have two positions for 'Home' and 'Away' would halve the cumulative hours per year and so would extend the time to visible burn-in to just over 3 completed seasons.

And if you watch at OLED Light 100, it would halve the cumulative hours needed for first signs of burn in, so even a 50%/50% Home/Away rectangle should demonstrate first signs of burn-in before 2 seasons are completed...
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post #782 of 807 Old 07-13-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Hmmm. I think I get what you’re saying here. As for me, I did mean that some people got burn in from using the TV very normally as in not edge cases or heavy CNN content. I believe this number is very small for sure though. This cumulative thing is hard to figure. We have watched two full seasons of NHL playoff hockey and plenty of football too. Those event always have static logos and such although during breaks they go away. No signs of any issues on my set. We also watch a ton of movies and A good amount of TV shows. No cable news though, why bother with that crap?

If there is no panel to panel variation then the only explanation is that we are simply ALL going to get burn in eventually or those that did get it are lying about their use cases and have abused the TV or watched too much logo heavy content. Right? So that means I’m going to get burn in regardless of what I watch or do? I hope not. Or, maybe I’ll have moved on by then to a new set.
Imo all that we really have here is theory🙂 However you make an excellent point, either some folks are lying or their exaggerating their usage to skew it one way or another. I dont believe that cumulative usage will contribute to it simply because if we were to do the math on here then most if not everyone would have BI, and their are still plenty if owners from when the first oleds came out. In my case I've watched plenty of logo heavy content on my e6 which now belongs to my son...who btw games heavily, still no sign of it. In the end no one on here can really prove whether its panel to panel, or cumulative...we just dont know...one good preventive measure is still to Vary Your Content, no one can disprove that.

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post #783 of 807 Old 07-13-2018, 09:25 PM
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Imo all that we really have here is theory🙂 However you make an excellent point, either some folks are lying or their exaggerating their usage to skew it one way or another. I dont believe that cumulative usage will contribute to it simply because if we were to do the math on here then most if not everyone would have BI, and their are still plenty if owners from when the first oleds came out. In my case I've watched plenty of logo heavy content on my e6 which now belongs to my son...who btw games heavily, still no sign of it. In the end no one on here can really prove whether its panel to panel, or cumulative...we just dont know...one good preventive measure is still to Vary Your Content, no one can disprove that.
Yeah, I’m just tired of worrying about it. I went through the SAME exact thing with my KURO and Samsung plasmas and of course never had any BI issues whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I have to just do the "bury the head in the sand thing" here and just enjoy the amazing PQ that my set provides.
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post #784 of 807 Old 07-16-2018, 06:41 PM
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Has anyone here experienced any burn-in for the red ESPN logo and its ticker? I mainly watch sports.
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post #785 of 807 Old 07-19-2018, 11:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Yeah, I’m just tired of worrying about it. I went through the SAME exact thing with my KURO and Samsung plasmas and of course never had any BI issues whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I have to just do the "bury the head in the sand thing" here and just enjoy the amazing PQ that my set provides.

Once upon a time the netflix login profile screen used to hang around forever. Is that still the case? It seems to me that Roku at least was able to force it to the main screen, and then turn off the TV when nothing goes on for too long, but I'm really not sure.
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post #786 of 807 Old 07-19-2018, 12:05 PM
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Once upon a time the netflix login profile screen used to hang around forever. Is that still the case? It seems to me that Roku at least was able to force it to the main screen, and then turn off the TV when nothing goes on for too long, but I'm really not sure.
Hmmm - not sure on this but I do know that my TV is set to go into screen saver mode after 5 mins of inactivity and it seems to work as intended. I also tend to be more anal and never leave it sitting at screens for long. Just habits from the plasma days I guess. Like if we pause a movie, it will kick into SS mode after 5 mins. Seems to with most paused or stopped stuff that I can see.

