Warning to all current, future OLED TV Owners - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by no1special View Post
Short answer is no. But I believe higher contrast means pixels are being driven harder which means they age faster, so with static elements on dynamic images, it probably makes burn in more likely or cause it to happen faster.
More to the point, higher contrast means a greater delta in the luminance levels of bright pixels versus dim pixels, so it will slightly increase the aging differential between them.

But it's really peak 100% ouput that is most important - whether decressed by lowering OLED Light or decreased by lowering contrast, it is likely that lowering peak output increases the cumulative time needed displaying a bright static logo to develop visible burn-in.
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post #122 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
More to the point, higher contrast means a greater delta in the luminance levels of bright pixels versus dim pixels, so it will slightly increase the aging differential between them.

But it's really peak 100% ouput that is most important - whether decressed by lowering OLED Light or decreased by lowering contrast, it is likely that lowering peak output increases the cumulative time needed displaying a bright static logo to develop visible burn-in.
If that's the case, LG is going to be dealing with a lot of complaints in the next few years. Default settings for the 3 most popular picture settings have a high OLED light/contrast settings. Standard is 80/95 with dynamic contrast at medium. ISF bright room is 100/85 and ISF Dark has a default of 80/80. Most consumers will not change those settings, as most prefer a much brighter picture.

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post #123 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
If that's the case, LG is going to be dealing with a lot of complaints in the next few years. Default settings for the 3 most popular picture settings have a high OLED light/contrast settings. Standard is 80/95 with dynamic contrast at medium. ISF bright room is 100/85 and ISF Dark has a default of 80/80. Most consumers will not change those settings, as most prefer a much brighter picture.
While I agree in general, we don't yet have difinitive proof that lower OLED Light Results in reduced propensity for burn-in.

The problem is that it takes a great deal of time displaying bright static logos to cause burn-in and we don't have enough users with that viewing pattern to get any meaningful evidence.

In theory, if watching CNN for 20% of use with OLED Light at 80 can cause burn-in, it might take 40% of CNN use to see an equivilant level of burn-in wth OLED Light at 30.

The survey showed that most cases of burn-in had OLED Light at 70 or above, but we need a number of heavy CNN or CNBC watchers to go beyond that anecdotal evidence...

Safe to say that if you watch a high % of CNN or CNBC, watching with OLED Light as low as low as you can stand it can't hurt (and will probably help).

If LG was smart, they would establish a 'Cable/OTA News' mode where they could set the defaults at whatever level they felt appropriate to allow a high % of static logos to be safely displayed...
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post #124 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
If that's the case, LG is going to be dealing with a lot of complaints in the next few years. Default settings for the 3 most popular picture settings have a high OLED light/contrast settings. Standard is 80/95 with dynamic contrast at medium. ISF bright room is 100/85 and ISF Dark has a default of 80/80. Most consumers will not change those settings, as most prefer a much brighter picture.
You may be right, depending on how many 'premium' TV buyers spend all that coin to watch a hugevamountbof CNN and MSNBC, but on the other hand, LG may see that they will move past this issue by 2019 or even 2018.

They have stated they are working on top-emission which should roughly double light output for the same current. This would allow SDR aging to be cut in half or more (and double or more the % of static content viewing needed to cause visible burn-in).

Right now, it appears that WOLED may have some exposure with heavy CNN/CNBC watchers (at least those that use default settings).

By the time top-emission panels are launched, that exposure will be reduced/eliminated for SDR and it's only the miniscule % of Premium TV owners that watch a high % of CNN in HDR that LG will need to worry about .
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post #125 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by no1special View Post
Short answer is no. But I believe higher contrast means pixels are being driven harder which means they age faster, so with static elements on dynamic images, it probably makes burn in more likely or cause it to happen faster.
So what should I set limit my important settings to? In daylight, it looks awful at an OLED brightness of 50 (daytime scenes look like they're happening in the evening). :/

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post #126 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 02:51 PM
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I am reading this thread and can't believe what I am seeing.

My perspective: I still own Sony KDL-46XBR9 46" LCD TV that I purchased in 2009 for about $2,000. I also have 7.1 audio system where receiver and half of the speakers was upgraded last year.

I do follow the trends and surely these OLED TV-s look awesome. THAT BLACK LEVEL!!! But the price has been ridiculous until recently (and I was aware of burn-in as well but it was a moot point anyway because of the price).