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post #787 of 807 Old 07-26-2018, 02:48 PM
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Probably already been covered by someone by this point, but I found it a bit odd that someone who is commenting on the B6 specifically would suggest using Youtube, or some other method to display full screen red when that very feature is baked into the TV already. You can view full screen red, blue or green in the Expert options. I don't know of the feature was kept in the 2017 and 2018 models, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't.
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post #788 of 807 Old 07-29-2018, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Yeah, I’m just tired of worrying about it. I went through the SAME exact thing with my KURO and Samsung plasmas and of course never had any BI issues whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I have to just do the "bury the head in the sand thing" here and just enjoy the amazing PQ that my set provides.
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Hmmm - not sure on this but I do know that my TV is set to go into screen saver mode after 5 mins of inactivity and it seems to work as intended. I also tend to be more anal and never leave it sitting at screens for long. Just habits from the plasma days I guess. Like if we pause a movie, it will kick into SS mode after 5 mins. Seems to with most paused or stopped stuff that I can see.

Maybe the reason you never had any BI issues with your plasmas is precisely because you DID "worry about it" (by doing things like not sitting on screens for too long or breaking them in with slides, as you've mentioned numerous times).

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post #789 of 807 Old 07-29-2018, 08:30 AM
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Maybe the reason you never had any BI issues with your plasmas is precisely because you DID "worry about it" (by doing things like not sitting on screens for too long or breaking them in with slides, as you've mentioned numerous times).
Very possible. Cant prove it one way or another though. Owning a TV for years and years though does subject it to some bad behavior eventually. Lots of hockey, sports, stuff like that. Im just lucky I guess.

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post #790 of 807 Old 10-19-2018, 12:22 AM
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There is another thread here that I participated in that helped me get a replacement panel from LG due to this issue. I watch CNBC regularly as well as ESPN. I had the CNBC ticker burned into my screen.

It's truly ridiculous that they do not say this is a warranty issue when so many of today's channels use scrolling tickers or news items.

I love my tv and run the clearing program all the time in hopes it wont happen again. That said, I am in the market for a bigger one for my family room and I am thinking of avoiding this issue and buying a different technology.
Could you link me to the thread that you are referring to that helped you get an OLED replacement? Thank you so much.
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post #791 of 807 Old 06-27-2019, 09:42 AM
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I have a B6P and there is slight Burn In that's most noticeable with a solid yellow screen. The burned in logos are from a one hour daily show that I've watched for years, before I purchased this TV.

I ran Clear Panel Noise and it definitely removed some of the logos image after the first run but it's still there. I ran Clear Panel noise again several times and the Logos are still there but not as bad.

Does it matter how many times the Clear Panel Noise option is run? And after a certain point, will it make a difference?

Thanks in advance.

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post #792 of 807 Old 07-11-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post
I have a B6P and there is slight Burn In that's most noticeable with a solid yellow screen. The burned in logos are from a one hour daily show that I've watched for years, before I purchased this TV.

I ran Clear Panel Noise and it definitely removed some of the logos image after the first run but it's still there. I ran Clear Panel noise again several times and the Logos are still there but not as bad.

Does it matter how many times the Clear Panel Noise option is run? And after a certain point, will it make a difference?

Thanks in advance.
I am under the impression that Clear Panel Noise is a long compensation cycle, and it happens automatically every 2000 hours of screen use. You can trigger it manually once in a while as needed, but they say not to use it repeatedly as it may reduce your screen's life (and/or brightness, maybe). Sony recommends no more than once a year. Thus, if you've run in several times and it's not getting better, I'd stop.

That said, if the burn-in is bad enough to bother you, contact LG support (even if you are years out of warranty), and they might give you a newer panel at no cost to you. There are recent reports of LG doing this for people with B6s, E6s (you lose 3D, however), and C7s, so you could likely qualify (depending on how bad it is, perhaps, since you'll send them photos after you contact them). Good luck!
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post #793 of 807 Old 07-11-2019, 08:36 AM
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I am under the impression that Clear Panel Noise is a long compensation cycle, and it happens automatically every 2000 hours of screen use. You can trigger it manually once in a while as needed, but they say not to use it repeatedly as it may reduce your screen's life (and/or brightness, maybe). Sony recommends no more than once a year. Thus, if you've run in several times and it's not getting better, I'd stop.

That said, if the burn-in is bad enough to bother you, contact LG support (even if you are years out of warranty), and they might give you a newer panel at no cost to you. There are recent reports of LG doing this for people with B6s, E6s (you lose 3D, however), and C7s, so you could likely qualify (depending on how bad it is, perhaps, since you'll send them photos after you contact them). Good luck!
Thanks for the reply.

Based on what I've read elsewhere, LG OLED owners have had a difficult time dealing with LG customer service regarding burn in on panels that are still under warranty. Every time they call back with follow up regarding their issue, they have to give the same info provided from their previous contact-repeatedly. Sounds like dealing with LG is an absolute nightmare. I can contact them since I have nothing to lose at this point.

I purchased an extended warranty from a local chain retailer but was told burn in is not covered.

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post #794 of 807 Old 07-13-2019, 11:11 AM
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/\ A number of people here have reported great customer service and responsiveness from LG on getting burnt-in panels replaced. So there seems to be a range of experiences and there might be an explanation, but I don't know if anyone knows what explains one person's bad experience and another person's good experience.
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post #795 of 807 Old 07-13-2019, 01:42 PM
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/\ A number of people here have reported great customer service and responsiveness from LG on getting burnt-in panels replaced. So there seems to be a range of experiences and there might be an explanation, but I don't know if anyone knows what explains one person's bad experience and another person's good experience.
I think I read somewhere (another forum comment) that LG might have changed their tune recently (like starting in 2019 or something), so where they used to deny it they now work to resolve it. Complaints might have been from a year or two ago and success stories are more recent.
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post #796 of 807 Old 07-14-2019, 07:11 PM
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Sorry to be late to the conversation

I just bought a OLED8CAUA last week at Sam's Club. I was sold on it by the in-store demo. Pretty much blew everything else away. I'd recently experienced a low end JVC 65" failure after one year, so I was ready to spend more money on something nice.

All the research I did seemed to confirm that this was a quality item and worth the extra money. I never saw the threads about burn-in or dimming, however. As I use this TV mostly as a giant computer monitor, for watching videos and web browsing, as well as for watching OTA TV and occasional game console use.



The problem I'm having is the screen brightness keeps changing, getting dimmer and dimmer, especially when viewing webpages or windows with more than 60% bright background. Now, not being a slouch, I went ahead and bought the service remote and disabled the TPC under the OLED menu AND the dimming feature in System 1. I read about that on here somewhere. Then I sat back and waited for the dimming.

Initially, it seemed to have fixed it in some web browsers (Firefox). But in Internet Explorer and in some Windows Explorer windows, when you have a window open with too much white background, BOOM, back to the greying of the display. The more I read about these panels getting burn-in and having shorter lifespans due to static image content, I'm thinking--I better return this thing before the 30 days is up.



Bummer, it is such a nice TV in so many ways. But I need it to fully display the white backgrounds so I can burn my eyes out looking at static images all day. I get depressed when the lighting gets dim. Makes me think its winter time in Alaska. Anyway, the consensus seems to be "Don't buy OLED if you are going to view a lot of static content, unless you can learn to love the dim."

Any suggestions as far as a really good, bright, durable 65" TV for use as a multipurpose monitor?
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post #797 of 807 Old 07-15-2019, 08:30 AM
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Any suggestions as far as a really good, bright, durable 65" TV for use as a multipurpose monitor?