I can't believe what people are suggesting to do in order to avoid the burn-in: don't watch channels with static logos for more than X hours/day, lower your brightness to the lowest level you can tolerate (this is the most ridiculous IMO), etc...

What you are saying you paid a lot of money for TV that has gorgeous picture quality but in order to avoid burn-in you will not be watching what you want and/or degrade the picture quality. Might as well just avoid turning it on altogether - that will surely avoid the burn-in.

I think everyone who owns it needs to "accept" (more on quotes later) the situation and not deprive yourself of true experience of using your TV for whatever you heart desires. Just admit you wanted to be on the bleeding edge of technology and this is the price to pay. Period.

Now, why did I put "accept" in quotes? Because I personally don't find this situation acceptable at all. On one hand burn-in is not new and has been around forever with CRTs (nowhere near as bad if I remember correctly) and plasma (never really owned one). On another I personally think in this day and age if technology has flaws like this maybe it is not ready for consumer market yet.

I am sure I will get flamed for this post
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post #127 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe007 View Post
I am reading this thread and can't believe what I am seeing.

My perspective: I still own Sony KDL-46XBR9 46" LCD TV that I purchased in 2009 for about $2,000. I also have 7.1 audio system where receiver and half of the speakers was upgraded last year.

I do follow the trends and surely these OLED TV-s look awesome. THAT BLACK LEVEL!!! But the price has been ridiculous until recently (and I was aware of burn-in as well but it was a moot point anyway because of the price).

I can't believe what people are suggesting to do in order to avoid the burn-in: don't watch channels with static logos for more than X hours/day, lower your brightness to the lowest level you can tolerate (this is the most ridiculous IMO), etc...

What you are saying you paid a lot of money for TV that has gorgeous picture quality but in order to avoid burn-in you will not be watching what you want and/or degrade the picture quality. Might as well just avoid turning it on altogether - that will surely avoid the burn-in.

I think everyone who owns it needs to "accept" (more on quotes later) the situation and not deprive yourself of true experience of using your TV for whatever you heart desires. Just admit you wanted to be on the bleeding edge of technology and this is the price to pay. Period.

Now, why did I put "accept" in quotes? Because I personally don't find this situation acceptable at all. On one hand burn-in is not new and has been around forever with CRTs (nowhere near as bad if I remember correctly) and plasma (never really owned one). On another I personally think in this day and age if technology has flaws like this maybe it is not ready for consumer market yet.

I am sure I will get flamed for this post
No flames, but some perspective.

The % of owners prepared to pay the price for a premium TV and then to use it to watch CNN or CNBC for 20% or more of the time the TV is in use is very small.

If you consider not being able to watch CNN or CNBC for more than that % of time "not watching what you want" then WOLED in it's current form may not befor you.

What I don't want to watch is visible letterbox bars and since we never watch much OTA TV anyways (let alone CNN/CNBC) this 'restriction' is an easy trade-off for me .
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post #128 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
...
If you consider not being able to watch CNN or CNBC for more than that % of time "not watching what you want" then WOLED in it's current form may not befor you.

What I don't want to watch is visible letterbox bars and since we never watch much OTA TV anyways (let alone CNN/CNBC) this 'restriction' is an easy trade-off for me .
It's not what ***I*** consider "not watching what you want", it is what some people in this thread want and they are entitled to watch whatever they want on any TV.

Me personally - I haven't had cable in what seems like over 15 years at least, most likely more. Don't watch any OTA either. All I watch these days is Netflix/Amazon/Vudu/YouTube and occasional Bluray
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post #129 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 03:35 PM
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It's not what ***I*** consider "not watching what you want", it is what some people in this thread want and they are entitled to watch whatever they want on any TV.

Me personally - I haven't had cable in what seems like over 15 years at least, most likely more. Don't watch any OTA either. All I watch these days is Netflix/Amazon/Vudu/YouTube and occasional Bluray
Got it - you and I are pretty much on the same page.

I didn't purchase an OLED to watch a high % of cable news - I bought one (9 actially ) to be able to watch blurays and streaming content in the dark.

So I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the owners here on AVS getting signs of burn-in from watching a large % of CNN or CNBC.