There are plenty of bright LCDs from Sony and Samsung at the higher end and from Vizio/Hisense/TCL at the mid to lower end that would work well for your purposes. I would recommend any of these over an OLED if you primarily use it as a large monitor. It is easy to find an LCD that will be brighter than an OLED and not suffer from ABL-induced dimming.
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post #798 of 807 Old 07-15-2019, 10:58 AM
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There are plenty of bright LCDs from Sony and Samsung at the higher end and from Vizio/Hisense/TCL at the mid to lower end that would work well for your purposes. I would recommend any of these over an OLED if you primarily use it as a large monitor. It is easy to find an LCD that will be brighter than an OLED and not suffer from ABL-induced dimming.

I have an 8 year old Vizio that is going strong, was used primarily for a monitor and on 24/7 for most of its life. I now spend more of my time in another room, with this new TV. Since my JVC fail, I'm more concerned with longevity and reliability. But I fell in love with the picture quality of the OLED. No question it has the clearest picture, least washed out, deepest blacks, etc. But will it hang in there over the long haul if I spend a lot of time on webpages with white backgrounds with my OLED light and contrast settings cranked up to 100 and the TPC and dimming disabled?
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post #799 of 807 Old 07-30-2019, 11:09 AM
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Thanks for the reply.

Based on what I've read elsewhere, LG OLED owners have had a difficult time dealing with LG customer service regarding burn in on panels that are still under warranty. Every time they call back with follow up regarding their issue, they have to give the same info provided from their previous contact-repeatedly. Sounds like dealing with LG is an absolute nightmare. I can contact them since I have nothing to lose at this point.
*Update*
I was in contact with LG a couple of weeks ago regarding burn in after sending them the required pics and info. Just got off the phone with Customer Service and was told they will not replace the TV since it's no longer under warranty. They knew the TV was well out of warranty (obviously) when I first contacted them and gave the impression that they might work with me but I called them today since I was wondering why I hadn't heard back from them. Well I guess I know why.

Not sure what I will do at this point. Fed up with LG and I've already sworn off Sony and their overpriced garbage after getting screwed over by the HX950 horizontal line fiasco. Running out of options at this point.

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post #800 of 807 Old 07-30-2019, 11:44 AM
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*Update*

I was in contact with LG a couple of weeks ago regarding burn in after sending them the required pics and info. Just got off the phone with Customer Service and was told they will not replace the TV since it's no longer under warranty. They knew the TV was well out of warranty (obviously) when I first contacted them and gave the impression that they might work with me but I called them today since I was wondering why I hadn't heard back from them. Well I guess I know why.



Not sure what I will do at this point. Fed up with LG and I've already sworn off Sony and their overpriced garbage after getting screwed over by the HX950 horizontal line fiasco. Running out of options at this point.
Try hitting them on Facebook and other channels

If they change their mind and decide to go ahead and fix your TV request LG employee to come out and do the work, not local shops they outsource to

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post #801 of 807 Old 07-30-2019, 12:03 PM
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I'm in the process of selling my old E6 and just wanted to post my observations having owned it three years. It has absolutely no burn in and I never ever saw any IR either. Is my panel unique? I don't know but don't think so. I'm sure it can happen but that does take a specific set of conditions.
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post #802 of 807 Old 07-30-2019, 12:57 PM
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^No, your panel is not unique. Aside from the burn in issues with my B6P, I have an EF9500, which is one year older. That display is on top of the B6P and I only use it to watch sports so, you could say I have abused that display far more than the main one. Yet I see no burn in issues on the 9500.

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post #803 of 807 Old 07-30-2019, 05:14 PM
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Try hitting them on Facebook and other channels

If they change their mind and decide to go ahead and fix your TV request LG employee to come out and do the work, not local shops they outsource to
I don't do facebook but I sent them a nasty Tweet on one of their ads on Twitter. they replied by telling me to send a DM with my info.

Long story short, they are willing to pay for repair for the service of the panel-not replacing the TV. This would mean replacing the panel which would essentially be the cost of the TV?

And they're contacting a 3rd party repair service. I asked for an LG employee and they said he was booked up for at least two weeks and the local service would do the same work anyway. I've had the same local service at my house before. Never had any work done by them but they were involved when I had other TVs (my Sony's) replaced through warranty.