On the other hand, I recognize that this is goung to be an issue for LG to successfully break out of the videophile market and I certainly have sympathy for tjose users feelibg they were not adequately warned by LG about this issue...
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post #130 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 03:46 PM
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We have two Panasonic plasmas that I bought in 2008. When I first got them I ripped "burn in" DVDs from this forum that cycled the 3 primaries and 3 secondaries with 10% incremental increases in saturation. I left the TVs on overnight with that disk on repeat for the first week. In turn we have never experienced burn in. IR yes, especially when my wife fell asleep with one of the cable news networks on. The same station was on for 8hrs straight. The IR only lasted about 5 minutes after I changed the channel to a station without any static images. I attribute the initial success (maybe the first year or two) of no IR/BI to using that disk in the beginning and the rest to the age of the displays. I also calibrated both displays properly so that may have helped. More importantly, might OLED displays benefit from using those burn in disks either in the beginning like I did or to get rid of potential BI?

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post #131 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
If that's the case, LG is going to be dealing with a lot of complaints in the next few years. Default settings for the 3 most popular picture settings have a high OLED light/contrast settings. Standard is 80/95 with dynamic contrast at medium. ISF bright room is 100/85 and ISF Dark has a default of 80/80. Most consumers will not change those settings, as most prefer a much brighter picture.
I believe currently in ISF Dark, the defaults are 80 for OLED Light and 85 for Contrast.

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So what should I set limit my important settings to? In daylight, it looks awful at an OLED brightness of 50 (daytime scenes look like they're happening in the evening). :/
If you're not watching stuff with static logos or graphics, then you have don't have to worry about burn in, and can set the TV any way you want. Now, if you're watching cable news channels, or anything with static logos/graphics, especially consisting of yellow/orange/red colors, then for that programming, it may help to reduce your OLED light and contrast settings or use the built in all-direction zoom to push those static elements off the screen. We can't tell you exactly what your settings should be in order to prevent burn in, because no one really knows (maybe LG does but they haven't said). Reducing OLED Light and Contrast may help prevent it or at least take longer for it to develop, but no one knows if there are any truly "safe" settings.
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post #132 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 03:58 PM
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There is an easy fix for this problem. https://www.removelogo.com/remove-logo-from-video/

TV manufacturers need to incorporate a static image detector that can learn what the logos look like. Then they can replace the logos with interpolated information from the surrounding information in the same way they remove jaggies from interlaced frames displayed in progressive format. If there is not enough information they can just gray out the logo with an average level that matches the average level surrounding it.

This would not only reduce the risk of burn-in, it would also make lots of people happy who are sick of staring at logos and banners.

If any pixels are at risk from the historical data that has been sent to them, the TV can also notify the user that there is a problem by painting an outline around the pixels that are at risk, or flashing them all black and white. This could inform the user of a burn-in risk before it happens. Instead they just boost the output from the damaged pixels so it is less noticeable.

Or we can just wait for LEDs to improve too.

I am wondering if the LED backlight of an LCD is also vulnerable. My guess is yes, but probably less noticeable.
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post #133 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by krholmberg View Post
We have two Panasonic plasmas that I bought in 2008. When I first got them I ripped "burn in" DVDs from this forum that cycled the 3 primaries and 3 secondaries with 10% incremental increases in saturation overnight for the first week. In turn we havs never experienced burn in. IR yes, especially when my wife fell asleep with one of the cable news networks on. The same station was on for 8hrs straight. The IR only lasted about 5 minutes after I changed the channel to a station without any static images. I attribute the initial success (maybe the first year) of no IR/BI to using that disk and the rest to the age of the displays. Might OLED displays benefit from those burn in disks?

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This is a very good question. I hope some knowledgeable AVSers can provide an answer.
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post #134 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
No flames, but some perspective.

The % of owners prepared to pay the price for a premium TV and then to use it to watch CNN or CNBC for 20% or more of the time the TV is in use is very small.

If you consider not being able to watch CNN or CNBC for more than that % of time "not watching what you want" then WOLED in it's current form may not befor you.

What I don't want to watch is visible letterbox bars and since we never watch much OTA TV anyways (let alone CNN/CNBC) this 'restriction' is an easy trade-off for me .
Maybe during election cycles or with OJ Simpson like occurrences there should be a warning that pops up on the screen if you are on a news channel that says "Warning, turn off your TV to avoid burn in, you probably won't like the results anyway"
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post #135 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post
There is an easy fix for this problem. https://www.removelogo.com/remove-logo-from-video/

TV manufacturers need to incorporate a static image detector that can learn what the logos look like. Then they can replace the logos with interpolated information from the surrounding information in the same way they remove jaggies from interlaced frames displayed in progressive format. If there is not enough information they can just gray out the logo with an average level that matches the average level surrounding it.