So at least they're paying for the service now but this still makes no sense to me.

1) Why have have they decided to stop replacing displays all of a sudden?
2) How much $$$ is LG saving by the cost of the panel itself + labor?

I'm not crazy about having my TV sent out for repair.

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post #804 of 807 Old 07-30-2019, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post
I don't do facebook but I sent them a nasty Tweet on one of their ads on Twitter. they replied by telling me to send a DM with my info.



Long story short, they are willing to pay for repair for the service of the panel-not replacing the TV. This would mean replacing the panel which would essentially be the cost of the TV?



And they're contacting a 3rd party repair service. I asked for an LG employee and they said he was booked up for at least two weeks and the local service would do the same work anyway. I've had the same local service at my house before. Never had any work done by them but they were involved when I had other TVs (my Sony's) replaced through warranty.



So at least they're paying for the service now but this still makes no sense to me.



1) Why have have they decided to stop replacing displays all of a sudden?

2) How much $$$ is LG saving by the cost of the panel itself + labor?



I'm not crazy about having my TV sent out for repair.
Panel made by LG Display, not LG. Replacing panel may cost next nothing to LG.

Most likely tech will come to you to replace panel.

I had panel shipped to me, tech just came to install it. I wanted it this way and LG tech was ok with it. Your shop may not go for it as they are probably paying for the panel.

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Last edited by bad_oled; 07-30-2019 at 09:18 PM.
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post #805 of 807 Old 08-06-2019, 03:26 AM
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LG OLED screen burn in

LG OLED65 E6V panel (2016 build)
I recently posted a problem I had with this screen that green horizontal bands had appeared. However, yesterday I was watching a recorded programme which was interrupted by a red screen warning that the signal had been lost. Having a totally red screen allowed me to see the shadow images I get across all inputs more clearly. It was a shadow of the Sky News banner along the bottom, an OSN (satellite feed) banner top right and a faint shadow of the OSN EPG planner superimposed on that.
Looking on CNET I established that this was “burn in” and not “image retention”. However, they say that this occurs when a static image is left on the TV for a prolonged period. I NEVER do this and my watching habits are mixed inasmuch I variously watch content from 2 separate satellite feeds, from a Bluray player and from my computer.
Furthermore I have “screen shift” turned on and I have used the cleaning programme to clear noise a few times.
So the problem of “burn in” is not caused the way CNET describes and my watching habits are normal. Has anyone else experienced this? And what, if anything, can be done to rectify the issue?
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post #806 of 807 Old 08-16-2019, 04:45 PM
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The LG tech was out this morning and replaced the panel on my B6P. Haven’t had much time to use it yet but overall I’m happy it’s done and I will no longer watch the program that caused the IR/Burn In on this display.

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post #807 of 807 Old 08-16-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by no1special View Post
Had many CRT TVs over the years - no memorable burn in. Pioneer plasma, yes. OLED, yes.

So this is how I interpret LG's message about burn in that you quoted:

Any risk of burn in has been addressed by technology within the TV (apparently not). Rare for average user to cause burn in (so shouldn't be anything to worry about). Most cases have brightness at peaks levels to cause burn in (we didn't). It's possible to cause burn in if one tries hard enough (we weren't trying). Even if burn in occurs, it can be mitigated easily by watching varying content for a few hours (did that, didn't help). Screensaver feature only works when the entire image is static (doesn't help when parts of the image are static). Clean Panel Noise feature clears the pixels (I ran it a few times and didn't notice any improvement). Screen shift preserves image quality (had it on, didn't prevent our burn in).

From reading LG's marketing material, one would be led to believe that screen burn in extremely unlikely to happen, and when it does happen, it can be cleared up. I would rate most of what LG said in that statement as mostly misleading and in some cases, false.
isn't that
false advertisement, they can be sued for that... oh that's right, in the US, anything goes...
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