This would not only reduce the risk of burn-in, it would also make lots of people happy who are sick of staring at logos and banners.

If any pixels are at risk from the historical data that has been sent to them, the TV can also notify the user that there is a problem by painting an outline around the pixels that are at risk, or flashing them all black and white. This could inform the user of a burn-in risk before it happens. Instead they just boost the output from the damaged pixels so it is less noticeable.

Or we can just wait for LEDs to improve too.

I am wondering if the LED backlight of an LCD is also vulnerable. My guess is yes, but probably less noticeable.
While good ideas, I think they're a bit too complicated for average consumers. Average consumers need a automatic, passive solution.

Some have said that these TVs already have a feature that locally dims only static elements of the picture once they've been on screen for a specified time. Some say only models prior to 2016 have this feature. I've not seen the MSNBC logo dim at all on our set. I've been told the effect is subtle. Maybe all they need to do is make it dim more aggressively and problem solved. Static elements should be analyzed and their pixels dimmed proportionately using an algorithm to determine how fast they're aging relative to the dynamic content being displayed. It should be a defeatable feature in settings with a warning to users that if they turn it off, it may lead to burn in, in which case LG will not be held liable. I'd like to think this is all possible with software and a firmware update.
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post #136 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 04:26 PM
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Or do what Vizio did ,Remove the TV tunner and advertise the Oled as The ultime Home Theater Experience.


Honestly I've been watching cable with logos and I haven't expirience burn in yet.
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post #137 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Got it - you and I are pretty much on the same page.

I didn't purchase an OLED to watch a high % of cable news - I bought one (9 actially ) to be able to watch blurays and streaming content in the dark.

So I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the owners here on AVS getting signs of burn-in from watching a large % of CNN or CNBC.
Don't forget gaming. I'd say besides blurays and streaming that's another category these TVs excel at. And sadly alot of games have bright red or yellow hud elements. I do some gaming on mine but I would be really afraid to play something like breath of the wild which can easily take 100+ hours and has red hearts displayed most of the time.
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post #138 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 05:31 PM
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Don't forget gaming. I'd say besides blurays and streaming that's another category these TVs excel at. And sadly alot of games have bright red or yellow hud elements. I do some gaming on mine but I would be really afraid to play something like breath of the wild which can easily take 100+ hours and has red hearts displayed most of the time.
The reports of burn-in from games have been few. We've been gaming about 50% of the time recently (Horizon Zero Dawn) and these threads got me concerned, but no signs of burn-in yet.

I believe the primary reason is that cunulative hours spent on any specific game is quite a bit less than it dan be with a channel like CNN or CNBC. Also game makers may be more sensitive to the impact of static elements on dispkays than cable news channels are - the static elemets of HZD tend to be less than fully saturated, and with that, the white subpixel will significantly reduce the intensity of the colored subpixels.

But mist importantly, new games cone out, we get bored and move on.

If an OLED has 2000 hours on it with over 20% of that use on a specific game, that translates to over 400 hours playing the exact same game.

Not sayibg it's impossible, just saying 20%+ use month after month after mobth of the exact same game seems to be less lkely than 20%+ use of your favorite news channel mobth after month after month (and even year after year ).
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post #139 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post
There is an easy fix for this problem. https://www.removelogo.com/remove-logo-from-video/

TV manufacturers need to incorporate a static image detector that can learn what the logos look like. Then they can replace the logos with interpolated information from the surrounding information in the same way they remove jaggies from interlaced frames displayed in progressive format. If there is not enough information they can just gray out the logo with an average level that matches the average level surrounding it.

This would not only reduce the risk of burn-in, it would also make lots of people happy who are sick of staring at logos and banners.
This is an interesting idea - I sure hope LG is monitoring this thread .

Removing the logo would help, but so would reducing the logos saturation or brightness or even shifting the spectrum slowly from whatever 'source' color to grey or white or even through the full rainbow of colors. The key is to be able to analyze the video quickly enough to detect static elements and 'share the load' before aging has been to greatly accelerated.

Quote:
If any pixels are at risk from the historical data that has been sent to them, the TV can also notify the user that there is a problem by painting an outline around the pixels that are at risk, or flashing them all black and white. This could inform the user of a burn-in risk before it happens. Instead they just boost the output from the damaged pixels so it is less noticeable.
Unlikely the TV has the comoutational and memory resources to track all pixel history. But tracking a few static elements that have been displayed for more than 5% or 10% of the TVs use could be possible (to then offer alternatives before burn-in develops).

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Or we can just wait for LEDs to improve too.

I am wondering if the LED backlight of an LCD is also vulnerable. My guess is yes, but probably less noticeable.
Interestingly, without local dimming, there is no uneven ware possible with the backlight of an LED/LCD, but once local dimming gets involved, the LEDs of zones always lit brightly (such as behind the CNN logo) can age more quickly than the LEDs of zones rarely lit up (such as behibd letterbox bars). Since the numbers of LEDs are so small though (compared to the number of pixels), this uneven ware should be relatively easy to track and compensate...
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post #140 of 807 Old 08-05-2017, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I could be wrong, but I think with many video games, the static elements may be dimmer relative to cable news channel logos and graphics. Just a guess.

Regarding LED backlit LCDs, some kind of uneven wear must be possible, because the white CNBC stock ticker "burned in" on our Vizio. It wasn't a defined image. Just the area that the white stock ticker occupied became noticeably dimmer than the rest of the screen, almost like a dirty screen effect. It cleared up completely after several months of not watching CNBC and watching dynamic content only. The Vizio has local dimming, but it's always been turned off.
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post #141 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 01:05 AM
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Personally, I'm not worried about BI. I literally use my OLED only when watching Blu-Rays and UHD Blus. I rid myself of cable over a year ago, and while I do have an OTA HDTV antenna (connected to a Tablo PVR) I tend to use it mostly to watch TV on my second computer monitor, or one of my other two TVs (both LCDs) that have Rokus with the Tablo app. And of the 2 or 3 hours of broadcast TV I might watch a week, 0% of it is mainstream media news outlets. I rid myself of those even longer ago than cable, and very much recommend it.

I don't even bother watching Netflix or Amazon Prime on the OLED; it's only for discs.
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post #142 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 01:51 AM
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Getting rid of MSM "news" helps in so many ways. The only hope they have of getting any of us to come back is by shutting down the Internet (or censoring the [email protected]#% out of it). I might be using my OLED for sports viewing soonish. It didn't negatively affect my G6 last year.
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post #143 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 03:06 AM
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We owned a Pioneer Plasma for 7 years and it got burn in of station logos with normal use. Now, we have the OLED and it has done the same, even though LG's website said that they're technology virtually guaranteed that burn in would not occur with normal use.
I've had a 48" Pioneer Plasma since 2011 (a little over 6 years now) in my living room (I have an LCD projector in my home theater room) and it doesn't have any noticeable burn in. I watch cable and Netflix/Kodi/Amazon Prime on it (if anything, I'd think Kodi's main screen would be burned in since I go back to that more than anything else in-between features. I do have a screensaver set and the slow rotation set on the Panasonic settings and didn't watch any letterboxed material, etc. the first month of use. I've seen images stick around for awhile after something has been on the screen for a long time, but it goes away after other material is shown for a few minutes.
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post #144 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Getting rid of MSM "news" helps in so many ways. The only hope they have of getting any us to come back is by shutting down the Internet (or censoring the [email protected]#% out of it). I might be using my OLED for sports viewing soonish. It didn't negatively affect my G6 last year.
Yeah, I dunno about this burn in thing. We watched the entire NHL playoffs last year using OTA and streaming from my iPad. Both had instances of fixed logos and all that. Watched using my expert bright room settings during the day and then my Cinema settings for TV at night. Neither settings are dim or have the OLED light very low. Zero issues. None. Overall, we don't watch much TV news other than local but that's only a half hour a day or so. Maybe my use case doesn't pertain to this issue then? We watch tons of movies and stream quite a bit too.

The only precautions I take are to let the TV run in full screen mode after we watch an anamorphic movie with bars. That's really it. I let it run it's comp cycles when it wants to.

Who knows.....?

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post #145 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 07:05 AM
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I posted this yesterday in the LG C6 owners thread, but, I think it is good to post it here as well:
Hi All,

I had my appointment today for the Best Buy (GSP warranty) Geek Squad Protection Plan LG OLED 55 C6 panel replacement. I originally bought 3 OLEDs over the past 6 weeks- all with the 5 year GSP warranties.. I returned 2 of them because those had the least amount of burn in, and one member here on this thread reminded me it is never wise to "stock up" on tvs when you find a good deal since technology changes so fast...

Also, At the store, they said, "if you buy a GSP plan, they cover burn in and the LG manufacturer warranty does not cover burn in"... So, I bought three OLEDs and three GSP plans over the last month and a half at 3 different local stores...

Long story short. The one OLED I did keep started having a noticeable burn in issue, and the appointment was today to get the new panel. The repair guy looked at the oled display, did the red screen test on youtube, and said there is a "faint LG logo" showing, which means it is a PRE-EXISTING condition. There is nothing in the GSP plan that says anything about "pre-existing conditions" not being covered!! Even the store sales guy said "all burn in" is covered, just wait a month or 2 to call it in...

The repair guy said the sale price is $1999 for the 55oledc6p I have. They actually no longer carry it on line or in store. He said I "got it half price" because of pre-existing condition of LG logo burn in, and the sales guy lied to me and said that it is covered to make a sale and make a sale on the GSP Plan. The repair guy did say that "ESPN" logo burn in IS covered. "LG" logo is not covered because that means it is a display unit at the store and I am accepting it "as is" with the greatly reduced price of 1k.

I was furious that I was lied to, so I am returning the unit. They are coming to pick it up on Tuesday morning. (return delivery - full refund for tv $1009 and GSP plan $249)

So, I just wanted to share if anyone does have a GSP plan and they bought an open box tv (or display tv), they will not cover the new panel if the "LG" logo is showing on the red screen test on youtube!!!

I learned this the hard way, but, no money lost. I am sad to go from 3 OLEDs to ZERO OLEDS now...

Spoiler!
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post #146 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe007 View Post
I am reading this thread and can't believe what I am seeing.

My perspective: I still own Sony KDL-46XBR9 46" LCD TV that I purchased in 2009 for about $2,000. I also have 7.1 audio system where receiver and half of the speakers was upgraded last year.

I do follow the trends and surely these OLED TV-s look awesome. THAT BLACK LEVEL!!! But the price has been ridiculous until recently (and I was aware of burn-in as well but it was a moot point anyway because of the price).

I can't believe what people are suggesting to do in order to avoid the burn-in: don't watch channels with static logos for more than X hours/day, lower your brightness to the lowest level you can tolerate (this is the most ridiculous IMO), etc...

What you are saying you paid a lot of money for TV that has gorgeous picture quality but in order to avoid burn-in you will not be watching what you want and/or degrade the picture quality. Might as well just avoid turning it on altogether - that will surely avoid the burn-in.

I think everyone who owns it needs to "accept" (more on quotes later) the situation and not deprive yourself of true experience of using your TV for whatever you heart desires. Just admit you wanted to be on the bleeding edge of technology and this is the price to pay. Period.

Now, why did I put "accept" in quotes? Because I personally don't find this situation acceptable at all. On one hand burn-in is not new and has been around forever with CRTs (nowhere near as bad if I remember correctly) and plasma (never really owned one). On another I personally think in this day and age if technology has flaws like this maybe it is not ready for consumer market yet.

I am sure I will get flamed for this post
No flaming here, we try not to do that! I will say though that you do make some good points and one could argue that it is silly to have to follow certain procedures to avoid burn in. This is like plasma all over again and I owned plenty of those! And, just like plasma the issue is pretty overblown and simply will NOT effect most users. It is true that some users and use cases don't jive well with OLED and it's better to buy an LCD based TV. That's fine and I've recommended to people that I know that they should just stick with LCD due to their use cases. Heavy gamers, 24/7 news channel watchers and some other edge use cases should NOT buy an OLED. That's my opinion. For most others? You can't get better overall performance right now so go for it and savor the PQ.

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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
No flames, but some perspective.

The % of owners prepared to pay the price for a premium TV and then to use it to watch CNN or CNBC for 20% or more of the time the TV is in use is very small.

If you consider not being able to watch CNN or CNBC for more than that % of time "not watching what you want" then WOLED in it's current form may not befor you.

What I don't want to watch is visible letterbox bars and since we never watch much OTA TV anyways (let alone CNN/CNBC) this 'restriction' is an easy trade-off for me .
Well said and I agree. What's funny to me is how many people are wasting precious moments of their life watching right/left wing propaganda news networks. Sorry, I had to....
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post #147 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 09:04 AM
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Having owned many plasmas in the past my biggest concern is the wife and kids who abuse TVs with static images all the time. I have a Samsung AMOLED tablet which my son used and created some nasty burn in. If I were the only one using the TV I wouldn't be so concerned but it's the other people in my house that worry me. And yes I have told them the proper way to care for TVs but that gets forgotten quickly.
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post #148 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 11:07 AM
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Reading all of these burn in stories that seemed to pop up almost out of nowhere is quite upsetting.

I dealt with IR/burn-in problems on my Panasonic VT60 to the point where it really ruined my ability to enjoy the set. I could watch movies, but any gaming, cable, or practically anything that had a logo was simply just asking for trouble. It was just flat out ridiculous.

What's interesting is that, everyone was saying that the floor OLED models all seem to have burn in, which one would assume would be a testament to how bad of a problem this could potentially be. But people said it was because they weren't shutting down the TVs properly, meaning that they would never run compensation cycles. But was this even verified as the reason, or was this just people making assumptions?

I don't know, but this isn't a good sign. No one wants to "baby" their TVs in 2017 - and no one certainly wants to pay top dollar for a TV and have to closely monitor the amount of time they watch certain types of content to avoid damaging the set. That's just not logical. And if OLED truly wants to appeal to mainstream consumers, then they're going to have to figure out a way to fix this issue.

Plasma manufacturers were always able to get around burn in problems by slapping a disclaimer in their warranty and being able to write-off any burn-in as a sign of "abuse." That way, they never had to take responsibility. And despite all the review websites claiming to not be worried about it, I remember plenty of VT/ZT/ST owners during the last year of Panasonic plasmas being furious about their sets developing permanent burn-in - me being one of them.

So break-in slides, mixing up content, no gaming, no static logos for long periods of time, no black bars for extended periods of time etc etc.

Some things never change, I guess.
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post #149 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
No flames, but some perspective.

The % of owners prepared to pay the price for a premium TV and then to use it to watch CNN or CNBC for 20% or more of the time the TV is in use is very small.

If you consider not being able to watch CNN or CNBC for more than that % of time "not watching what you want" then WOLED in it's current form may not befor you.

What I don't want to watch is visible letterbox bars and since we never watch much OTA TV anyways (let alone CNN/CNBC) this 'restriction' is an easy trade-off for me .

IMHO, your analysis is totally off. It is the equivalent of asking "How many people would use a Porsche to drive it on highways with a speed limit of 75 or less, or to the grocery store for that matter, for 20% of the time?" The honest answer, in both cases, is "Anyone who can afford it".

TV's, even OLEDs, are disposable electronics that quickly become technologically outdated and, at least in my view, are not viewed by most who purchase them as family heirlooms to be preserved and passed onto the next generation. Accordingly, in the "real" world, they are used to view many different types of content without regard to whether the content has a static logo, or not. For most people who can afford an OLED, they sure aren't interested in sacrificing content over reliability. Rather, a premium TV should must have both picture quality and reliability unless it wants to be restricted to a very narrow market.

Last edited by John1948; 08-06-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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post #150 of 807 Old 08-06-2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post

I am wondering if the LED backlight of an LCD is also vulnerable. My guess is yes, but probably less noticeable.
Yes, anything that displays an image can get burn in. It's just that some technologies are more sensitive than others. I've seen Burn in on CRT, LCD, and LED-LCD...heck I've even seen burn in on the new Samsung Q9.

The trick is thinking of a TV like a high end speaker, it has a break in period. You don't take your brand new speakers home and start rocking them out full blast, so treat the TV the same, try not leaving any static image for long periods of time to start with, work them in gradually. That's why you aren't even supposed to calibrate your TV right away.

In the first 30 days try watching a lot of things, wide screen, full screen, cartoons, sports, video games, watch a little bit of everything on either a standard, cinema or ISF mode watch for around 4-5 hours a day max. After the 30 days run the pixel refresh on it and you should be good to go, haven't had a problem with any of them.
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